mancan92
Full Member
Wait what happened yesterday that warrented any intervention from VAR?
Those ones are tough. He was impeded and I don't think he could've stayed on his feet, either getting clattered or jumping out the way. Both warrant a foul I think. I'd have to see it again to confirm he couldn't stay on his feet though.Pogba’s pen was questionable too. Just looked like he vaulted over Coady’s leg to me.
Maybe, but its current form it ruins the games.Love how people making it out that current VAR system is final, how it cant/wont be improved. So fecking dumb.
There is nothing interesting about a big mistake changing the outcome of a game.Maybe, but its current form it ruins the games.
Please take this VAR experiment somewhere else. When (or if) they find the perfect solution, it can be implemented. But the fact is that football has been played for quite some time without VAR and it has worked out fine (with the exception of some dubious referee calls, but those are also a part of the game and what makes it interesting).
Teams winning due to incorrect goals ruins the game more.Maybe, but its current form it ruins the games.
With this kind of thinking no benefitial changes would ever be made in this world and we'd still be stuck in the stone age.When (or if) they find the perfect solution, it can be implemented. .
The sport worked fine without the backpass rule for 130 years.That’s how the sport’s worked for over 150 years without much issue. Odd that you can’t comprehend how people find the change annoying.
Ah yes the classic Stone Age argument. Technology is good in many areas of life. Not good in football- too hard to grasp?Teams winning due to incorrect goals ruins the game more.
With this kind of thinking no benefitial changes would ever be made in this world and we'd still be stuck in the stone age.
The sport worked fine without the backpass rule for 130 years.
Big mistakes are still changing the outcomes of games only now we have to sit through even more tedious shite to get to the point.There is nothing interesting about a big mistake changing the outcome of a game.
I keep seeing this suggested as an alternative but it would obviously be terrible. Three challenges is a hell of a lot (every goal would still probably be reviewed as the average number of goals in a football match is very low). You'd also get tactical challenges ruining the flow of the game even further. VAR is already far too intrusive but is still not stopping the game fourteen or fifteen times for minutes at this point. Most VAR reviews are taking place during play with no interference. With a challenge system (where I assume teams would keep their challenges if proven to be correct) the game would become unwatchable.I still think VAR should be similar to tennis challenges, like each team had three calls per half. If the call is correct, they remain the three challenges, otherwise they would loose a challenge.
This way the clubs would had the expense of employing people to analyze the match in real time, and the VAR would only have to confirm the appeal.
This seems a good idea, until we consider what happens in the Martial situation last night. There is then an appeal, Martial was onside, and... what?I still think VAR should be similar to tennis challenges, like each team had three calls per half. If the call is correct, they remain the three challenges, otherwise they would loose a challenge.
This way the clubs would had the expense of employing people to analyze the match in real time, and the VAR would only have to confirm the appeal.
Yeah I don't get this idea either, it sounds horrible. Clubs should be kept as far away from the officiating part of the game as possible. The comparison with tennis challenges is silly as well, as any call following a challenge in tennis is black and white and doesn't involve the human decision making process you'd get in football.I keep seeing this suggested as an alternative but it would obviously be terrible. Three challenges is a hell of a lot (every goal would still probably be reviewed as the average number of goals in a football match is very low). You'd also get tactical challenges ruining the flow of the game even further. VAR is already far too intrusive but is still not stopping the game seven or eight times for minutes at this point. Most VAR reviews are taking place during play with no interference. With a challenge system (where I assume teams would keep their challenges if proven to be correct) the game would become unwatchable.
About the VAR: it could also be solved by a even better technology, by implementing a AI / Machine Learning system that learns how to detect infractions. This is not sci-fi anymore, there are far more complex implementations of AI / Machine Learning nowadays (one just needs to google to check), and to implement a system that will be analyzing a controlled environment like a football field, makes things easier.I keep seeing this suggested as an alternative but it would obviously be terrible. Three challenges is a hell of a lot (every goal would still probably be reviewed as the average number of goals in a football match is very low). You'd also get tactical challenges ruining the flow of the game even further. VAR is already far too intrusive but is still not stopping the game seven or eight times for minutes at this point. Most VAR reviews are taking place during play with no interference. With a challenge system (where I assume teams would keep their challenges if proven to be correct) the game would become unwatchable.
My point still stands, if one is against VAR then fair enough. You do you but when it gets to point of justifying the preference of offside goals, handball leading to goals etc etc I don't get it anymore.Big mistakes are still changing the outcomes of games only now we have to sit through even more tedious shite to get to the point.
That's a great suggestion. (So much so that I used my last post to say it.)I still think VAR should be similar to tennis challenges, like each team had three calls per half. If the call is correct, they remain the three challenges, otherwise they would loose a challenge.
This way the clubs would had the expense of employing people to analyze the match in real time, and the VAR would only have to confirm the appeal.
They could use a video analyzing system that would calculate the line in real time. This is actually pretty easy to do with the technology available (in fact, the technology to do this is available since many years)Regarding offside situations and the hilarious MS paint line drawing to determine whether a part of a player is off, I wonder why they don't do it like they do it in tennis or how the goal line technology works in football? Just set up cameras all over the pitch, at ground level like every meter or so, then do the same and put cameras on the roof of the stadiums(or at the top end of the stands in case the stadiums don't have roofs) and get a perfect picture of the whole pitch. Surely it would be easier to determine an offside this way instead of having cameras placed in wrong angles and the blokes in the VAR room having to play stick man drawing with paint.
Accidentally... Clearly biased, it looks intentional. Look at the way he lifted his studs. This is a textbook foul, we learn how to do these kind of fouls since youth football. It stops the play immediatly and as it is made in the natural movement the ref cannot judge how serious the challenge was. We were encouraged to do things like this and worst: little annoying things in set pieces, like sticking fingers on the other's guy ass, etc.Wolves player went down on the halfway line at some point and they continued to attack, on replay James stood on his foot. To me it was very similar to these two reds, maybe James was a bit more on top of the boot and these were more on the ankle:
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I just found it interesting that they didn't even refer it, to me just shows how different the rules are in different leagues.
I am not in position to take it anyway, if i was, would introduced idea of it way earlier. If it worked fine without VAR, nobody would be for it. There is nothing interesting being fecked by incompetent and more and more arrogant pricks of referees, who are absolutely untouchable.Maybe, but its current form it ruins the games.
Please take this VAR experiment somewhere else. When (or if) they find the perfect solution, it can be implemented. But the fact is that football has been played for quite some time without VAR and it has worked out fine (with the exception of some dubious referee calls, but those are also a part of the game and what makes it interesting).
System isnt worse, thats such a nonsense thing to say.Considering how VAR now is worse and more intrusive than it was a year ago, I can easily see any further “improvements” being anything but.
I am not even gonna waste my time with you.So fcking dumb that you think it can be improved. It’s been around for a while for starters & all it is is some other guy looking at a replay- you can’t quicken up or improve that
Well good job as you can’t come back with any valid argument to the fact that this great technology of VAR is some other guy looking at a replay. Cannot get quickerI am not even gonna waste my time with you.
Can't find any video of the James one, seems to have been expunged from any highlights... to me it looked similar to the two videos I posted though seeing it replayed on TV during the game. Don't think you can get a second yellow from VAR. Surprised though VAR didn't call Moss to go to the monitor to check it at least. Not sure if that is a thing with the EPL use of VAR though or not?Any footage from our game? If it was anything like the Modric one, I'd be very surprised if I somehow missed it completely and haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.
Edit: found some mention of the indicent now, must've missed the first couple of minutes of the second half. Seems like it could've been a second yellow.
Guess the ref's are on it now though, and it's going to be a red, and no escape as VAR always watching. Guess we'll see quite a few red cards in La Liga this season!Accidentally... Clearly biased, it looks intentional. Look at the way he lifted his studs. This is a textbook foul, we learn how to do these kind of fouls since youth football. It stops the play immediatly and as it is made in the natural movement the ref cannot judge how serious the challenge was. We were encouraged to do things like this and worst: little annoying things in set pieces, like sticking fingers on the other's guy ass, etc.
Good old days?
Yea thats it, you nailed it, now move along.Well good job as you can’t come back with any valid argument to the fact that this great technology of VAR is some other guy looking at a replay. Cannot get quicker
There's always been different rules for attackers & defenders - or at least through the interpretation of the rules.Now it's a farce with different rules for defenders / attackers.
And gives us 6 stoppages per half, . 4 of which are purely tactical.I still think VAR should be similar to tennis challenges, like each team had three calls per half. If the call is correct, they remain the three challenges, otherwise they would loose a challenge.
This way the clubs would had the expense of employing people to analyze the match in real time, and the VAR would only have to confirm the appeal.
As proven. You missed out the facts I said after that haha- those in favour of it are so precious about having the truth told about it. WeirdYea thats it, you nailed it, now move along.
Completely different.Wolves player went down on the halfway line at some point and they continued to attack, on replay James stood on his foot. To me it was very similar to these two reds, maybe James was a bit more on top of the boot and these were more on the ankle:
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I just found it interesting that they didn't even refer it, to me just shows how different the rules are in different leagues.
That sounds like La Liga messed up those calls then. A straight red card is supposed to be for serious foul play or endangering an opponent.Ball was played backwards so can't be offside.
This happened in the Chelsea game as well, Maddison was flagged offside and then the incident was just never shown again, so impossible to say if he was actually offside or not. Very odd decision by the broadcasters to just disappear the incident.
Agree on the handball rule, IFAB have messed up biggly. The original way handball was done was that it had to be intentional, then the referees got guidelines so players couldn't just make themselves bigger using their arms and claim non intentional handball. Now it's a farce with different rules for defenders / attackers.
What I found interesting from game last night was James boot in foul. In La Liga this weekend Modric & Molina both made very similar challenge to that, it went to VAR, ref looked on the monitor, and they both got sent off straight red.
I've spoken to a number of City fans since the game, and they've all echoed Gary Neville's "clear and obvious" comment regarding the earlier non-penalty when Michael Oliver chose to ignore the VAR alert that Rodri had been fouled inside the area.Goals will always be checked, clear and obvious is not a requirement for checking when a goal is scored. The moment a goal is scored it will be checked and if something which is against the rules happened which made the goal possible (like the handball from the City player) the goal will be ruled out. The clear and obvious thing that keeps being mentioned does not apply when it comes to goals. Goals are usually rare in football so they are too important to not be 100% fairly scored.
It sucks that your match going experience has degraded because of the VAR. However i am sure Spurs fans wouldnt like it if they lost the title because a goal which involved a hand ball and therefore against the rules decided the title race.
These “offsides” and “handballs” have only been considered such for about 6 months. Blatantly obvious wrong decisions like those are not exactly comparable to the two goals City have had disallowed recently. If you went back far enough you’d surely find multiple important United goals that wouldn’t have stood if subject to VAR in its current iteration.My point still stands, if one is against VAR then fair enough. You do you but when it gets to point of justifying the preference of offside goals, handball leading to goals etc etc I don't get it anymore.
United lost the chance to win some titles (Porto CL, Drogba offside goal) because of huge mistakes. Thinking about it pisses me off
Personally I thought they were pretty harsh reds, at least consistent though between games though.Completely different.
James was facing the opponent and the ball was there to be won, he also slips forwards and catches him with a stud, but it wasn't malicious or dangerous.
Those 2 red cards the players are fouling from behind, and clearly standing on the opponents heel in the INTENT to stop/injure them. Small but very clear differences.
Or you could just let the bloke in the middle get on with his job and give the fourth official the option to have a word with him if he sees something blatantly wrong on the monitor like a hand of god or Zidane nutting someone in the ribs.About the VAR: it could also be solved by a even better technology, by implementing a AI / Machine Learning system that learns how to detect infractions. This is not sci-fi anymore, there are far more complex implementations of AI / Machine Learning nowadays (one just needs to google to check), and to implement a system that will be analyzing a controlled environment like a football field, makes things easier.
You could actually achieve this in months if you had the budget for it.
IMHO this would be the way to go, and using human refs to analyze video should be a quick fix while we don't have automated systems that don't ruin the flow of the game. We would still need a ref to analyze complex cases and give the output into the system, so the machine can learn how to solve those kind of problems next time.
VAR wasn’t this bad at the 2018 World Cup. It’s become more pedantic and ludicrous since it came into the CL this year.System isnt worse, thats such a nonsense thing to say.
I think the memory of the World Cup has faded. The whole tournament was VAR penalty after VAR penalty.VAR wasn’t this bad at the 2018 World Cup. It’s become more pedantic and ludicrous since it came into the CL this year.
Yellows cant be reviewed, only straight reds. Clearly wasn't anywhere near a red.Personally I thought they were pretty harsh reds, at least consistent though between games though.
Was surprised when ref had a look on monitor then got red out. Both given yellow originally iirc.
Would be good to see the James one again. Just remember watching and thinking it would surely be reviewed at least on monitor by Moss.
Which isn't happening. They are spending more time playing football imo. Which is a plus.I think the memory of the World Cup has faded. The whole tournament was VAR penalty after VAR penalty.
The penalties haven’t actually been the issue with VAR though. At the World Cup they were clamping down holding in the area which seems to have gone out of the window in the PL. Laughable that people are defending this shitshow by saying it’s making things fairer when accidental “handballs” are now being penalised but actual deliberate cheating is just ignored.I think the memory of the World Cup has faded. The whole tournament was VAR penalty after VAR penalty.