Club Sale | It’s done!

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MancunianAngels

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Social media wasn’t a thing. Only match going fans really had a chance to display their feelings. The Glazers were chased out of Old Trafford in the back of a Police van by a baying mob. A whole new football team was created. MUST were very vocal. In 2010 there was the whole Green and Gold movement and the Red Knights. We were just as powerless against them back in 2005 as we are now to influence who buys the club.

Not necessarily a fan of Qatar buying us, but to make it seem we had any choice about the Glazers is ridiculous. Unless we have some secret billionaires on here
Yes I know. I was involved in some of that. I actually saw one of the main organisers on Saturday at a charity event. Mad as a box of frogs but his desire and passion still shines through.

Back on topic, we may not have had a choice but people's lack of action suggested at the very least that they were happy with what was going on. When Red Issue tried to encourage a boycott of a meaningless end of season game v West Brom in May 2005, match going fans ultimately said no. That was the first sign that people who sung "not for sale" didn't mean it.

The lack of action between January 2006 and January 2010 told the Glazers that we were happy with their ownership.

The fact that people only really protested about the Glazers post 2013 when the team was underperforming spoke volumes. It said now I care about the ownership but only because we've dropped a few places in the table.

It took the Glazers threatening to form the Super League before anything meaningful happened. Even then, it took old school faces from the 1998/2005 movements to sort things. Not the ludicrous fan cam whoppers that seem to be more than happy for Qatar to take over.

There's no such thing as an ethical billionaire but at the very least, can we not be actively celebrating a state buying us? It's undignified and goes against the very ethos of those that have been fighting for the soul of MUFC since the mid 1990s.
 

Ahriman

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“The moralists” Jesus wept. The people who let morals to inform their judgement, perish the thought.
I assume your morals dicatate every decision you make then? No iphone, no sportswear, conscientiously vetting every product before purchase? Or is it only an issue when it comes to the club you support?

If Qatar don't buy the club everyone shouting about morality will just go back to the usual default stance of overlooking the inconvenient truths. It's pure hypocrisy.
 

devilish

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“The moralists” Jesus wept. The people who let morals to inform their judgement, perish the thought.

Do you call the people on the other side “the human rights abuse apologists”? Doesn’t have as nice a ring I’ll give you that
I come from a country with a past of being a colony for thousands of years. It suffered slavery, during WW2 it nearly got starved and it never invaded any other country or had a weapon industry. We can do better with asylum seekers (though we do alot for a small country) but it's still better then most other western countries do especially those who want to send migrants to rwanda

Thus I don't share the guilt than citizens of some western countries have of being part of a country whose wealth was built on screwing others. Actually I find it patronising of them lecturing morals to me as their ancestors had probably shat on mine in the past and as a border country we repeatedly get migrants which are usually the consequence of bad decisions taken by your government.

I respect the man utd moralist views but frankly I don't share them. For me football is a sport not political. I don't ask about the morality surrounding United just as I Don't ask were my money is going when I switch the light on or who made the android phone I am using. I don't understand the concept of sportswashing either. I won't justify what qatar does just because they are our owners just as I never justified what the Glazers or Edwards did.
 

Messier1994

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There are around 163,000,000 shares outstanding (public float + privately held Class B). $30-35 share price means a market cap of around $4.9-$5.7B USD, or around £4-£4.6B. I have seen debt reported anywhere between £600M-£1B, but haven't cared enough to really dig into that. If media reports are to be trusted, a successful Qatari bid may be closer to $35 per share territory. $40 per share just on speculation (not even the takeover price) is not in line with the reported figures.
Appreciate your input, but a few things.

40$ per share does have a link to the reported figures. Ineos bid is reported to value the club (EV) at £6bn. The debt is (was, the sterling recovering some on the USD will have reduced it a bit) £781m. If 9-2 is to match that with a merger offer, it is £6bn minus 781m times 1.2 (£/$) divided with 169,000,000 = $39 per share.

I strongly disagree that the share price reflects the odds of who wins the bid. In my view, all that is reflected there is the risk/reward profile of the market from a potential takeover, based on written confirmation from the Company that they are reviewing strategic alternatives.
You are the financial expert so this should be your home turf, I am just a lawyer -- but I must correct you here -- of course it does as a rule. Is it possible for like wallstreetbets to manipulate the share price? Of course, but we haven't seen that type of movements, so while you of course cannot take the share price as definite proof of the state of a merger, you can as a rule certainly draw conclusions from it.

Something must be lost in translation. (a) What you are saying is the same thing, doesn't "the risk/reward profile profile of the market from a potential takeover," reflect how likely the market thinks a bid is, i.e. the odds for a merger to take place? Of course it does. If the market assume that a takeover will take place, the shareprice is generall very close to the offered price. Of all the successful takeovers I have worked on, I don't think I ever has seen a share price 10% below the offered price (unless my side was the winner after a bidding war). If the market thinks there is a big risk for a takeover to not take place, the share price drops down towards the levels it was before the announcement, and often lower. If Wall Street believed that there was a strong likelihood for a successful takeover by Qatar., it would be noticed in the share price. The fact that the free float is limited, would increase the impact on the share price rather than decrease it. Or are you saying that the turnover is so limited that you can't even bother to trade with it? But is it that extremely limited?

(b) If you have a stock that that sat at $15 before an auction process was announced, you have (1) a merger proposal at say $34 per share, and the share trades at $19.04 and (b) an offer for a simple OTC transaction regarding the main owners shares (in a jurisdiction without any Mandatory Bid provisions) -- I would definitely say that conclusions can be drawn about how likely the market think the merger proposal is to succeed. So how likely does the market think that a full merger is at this point? This is definitely your home turf, but given that the share price topped out around $26.84 when the Qatari news rocked the hardest and have dropped to $19.04 since, it doesn't seem like a daring gamble to state that the market isn't that convinced of a full merger with 9-2.

I wrote what I did in reply to a post quoting a blogger claiming to know that Qatar had come in with an improved merger offer that had been accepted, and my reply was, nothing is happening to the share price, the market doesn't seem to believe that report if it was aware of it, and it was all over twitter.

The float is so low that it does not take much to get it moving based on speculation from football journalists (including disreputable ones) or even random Twitter rumours. To demonstrate this with a recent example, that QatariFC guy posted something yesterday at 3 pm, and look at what happened to the share price. The daily swings are primarily a function of speculation. The shares are still trading at a hefty premium compared to pre-Raine news, and were holding at $20+ for most of it. I am of the opinion that the action in the last few weeks is just a function of the uncertain timeline compared to what was previously reported, Ratcliffe repeatedly being billed as the favourite by the press, and the absence of news like in the winter that suggested the Qataris were just going to blow everyone away with an aggressive bid (by all accounts in the press, that does not appear to be the case).
This is apples and oranges in relation to what I was talking about. From my POV, nothing has happened to Man Utd share price the last 30 days. Its low is 18.46 and high is 19.19. There has been surprisingly little movement. If there were credible reports that Qatari was going to have a take private merger of the club approved -- I would be shocked if the share price didn't top $25.

Regarding "50% of takeovers are leaked" (based on trading activity before a public announcement), I can only speak from my experience, but that looks way off.
They actually do often leak, my experience is that it of course isn't a "50 percent" risk of leaks (the seller would perhaps say "chance" instead of risk, since they leads to increased premiums), but bigger takeovers often leaks. This report has it at 42 percent: https://markets.businessinsider.com...on-dollar-deals-leak-early-2019-12-1028741665

I am not saying that Sweden is representative, but here its over 40%.

All I am personally taking from the share price is this: the market is still expecting there to be a transaction of some kind, but the market hates uncertainty and this process dragging out past what the media predicted + a lack of recent news on the Sheikh's bid have weighed it down. That combined with the pro-Ratcliffe news cycles. In my opinion, for reasons I outlined before, the activity is fueled entirely by speculation over whether there is a full takeover or not and should not be read as gospel to gauge which outcome is more likely.
Well, I agree 100%. :smirk: Since I think we both agree on what the share price is "not" saying, i.e. that the market thinks a full merger with Qatar is a done deal..

With all the above said, the one unknown for me is the potential for courts on the Cayman Island accepting a lower per share price for the A shares compared to what Qatar would offer for the B shares in a merger. This would never be accepted in the Europe, nor in the US I suspect (which is supported by some general googling), for obvious reasons.
 
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Messier1994

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@putzmcgee123 BTW, what do you think of the reports of how Raine has presented a formal merger proposal to the board of MUFC plc, which after a formal vote turned it down? To me that sounds like the Raine Group more or less closing the books on a full merger (with their involvements at least). 9-2 could of course circumvent Raine, and with the Qataris I would not rule anything out, but I have never experienced a financial advisor taking a formal proposal to a BoD for a vote resulting it being dismissed.
 

Nori-

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So many things are pointing to a Jim/Glazer deal.

1. The fact they're waiting until after the FA Cup final points to bad news, like others have said. If they were leaving we would know about it, irrelevant of the disruption it would cause our FA Cup final. They'd grab the money with both hands while it was still on the table, without any hesitation.

2. The Mason Mount deal. In January we had our hands tied because of the sale process, meaning no large amount of money could be spent until things were clearer. Now we can magically spend a small fortune on Mason Mount, that's before the 3 or 4 other positions we need to cover? I think their decision has been made and they're getting on with business as usual.

3. If the Qatar camp knew they were going to win or even confident, news would have leaked. They'd want to put a lot of peoples minds at rest. The Glazers wouldn't turn back on a reported £5.5 billion because news had leaked. The fact it's so quiet on Qatari end is worrying

I really hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
 

Joseunited

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So many things are pointing to a Jim/Glazer deal.

1. The fact they're waiting until after the FA Cup final points to bad news, like others have said. If they were leaving we would know about it, irrelevant of the disruption it would cause our FA Cup final. They'd grab the money with both hands while it was still on the table, without any hesitation.

2. The Mason Mount deal. In January we had our hands tied because of the sale process, meaning no large amount of money could be spent until things were clearer. Now we can magically spend a small fortune on Mason Mount, that's before the 3 or 4 other positions we need to cover? I think their decision has been made and they're getting on with business as usual.

3. If the Qatar camp knew they were going to win or even confident, news would have leaked. They'd want to put a lot of peoples minds at rest. The Glazers wouldn't turn back on a reported £5.5 billion because news had leaked. The fact it's so quiet on Qatari end is worrying

I really hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
I think you're wrong.
 

IncyWincySpider

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I always picture the Qatar fanclub as looking like an assortment of background characters from Jabba's palace. I can imagine someone with green skin and pointy teeth emerging from the shadows to tell me if I've ever handled polystyrene I'm a hypocrite for complaining about the trapdoor and the monster in the basement.
 

AlexUTD

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Obviously not a Qatar fan, which is fair enough given a number of things. But surely you can see the appeal to many fans swaying towards the Qatar bid over SJR when one bid is promising to invest / clear debt etc, like @AlexUTD has stated, whilst the other hasn't stated anything about investing in the stadium & clearing the debt which is a huge burden on the club and can hinder transfers under financial regulations. A lot of fans just want us debt free, upgrading to the stadium and training facilities and using our income to purchase players - both for the male and female side of it.

You've also got to factor in that SJR has done absolutely feck all during his ownership of Nice, and you could argue made them worse. If all he wants to do is own United and not turn it back into a powerhouse of world football and use the clubs income to fund the debt and purchase players etc then Qatar is the better of two evils.
Well said mate!

Well seems like some fans ignore pledges from Qatar ownership and welcomes new owners even if they have shown at Nice and lausanne that they are just as clueless as the Glazers. Well after 18 years of greedy and clueless owners i had enough.

In a perfect world we would have some person bidding wich was a fan like us and was not a business man but that is just a dream.

The reality now is that we have 3 options:
-Glazers stays
- INEOS (Greenwashing)
-Qatar (Sportwashing)

I choose Qatar that is open about investing in the club and the community with the ninetwo foundation. The more Qatar want to integrate with Europe the more they have to show that they are open to make changes in their own country. Maybe im naive.
 

Tango80

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So many things are pointing to a Jim/Glazer deal.

1. The fact they're waiting until after the FA Cup final points to bad news, like others have said. If they were leaving we would know about it, irrelevant of the disruption it would cause our FA Cup final. They'd grab the money with both hands while it was still on the table, without any hesitation.

2. The Mason Mount deal. In January we had our hands tied because of the sale process, meaning no large amount of money could be spent until things were clearer. Now we can magically spend a small fortune on Mason Mount, that's before the 3 or 4 other positions we need to cover? I think their decision has been made and they're getting on with business as usual.

3. If the Qatar camp knew they were going to win or even confident, news would have leaked. They'd want to put a lot of peoples minds at rest. The Glazers wouldn't turn back on a reported £5.5 billion because news had leaked. The fact it's so quiet on Qatari end is worrying

I really hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
Why is SJR taking over ownership a bad thing?

A bad thing is minority investment.
 

stw2022

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Why is SJR taking over ownership a bad thing?
It isn't a bad thing at all. But it would be a continuation of Glazernomics, expecting us to at least partially finance the cost borrowed to but us and run to be self-sufficient relying solely on what the club can afford.

Essentially real world stuff. How almost literally how every large company on the planet runs. Football clubs too.

It would just seem odd given that's basically everything people have wanted the Glazer's out over that those same people would welcome that structure again
 

AlPistacho

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Spot on.

United don't even need that kind of model to succeed. Just someone who allows the club to function and spend most of it's own money.

On a wider point, there's an increasingly desperate tone to some of these pro Qatar/anti Glazer messages. This one below is a great example. We're not in administration. Why would we cease to exist if the Glazers carry on? I despise the bast**ds but that's just ridiculous.


Where were these people in 2005? Hell, where were they in 2010? If anyone now screaming about the death of MUFC with the Glazers was more alert and awake 18 years ago, maybe we wouldn't have been stuck with them for so long.
You are aware anti glazer protests were talking place when we were in the CL final? It’s a huge insult to fans and a lie to say the anti glazer protests only started after the league titles stopped coming.
 

Marcelinho87

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So many things are pointing to a Jim/Glazer deal.

1. The fact they're waiting until after the FA Cup final points to bad news, like others have said. If they were leaving we would know about it, irrelevant of the disruption it would cause our FA Cup final. They'd grab the money with both hands while it was still on the table, without any hesitation.

2. The Mason Mount deal. In January we had our hands tied because of the sale process, meaning no large amount of money could be spent until things were clearer. Now we can magically spend a small fortune on Mason Mount, that's before the 3 or 4 other positions we need to cover? I think their decision has been made and they're getting on with business as usual.

3. If the Qatar camp knew they were going to win or even confident, news would have leaked. They'd want to put a lot of peoples minds at rest. The Glazers wouldn't turn back on a reported £5.5 billion because news had leaked. The fact it's so quiet on Qatari end is worrying

I really hope I'm wrong but it's not looking good.
Just sounds like you've made up a scenario in your head and ran with it.
 

Marcelinho87

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It isn't a bad thing at all. But it would be a continuation of Glazernomics, expecting us to at least partially finance the cost borrowed to but us and run to be self-sufficient relying solely on what the club can afford.

Essentially real world stuff. How almost literally how every large company on the planet runs. Football clubs too.

It would just seem odd given that's basically everything people have wanted the Glazer's out over that those same people would welcome that structure again
The structure, the debt etc isn't the problem, at least not for me.

It's the mishandling of the debt and the lack of care about the asset.

I would expect that to change under INEOS but of course I have no way of proving that, nor has his opposition.
 

stw2022

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You are aware anti glazer protests were talking place when we were in the CL final? It’s a huge insult to fans and a lie to say the anti glazer protests only started after the league titles stopped coming.

Its revisionist to claim the protests were anywhere near the level they later became when we were winning. They simply weren't. Success quietened them and it only got going again due to the uproar over the refinancing in around 2010 which is when the green and gold thing first became noticeable as a protest movement.
 

cheekybackheel

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I don't, but I'm also not pushing my opinion based on guesses. All I'm saying is that a narrative is being pushed based on 2 lousy tweets, come on.
Fair enough. But let's be honest, there's been sod all going on in this thread for months. Speculation is all we have to keep us sane.

Bloody Glazers are the pits.
 

cyberman

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Its revisionist to claim the protests were anywhere near the level they later became when we were winning. They simply weren't. Success quietened them and it only got going again due to the uproar over the refinancing in around 2010 which is when the green and gold thing first became noticeable as a protest movement.
We’re we not winning in 2005? Even in 2010 we had won 3 leagues in a row and reached 2 out of 3 CL finals!
 

cheekybackheel

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Said it a thousand times. But if SJR takes over then don't expect much to change.

He's a business man and he hasn't made his money by giving it away or blowing it unnecessarily.

Any change to transfers, Old Trafford and Carrington would be a very slow process.
 

stw2022

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The structure, the debt etc isn't the problem, at least not for me.

It's the mishandling of the debt and the lack of care about the asset.

I would expect that to change under INEOS but of course I have no way of proving that, nor has his opposition.
I think an inconvenient truth is that the debt has never really been an issue.

Essentially the argument has been "The debt has handicapped our ability to compete in the market and all this money we spend to compete in the market undermines my point is really annoying"

I think the debt itself isn't an issue. Bad management in not maintaining the infrastructure was. But that could have been achieved within the current (then) financial reality. Fact it wasn't, was mismanaged and now there a tipping point of needed huge investment in the stadium that is now unaffordable. Had the chosen to smartly invest over 20 years that would have been different and they might not be on this cliff edge of needing to sell.
 

CodeRed

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My company which is as big as United if not bigger yesterday finally saw the end of a Takeover, Mass redundancies, Salary reductions on a huge scale and all the other companies that depend on us. It quite frankly has been one of the most stressful things in my life. This all took about 6 months to sort out.

It's been funny though as I've been checking on the Glazer sale about the same man hours as my own place in the same time.

This being said, everyone is thinking of the bigger picture and rightly so, but we need to remind ourselves of the normal working staff who quite frankly don't know how their own future lies. I bet some of them are so stressed and hate waking up each day waiting for possibly the inevitable. That's how I think right now and now the assholes who currently own the club.
 

AlexUTD

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We’re we not winning in 2005? Even in 2010 we had won 3 leagues in a row and reached 2 out of 3 CL finals!
Because we had built up a team full of winners before the Glazers and had the best manager in the world. Since the Glazers had huge debt they did not keep investing to stay on top and little by little the team got worse and worse.
 

Voteon

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The reality now is that we have 3 options:
-Glazers stays
- INEOS (Greenwashing)
-Qatar (Sportwashing)

I choose Qatar that is open about investing in the club and the community with the ninetwo foundation. The more Qatar want to integrate with Europe the more they have to show that they are open to make changes in their own country. Maybe im naive.
You really are. Power in Qatar is total. It is an autocratic regime. They can introduce whatever law they like, whenever they like.

Their purchase of MUFC will likelier lead to Qatar's politics being normalised, perhaps even sought, here in the UK. They do want to 'integrate with Europe', yes. They want to influence it to cultivate their dictatorship. That is their first and last ambition.

We really should be honest. The vast majority of pro-Qatar supporters think they'll get in and win everything in sight. That's all there is to it.

Furthermore, Qatar is also 'greenwashing' with United.
 

stw2022

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I wonder sometimes if the real issue of structural mismanagement was the focal point of the Glazer protests what difference it would have made. If they felt under pressure from fans over something that was real and mattered.

Probably no difference but I'd like to know. Instead we got 16 years of "Debt means we're broke" which was such an unhelpful red herring.
 

cyberman

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Because we had built up a team full of winners before the Glazers and had the best manager in the world. Since the Glazers had huge debt they did not keep investing to stay on top and little by little the team got worse and worse.
Yeah but we protested when we were winning. In fact it was another 2 league title after that and another CL final
 

Appletonred

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Given the ever increasing debt, a minority investment would be similar to rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic, the Glazers have taken their cash cow as far as they can.
There is simply no point in ceding control and remaining as a shareholder under the INEOS terms, the Glazers have always been about money, and lots of it, which is why they are almost
certain to take the Qatar offer which will represent a massive return on their "investment".
 

Son

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I come from a country with a past of being a colony for thousands of years. It suffered slavery, during WW2 it nearly got starved and it never invaded any other country or had a weapon industry. We can do better with asylum seekers (though we do alot for a small country) but it's still better then most other western countries do especially those who want to send migrants to rwanda

Thus I don't share the guilt than citizens of some western countries have of being part of a country whose wealth was built on screwing others. Actually I find it patronising of them lecturing morals to me as their ancestors had probably shat on mine in the past and as a border country we repeatedly get migrants which are usually the consequence of bad decisions taken by your government.

I respect the man utd moralist views but frankly I don't share them. For me football is a sport not political. I don't ask about the morality surrounding United just as I Don't ask were my money is going when I switch the light on or who made the android phone I am using. I don't understand the concept of sportswashing either. I won't justify what qatar does just because they are our owners just as I never justified what the Glazers or Edwards did.
I get this point of view coming from the UK I’ve never faced persecution personally. You are right a lot of the wealth here was basically pillaged.

Industry also brought a lot of good to the world too must be said and we kinda ended western slavery after the huge benefits gained. Double sided coin.

Maybe we created a new one through modern capitalism… we’ll stay on topic though :lol:

Qatar haven’t done anything like Russia is doing now on the outrage scale. It’s a Muslim state which is kinda at odds with the West but again a double sided coin as they also bring a lot of good through investment.

When we look at City I can categorically say despite the open cheating and bad things that came from it. Overall it’s been more good for English football’s image than bad.

They’ve done the state model correct on many levels… apart from the cheating with underhand payments. Other clubs might have done that to a lesser extent anyways.

In Italy and Spain I’m convinced some of their football clubs are often more corrupt than City regardless. Same with French football
 

JagUTD

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Said it a thousand times. But if SJR takes over then don't expect much to change.

He's a business man and he hasn't made his money by giving it away or blowing it unnecessarily.

Any change to transfers, Old Trafford and Carrington would be a very slow process.
Considering he comes from fairly humble means, how do you think he made money?

By taking risks and being aggressive.

The very opposite of who and what the Glazers are.
 

devilish

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I get this point of view coming from the UK I’ve never faced persecution personally. You are right a lot of the wealth here was basically pillaged.

Industry also brought a lot of good to the world too must be said and we kinda ended western slavery after the huge benefits gained. Double sided coin.

Maybe we created a new one through modern capitalism… we’ll stay on topic though :lol:

Qatar haven’t done anything like Russia is doing now on the outrage scale. It’s a Muslim state which is kinda at odds with the West but again a double sided coin as they also bring a lot of good through investment.

When we look at City I can categorically say despite the open cheating and bad things that came from it. Overall it’s been more good for English football’s image than bad.

They’ve done the state model correct on many levels… apart from the cheating with underhand payments. Other clubs might have done that to a lesser extent anyways.

In Italy and Spain I’m convinced some of their football clubs are often more corrupt than City regardless. Same with French football
I don't blame current people for the discrimination my ancestors (including towards my grandfather who was also my hero) suffered. All I am saying is that football is for me an outlet from a busy life. I'd like to see United win and while I'd support the club till the end of time, watching it being shit does effect my mood. Thus, quite frankly, I can't understand why moralists are getting their panties in their twist about Qatar buying a football club (and probably make it successful) especially since they can't get arsed creating the momentum needed to force the UK return any stolen artifacts back to its former colonies, stopping the government from sending migrants to Rwanda and creating the environment were alleged war criminal Tony Blair is dragged to court and potentially behind bars.
 
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LawCharltonBest

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Another of the many examples of why they need to go. Putting themselves ahead of the club time and time again
 

putzmcgee123

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@Messier1994 I think we are in agreement on several points actually and perhaps there is just mutual misunderstanding. The market is not convinced there is a deal for a full takeover and I certainly do not believe there is a deal in place. This is to be expected. Not sure why they would be convinced. The spikes we saw in the prior months came on speculation of a Qatari bid blowing everyone else away and a deal being done by Easter, but that has not come to fruition.

My position continues to be that the Man Utd price action is speculative. Very little is truly known by the public. I think where there is a misunderstanding is that I am saying the swings in the share price are not based in the reality of the takeover outcome probability. It's entirely speculative based on the reporting we get from football journalists who don't know their rear end from a hole in the ground when it comes to this topic.

I am not in disagreement at all with the notion of the share price increasing with Qatari news and decreasing with any other outcome. That much is obvious. My belief is that this is not reflective of the "true" probabilities. I believe what we have seen play out in the media is simply Raine's response to tough negotiating by the Qataris who don't want to overpay.

In a best case scenario, a Class A shareholder reaps the benefits of a full takeover and their shares are bought at a premium. Worst case scenario...who knows. One inescapable fact remains that, under the current structure, there is very little incentive to being a Class A shareholder outside of a potential buyout in comparison to the common shares of your average publicly-listed target company. In my opinion, the downside is much, much higher than one would see with a "typical" plc.

A couple points I do have to contend and I'll leave it at that.

  • I have not seen any report suggesting INEOS has a bid in for £6B. All the reports I've read suggest in the range of £5-5.5B, hence my prediction. If you have a link, please share as that would be news to me.
  • Share price pre-Raine was more like $12-13.
  • Have to continue to disagree on the notion that ~40% of takeovers are leaked as evidenced by share price movements before a public announcement. Can only base it on my experience, but anecdotally, I have not seen that.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,624
@Messier1994 I think we are in agreement on several points actually and perhaps there is just mutual misunderstanding. The market is not convinced there is a deal for a full takeover and I certainly do not believe there is a deal in place. This is to be expected. Not sure why they would be convinced. The spikes we saw in the prior months came on speculation of a Qatari bid blowing everyone else away and a deal being done by Easter, but that has not come to fruition.

My position continues to be that the Man Utd price action is speculative. Very little is truly known by the public. I think where there is a misunderstanding is that I am saying the swings in the share price are not based in the reality of the takeover outcome probability. It's entirely speculative based on the reporting we get from football journalists who don't know their rear end from a hole in the ground when it comes to this topic.

I am not in disagreement at all with the notion of the share price increasing with Qatari news and decreasing with any other outcome. That much is obvious. My belief is that this is not reflective of the "true" probabilities. I believe what we have seen play out in the media is simply Raine's response to tough negotiating by the Qataris who don't want to overpay.

In a best case scenario, a Class A shareholder reaps the benefits of a full takeover and their shares are bought at a premium. Worst case scenario...who knows. One inescapable fact remains that, under the current structure, there is very little incentive to being a Class A shareholder outside of a potential buyout in comparison to the common shares of your average publicly-listed target company. In my opinion, the downside is much, much higher than one would see with a "typical" plc.

A couple points I do have to contend and I'll leave it at that.

  • I have not seen any report suggesting INEOS has a bid in for £6B. All the reports I've read suggest in the range of £5-5.5B, hence my prediction. If you have a link, please share as that would be news to me.
  • Share price pre-Raine was more like $12-13.
  • Have to continue to disagree on the notion that ~40% of takeovers are leaked as evidenced by share price movements before a public announcement. Can only base it on my experience, but anecdotally, I have not seen that.
whom do you think will buy the club mate?
 
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