Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”

cyberman

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Souness making his Casemiro points, basically retracting them and then doubling down on the comments he had retracted at first chance he got shows what kind of pundit he is
 

OL29

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I wonder if there’ll be a press campaign to stop this bullying like we’ve seen for other players?
 

Stobzilla

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I think Souness is an annoying prick, but do either of you have any evidence that his dislike of Pogba is racially driven?
I'm not suggesting it is, my post refers to whether there will be support from the media to stop going after him. Which we know won't happen and we should know why at this point.
 

CloneMC16

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I think Souness is an annoying prick, but do either of you have any evidence that his dislike of Pogba is racially driven?
I obviously cannot say it's 100% the reason for it. He has made certain comments about him that I don't think he would aim at a white player. A lot of people do this towards black players. Black people are very consistently stereotyped and criticised in ways that other races are not. If you're going on Sky Sports and saying certain things in front of an audience of millions of people, some of us are going to pick up on it.
 

Gandalf

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No evidence it is racially driven but the choice of words in this instance are unfortunate. The stereotype of people of colour being "lazy" is widespread amongst the ignorant and is particularly triggering to people who have experienced systemic racism, living in the deep south as I have for the past 20 years I have encountered that perception more times than I care to recall.

It is not so much whether Souness is racist, I doubt he is any more or less racist than anyone of his age and background, it is more a reflection of how comments about players of colour are treated by the media and society at large as opposed to white players. I am not fond of Pogba but the flood of pundits and media rushing to defend Maguire does stand in stark contrast to the way Pogba was considered fair game for all kinds of abuse.
 

poleglass red

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Souness will play to the scouse crowd when he has the chance to criticise underperforming players at Utd. Does he go ott sometimes, of course he does, he feels he'll get kudos from the Liverpool fan base. I have to say though by and large I wasn't too far off his assessment of Pogba during his spell with us. We were badly managed from the boardroom right down, we bought badly, so there's plenty of blame to throw around of which Pogba has to accept his. Worth noting during the 2018 world cup with France, a team that had great players and was well managed and had a role that suited Pogba, Souness actually give Pogba credit. One of Souness major issues with Pogba was he could be lazy and didn't track back- no arguments there. That France team had Kante and Matuidi in it, the blue print was there, surround Pogba with mobility to compensate for his lack of.I think Souness took his pops at Pogba more so because it was Utd as opposed to any other belief, the fact he openly give him credit for France highlights that.
 

Pascal Quiff

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Having not listened to the podcast - did he randomly bring up Pogba or was the question asked of his opinion on Pogba as a player? One obviously suggests a vendetta, whilst the other is his honest response to a question, as loaded as it may be.
 

Withnail

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Having not listened to the podcast - did he randomly bring up Pogba or was the question asked of his opinion on Pogba as a player? One obviously suggests a vendetta, whilst the other is his honest response to a question, as loaded as it may be.
It was a live show in Dublin and he was asked about Pogba. The hosts of the podcast have regularly slagged him off for his opinions in the past and asked him if he felt vindicated.

He spoke at length about how Pogba was talented and should have been one of the best players in the world but didn't work hard enough. They then brought up the memes etc and had an bit of a laugh about that whole thing.

He was then asked if he felt he'd been unfair and he said no and then said he thought he was a lazy twat but he was playing up to the crowd at that stage. He gotten a few laughs already and as it was Dublin there'd have been quite a few Liverpool supporters there.
 

MayosNoun

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Race card out already.

Yawn

Are we just ignoring the abuse Harry Maguire has had at every stadium and every media channel? Oh wait is he also black?

There is absolutely nothing to suggest this is racially driven.
 

Pogue Mahone

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It was a live show in Dublin and he was asked about Pogba. The hosts of the podcast have regularly slagged him off for his opinions in the past and asked him if he felt vindicated.

He spoke at length about how Pogba was talented and should have been one of the best players in the world but didn't work hard enough. They then brought up the memes etc and had an bit of a laugh about that whole thing.

He was then asked if he felt he'd been unfair and he said no and then said he thought he was a lazy twat but he was playing up to the crowd at that stage. He gotten a few laughs already and as it was Dublin there'd have been quite a few Liverpool supporters there.
Yeah, good summary.

His criticism of Pogba wasn’t just about him being lazy anyway. He also went on about how Pogba always seemed too concerned about doing something eye-catching rather than effective. Which nails his biggest flaw IMO. The way he so often dallied on the ball so he could try to out-skill or out-muscle someone, when a better option was a quick pass and move.

I thought it was interesting how Fergie had made a point of telling him how he’d never been consulted when the decision was made to re-sign Pogba.
 
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Calidad

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No evidence it is racially driven but the choice of words in this instance are unfortunate. The stereotype of people of colour being "lazy" is widespread amongst the ignorant and is particularly triggering to people who have experienced systemic racism, living in the deep south as I have for the past 20 years I have encountered that perception more times than I care to recall.

It is not so much whether Souness is racist, I doubt he is any more or less racist than anyone of his age and background, it is more a reflection of how comments about players of colour are treated by the media and society at large as opposed to white players. I am not fond of Pogba but the flood of pundits and media rushing to defend Maguire does stand in stark contrast to the way Pogba was considered fair game for all kinds of abuse.
Pogba has a languid playing style. Other’s with similar styles were also often (rightly or wrongly) called lazy. Think Berbatov, Riquelme, Le Tissier etc.

I don’t think it’s helpful or accurate to equate criticism of a player who happens to be black with racism. Why does it have to be about colour?
 

MasterDarcy

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This man would definitely call Pogba the n word on TV if he could.
That is a shocking statement.

Graeme Souness may be many things but he isn't a racist.

Can't you say anything about someone these days without it being miss-associates to something more sinister?

It's like women who cite "mansplaining" when all it is is teaching.

Souness called Paul Pogba a lazy tw*t because Paul Pogba is a lazy tw*t. Nothing at all to do with race.

Paul Pogba IS a lazy tw*t. Does that make me racist? Does me adorable Cole and Yorke muddy the waters?

He is lazy. My abiding memory of Paul Pogba is strolling around then doing some dainty little chip-pass.

Meanwhile, for France, he would run through brick walls.

I still remember the start of the BLM thing and Souness was on Sky Sports and he gave an impassioned speech to Micah Richards.

He's 100% not a racist.

He's actually very progressive in his thinking. And I don't subscribe to the "a man of his generation" thing.

The KKK aren't an OAP group. Nor is Tommy Robinson collection

In general, Souness is spot on about Pogba. If Pogba had the application of Keane or Beckham or Fletcher, he would've been incredible.
 

manhood

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Souness is that typical neibghour who doesn't like your V8, your dog but would bang your wife just to teach you a lesson and satisfy his hurt little man ego.
 

NotThatSoph

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That is a shocking statement.

Graeme Souness may be many things but he isn't a racist.

Can't you say anything about someone these days without it being miss-associates to something more sinister?

It's like women who cite "mansplaining" when all it is is teaching.

Souness called Paul Pogba a lazy tw*t because Paul Pogba is a lazy tw*t. Nothing at all to do with race.

Paul Pogba IS a lazy tw*t. Does that make me racist? Does me adorable Cole and Yorke muddy the waters?

He is lazy. My abiding memory of Paul Pogba is strolling around then doing some dainty little chip-pass.

Meanwhile, for France, he would run through brick walls.

I still remember the start of the BLM thing and Souness was on Sky Sports and he gave an impassioned speech to Micah Richards.

He's 100% not a racist.

He's actually very progressive in his thinking. And I don't subscribe to the "a man of his generation" thing.

The KKK aren't an OAP group. Nor is Tommy Robinson collection

In general, Souness is spot on about Pogba. If Pogba had the application of Keane or Beckham or Fletcher, he would've been incredible.
What a strange poem.
 

Tyrion

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I hate the guy but lets be honest he was mostly right about Pogba being shit.
He was but he seems to genuinely hate Pogba. Like it's almost personal to him. It's really weird. I saw him make some comment about Pogba along the lines of "Put your medals on the table" apparently forgetting he's comparing achievements with someone 4 or 5 decades younger than him.

I think he's just a bit of a dinosaur. Pogba is often on social media and has flash haircuts and Souness is a grumpy bastard who doesn't like that. He dismissed De Zerbi, Casemiro and anyone that hasn't done well in England as well. His understanding of football plateaued in the early 90s and has stayed there ever since.
 

Joel Miller

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He was but he seems to genuinely hate Pogba. Like it's almost personal to him. It's really weird. I saw him make some comment about Pogba along the lines of "Put your medals on the table" apparently forgetting he's comparing achievements with someone 4 or 5 decades younger than him.

I think he's just a bit of a dinosaur. Pogba is often on social media and has flash haircuts and Souness is a grumpy bastard who doesn't like that. He dismissed De Zerbi, Casemiro and anyone that hasn't done well in England as well. His understanding of football plateaued in the early 90s and has stayed there ever since.
Souness got out of management partly because he hated the way players were becoming, i.e. more interested in celebrity, being more powerful than the manager etc etc. Pogba is basically everything he hates about the modern player and I think being a very expensive United player just made him an easy target.
 

Tyrion

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Souness got out of management partly because he hated the way players were becoming, i.e. more interested in celebrity, being more powerful than the manager etc etc. Pogba is basically everything he hates about the modern player and I think being a very expensive United player just made him an easy target.
You're probably right. Keane is similar. They both hate footballers way too much for them to actually be successful in management.