Grealish & Kane in Pogba & Martial out

GreenFieldsGoldenBarley

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
34
Location
Tangier
I think Kane+Grealish=£200million. And right wing, cdm and cb are priorities. We can't keep spending all our budget on players who play in positions we already have filled, even if the players are Kane and Grealish. We'd still be seeing the same issues we have now.
 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
6,202
Kane £90 million
Grealish £80 million, £170 million

Pogba £70 million
Martial £45 million
Lingard £30 million - £145 million

I think that’s reasonable given Kane’s age (28 in July)

I’d take that all day long, even if Kane and Grealish price tag goes up to £200 million, it’s still worth it for £50 million. Add lingard sale.

It’s seriously isn’t that laughable at all.
You’re not getting 70 million for Pogba mate he’s on a free from January
 

MichaelRed

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
685
Brexit FC in full force
 

Abraxas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
433
Kane is much better than Martial, they are leagues apart. Grealish is also better than Pogba, a more consistent player. It would be a massive boost for us if this happened but it's not very likely. It would still leave us with a hole or two in central midfield to sort out if Pogba moved on so financially it looks unviable.
 

Abraxas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
433
I would rather have Grealish than Pogba any day. Consistent week in week out, the difference between his side being very average and a good side. Doesn't give the ball away, we need a few more that value the ball. Pogba has had a reasonable season too, though.

I would also agree that the valuation of our players that is at the heart of the original premise seems way off. Nobody in their right mind is paying big money for Pogba in this market. His performances don't justify that he would be seen as a saviour that absolutely must be bought this summer. They will simply scope his agent out with a view to the free transfer, or they may try to get him this summer but not for anything like Grealish and Kane's valuation.

Martial, we are suggesting we'll get our money back - would we? What top team would want this player? We bought an exceptional talent for that money but he's coming off his worst season after years of inconsistency and he's not a youngster anymore which is easily forgotten. His value is at a pretty low ebb and the real question is where does he go because he's on big money, he ain't gonna move to a lesser side and his performance and ability do not justify that they would even want him. If we offered him up somebody would take a punt but not for much.

The truth is we'd probably be 100 million short in this exchange and we haven't even approached some of the major problems in the squad.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
2,911
I would rather have Grealish than Pogba any day. Consistent week in week out, the difference between his side being very average and a good side. Doesn't give the ball away, we need a few more that value the ball. Pogba has had a reasonable season too, though.

I would also agree that the valuation of our players that is at the heart of the original premise seems way off. Nobody in their right mind is paying big money for Pogba in this market. His performances don't justify that he would be seen as a saviour that absolutely must be bought this summer. They will simply scope his agent out with a view to the free transfer, or they may try to get him this summer but not for anything like Grealish and Kane's valuation.

Martial, we are suggesting we'll get our money back - would we? What top team would want this player? We bought an exceptional talent for that money but he's coming off his worst season after years of inconsistency and he's not a youngster anymore which is easily forgotten. His value is at a pretty low ebb and the real question is where does he go because he's on big money, he ain't gonna move to a lesser side and his performance and ability do not justify that they would even want him. If we offered him up somebody would take a punt but not for much.

The truth is we'd probably be 100 million short in this exchange and we haven't even approached some of the major problems in the squad.
I believe this is the reality of it. I do think we need better balance to our team though. Our central midfield + pogba really create problems.
 

peridigm

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
10,374
I would rather Sancho to Grealish.
This. We keep ignoring the RW every window and end up shifting players around to appease someone else on the LW.
We get a RW and we will see the end of McFred. Rashford will be played on the left so pushes Pogba back to MF for one of Fred or McTominay.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
9,309
Location
London
These aren’t even close to being our problem areas.

Get a capable (and ideally tall) DM so we can finally play Pogba in CM with Bruno in AM. Get a right footed CB that is calm and strong in the air to partner Maguire so we can finally defend set pieces (we have 2nd most conceded goals from set pieces in the league). Get a more attacking RB to complement and compete with AWB. Then consider getting a wide forward like Sancho to complement our attack.

We don’t have a striker problem since Cavani renewed, Greenwood is developing fine and Martial is also here. There’s tons of players that should leave before Pogba and Martial. Jones, Williams, Matic, Mata, James and Lingard cannot contribute to the club effectively at the moment and don’t deserve a place in a squad that aims to be competing for the title.

Pogba and Martial won’t bring the money you think they will. One is in his final year of contract and the other has had a terrible and injury-plagued season while being on a ridiculous salary for his standard. And all of that with the backdrop of covid-affected club finances.
 

Matthew84!

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
504
Anyone who thinks we're signing Kane for anything less than £150m is way off it, he's still got a long contract, he scored 30 or more goals a season plus 10 or more assists. He's English and then there is Levy.
I'm afraid it'll be way more than most people think.
Same goes for Grealish, they don't need to sell, 100m or more.
 

Sigma501

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
9
Supports
Football
Swapping out Pogba for Grealish is a no brainier. There is no way that Pogba will extend his contract and we will end up losing him twice for nothing.

let him go now, he is only playing better to put himself in the market for a new club.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
3,335
These were the players Roy Keane was saying he wanted us to sign on Sky the other week. Ultimately you'd be happy with either of them but they aren't the positions we need to address most, and in Grealish's case there isn't an obvious place for him unless he's happy sitting on the bench.

I'd still maintain the right wing is our priority attacking signing, as good as Greenwood's been. The midfield needs upgrading so we aren't as reliant on Fred and McTominay starting too.
That was the argument against signing Grealish last season, which I disagree with as he would without doubt forve his way into the starting eleven for me. Ironic many said VDB was a better fit wo what we needed....and has spent most of his time on the bench.

I think that was really poor decision making purchase wise last year if there was genuine interest in him and because of price we went for VDB.

Saying that I do agree with your latter comments, think that time has passed and where we are now, we have other priorities that coudl be costly
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
3,335
Our priority is goals and creativity, that’s what wins us the league, we are fine defensively although I do agree we could strengthen, I’d strengthen CM over DF at the minute.

Between Rashford, Bruno, Grealish and Greenwood, they would get enough game time and Kane and Grealish would subsidise Bruno’s creativity if he needs resting.

If I was pushed I’d buy Grealish by selling Pogba and waiting for maybe Haaland but I feel we must sign Kane.

I’d be a lot more hesitant to play against Grealish if I was a defender than Pogba in the final third. Yes Pogba is joining the party now but Grealish is absolutey box office.
Feel the opposite personally, improving us defensively both at centre back and in the pivot are the main priorities for me. Though I think we still need improving further forward Fernandes behind Rashford/Cavani/Greenwood will score goals. Improving our defence and midfield behind them would actually give them more confidence in what is behind them and more freedom as well as better transitions if there are better players passing wise especially behinff them in the pivot to move the ball quicker more consistently. I think improving the attack, we still have players behind that are very limited and wouldnt actualyl get in many of the better sides in the league, our forwards often still would. Of course both can be improved but I think quality wise its the defensive positons are of more urgency this summer
 

SungSam7

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
180
Location
Waterford
Re Pogba, you won't get the money he's worth and at this stage he's played well over prolonged periods, where we should consider keeping him if he wants to stay.

Martial will be near impossible to shift. Can't think of a club that would want him.
Inter Milan like to buy our rejects and make them look like world beaters.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
3,335
i love Grealish, really wanted us to sign him last summer.....BUT why if we sold Pogba would we need to sign Grealish now anyway? Rashford is still on the left, Greenwood is two footed and can play on the left, James, Elanga there are lots of other options. Pogba is obviously hugely talented but I dont see what needs replacing as w ehave elft sided players and there is little to replace in terms of him being a dm as he wasnt consitently very good there for 4/5 years.

As for Martial out Kane in.....he would cost twice if not three times the price of Martial. Obviously brings goals but in the short term Cavani. Martial, Greenwood isnt a bad three choices for one position next season, fitness/age/form permitting....how many positions can we have that same quality for as certainly not at centre back or central midfield. Martial as a second choice centre forward which he probably is now is hardly a bad thing next season for me.....after that maybe if he isnt great again we should sell him as Cavani ends his time here posibly too.

Think something like:
Pogba/Lingard for Bissouma/Kamara and Camavinga
Pogba/Lingard for Romero and Sancho

is more realistic for similar fees and what we actually need as priorities as much as I woud love to see Grealish and Kane here they are improving two positions that short term wise we dont massively need to improve, several other positions we do
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
19,172
Inter Milan like to buy our rejects and make them look like world beaters.
World beaters how? They won Serie A, which is a shite league in comparison. They crashed out of their Champions League group at 4th place and couldn't even make a Europa cut.
 

Craig Ward

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
1,949
I’m keen to learn the direction we think our squad and first 11 should take in terms of attackers. We haven’t brought any forwards in their prime since Ole started. I think Cavani highlights how valuable a proven forward with the right motivation can be.

So if we had the option of selling Pogba and Martial and replacing them with Grealish and Kane would you take it.

Let’s leave the money out of it for a bit because it should be achievable with the addition of £50 million

Possible main front four goes from this

Pogba, Martial, Greenwood, Rashford, Cavani, Bruno.

To this:

Kane, Grealish, Rashford, Cavani, Bruno, Greenwood
Well seeing as we have to play Pogba LW because he cant maintain reliable form in his actual position and Martial has proven to be a liability with his form - i'd take this without even thinking about it.

Replacing two inconsistent players with absolute proven stars.

Instantly makes us better - no questions about it.

Kane would have more chances and Grealish would offer much more creativity than we currently have.
 

Craig Ward

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
1,949
Declan Rice. Will enable us to play a midfield 3 of Pogba, Rice and Bruno, gives both Pogba and Bruno license to do what they do best and join the attack and be creative/a goal threat.

The single most important signing we can make is a proper defensive DM, who plays with discipline and is skilled in the art of defending and rapid transition of the ball.
You think Rice is good enough to play DM alone?

Not a chance in hell we play that midfield 3 unless we want to defend all game. We will play with a double pivot, like always.

Rice isn;t a bad player, but he's not better than two players. Pogba and Rice wouldnt work in a double pivot, just like Pogba and anyone doesnt work because Pogba doesnt/cant/wont defend!

It would be: Rice & Fred > Fernandes

I agree a DM is an essential signing, but signing a top DM and pairing them with Pogba is somewhat a backwards step - might as well not sign one than go that route.
 

Valencia's Left Foot

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
281
I’m keen to learn the direction we think our squad and first 11 should take in terms of attackers. We haven’t brought any forwards in their prime since Ole started. I think Cavani highlights how valuable a proven forward with the right motivation can be.

So if we had the option of selling Pogba and Martial and replacing them with Grealish and Kane would you take it.

Let’s leave the money out of it for a bit because it should be achievable with the addition of £50 million

Possible main front four goes from this

Pogba, Martial, Greenwood, Rashford, Cavani, Bruno.

To this:

Kane, Grealish, Rashford, Cavani, Bruno, Greenwood
I’m on board. I’d take Grealish over Pogba every day of the week. Just think that Jack is more consistent and versatile.
 

simonhch

Horrible boss
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
11,928
Location
Sartorial Guru
Supports
Urban Combat Preparedness
You think Rice is good enough to play DM alone?

Not a chance in hell we play that midfield 3 unless we want to defend all game. We will play with a double pivot, like always.

Rice isn;t a bad player, but he's not better than two players. Pogba and Rice wouldnt work in a double pivot, just like Pogba and anyone doesnt work because Pogba doesnt/cant/wont defend!

It would be: Rice & Fred > Fernandes

I agree a DM is an essential signing, but signing a top DM and pairing them with Pogba is somewhat a backwards step - might as well not sign one than go that route.
It is a double pivot, with Pogba as the second pivot. But Rice’s defensive discipline encanales Pogba to be more expressive and move forwards more IMO. It doesn’t mean he is devoid of defensive responsibility, but I see it as being much more complimentary to his skill set. It’s also unrated how much pressing and defensive work can be done further up the field through Fernandes.

Pogba, despite common opinion, can get through a decent amount of work in CM, which remains his best position by far. Pairing him with someone disciplined, is always a good look, especially when that person is mobile.

Last point I will make is that there will rarely be a set first eleven. We will play different personnel according to opposition, circumstances etc. What Rice would give us is a defensively astute and skilled CM to compliment the others we have. Something which doesn’t exist in our squad. McTominay and Fred are 8s, shoehorned to be 6s. Bruno a 10. In a 3 man midfield you always have a 6, 8 and 10, what changes is the configuration. Is it a triangle - with the 6 and 8 sitting behind the 10 - or an inverse triangle with the 6 sitting behind the 8 and 10. Under Ole we’ll always play a traditional triangle I.e. double pivot, but the characteristics of the players is what can change, and that is my point.

Right now we have two 8s sitting behind a 10. In big matches you have to change it to two workaholic 8s to make up for the lack of a true 6. Hence we get McFred, and put Pogba further up. This still leaves us with pockets between the midfield and defence in dangerous areas and is why we can get exposed against tactically astute teams.

When we move to having a 6 and 8, Pogba can happily be that 8. He has an engine, and will get through the sort of work you’d expect of someone in that position, not like a Kante, but more like a Kroos. You need the Casameiros, Fernandinhos, Fabinhos, Makalele’s and Busquets of this world. As we need our Rice. And no I am not saying he is as good as them, just that he fills that role, whether the 8 sits alongside him or further up. The system is almost irrelevant to the argument.

People will argue that was what Matic was supposed to do, and for a brief period he did, but he doesn’t have the mobility or stamina at this stage of his career to play like that in the modern game. A Rice, Pogba, Fernandes midfield would be exceptional, and in my opinion would be perfectly balanced. A club of our size should be front foot forward, and there is nothing about that line up that seems defensively suspect to me. Maybe in the biggest games you switch your 8 to Fred to provide the extra work rate, but I really don’t see it as necessary.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
3,335
I’m on board. I’d take Grealish over Pogba every day of the week. Just think that Jack is more consistent and versatile.
I totally agree. Funny how last summer, many thought he wasnt even good enough for us and was way over priced....instead we signed VDB

I am torn now though, I really wanted us to sign him last summer....but despite him being versatile, what we need now isnt to massively improve the depth of our squad, its quality in key positions in the starting eleven.....not shoehorning players outside of there best positons in positions we dont need. He is such a good player though that has been criminally under rated for many years, by England too, for me if fit and form is there, he is definately in our starting eleven at the Euros for me....he is just perfectg for International football
 

Artorias

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
182
Location
Manchester
I totally agree. Funny how last summer, many thought he wasnt even good enough for us and was way over priced....instead we signed VDB

I am torn now though, I really wanted us to sign him last summer....but despite him being versatile, what we need now isnt to massively improve the depth of our squad, its quality in key positions in the starting eleven.....not shoehorning players outside of there best positons in positions we dont need. He is such a good player though that has been criminally under rated for many years, by England too, for me if fit and form is there, he is definately in our starting eleven at the Euros for me....he is just perfectg for International football
Me too. Just sell Pogba and buy Grealish (and maybe loan VDB to them too).
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
3,335
Me too. Just sell Pogba and buy Grealish (and maybe loan VDB to them too).
Personally more inclined to sell Pogba, buy Sancho now with what we have. But Grealish is so good....I do think if he was here he would start over Rashford and personally would start over Fernandes. His ability to carry the ball is so unique in our league and bar the injuries recently and a two month spell he has been consistetly excellent since he has been in the premiership and before in the championship.

Not wanting to criticise Fernandes, his attitude, work rate and decisive moments are all top qualtiy, let alone the effect he has had on the side as a whole. But if we take away the rose tinted glasses, his consistency of quality in a game is actually low, many moments of giving the ball away....unlike others in the side, that is forgotten though with the positive things he brings.

We never should have bought VDB, was poor business for me for £35m when Grealish for twice the price as other have mentioned, would have covered all the attckign positions, not jsut that of Fernandes like VDB does. I dont htink he is bad, just £35m for a squad player, isnt actually great business and he wont want to be on either. Grealish would never have been a squad player, though many hinted at that last summer
 

VidaRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
25,199
where does he play though?? we dont need another LM....we need central midfielders
Play him at left wing and rashford behind cavani or at right wing if greenwood doesn't play there or we dont get sancho.
 

Trequarista10

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Messages
342
I honestly think Kane and Grealish will have priced themselves out of moves by signing their contracts, unless they negotiated a release clause.

Think the transfer sagas will drag on and on all summer and amount to nothing. Obviously clubs would have them, but I don't think any club would be so desperate for them that they would fold at the last minute and pay whatever ridiculous sum is demanded.

Baffles me that players still don't realise they are in the position of power when negotiating contract extentions, and don't demand a release clause, giving them considerably more control and freedom to choose where they play.