Giorgio Scalvini

Ekeke

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6'4 and 18 years old CB getting first team gametime at Atalanta. Atalanta play 3 at the back and he has 7 league starts so far this season

Making this thread as he has the potential to be the jackpot giant at the back and could be a major player at a big club in the future

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What I hear about him is about as positive as it gets. Very interested. This is a shite "source", but I'll take it (taken from Tuttosport).
 
Good defender, he was targeted as Kim’s replacement at Napoli before they signed Natan (who also looks very good)
 
There's quite a lot of massive CB talents, both literally and figuratively!
 
Has a reasonable release clause too I believe. Somewhere around 50m.

He looks better than Silva to me, who hasn’t really struck me as all that.
 
Rozay said:
Has a reasonable release clause too I believe. Somewhere around 50m.

He looks better than Silva to me, who hasn’t really struck me as all that.
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Can we please not sign another CB for 50m please. We do this every year and it's a terrible waste, CB is a position where a lot of talent exists at reasonable prices. Natan above someone mentioned went for £10m. Arsenal signed Gabriel and Saliba for an average of £25m. This kid is young too, no way should we be spending £50m on this.

It's one cornerstone of our terrible transfer strategy - spend a good chunk of our budget on a CB. Maguire in 2019 for £80m, Varane in 2021 (which tbh wasn't so bad price wise, he's just injured a lot), Martinez for £55m in 2022. Then again under Ten Haag we pretty much overpay for crap in every position so harsh to single out the CBs. But we should be targeting talents in the £20m range. We're not City to be spending like them on CBs.
 
marktan said:
Can we please not sign another CB for 50m please. We do this every year and it's a terrible waste, CB is a position where a lot of talent exists at reasonable prices. Natan above someone mentioned went for £10m. Arsenal signed Gabriel and Saliba for an average of £25m. This kid is young too, no way should we be spending £50m on this.

It's one cornerstone of our terrible transfer strategy - spend a good chunk of our budget on a CB. Maguire in 2019 for £80m, Varane in 2021 (which tbh wasn't so bad price wise, he's just injured a lot), Martinez for £55m in 2022. Then again under Ten Haag we pretty much overpay for crap in every position so harsh to single out the CBs. But we should be targeting talents in the £20m range. We're not City to be spending like them on CBs.
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We’re not West Ham either to be spending like them.
 
He was lucky to not give a penalty away in the final, but overall a very good performance when he came on. I'd be wary of the adaptation needed after spending around £50m, but long term would be a good signing. I still think I'd prefer Braithwaite if we're spending big money on a CB.
 
He has everything for a modern CB at 20 years old. I think if he moves it'll be to a top club and while we're 8th we wouldnt be in the running
 
marktan said:
Can we please not sign another CB for 50m please. We do this every year and it's a terrible waste, CB is a position where a lot of talent exists at reasonable prices. Natan above someone mentioned went for £10m. Arsenal signed Gabriel and Saliba for an average of £25m. This kid is young too, no way should we be spending £50m on this.
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Which CB talents are out there for c. 10-25m that are good enough to start for United? The answer is not many. Saliba went out on loan for three seasons after being signed for 27m. Gabriel for a similar price and it took 2 years and Saliba partnering him before you'd consider him a top CB. United can't afford to wait, they need a CB now so they're going to be paying a premium but what you want to do is hit the now and future in one swoop which players like Yoro, Scalvini and Branthwaite meet. Unforunately you'll have to pay a price of c. 50m to do that.
 
SilentWitness said:
Which CB talents are out there for c. 10-25m that are good enough to start for United? The answer is not many. Saliba went out on loan for three seasons after being signed for 27m. Gabriel for a similar price and it took 2 years and Saliba partnering him before you'd consider him a top CB. United can't afford to wait, they need a CB now so they're going to be paying a premium but what you want to do is hit the now and future in one swoop which players like Yoro, Scalvini and Branthwaite meet. Unforunately you'll have to pay a price of c. 50m to do that.
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For us? Lots. Our CBs other than Maguire were poor this season. In the first half of the season our attack didnt score enough but considering the youth of our front players they did a good job second half of the season. Leaking goals was the bigger issue overall.

Players signed for £20 million and less performed better than our CBs other than Maguire.

Examples -

Tarkowski - free last summer
Senesi - £12.78 million
Joachim Anderson - £14.9 million
Akanji - £20 million
 
Ekeke said:
For us? Lots. Our CBs other than Maguire were poor this season. In the first half of the season our attack didnt score enough but considering the youth of our front players they did a good job second half of the season. Leaking goals was the bigger issue overall.

Players signed for £20 million and less performed better than our CBs other than Maguire.

Examples -

Tarkowski - free last summer
Senesi - £12.78 million
Joachim Anderson - £14.9 million
Akanji - £20 million
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I meant now, those players won't go for that price anymore. Tosin for example is on a free but he's not a starting player for a top club.
 
Ekeke said:
He has everything for a modern CB at 20 years old. I think if he moves it'll be to a top club and while we're 8th we wouldnt be in the running
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Though I dont believe he is beyond United's reach even in our Current State still lets humour that thought and assume top talents would avoid United for the time being , who then we should be targeting as Our CB options according to you.
 
He looked great yesterday and my Italian friends are very hyped about him, but I wonder if he would seamlessly adapt to another system than 3 at the back.
 
I don't think he is quite ready yet to be a starter for a Premier League club. And for 5th choice that doesn't seem reasonable at all. He should stay at Atalanta for one more year to develop and then move maybe.
 
SilentWitness said:
I meant now, those players won't go for that price anymore. Tosin for example is on a free but he's not a starting player for a top club.
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Nobody knows how much players cost until the transfer fees

The point is those players existed in the past couple of years, theres no reason to think they dont exist now and will be able to be listed a year from now when a team has bought them and told us their price and they've played better than our poor CB standard this season

And we arent a top club currently, we're 8th. Tosin is good enough as one of our pool of CBs to help us get back to the top 4. An improvement over Lindelof, Varane and Evans' performances this season
 
Ekeke said:
Nobody knows how much players cost until the transfer fees

The point is those players existed in the past couple of years, theres no reason to think they dont exist now and will be able to be listed a year from now when a team has bought them and told us their price and they've played better than our poor CB standard this season

And we arent a top club currently, we're 8th. Tosin is good enough as one of our pool of CBs to help us get back to the top 4. An improvement over Lindelof, Varane and Evans' performances this season
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Come on, you are a top club and you're being pedantic when you know exactly what I mean. You finished 3rd last season and are only 8 points off 4th this season. Those margins are small. You're not a club that's targeting to finish 8th again, you're a club targeting top 4 and titles. There's a different standard between Tarkowski (who has been excellent for us) and a CB capable of doing that.
 
SilentWitness said:
Come on, you are a top club and you're being pedantic when you know exactly what I mean. You finished 3rd last season and are only 8 points off 4th this season. Those margins are small. You're not a club that's targeting to finish 8th again, you're a club targeting top 4 and titles. There's a different standard between Tarkowski (who has been excellent for us) and a CB capable of doing that.
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We finished 3rd because some other clubs were in turmoil. We werent 3rd best
 
Ekeke said:
We finished 3rd because some other clubs were in turmoil. We werent 3rd best
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You can use the exact same argument about clubs this season in reverse. The point remains, you're a club targeting top 4 and the title, not to continue to finish 8th. To do that, there is not many, if any players currently that are going to be less than 25m and capable of being a title winner.
 
Classic Italian centre-half. Looks like he might even have a higher ceiling than Chiellini and Bonucci too. The new Nesta?
 
SilentWitness said:
You can use the exact same argument about clubs this season in reverse. The point remains, you're a club targeting top 4 and the title, not to continue to finish 8th. To do that, there is not many, if any players currently that are going to be less than 25m and capable of being a title winner.
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Alright but heres the issue - important players to us finishing 3rd, namely Lisandro Martinez and Luke Shaw cant stay fit. Theres no reason to think they will in the future, rather its more likely to continue. So we're not the same side as the one that came 3rd because we can't pick some of our best players that got us there.

So that means we have different starting players who arent as good, and improving on them costs less

Our CB and DM performances are below average for the premier league.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses. Our strength is the same its been for like 5 years, we're dangerous on the break with pacy attackers who can get us goals and get some points that the performance doesnt really warrant. So thats what we do a bunch of. We try to play different ways and dont get much from it, and then we'll profit from a quick attack and get some points.

Our weakness? CB, DM, playing through a team thats sitting back and letting us have most of the ball and not committing too many players forward. But also counter attacks - our players are disorganized and out of position when we lose the ball too much and a pullback to a later arriving player is almost always on.

The weak point of a team costs less to improve than the strength of the team because other teams have the opposite problems to us.
 
Ekeke said:
Alright but heres the issue - important players to us finishing 3rd, namely Lisandro Martinez and Luke Shaw cant stay fit. Theres no reason to think they will in the future, rather its more likely to continue. So we're not the same side as the one that came 3rd because we can't pick some of our best players that got us there.

So that means we have different starting players who arent as good, and improving on them costs less

Our CB and DM performances are below average for the premier league.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses. Our strength is the same its been for like 5 years, we're dangerous on the break with pacy attackers who can get us goals and get some points that the performance doesnt really warrant. So thats what we do a bunch of. We try to play different ways and dont get much from it, and then we'll profit from a quick attack and get some points.

Our weakness? CB, DM, playing through a team thats sitting back and letting us have most of the ball and not committing too many players forward. But also counter attacks - our players are disorganized and out of position when we lose the ball too much and a pullback to a later arriving player is almost always on.

The weak point of a team costs less to improve than the strength of the team because other teams have the opposite problems to us.
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Sure, but again, you're not a club that tries to catch up, you're a club that tries to get ahead (you've made terrible transfer decisions recently though). I think those signings to get ahead are of the Scalvini, Branthwaite, Yoro ilk, which are going to be around the c. 50m mark. Players like Tarkowski, Andersen are just 'catching up' and players like Akanji are very rare to get.
 
SilentWitness said:
Sure, but again, you're not a club that tries to catch up, you're a club that tries to get ahead (you've made terrible transfer decisions recently though). I think those signings to get ahead are of the Scalvini, Branthwaite, Yoro ilk, which are going to be around the c. 50m mark. Players like Tarkowski, Andersen are just 'catching up' and players like Akanji are very rare to get.
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What do you mean recently? We've made terrible transfer decisions almost forever. Even Sir Alex had a few, but post sir Alex we've been almost non stop consantly overpaying for players and getting plenty wrong completely.

We dont need Branthwaite and Yoro. Even the top clubs dont need them. It would be fantastic to have CBs who are in their teens and young 20s who are already good but its completely fine to have 28-29 year old CBs who are good. Its a luxury to have the best emerging young players in each position. And we dont need luxury we need function. We need players to just do the job so our best players can excel and get us the points. Because we dont have that currently. We have non functional players that put us in positions where our best players cant drag us out of.

Once we have Tarkowskis who arent fashionable enough but are good defenders, then we can worry about signing the next big up and coming CBs that are 20 years old and need a year out on loan but by 22 are among the best CBs in the league.
 
Ekeke said:
What do you mean recently? We've made terrible transfer decisions almost forever. Even Sir Alex had a few, but post sir Alex we've been almost non stop consantly overpaying for players and getting plenty wrong completely.

We dont need Branthwaite and Yoro. Even the top clubs dont need them. It would be fantastic to have CBs who are in their teens and young 20s who are already good but its completely fine to have 28-29 year old CBs who are good. Its a luxury to have the best emerging young players in each position. And we dont need luxury we need function. We need players to just do the job so our best players can excel and get us the points. Because we dont have that currently. We have non functional players that put us in positions where our best players cant drag us out of.
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It is fine, we just disagree about what United need. Personally I think they need to start thinking of signings as long term strategy players who are both good enough for now and the future which Scalvini is.
 
SilentWitness said:
It is fine, we just disagree about what United need. Personally I think they need to start thinking of signings as long term strategy players who are both good enough for now and the future which Scalvini is.
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I think Scalvini is obvious. The problem is what do we offer that top teams dont right now? More money? He'd be confident he'll play wherever he goes.

And the second problem is the Hojlund problem. He'll cost a lot because top teams will want him so even if we got him he'd take up the bulk of the transfer budget leaving little to address midfield, not having fit leftback problems, not having an option to rotate with Hojlund over the season up front and so on.

Most of the teams above us didnt need to sign a Scalvini, someone who at 20 years of age can start at a top club.

Ake was like 24 or 25 when he was signed by City, and Dias was I think 24 playing for Benfica and thats good enough for City to win the league.
 
Lash said:
He was lucky to not give a penalty away in the final, but overall a very good performance when he came on. I'd be wary of the adaptation needed after spending around £50m, but long term would be a good signing. I still think I'd prefer Braithwaite if we're spending big money on a CB.
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Indeed. Lucky for him there was a Bayer player offside. The ball didn't reached him because a defender managed to cut it, but is still offside under the laws of the game, despite the player not touching the ball.
 
André Dominguez said:
Indeed. Lucky for him there was a Bayer player offside. The ball didn't reached him because a defender managed to cut it, but is still offside under the laws of the game, despite the player not touching the ball.
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Yep, good lesson for him to always check his shoulder and lucky for him didn't have to face the consequences of losing track of the attacker. As I said though, shouldn't negate the rest of his performance, he's going to be a great player.
 
SilentWitness said:
Which CB talents are out there for c. 10-25m that are good enough to start for United? The answer is not many. Saliba went out on loan for three seasons after being signed for 27m. Gabriel for a similar price and it took 2 years and Saliba partnering him before you'd consider him a top CB. United can't afford to wait, they need a CB now so they're going to be paying a premium but what you want to do is hit the now and future in one swoop which players like Yoro, Scalvini and Branthwaite meet. Unforunately you'll have to pay a price of c. 50m to do that.
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There was one in my post - Natan. CB is one area of the pitch where players tend to require less of a specialised skillset - e.g. a player like Vini is rare, but most CBs tend to do similar things. You can buy one for less and develop them - under SAF we had the likes of Vidic, Smalling, Johnny Evans play regularly who were all cheap/free.

It's absolutely 100% the right strategy to not spend £50m on a CB and actually scout properly for once and sign one for around £20m. Midfield and the attack is where you spend big. We waste money there every summer and what do you get? Maguire and Lisandro for £130m? You could've bought similar calibre players for £40m.
 
marktan said:
There was one in my post - Natan. CB is one area of the pitch where players tend to require less of a specialised skillset - e.g. a player like Vini is rare, but most CBs tend to do similar things. You can buy one for less and develop them - under SAF we had the likes of Vidic, Smalling, Johnny Evans play regularly who were all cheap/free.

It's absolutely 100% the right strategy to not spend £50m on a CB and actually scout properly for once and sign one for around £20m. Midfield and the attack is where you spend big. We waste money there every summer and what do you get? Maguire and Lisandro for £130m? You could've bought similar calibre players for £40m.
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You can scout properly for players who go for those types of fees too, it's not only limited to cheaper signings.
 
Linked to Newcastle (The Times) for a rumoured 30m. If the injury hasn't impacted his development than that is a steal. I am surprised that Newcastle are not fighting Palace for Sporting's Diomande though.
 
Bastian said:
The worry is his injuries, but he's extremely highly rated.

The other concern is whether Atalanta would want to do more business with United after that Ederson situation.
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Had surgery on his shoulder and ACL and doesn't seem to have had any ongoing issues with them. 2 years left on his deal. Atalanta are trying to buy Todibo to replace him, so he's going to move if someone meets their sale fee of around 45 million euros. As far as I'm aware he wants to play in the Premier League and isn't engaging in contract renewal talks.
 
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