Yeah you are right - there is no set pattern of play apart from get it to Valencia and win a corner. Which might work if we weren't awful at them.
Goal scoring is a serious problem.
- Thread starter Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber
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I just dont see rashford scoring when he starts wide.
Martial is the only one who really looks like he has a goal or two in him to me (despite not being in great form)
Mata and Mkhitaryan i can see pitching in but not enough most weeks
Martial is the only one who really looks like he has a goal or two in him to me (despite not being in great form)
Mata and Mkhitaryan i can see pitching in but not enough most weeks
Martial was garbage up front for the portion of the game he played it against Wigan.
If you want to play direct then Zlatan is the perfect foil. He was getting very frustrated first half at how he was not getting direct passes and early crosses. For seme reason, we seem pretty clueless at how to ping balls into him with runners going beyond.
Our attack is not fluid enough. I'm not sure we play to our best with one focal point in attack
WE need an attacking midfeild. Pogba is not good enough to play in a
To cause Confusion Panic and Create space in opponents defense you need to play direct counter attacking football with width so that it stretches the opposition full backs out wide thus creating space in attacking midfeild and confusion in defensive line weather to hold the offside trap or close the space opened in front of them.
With Zlatan playing and his lack of pace and directness most of the times the principles of football under ferguson i.e direct counter attacking style gets sacrificed and the time the opposition defense gets to group together and defend narrow is enough for them to defend our shot or close our space .
Every time we play martial or rashford up front in cup games we score number of goals. Because of their pace and directness. And we are struggling to score goals in every epl game Because of Zlatan's Slowness as an attacking point who can rarely get one on one with the keeper successfully.
Are you kidding me? His pace and directness caused panic and confusion in the back line and streched them, while Zlatan always has to drop deeper, receive the ball and bring others into play thus the back line is not stretched and when the inside forwards makes inside cutting runs the opponents defense closely packed narrow because the wingers are not streching their full backs out wide also and thus valencia get ample space to drift forward still his crosses are poor and results in poor final ball and we get defended.
To cause Confusion Panic and Create space in opponents defense you need to play direct counter attacking football with width so that it stretches the opposition full backs out wide thus creating space in attacking midfeild and confusion in defensive line weather to hold the offside trap or close the space opened in front of them.
With Zlatan playing and his lack of pace and directness most of the times the principles of football under ferguson i.e direct counter attacking style gets sacrificed and the time the opposition defense gets to group together and defend narrow is enough for them to defend our shot or close our space .
Every time we play martial or rashford up front in cup games we score number of goals. Because of their pace and directness. And we are struggling to score goals in every epl game Because of Zlatan's Slowness as an attacking point who can rarely get one on one with the keeper successfully.
Remember in the LvG games where 1 shot = 1 goal? Good times 
Thesedays the opposition keeper would have to be fecking sellotaped to the post - and even then he'd manage to save a shot flying into the opposite corner.
On another day we win this game 4-0.
Thesedays the opposition keeper would have to be fecking sellotaped to the post - and even then he'd manage to save a shot flying into the opposite corner.
On another day we win this game 4-0.
I think We should try a 4411 like ferguson's last season or a 343 like chelsea under conte this season. We lack attacking balance to play a 433 or a 4231.
Im giving the caf a rest for a while. Should bring us some luck
We're extremely easy to defend against. None of our picks for the front 3 are good at stretching the play to pull defenders out of position. If we had a player in the mould of Welbeck up front, he might score fewer goals as an individual, but he'd allow the rest of the team to score more overall.
Mourinho loves this system of having a targetman that creates space for his wingers and attacking midfielders. It's how he's played at every club. But neither Zlatan nor the players behind him are suited to that style. We have to chage one or the other and, if we're honest, we don't have the players to change the latter. Maybe we don't have the players to change the former either, but it would be a quicker fix.
That being said, a totally different system would be just as good a remedy. A big man-quick man combo would shake things up, and we certainly have the players for that.
Mourinho loves this system of having a targetman that creates space for his wingers and attacking midfielders. It's how he's played at every club. But neither Zlatan nor the players behind him are suited to that style. We have to chage one or the other and, if we're honest, we don't have the players to change the latter. Maybe we don't have the players to change the former either, but it would be a quicker fix.
That being said, a totally different system would be just as good a remedy. A big man-quick man combo would shake things up, and we certainly have the players for that.
This.
Though we have the players to change it and Mourinho has to stop putting Zlatan in every game for 90 mins when its not working. Rashford and martial can both play as strikers or 2 man attacking point or a 3 man attacking point in a 343 is also a solution.
As I have been saying a lot, we need to sort the problem with not scoring early.
It makes everyone nervous and put more pressure. So easy finishing seems nervy ones and starts to have horrible misses.
Something is making our players a bit nervous. Something has to change with how we approach in certain ways, I think.
It is all good to drool over how many sitters we missed or 'creating chances' but if we can't have enough goals, it is broken in a way.
It makes everyone nervous and put more pressure. So easy finishing seems nervy ones and starts to have horrible misses.
Something is making our players a bit nervous. Something has to change with how we approach in certain ways, I think.
It is all good to drool over how many sitters we missed or 'creating chances' but if we can't have enough goals, it is broken in a way.
A big part of it is the wingers IMO. Martial is literally the only player who can play as a proper winger, but even then, his crossing is usually "meh". But at least he can really stretch teams and give us a threat on the wing. Mkhitaryan can balance it out pretty well on the other side, especially with Valencia there, but if he's off form, and then we have somebody like Rashford on the left, then our only route to create chances tends to be Pogba picking someone out. Which he still did more then a few times today tbf.
How many years has it been since we played a ball in behind the opposition?
We need strikers who want to be in the box (and will pick up things) ala Hernandez. If were not creating chances fine, but were creating and we need somebody for the defence to worry about, not those who will keep moving out the box.
Basically somebody to bring on so that we can have to score (to make it 2 or 3 up front).
Basically somebody to bring on so that we can have to score (to make it 2 or 3 up front).
I realise people disagree with me on this, but I honestly don't believe the chances we create are of a particularly high quality. Yes, they're often close to goal... but the approach is so laboured that defenders/goalkeepers have a reasonable chance of preventing most shots from going in. It's not a coincidence that otherwise ordinary defences look world class against us.
For all the chances we create, how many of them are a result of pulling the opposition defence out of shape? Now look at how often our rivals are able to pull opposition defences out of shape. That's the reason they're able to score more goals. It's really difficult to score through a compact back four that's well in line.
For all the chances we create, how many of them are a result of pulling the opposition defence out of shape? Now look at how often our rivals are able to pull opposition defences out of shape. That's the reason they're able to score more goals. It's really difficult to score through a compact back four that's well in line.
Our attack is fine. We are creating chances. We are just not taking them. Signs of the team being mentally weak - a symptom of the previous administration.
Mourihno will address this. He knows about the issue. We'll get our swagger back and we'll start knocking them in - probably next season though.
Mourihno will address this. He knows about the issue. We'll get our swagger back and we'll start knocking them in - probably next season though.
There are just not enough goals in the team. If you play Carrick, Herrera and Pogba, the front 3 all need to be regular goal scorers. Even Ibra is more a link player than a finisher.
With current personnel, I don't think 4-3-3 is an attacking enough system in home EPL games. Carrick's introduction to the team coincided with a freakish run of match winning performances from Mkhitaryan. Overall, I think it has been a backward step for the evolution of this team.
Without a genuine goal scorer to add to the front 3, the only option is revert to 4-2-3-1 and play one more of Mata or Martial from the start.
The team will be more open, there is more risk of conceding but there will be more players on the pitch who are likely to score. Sometimes it really is that simple.
With current personnel, I don't think 4-3-3 is an attacking enough system in home EPL games. Carrick's introduction to the team coincided with a freakish run of match winning performances from Mkhitaryan. Overall, I think it has been a backward step for the evolution of this team.
Without a genuine goal scorer to add to the front 3, the only option is revert to 4-2-3-1 and play one more of Mata or Martial from the start.
The team will be more open, there is more risk of conceding but there will be more players on the pitch who are likely to score. Sometimes it really is that simple.
A game like today made me miss Chicharito. Feel like we could use a striker who works his ass off in the box to make runs and trouble defenders and put himself in great scoring positions.
A two man midfield would have to exclude either Carrick or Herrera, but Pogba can't play in a two.
How long does that 'previous administration' argument hold for though? I appreciate the bulk of our players have endured the Moyes/LVG era, but Mikhi, Pog and Zlat haven't.
We just can't shrug off that sluggishness. So disappointing to drop points today, particularly when you see an apparently misfiring City swat away West Ham in a way we could only dream of.
I agree with that and have said it before. We take far too long to get the final ball away, the opposition defences have almost always regrouped by the time we get the shot off.
I haven't looked at the stats recently but pre Christmas we had a huge number of blocked shots and shots taken from outside the area.
We're creating a lot of chances, we just can't seem to finish them.
Mind, we're creating a lot of chances, not a lot of huge chances, but usually teams pack their box against us very well, making it easier for their goalkeepers to take the few shots we have on target.
Our finishing needs to be more on point, and more often harder or further to the sides to make them harder to catch.
Suppose the idea of a great finisher with all the chances is the reason i like toying with the idea of buying Griezmann, but if we are to play 4-2-3-1 with Pogba & Griezmann, we need one hell of a defensive midfielder to partner Pogba, and I've not got a clue who could do that job at the moment that is available, or even available if we just put ridiculous money at the table.
Only player I could think of I'd consider good at the moment is Busquets, but there is no way we're getting him, so I hope some gem gets found, or at the very least emerges so we know there are some options.
Mind, we're creating a lot of chances, not a lot of huge chances, but usually teams pack their box against us very well, making it easier for their goalkeepers to take the few shots we have on target.
Our finishing needs to be more on point, and more often harder or further to the sides to make them harder to catch.
Suppose the idea of a great finisher with all the chances is the reason i like toying with the idea of buying Griezmann, but if we are to play 4-2-3-1 with Pogba & Griezmann, we need one hell of a defensive midfielder to partner Pogba, and I've not got a clue who could do that job at the moment that is available, or even available if we just put ridiculous money at the table.
Only player I could think of I'd consider good at the moment is Busquets, but there is no way we're getting him, so I hope some gem gets found, or at the very least emerges so we know there are some options.
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We're not creating a lot but our conversion rate of chances is still piss poor. The player have a real bottle mentality, especially in the league.
I disagree on the amount being few, but i suppose that's in the eye of the beholder, ultimately we agree that the mentality/ability needs to be fixed before we can start scoring and not worry about if we're capable or not.
I feel like we were doing very well when we had the run of form with the Martial - Zlatan - Mkhitaryan front-line, but because of tiredness or something else we suddenly stopped looking as menacing. Could be that teams started working harder to block Mkhitaryan and he got less influence, but then it could also be just a short period and that it's much down to the start of ours eason rather than how we've been lately, even though it frustrates me quite how we've seemed to slow down our movement in the final 3rd lately.
It's because we keep changing the team! It works in the cups being able to rotate the team to keep people fresh but in the league you need to have a solid XI who know each other's jobs inside out. Jose one week has Mata playing then it's Rooney, Rashford starts one week and then is dropped the next, every so often he will start Lingard or Martial. Even fecking Young was starting a big game at one point. Jose has been here 7 months - he should know his best XI.
I agree. I felt weird since Mourinho used to very persistent with his XI. Seems like the quality of the teams bar injuries ain't quite meeting his standard/expectation(?). Those whose are current main stays arguably meets Mourinho's expectation, even if the fan doesn't agree: Zlatan, Pogba, Rojo, Jones Valencia, DDG, Herrera. Other positions seem like a constant competition between players, which hasn't worked out well yet.
I think the problem with the last 3 years after SAF's retirement run deeper that it looks. Some players despite their potential/ talent, ain't mentally tested enough at top level which we should inspire to/ used to have under SAF. The lack of consistency is worrying. One good game then the next underwhelming.
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We shouldn't get into this situation, this season. There's no way Sir Alex would allow his team to only have one 35 y.o. and two 19-20 y.o. forwards (one can't play as a striker, and the other only has less than a season experience). It's also been proven with the previous two managers that if you rely on Rooney to win games, you're deemed to fail.
Now Mou has learnt the hard way, and stuck with a 35 y.o. striker as his only proven one.
Now Mou has learnt the hard way, and stuck with a 35 y.o. striker as his only proven one.
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33 goals in 23 games is atrocious IMO. The top 5 teams have all scored 45-52 goals. Even freaking Crystal Palace who are in the relegation zone have scored 32.
You're completely right. Tactically, I think Mourinho has been very poor this season. He's got a lot wrong and continues not to fix it even though the problems are fairly obvious. Surprised he's escaped rampant criticism - unlike Klopp.
We could've gone out for another striker this past window. Not necessarily a worldie, but someone to come in an shake up the existing striking core. Relying solely on Zlatan for our goalscoring is a poor strategy.
I think Pogba should learn how to play in a two deeper midfield. He has a similar attribute as Viera, Yaya and Dembele. Pogba is clearly wasting too many chances when he plays as an attacking midfield.
In the first half on sunday when he played through the middle he was fecking dreadful. He only displayed the kind of play you are describing (and he played very well second half) when he was moved back out to the wing.
First half he was woefully bad.
I still think there are two pretty big problems. A general stodge that gets created due to Zlatans lack of pace and the player on the right getting sucked in for Valencia to be in acres of space to ultimately do nothing with the ball resulting in fanging it in anywhere in a brainless manner.
Zlatan and Pogba clash, they are just two magnetized alpha forces that get sucked into each other. I think this will be difficult to solve given both their status at the club.
Zlatan and Pogba clash, they are just two magnetized alpha forces that get sucked into each other. I think this will be difficult to solve given both their status at the club.
It is very easy for incoming players to fall into the mentality of an existing team. I’d give him this full season and expect to bare fruits by the start of 17/18 season. Either way, our football is more attractive than what it was. Worst thing we can do is improve and put his head on the chopping block if we do not have instant success.
Are we not having shooting sessions in training?
We need to invest in finishing lessons and one true winger
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That has never ever been a valid excuse for rubbish finishing. We are 20th in the league when it comes to finishing big chances. 20th! Our chance conversion rate is also only 8.6%
When shits get for real, our players chicken out. 6th will be our finishing ranking simply because when the opportunities to truly reduce the gap are there, we rarely take them.
It's sad seeing City with Sane, Sterling and Jesus, average aged about 20, go to London and pump 4 past Hammers, while our crop of 30 somethings, Rooney, Mhkitaryan and Mata are just completely lifeless. Jose needs to trade those guys in for newer models. Otherwise things just won't get any better.
I wish Rashford could play on the right, Martial to the left and Zlatan in the middle. I like Lingard but I think he's better suited as attacking mid. The others should be reserve options, and that only until they're traded.
I wish Rashford could play on the right, Martial to the left and Zlatan in the middle. I like Lingard but I think he's better suited as attacking mid. The others should be reserve options, and that only until they're traded.
Chicharito comes to mind. I think we should have went for him or someone with his instinctive finishing.