Government intervention against a Super League

P-Ro

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My suggestion in another thread was simply to impose a tax on earnings from the ESL, like 90% income tax and 100% tax on gate receipts at ESL matches.

Taxation is the prerogative of the state and can’t be challenged, these clubs want to be filthy rich, well they can hand over the excess wealth back to society. It would have the support of the population, especially with the huge holes in government budgets due to Covid-19
Doubt this would work practically because the tax is on profits and the owners can just reduce the clubs taxable income by giving themselves enormous salaries which would then be taxed in a normal way. Whilst tax is the prerogative of the state, they can't just levy a specific tax on 6 companies receiving income from sports related activities.
 

redNATION

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Doubt this would work practically because the tax is on profits and the owners can just reduce the clubs taxable income by giving themselves enormous salaries which would then be taxed in a normal way. Whilst tax is the prerogative of the state, they can't just levy a specific tax on 6 companies receiving income from sports related activities.
Tax is only on profits because that’s how it’s been framed, there’s nothing stopping a tax on revenues or other income streams, and at source to stop it being manipulated.

Also there are plenty of examples of specific activities or industries being taxed, banks, alcohol, cigarettes, oil extraction, these are all subject to their own tax regimes. One thing for sure, it would be a vote winner for the government, and we know that’s all they care about.
 

P-Ro

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Tax is only on profits because that’s how it’s been framed, there’s nothing stopping a tax on revenues or other income streams, and at source to stop it being manipulated.

Also there are plenty of examples of specific activities or industries being taxed, banks, alcohol, cigarettes, oil extraction, these are all subject to their own tax regimes. One thing for sure, it would be a vote winner for the government, and we know that’s all they care about.
What you're proposing to tax is revenue from sporting activities. Do you not think there might be wider implications if every company was taxed in the same draconian way as what you're proposing? There is nothing distinctive about the source of revenue or the type of activity which would only catch the 6 groups. Tax policy making can be ridiculously complex given the number of other tax implications each change has, not just on the commerical side but on how these many laws interact with eachother. Whatever you think you could propose would not happen overnight.
 

OrcaFat

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Tax is only on profits because that’s how it’s been framed, there’s nothing stopping a tax on revenues or other income streams, and at source to stop it being manipulated.

Also there are plenty of examples of specific activities or industries being taxed, banks, alcohol, cigarettes, oil extraction, these are all subject to their own tax regimes. One thing for sure, it would be a vote winner for the government, and we know that’s all they care about.
Great post. Dead on.
 

OrcaFat

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What you're proposing to tax is revenue from sporting activities. Do you not think there might be wider implications if every company was taxed in the same draconian way as what you're proposing? There is nothing distinctive about the source of revenue or the type of activity which would only catch the 6 groups. Tax policy making can be ridiculously complex given the number of other tax implications each change has, not just on the commerical side but on how these many laws interact with eachother. Whatever you think you could propose would not happen overnight.
It could be restricted to football and exemptions could be provided for companies with FA or UEFA or FIFA affiliation, for example.
 

P-Ro

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It could be restricted to football and exemptions could be provided for companies with FA or UEFA or FIFA affiliation, for example.
It just doesn't work like that. I know we're all just guys on the internet coming up with hypotheses on what a government could do to stop this abomination but trust me, as a tax professional who has experience in policy..it won't happen. It's like proposing a specific tax on income streams from sellers of coffee with exemptions for all comapnies with a global turnover of less than £10 billion and not beginning with the letter S.
 

padzilla

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So we're banking on a Tory government standing up to billionaire businessmen on behalf of the working man? Good luck with that...
 

OrcaFat

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Well it’s not because United’s holdings company is based in the Cayman Islands.
True and bless you for mentioning it. That enables them to avoid some taxes but not all.

International revenues will be out of UK jurisdiction but duties equivalent to alcohol and tobacco can be applied at point of purchase in the UK and if all European nations apply similar measures, it will be impossible for the clubs to make a greater profit than they make under the current system.
 

OrcaFat

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It just doesn't work like that. I know we're all just guys on the internet coming up with hypotheses on what a government could do to stop this abomination but trust me, as a tax professional who has experience in policy..it won't happen. It's like proposing a specific tax on income streams from sellers of coffee with exemptions for all comapnies with a global turnover of less than £10 billion and not beginning with the letter S.
Not really. But I agree it won’t happen.
 

The Boy

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What you're proposing to tax is revenue from sporting activities. Do you not think there might be wider implications if every company was taxed in the same draconian way as what you're proposing? There is nothing distinctive about the source of revenue or the type of activity which would only catch the 6 groups. Tax policy making can be ridiculously complex given the number of other tax implications each change has, not just on the commerical side but on how these many laws interact with eachother. Whatever you think you could propose would not happen overnight.
Of course it could, Labour's windfall tax on utilities was just that. You can as a government pick out the richest to tax and leave the others quite easily. The only reason tax policy gets ridiculously complex is law makers trying to give the impression of making it fair. If it's accepted that this is not going to be fair then it's easy as a one off or as an annual tax. But....

So we're banking on a Tory government standing up to billionaire businessmen on behalf of the working man? Good luck with that...
Sadly this is spot on, the government is making noise for PR value and nothing else, don't be conned by it.
 

Revan

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Of course it could, Labour's windfall tax on utilities was just that. You can as a government pick out the richest to tax and leave the others quite easily. The only reason tax policy gets ridiculously complex is law makers trying to give the impression of making it fair. If it's accepted that this is not going to be fair then it's easy as a one off or as an annual tax. But....



Sadly this is spot on, the government is making noise for PR value and nothing else, don't be conned by it.
I know that people are angry. But the government cannot do anything here. Any tax targeting 6 clubs for petty reasons will be fought in courts, and courts are independent from the government and the parliament. They will undoubtedly overthrow it.

You could potentially get away with a tax that taxes more the businesses who generate more than X amount, but the implications there would be bigger than in football.

In other words, I don’t think there is much that can be done from a legal point of view.
 

The Boy

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I know that people are angry. But the government cannot do anything here. Any tax targeting 6 clubs for petty reasons will be fought in courts, and courts are independent from the government and the parliament. They will undoubtedly overthrow it.

You could potentially get away with a tax that taxes more the businesses who generate more than X amount, but the implications there would be bigger than in football.

In other words, I don’t think there is much that can be done from a legal point of view.
Not to worry, as I said this all words and no action for PR purposes anyway from a populist government that's spotted a band wagon that needs jumping on.
 

IncyWincySpider

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It would be hilarious if a tory government brought United and Liverpool into state ownership, but I can't see it happening. Hopefully they can do something though.
 

Grande

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So we're banking on a Tory government standing up to billionaire businessmen on behalf of the working man? Good luck with that...
if it’s the same tory that sat on the gas pedal of a no-deal brexit going against all the tories ever stood for, just to look good to a bunch of voters, it is not a completely forgone conclusion. Even if 9 out of 10statements are lies, sometimes it amounts to actual policies.
 

Mb194dc

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No surprise about BoJo...

Super league with merit based qualification would be far better than the watered down incoming version of the CL. From a viewers perspective it's a no brainer, surely?

If you have to have SL divisions or something to give all European clubs a chance, why not?