Perhaps, not letting cimpletely out of jail. As ive said to another poster, the ball took a wee hop. Tricky enough they are but as you say he still should have scored.
Goal scoring is a serious problem.
- Thread starter Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I memtioned that in another thread. I dont think we would finish very high in a table for goals from set pieces. Pogbas had one from a corner, free kick from rooney. Nothing else is really springing to mind. Even if we had 3 more from set plays, it isnt good enough.
Our set pieces are awful.
We dont have a single consistent taker of corners, set pieces. No so far anyway, Maybe now Mikhi will take them every match.
I agree this is a serious problem. It's not like we're not creating chances - even when we play like shit we still have chances. So therefore, I reckon our composure in front of goal needs sorting out. We really need to have the lads working extra hard on this, and not only in training.
I suspect it's the same problem we've been having post SAF - most of our players cannot perform under pressure - our big issue is mental. This has been, and continues to be our downfall. I know it's difficult at United, but there are all sorts of things available nowadays to help sportsmen and women overcome anxieties and/or mental blocks. We had the greatest sports 'psychologist' in SAF, and now we're floundering around.
It's got to be pressure imho, that's a huge part of the problem.
I suspect it's the same problem we've been having post SAF - most of our players cannot perform under pressure - our big issue is mental. This has been, and continues to be our downfall. I know it's difficult at United, but there are all sorts of things available nowadays to help sportsmen and women overcome anxieties and/or mental blocks. We had the greatest sports 'psychologist' in SAF, and now we're floundering around.
It's got to be pressure imho, that's a huge part of the problem.
This is part of the problem for sure. Seems a basic enough principle to get right.
I play at a decent level myself but thanks for the info.
Twas a poor miss and you could see by his reaction he knew it. The Miki skied shot on the other hand was a nightmare bobbling ball to hit, no such excuse for Mata.
In fairness to Mata though, he's been the least guilty this season of missing great chances.
Whats all this Martial talk today?
If it was lingard you would half expect him to miss. As you say the fact it was Mata makes it hard to believe. Me and my mate were talking about the same thing before game, agreeing that Mata is pretty dependable in front of goal and probably our coolest finisher. I jinxed him.
Not a bad shout. I thought Pogba should be able to develop into a top set-piece man with his technique. But then you'd want him in the box, being 6'3'' so yeah perhaps Mkhitaryan can become our man.
It's why people who say we shouldn't buy Griezmann must be having a laugh, we need another proven goalscorer besides Ibra and Griezmann would do exactly that.
Plenty of scope for improvement:
High scoring CMs:
F. Kessie (0.4 goals/90 minutes)
N. Keita (0.36)
W. Cyprien (0.27)
Fabinho (0.27)
M. Brozovic (0.26)
C. Tolisso (0.23)
........
P. Pogba (0.19)
High scoring wide players:
F. Bernardeschi (0.54)
Y. Carrasco (0.5)
T. Lemar (0.46)
Keita (0.45)
........
J. Mata (0.34)
High scoring forwards:
A. Lacazette (1.14)
P. Aubameyang (1.07)
A. Belotti (0.82)
H. Kane (0.81)
M. Icardi (0.71)
Z. Ibrahimovic (0.67)
A. Silva (0.63)
R. Lukaku (0.59)
A. Griezmann (0.47)
High scoring CMs:
F. Kessie (0.4 goals/90 minutes)
N. Keita (0.36)
W. Cyprien (0.27)
Fabinho (0.27)
M. Brozovic (0.26)
C. Tolisso (0.23)
........
P. Pogba (0.19)
High scoring wide players:
F. Bernardeschi (0.54)
Y. Carrasco (0.5)
T. Lemar (0.46)
Keita (0.45)
........
J. Mata (0.34)
High scoring forwards:
A. Lacazette (1.14)
P. Aubameyang (1.07)
A. Belotti (0.82)
H. Kane (0.81)
M. Icardi (0.71)
Z. Ibrahimovic (0.67)
A. Silva (0.63)
R. Lukaku (0.59)
A. Griezmann (0.47)
Just buying goal scorers isn't going to help unless the attackers have an understanding of each others' game; how they pass and move, how they run, what's their running pattern, do they like the ball to feet or ahead of them etc. etc.
How many times have we seen Pogba and Mata hold their run, expecting a cutback and then watch Rashford or Lingard or one of the fullbacks hoof it to Zlatan who is marked by 2 CBs and the goalie?? Likewise, how many times have we seen Rashford or Martial make a great run and watched Mata square-pass it to Lingard or Valencia? We need to make better decisions in the final third.
But, that's not to say we don't need another marquee forward. We definitely need an upgrade on our existing options. However, we shouldn't expect the incomer to magically transform our attack.
How many times have we seen Pogba and Mata hold their run, expecting a cutback and then watch Rashford or Lingard or one of the fullbacks hoof it to Zlatan who is marked by 2 CBs and the goalie?? Likewise, how many times have we seen Rashford or Martial make a great run and watched Mata square-pass it to Lingard or Valencia? We need to make better decisions in the final third.
But, that's not to say we don't need another marquee forward. We definitely need an upgrade on our existing options. However, we shouldn't expect the incomer to magically transform our attack.
In Brian McClair's first year at United he scored 24 league goals of which I believe 5 were pens. When Hughes rejoined after his short spell at Barcelona, it was expected that this partnership would be hugely productive; in reality the opposite was true, to such an extent that McClair moved deeper and deeper. The superb Cole + Yorke partnership came about by accident. The intention was to bring in Kluivert but that moved failed to happen then Yorke initially played alongside Sheringham.
My point being that it was a mistake to bring Zlatan and Mkhitaryan to the club, especially given their respective ages. Mourinho should have built on what worked during the 2nd half of last season: the understanding between Martial and Rashford.
Football is a team game.
My point being that it was a mistake to bring Zlatan and Mkhitaryan to the club, especially given their respective ages. Mourinho should have built on what worked during the 2nd half of last season: the understanding between Martial and Rashford.
Football is a team game.
I think it's harsh to lay blame at the door of Zlatan's supporting cast. Other than Pogba he is the only attack minded player to have been given a consistent run in the team. The most number of consecutive games a wide player (or #10) has had in the team has been 4. Compare that to 13 and 11 for Pogba and Zlatan respectively. It's been hard for any of those guys to get a consistent run going. Sure it's been a figuring out process, but I think it has dented some guys confidence and they are snatching at chances, almost trying too hard to impress. I think what we need now is some continuity and allow Martial and Mkhitaryan to make those wide roles their own for the remainder of the season.
Also something which has been touched on slightly by some earlier... where are our free goals? We don't seem to be getting anything cheap just now. Goals from corners, penalties, OGs. The amount of corners we have you would think at some point some defender is going to shank a clearance or something! Gary Cahill (Chelsea defender) has more goals than our entire defence and centre midfield excluding Pogba:
Cahill: 6
Bailly, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Blind, Valencia, Shaw, Darmian, Young, Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini: 5
Everything we get we are having to fight tooth and nail for. Feels like we need to craft 4 or 5 good chances for one goal. The Reading game was a great example, Rashford had 4 good chances and scored one. He then got given a 'free goal' (yeah he worked hard pressing the keeper, but free in the sense that we didn't need to break down the defence for it). All of a sudden instead of having 1 goal in 4 chances (25%), he has 2 from 4 (50%).
Also something which has been touched on slightly by some earlier... where are our free goals? We don't seem to be getting anything cheap just now. Goals from corners, penalties, OGs. The amount of corners we have you would think at some point some defender is going to shank a clearance or something! Gary Cahill (Chelsea defender) has more goals than our entire defence and centre midfield excluding Pogba:
Cahill: 6
Bailly, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Blind, Valencia, Shaw, Darmian, Young, Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini: 5
Everything we get we are having to fight tooth and nail for. Feels like we need to craft 4 or 5 good chances for one goal. The Reading game was a great example, Rashford had 4 good chances and scored one. He then got given a 'free goal' (yeah he worked hard pressing the keeper, but free in the sense that we didn't need to break down the defence for it). All of a sudden instead of having 1 goal in 4 chances (25%), he has 2 from 4 (50%).
I think we have to keep in mind just how much we've been at sea after Ferguson, and that Mourinho has us nipping at the heels of 5 mostly well-performing sides in the fight for top 4, and we are actually playing really lovely football at times, and we have plenty of fight in us. We overcome deficits, we lose the lead and get it back at the death, and lackluster though our Stoke performance was, it certainly deserved no less than the draw Rooney clawed back for us.
We're on a good path, and I mostly trust what Mourinho is doing. I think most people would agree on all his signings being ones we approve of, and another summer to tweak and add (or shed) names to the squad will see us looking even better next season
We're on a good path, and I mostly trust what Mourinho is doing. I think most people would agree on all his signings being ones we approve of, and another summer to tweak and add (or shed) names to the squad will see us looking even better next season
We're getting really good at missing open goals from a couple yards out. I can think of at least 5 this season off the top of my head. 6 if you count the West Ham debacle as 2.
We have had a few of these goal fests now, but mainly in the cups.
All anyone has to remember though, is that under Van Gaal these weren't even happening v league 2!
All anyone has to remember though, is that under Van Gaal these weren't even happening v league 2!
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Yep, bang on!
I just remember getting some lower league teams under VG, and they'd be tough games!
We have less goals scored than Crystal Palace and Bournemouth. 
Impotent. Since ferguson has left we are impotent.
Even poor teams can create and score chances.
Something is not right with our training and coaching.
Something is not right with our training and coaching.
It's beyond ridiculous now. 9 draws just in the PL, and we absolutely dominated 7 out of them.
Many people will complain about Zlatan, but that's just silly at this stage, seeing as he's on about 20 goals already. He can't score all our goals. Pogba, Micky, Martial, Rashford, Mata and Rooney all need to do much better than this!
Many people will complain about Zlatan, but that's just silly at this stage, seeing as he's on about 20 goals already. He can't score all our goals. Pogba, Micky, Martial, Rashford, Mata and Rooney all need to do much better than this!
Pretty much. We've improved upon last season because of Zlatan but besides him we've not got one player who's consistently popping up with goals. He's got more than three times the number of the players behind him. Any good, title contending team needs more than one striker who can score semi-consistently and a midfielder or two who often pops up with some, unless they're ridiculously good at the back.
We seem clueless in the final third against average teams even. Lump the ball forward from the 70th minute and hope it drops for us. Also always looking for soft penalties now in every match. Incredibly frustrating few weeks as I'd thought we turned the corner around the arsenal/ spurs matches. Seems like if pogba or Zlatan don't conjure up something we have nothing else.
Still think that way?
We really need a wide player that can contribute with goals and get past people. Would help us so much.
And another player who's a proven goalscorer.
But yeah, we only have 1 goal-scorer in the team and that's Ibra. When he doesn't score, we're pretty much fecked.
And another player who's a proven goalscorer.
But yeah, we only have 1 goal-scorer in the team and that's Ibra. When he doesn't score, we're pretty much fecked.
Just 2 more goals than West Brom.
It takes fecking talent to not manage to score a goal with our ensemble of attacking players. We've Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford, Mata and Pogba in the squad. They had about half a million goals between them last season and now only Zlatan has looked remotely capable of consistently finding the net. I swear Moyes and van Gaal left some black magic in the water at Carrington.
We scored 49 PL goals in LVGs last season. At the rate we're on now we'll barely get 55.
There absolutely has to be some change in attack this summer.
There absolutely has to be some change in attack this summer.
Yeah, I do. We get into great crossing positions and put in garbage crosses. Mata got stuffed on a chance right across the line. Rashford fluffed a chance when Pogba played him in on goal. Pogba missed a chance when Zlatan played him in on goal. Zlatan missed a chance when Pogba played him in on goal. Herrera had a chance at the edge of the box that he didn't hit strike cleanly at all.
We should easily be finishing at least one of those chances. I have a bigger problem with Mourinho's substitutions today than our ability to create chances.
There should be something wrong with the training when even Mata and Ibra couldn't finish off some easy chances.
Our finishing is HORRENDOUS.
Pogba through on goal, smashes it at chest height at the goalkeeper. All he needed to do was hit it low. No way the keeper gets down in time. Nope. Fluffs it.
Zlatan runs onto a ball over the top. Can't control it.
Rashford runs onto a ball over the top. Swings at it in blind panic and the ball trickles harmlessly wide.
Mata gets a knock down three yards out, smashes it STRAIGHT AT THE ONLY PLACE THE GOALIE COULD POSSIBLY DIVE.
At least two of those chances should have been goals. Our attack is about as sharp as a wet noodle. Chance after chance wasted. Let's not lie and pretend the keepers we have faced have been amazing. At most there has been one top class save in all the games we've drawn. The rest of the time we just smash it straight at the keeper over and over. Its PATHETIC.
Pogba through on goal, smashes it at chest height at the goalkeeper. All he needed to do was hit it low. No way the keeper gets down in time. Nope. Fluffs it.
Zlatan runs onto a ball over the top. Can't control it.
Rashford runs onto a ball over the top. Swings at it in blind panic and the ball trickles harmlessly wide.
Mata gets a knock down three yards out, smashes it STRAIGHT AT THE ONLY PLACE THE GOALIE COULD POSSIBLY DIVE.
At least two of those chances should have been goals. Our attack is about as sharp as a wet noodle. Chance after chance wasted. Let's not lie and pretend the keepers we have faced have been amazing. At most there has been one top class save in all the games we've drawn. The rest of the time we just smash it straight at the keeper over and over. Its PATHETIC.
Said this a hundred times to people around me tonight, but I think our warm up before the match is so enlightening. The final routine of laying off chances and finishing is so unbelivably casual. So many of the passes are over- or underhit. Far too many of the shots are off target or easy saves. There's no sense of each chance being precious and the need to be clinical. It's exactly what we then see in the game.
We have to change this mindset, so by the time the match starts we're treating each chance like it is the last.
We have to change this mindset, so by the time the match starts we're treating each chance like it is the last.
I don't understand why some people see problem in creating chances. We've had enough easy chances in most of the games we got a draw, but somehow managed to miss it.
Half decent finishing and we would be fighting for title, not top 4. This is the most annoying season for me.
Half decent finishing and we would be fighting for title, not top 4. This is the most annoying season for me.
When Mkhitaryan finally hit form a couple of months ago then we finally looked like a team that could go on a winning run. But he's been absolutely shocking for about 6 weeks now apart from the odd decent cup appearance. Mkhitaryan is the only player we have on the wing who is a top 4 level player when he finds form. Martial should always be starting ahead of Rashford. I can't understand Rashford starting on the wing right now. Our attack just doesn't look good enough right now to finish the season in the top 4
Well put it this way;
Can they (at current standards) score 10 league goals + a season more often than not if played in their best position consistently?
Ibra : Yes
Martial: Probably
Rooney: No
Mata: No
Rashford: Not Proven, competing with the only person who can score regularly up front
Mhki: No
Lingard: No
Pogba: No
Given that we have a lack of great goalscorers is it actually surprising we struggle to score?
Can they (at current standards) score 10 league goals + a season more often than not if played in their best position consistently?
Ibra : Yes
Martial: Probably
Rooney: No
Mata: No
Rashford: Not Proven, competing with the only person who can score regularly up front
Mhki: No
Lingard: No
Pogba: No
Given that we have a lack of great goalscorers is it actually surprising we struggle to score?
I personally struggle to see what the game plan is at times. Ibra does what he wants, as does Pogba seemingly. I don't see them working in tandem, i.e. if Ibra drops, Pogba gets beyond him. Sometimes there's so much empty space in the final 3rd.
We keep changing the wide players and ultimately they all play so differently it's hard to see what we're going for. The situation is made worse in that only Valencia offers a threat from the fullbacks.
I just don't really see what our approach is to make the most out of the players. It's the same feeling I had with LVG although obviously we're playing better than under him.
Finishing is a problem as we do end up with some good chances but often that feels like it's when we've thrown everything at it, it really shouldn't be as hard as we're making it out to be with the players we have.
We keep changing the wide players and ultimately they all play so differently it's hard to see what we're going for. The situation is made worse in that only Valencia offers a threat from the fullbacks.
I just don't really see what our approach is to make the most out of the players. It's the same feeling I had with LVG although obviously we're playing better than under him.
Finishing is a problem as we do end up with some good chances but often that feels like it's when we've thrown everything at it, it really shouldn't be as hard as we're making it out to be with the players we have.
United have scored 33 goals thus far in the Premier League. Crystal Palace 32, Bournemouth 32, West Brom 31, Everton 34.
The teams currently above United have scored a minimum of 45 goals. Meanwhile, United have conceded third fewest in the league with 21. Chelsea and Tottenham have conceded 16.
Same shite, different manager and different pace of play. It's obviously not that simple, but my goodness does it look like it. FFS.
The teams currently above United have scored a minimum of 45 goals. Meanwhile, United have conceded third fewest in the league with 21. Chelsea and Tottenham have conceded 16.
Same shite, different manager and different pace of play. It's obviously not that simple, but my goodness does it look like it. FFS.
How about if we didn't start with either a slow 35 year old, or a slow 31 year old?
How about trying to play with a little bit of pace and more directness upfront?
Why not start Martial upfront for at least a couple of games. See how he does.
If you want pace on that left side, then play Rashford or Lingard there.
We've had "easier" opponents in the last 3 games now. Great opportunity to leave both Rooney and Ibra out.
But no. One of them always has to play.
Why just not play with Martial, Rashford, Miki and Mata. Lots of pace, talent, movement, creativity, finishing, and dribbling among those four.
How about trying to play with a little bit of pace and more directness upfront?
Why not start Martial upfront for at least a couple of games. See how he does.
If you want pace on that left side, then play Rashford or Lingard there.
We've had "easier" opponents in the last 3 games now. Great opportunity to leave both Rooney and Ibra out.
But no. One of them always has to play.
Why just not play with Martial, Rashford, Miki and Mata. Lots of pace, talent, movement, creativity, finishing, and dribbling among those four.