Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

VAR - Love or Hate?


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MikeKing

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Wow, just wow. Could we just play football, you know like we have for thousands of years!?

I’m not having a dig at you personally mate, just can’t believe people would be willing to spoil the enjoyment of the game any further than it already has been.

Football... the not so beautiful game.

I want VAR reversed even more than Brexit
1. Yes, That's what I want to see. A fair game where the ref no longer is in the center of attention every other week. We're talking about the top level here, this is supposed to be the pinnacle of football we're watching. Stakes are higher and refereeing should be way different to a local team that can archive the purpose with an old ground keeper hanging about. The game is evolving , it's getting quicker and better and you might want to ask why the refs in this country aren't athletes themselves. I'm sure being a ref is hard, and if you can't keep up physically it impacts the game tremendously. The standards of refereeing has dropped since the game has gotten quicker, it hurts the game.

2. No, that's fine. I'm interested in your opinion. What about my proposition would spoil any enjoyment from the game?

3. You want it reversed? Are you against the technology aspect of it specifically or do you not like the concept of giving help to refs?
 

sullydnl

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the offside rule with this iteration of VAR is ridiculous. I knew that Sterling goal was onside and after seeing a still of the decision I still think it is. They seem to have put the line right through the middle of Sterling's upper back which of course he can score with.

The whole point of the offside rule is so that players don't get a head start/positional advantage on the defender. Now they have the technology offside should go purely off the furthest forward part of the feet seeing as though it is the feet that gain the positional advantage. If someone like peter crouch wants lean forward to head a goal he shouldn't be penalised as he is using his physical size to his advantage which he pays for in things like a decrease in speed and mobility, he is being punished twice.


I've seen three goals ruled off side already due to a person in van deciding where on where to draw the VAR line because he is guessing where the legal part of the body to play the ball should end.
The linesman had deemed it offside anyway. So you got the exact same outcome you would have got pre-VAR. You're also misreading the image they posted but that's by the by.

Though there are plenty of changes that could be made to the offside rule if people really object to marginal offside calls.
 

RUCK4444

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1. Yes, That's what I want to see. A fair game where the ref no longer is in the center of attention every other week. We're talking about the top level here, this is supposed to be the pinnacle of football we're watching. Stakes are higher and refereeing should be way different to a local team that can archive the purpose with an old ground keeper hanging about. The game is evolving , it's getting quicker and better and you might want to ask why the refs in this country aren't athletes themselves. I'm sure being a ref is hard, and if you can't keep up physically it impacts the game tremendously. The standards of refereeing has dropped since the game has gotten quicker, it hurts the game.

2. No, that's fine. I'm interested in your opinion. What about my proposition would spoil any enjoyment from the game?

3. You want it reversed? Are you against the technology aspect of it specifically or do you not like the concept of giving help to refs?
I believe the game was not broken to begin with, there was no overwhelming outcry week after week at poor decisions that warranted such a huge defacing of the game we love watching.

I am not against technology however it doesn’t particularly fit well with football specifically.

Absolutely anything that interferes with the speed and tempo of the game is a huge no from me.
Not only does it affect the speed and tempo of the game itself it actually, and perhaps even more importantly, negatively affects the fan reaction and emotion to a goal due to the inevitable goal review.
Even Klopp admitted he didn’t celebrate Liverpool’s second goal against City because he wanted to be sure it wasn’t being reviewed and disallowed.

In a nutshell that comment from Klopp proves my point, nothing good can possibly come from tempering or stifling fan emotion.
Fan emotion and love for the game is what has made this game the biggest sport in the world, the change VAR has brought to the fan experience is terrible, it truly has affected my enthusiasm for watching the sport.
 

MikeKing

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I believe the game was not broken to begin with, there was no overwhelming outcry week after week at poor decisions that warranted such a huge defacing of the game we love watching.

I am not against technology however it doesn’t particularly fit well with football specifically.

Absolutely anything that interferes with the speed and tempo of the game is a huge no from me.
Not only does it affect the speed and tempo of the game itself it actually, and perhaps even more importantly, negatively affects the fan reaction and emotion to a goal due to the inevitable goal review.
Even Klopp admitted he didn’t celebrate Liverpool’s second goal against City because he wanted to be sure it wasn’t being reviewed and disallowed.

In a nutshell that comment from Klopp proves my point, nothing good can possibly come from tempering or stifling fan emotion.
Fan emotion and love for the game is what has made this game the biggest sport in the world, the change VAR has brought to the fan experience is terrible, it truly has affected my enthusiasm for watching the sport.
1. There absolutely have been valid reasons for looking into improving officiating in football. The goal being to make the game better for the real viewer, those genuinely invested in their teams. They would applaud the fairness of the game, and those watching to see controversy won't. In fact they love the way it is right now, and we both don't want it to be like this. There is a middle ground here and we're allowed to ask for better.

2. I think it fits perfectly with football. A ref in a sense has nothing to do with the game being played. You can replace a card dealer with a machine that deals cards without it effecting the game in any way. It might change the feel of say a poker game but there'll be less mistakes, less chance of cheating and corruption and most importantly the game will still be played the same. I want to see a natural game of football without refs being in the center of attention as it ruins the experience for the watcher.

If we scored enough goals I would be happy to wait a bit for each to get confirmed. It is ok to celebrate. A beautiful goal gets celebrated even if you are losing the game, and can even be applauded by opposing fans if really spectacular. The only ones who can take that away from fans are the fans themselves. Personally, It doesn't bother me much in it self waiting for a goal to be reviewed. If I knew the right decision would be made, I would be fully behind it. The problem is that the decisions are wrong sometimes, and applied different each week.

I get the frustration if you thought it was a goal then celebrated and the following disappointment when a goal was wrongly disallowed but that happens even without VAR when you see a clear foul and expect it to be called and the other team scores on you and nothing is given. I hate it. If they could review it and give the correct decision very quickly, it would be for the good of the game.

If the enthusiasm you have for football is so easily affected that you choose to not emerge yourself in the game fully because of VAR I can't help you. Only advice is to think that it might not be VAR itself that is the main cause for it. If you yourself focus on the negative of VAR during a game, you'll train yourself to not enjoy the game. So just ignore VAR and focus on the football! I should probably do the same with refs. Would everything really be great again if they removed VAR, or even refs today? No, it certainly wouldn't change my life either way, not sure why I'm arguing about this anymore.:lol:
 

RUCK4444

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1. There absolutely have been valid reasons for looking into improving officiating in football. The goal being to make the game better for the real viewer, those genuinely invested in their teams. They would applaud the fairness of the game, and those watching to see controversy won't. In fact they love the way it is right now, and we both don't want it to be like this. There is a middle ground here and we're allowed to ask for better.

2. I think it fits perfectly with football. A ref in a sense has nothing to do with the game being played. You can replace a card dealer with a machine that deals cards without it effecting the game in any way. It might change the feel of say a poker game but there'll be less mistakes, less chance of cheating and corruption and most importantly the game will still be played the same. I want to see a natural game of football without refs being in the center of attention as it ruins the experience for the watcher.

If we scored enough goals I would be happy to wait a bit for each to get confirmed. It is ok to celebrate. A beautiful goal gets celebrated even if you are losing the game, and can even be applauded by opposing fans if really spectacular. The only ones who can take that away from fans are the fans themselves. Personally, It doesn't bother me much in it self waiting for a goal to be reviewed. If I knew the right decision would be made, I would be fully behind it. The problem is that the decisions are wrong sometimes, and applied different each week.

I get the frustration if you thought it was a goal then celebrated and the following disappointment when a goal was wrongly disallowed but that happens even without VAR when you see a clear foul and expect it to be called and the other team scores on you and nothing is given. I hate it. If they could review it and give the correct decision very quickly, it would be for the good of the game.

If the enthusiasm you have for football is so easily affected that you choose to not emerge yourself in the game fully because of VAR I can't help you. Only advice is to think that it might not be VAR itself that is the main cause for it. If you yourself focus on the negative of VAR during a game, you'll train yourself to not enjoy the game. So just ignore VAR and focus on the football! I should probably do the same with refs. Would everything really be great again if they removed VAR, or even refs today? No, it certainly wouldn't change my life either way, not sure why I'm arguing about this anymore.:lol:
:lol: It wouldn’t change my life either.

But in fairness I’ve watched the game avidly my entire life, not just United games but any and everything football related, it’s my main interest outside of work and is therefore relatively important to me.

I just think the game we love has been blighted by VAR and any sort of officiating should never be this visible, this divisive, this time consuming.

Surely for it to be seen as an actual improvement it must provide 100% certainty for every call but yet it doesn’t and we are still left with all the negatives.

The fitness of referees has been an issue and one I feel could have been improved dramatically, that should have been tried first rather than letting these old feckers jog around 30 yards away from the play.

I can understand people wanting the game to be fair, nobody wants any different, however the game itself should not be tainted in some obscure quest to take the rules to the extreme, to the point we are checking if somebodies little toe is offside or if a ball grazed a fingernail. If that sort of stuff is what interests people in football as a sport then the world has gone mad. :houllier:
 

MikeKing

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:lol: It wouldn’t change my life either.

But in fairness I’ve watched the game avidly my entire life, not just United games but any and everything football related, it’s my main interest outside of work and is therefore relatively important to me.

I just think the game we love has been blighted by VAR and any sort of officiating should never be this visible, this divisive, this time consuming.

Surely for it to be seen as an actual improvement it must provide 100% certainty for every call but yet it doesn’t and we are still left with all the negatives.

The fitness of referees has been an issue and one I feel could have been improved dramatically, that should have been tried first rather than letting these old feckers jog around 30 yards away from the play.

I can understand people wanting the game to be fair, nobody wants any different, however the game itself should not be tainted in some obscure quest to take the rules to the extreme, to the point we are checking if somebodies little toe is offside or if a ball grazed a fingernail. If that sort of stuff is what interests people in football as a sport then the world has gone mad. :houllier:
I fully agree with your points. We probably want the same things from a game of football in the end, and I hate the current implementation of VAR. Hence me trying to figure out a solution that would make things better, instead of just saying feck it. I don't have a solution but if they put people on it to work it out, they absolutely would. They just suck and don't know what they're doing, probably because they do this VAR thing reluctantly. I mean, if you're not going all the way with it it's a gimmick nothing more.

Offside rule is just if a player is behind a line or not, mostly. That is easy to solve with technology. Just have different chips in their shoes and the ball and have a dude monitor the game FM style. The program will analyse if it is a offside, with precision and the refs will have a signal on their watch immediately. Doesn't hurt the game at all. It'll just work quickly and be correct each time. No fecking about with the zooming in on pictures etc. wtf is that.

Then the rest for me is just about consistency. They need to train and work the refs on it, after creating a blueprint of usual and a few unusual happenings in the game and decide a final direction of approach to them. Then have 3 other refs with the blue print at hand babysit them. Tell them whats what as quickly as possible, and use the video replays etc. only for the extreme and unusual situations, which would not be that often. Doesn't really slow the game down, it only enhances consistency and correct calls, on all matters. If you take this idea and ignore the specifics it will be a mess, but if you do it correctly it isn't negative.
 

Denis' cuff

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If it wasn’t for the arm of McBurnie, the ball would have glanced off his chest and gone for goal kick or throw in.
I don’t recall when humans developed pectorals that could stop a ball dead.
simple as.
Exactly. And accidental or not, he gained an advantage by the ball hitting his upper arm. It was clearly his arm.

The other week, Pogba was penalised when the ball hit the bone of his shoulder. Around the middle of the pitch and very clearly his the bone, as could be seen by the way it bounced off. Far less a handball than McBurnie’s but he was pulled up for it. It’s all about making popular decisions for the tv studios.
 

Red_Aaron

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Dig up stupid!
When you put the penalty we were awarded for a nudge on James against Norwich alongside the apparently fair challenge on Jones at the weekend it just beggars belief.

The offside interpretation is by far the absolute worst aspect of var though, it's completely against the spirit of the game in its current iteration. So many perfectly good goals ruled out through the tiniest of margins where the attacker has received no advantage whatsoever. It actually annoys me when commentators and pundits celebrate the decisions too 'if you look there the third hair on his left shin has just edged ahead of the flap of the defenders shorts so technically correct'. I'd genuinely be in favour of scrapping offside altogether in favour of the current state
 

golden_blunder

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Not really. I speak for myself but I believe Most VAR haters like myself just hate constant reviews, delays, the stop start shite you see in Rugby.

More than anything it has affected the joy/emotion a goal brings.

It was a beautifully simple game, they have tried to fix something that wasn’t truly broken.

Can you name one disgracefully poor ref call where you thought ‘this must change, bring in VAR’?
I would like to know because, you know what? It seemed like there was FECK all wrong with the game to me!!

It’s not like we were all having meltdowns every week. Sure there was a poor call every couple of games, guess what NOTHINGS CHANGED.

We still have poor decisions and now it’s coupled with endless debate rather than any sort of real focus on actual football.

They took something perfect and took a big steaming shite on it.
Completely utterly agree. They made a change just because.
 

Ikon

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I'd genuinely be in favour of scrapping offside altogether in favour of the current state
Was discussing this suggestion yesterday with a couple of mates, offside now as dictated by VAR is an absolute fiasco, and what should be a relatively simple concept has been turned into a pig's breakfast.
It'd be interesting to see how that would affect the game if offside was no longer in use, and surely cannot mess the game up more than VAR is already doing.
 

Wumminator

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It works everywhere it’s just the English refe....


“ Real keeper Thibaut Courtois comes flying off his line and brings down Mauro Icardi. The referee sends Courtois off and gives a free-kick to PSG just outside the box.

But there is a VAR check to see if the foul was in the box - and it definitely was.

But as everyone waits for the penalty to be awarded, the referee spots a shove by Idrissa Gueye on Marcelo in midfield in the build-up to the move.

So everything is wiped out. No red card, no penalty, not even a free-kick to PSG.”

Oh....
 

Cliche Guevara

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It works everywhere it’s just the English refe....


“ Real keeper Thibaut Courtois comes flying off his line and brings down Mauro Icardi. The referee sends Courtois off and gives a free-kick to PSG just outside the box.

But there is a VAR check to see if the foul was in the box - and it definitely was.

But as everyone waits for the penalty to be awarded, the referee spots a shove by Idrissa Gueye on Marcelo in midfield in the build-up to the move.

So everything is wiped out. No red card, no penalty, not even a free-kick to PSG.”

Oh....
I’ve not really been following how this works tonight but in the matches thread I was told the ref looked at the monitor and changed his mind.

Thing is the tackle happened right in front of him and he was unimpressed waving at the player to get the feck up.
 

bleedred

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But, But, VAR works well in other leagues, its only the FA who have fecked it up!
 

sullydnl

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Awful, awful decision I thought.

Though it does (in a unfortunate way) highlight one of the benefits of having the referee look at the monitor: if a bad decision is made you know for sure who ultimately made it. As opposed to the PL, where we'd be left trying to guess what might have been said between the ref and VAR. Accountability matters as people shouldn't be able to shirk blame when they do their job poorly.
 

Sayros

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Another day, another game where technology sheds a digital tear at the inability to be properly and consistently used by officials.
 

giorno

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Just going to point out that without VAR, it would have resulted in an even worse and more game-damaging mistake - courtois being sent off
 

manc4red

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I think most var issues are teething problems. However the biggest change to me at least is The after every goal the whole i wonder if it will be disallowed feeling
 

do.ob

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No that's absolutely not what i wanted to say. ^^ It's mostly just as erratic and dumb for us.

I think that's an overstatement, according to @VAR_Watch (German account for Bundesliga, which imo is quite reasonable in its assessments) the count after 11 matchdays (187 games) was:
33x correct
9x debatable
0x mistaken use of VAR
6x missed incident
1x missing onfield review
2x mistake during onfield review
It's not perfect, but it's not really bad either.
 

Ikon

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But, But, VAR works well in other leagues, its only the FA who have fecked it up!
Is that really true though..?
I have recently heard a couple of Dutch guys saying how much everyone in Holland hates VAR, so I dunno if the line that "VAR is great and its just teething problems" is completely true...:confused:
 

Zlatan 7

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I think VAR in other leagues is great, hence the amazing standard of reffing in the CL games tonight.
I just have to sit and laugh at it these days. Watching the goal show on BT laughing at goals being checked / disallowed for no reason.
 

montpelier

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Very difficult to tech offsides. 30 chips on players to check pretty game and during. Players change from offensive to defensive status. How is the ball being played defined by the tech. Offside as it is still involves subjective decisions. Tech isn't going to decide active and non active. You'd still be placing the lines, that won't be tech produced imo.

You need a simpler rule before you can go far with the tech for offside.

Multi ball chaos as the tech tracks the wrong one.
 

montpelier

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Very difficult to tech offsides. 30 chips on players to check pretty game and during. Players change from offensive to defensive status. How is the ball being played defined by the tech. Offside as it is still involves subjective decisions. Tech isn't going to decide active and non active. You'd still be placing the lines, that won't be tech produced imo.

You need a simpler rule before you can go far with the tech for offside.

Multi ball chaos as the tech tracks the wrong one.
Pre game and during....
 

Rafaeldagold

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I think most var issues are teething problems. However the biggest change to me at least is The after every goal the whole i wonder if it will be disallowed feeling
Yep & that’s never ever going to be changed with VAR.It’s just how the system is & it takes a lot from the game in my opinion which the Prem doesn’t even mention in it’s evaluations of VAR
 

Fergies Gum

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No one will be surprised to hear VAR screwed up again today. Handball right before Southampton's equaliser and the goal was given.
 

Anustart89

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And that's why any technology will ultimately fail, because the refs are poor and they're picking and choosing when to apply the laws of the game. This is one of the very few areas that the law is extremely clear on, as of this season, so it's not even a matter of subjectivity. Just ineptitude

If the laws of the game are not followed by the refs, then no technology in the world is going to help them. I mean, what's next, the wristwatch signalling goal and the ref going 'nah, not for me mate'?.
 

TheReligion

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Bunch of jokers
Pretty appalling really. You could tell they could barely operate the thing earlier in the game for that penalty shout he had. They couldn't even get the footage in the right place to check it.

This kind of stuff has been going on all season though. Surprised they have spoken out about it this time.
 

LVGSdive

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Pretty appalling really. You could tell they could barely operate the thing earlier in the game for that penalty shout he had. They couldn't even get the footage in the right place to check it.

This kind of stuff has been going on all season though. Surprised they have spoken out about it this time.
Ultimately that could cost Watford their spot in the Premier league.

I wonder if they would have a cause for suing the Premier league at the end of the season, if for example, they finish a point behind Southampton.
 

Cheech Wizard

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Cant believe they missed that and said they didn't have the angle at the time, for a televised game as well thats pretty poor standard.
 

paraguayo

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Beautifully applied in the Arsenal game. Should be used as an example
disagree completely. in an ideal world VAR isn't looking at these idiotic small things. penalty is already too hard on defense anyways
 

cyberman

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Officials have to see it. And theyre supposed to spot offsides in real time!