Greece Vs EU

[Stanley Road]

That's strange considering that Brexit Britain's main plan is to turn the country into a tax haven and make a success out of it

This isn't the brexit thread but in there I have said to attract businesses this is what they should do but.......if they set favourable tax rates then that money must be collected in full.

Great article on Jean Claud Junk today and his tax avoidance promoting, scum of the earth that is but I expect no less in the eu.

 

[Stanley Road]

Yet the vast majority of tax monies in any exchequer come from "the rich". In Ireland you have 80% of the income from tax coming from 20% of the population. I imagine the stats are similar in Greece

That does not mean they have paid all the tax they should have, it does not mean they pay 40% tax on all earnings like I do.

 

[devilish]

This isn't the brexit thread but in there I have said to attract businesses this is what they should do but.......if they set favourable tax rates then that money must be collected in full.

Great article on Jean Claud Junk today and his tax avoidance promoting, scum of the earth that is but I expect no less in the eu.

The problem with countries is that you'll always find some scum who'll offer a lower tax rate to attract business to their country. That's irrespective on whether a country is in the EU or not.

I also wonder who had done most damage to the human race between Luxembourg and lets say the British empire.

 

[sun_tzu]

The problem with countries is that you'll always find some scum who'll offer a lower tax rate to attract business to their country.

Like Malta?


Companies are chargeable to tax in Malta at a rate of 35% (no tax is levied at the provincial or municipal levels). However, the application of the participation exemption, full imputation system and refund system typically result in an effective Malta tax rate of approximately 0% to 5%.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/d...51JJWX9Za8H8uazqQ&sig2=RiqgmyXqIOSHmwlG1B5E8A

 

[devilish]

Like Malta?


Companies are chargeable to tax in Malta at a rate of 35% (no tax is levied at the provincial or municipal levels). However, the application of the participation exemption, full imputation system and refund system typically result in an effective Malta tax rate of approximately 0% to 5%.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/d...51JJWX9Za8H8uazqQ&sig2=RiqgmyXqIOSHmwlG1B5E8A

that's another legacy of British colonialism....the mentality (and the language). I am aware that there's plenty of Maltese sharks circling around London's financial services eager to pinch some of them to the rock.

TBF there's barely any local homeless people in Malta, which is an achievement considering its a young republic and a former colony who was once one of the poorest countries in Europe and in the commonwealth + it doesn't topple countries or arm regimes. Can you say the same about the UK?

 

[Mozza]

Yet the vast majority of tax monies in any exchequer come from "the rich". In Ireland you have 80% of the income from tax coming from 20% of the population. I imagine the stats are similar in Greece. Seems harsh that people who have given their country so much money over the years should be demonised for attempting to try and keep a little more of the money they've earned, providing they adhere to whatever rules/regs the government have in place.

That's because they have all the money and for that reason I have no sympathy

 

[Mozza]

Austerity is the only tool the eurzone has as they have no currency to devalue then they must devalue from within, drive out costs and reduce wages to make products competitive, its the way of the neoliberalist disease. Then they can offer those products to other eu members that also have no money.

Debt write off

 

[barros]

Do you come from a Southern European country?

I come from one and I assure you that he's speaking bollocks. If VAT is reduced to 2% most would still not pay it. They simply hate paying taxes

You are right.

Look to Portugal, Italy, France and Spain (well France is not south of Europe but because they have about 1 million of Portuguese and their descendants )

 

[Stanley Road]

I also wonder who had done most damage to the human race between Luxembourg and lets say the British empire.

This is the underlying tone of all your posts in this thread

 

[Stanley Road]

Debt write off

If only

 

[devilish]

This is the underlying tone of all your posts in this thread

Not really, no

Im critical to anything i believe it should be criticised about include the very region i come from.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's because they have all the money and for that reason I have no sympathy

a) they don't have "all the money"
b) nobody is looking for sympathy
c) my point was that all top rate tax payers have paid a frigging fortune in tax over the course of their careers. If they're taking steps to make their annual tax bills slightly less punitive than they so be it. No need for sour grapes.

 

[Stanley Road]

Not really, no

Im critical to anything i believe it should be criticised about include the very region i come from.

Give over, your bitterness is undeniable

 

[Stanley Road]

c) my point was that all top rate tax payers have paid a frigging fortune in tax over the course of their careers. If they're taking steps to make their annual tax bills slightly less punitive than they so be it. No need for sour grapes.

What % of their total income is that?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What % of their total income is that?

You want me to look up tax rates for the whole of Europe? I think "a frigging fortune" covers it.

 

[devilish]

Give over, your bitterness is undeniable

To what? The uk whom i like enough that i pay most my taxes there? To southern europe or to malta? All got their fair share of bashing in this very thread

 

[Stanley Road]

You want me to look up tax rates for the whole of Europe? I think "a frigging fortune" covers it.

Well my 40% des not equate to much compared to anothers 1%, so its totally relevant to the argument.

 

[Stanley Road]

To what? The uk whom i like enough that i pay most my taxes there? To southern europe or to malta? All got their fair share of bashing in this very thread

I did a search for 'empire' and devilish in this forum and got 3 pages of results.

 

[devilish]

I did a search for 'empire' and devilish in this forum and got 3 pages of results.

I love history, politics and star wars

 

[Mozza]

a) they don't have "all the money"
b) nobody is looking for sympathy
c) my point was that all top rate tax payers have paid a frigging fortune in tax over the course of their careers. If they're taking steps to make their annual tax bills slightly less punitive than they so be it. No need for sour grapes.

They have most the money. Tax isn't a punishment. I'll eat the sour grapes, now pay your fecking taxes

 

[Sweet Square]

Do you come from a Southern European country?

I come from one and I assure you that he's speaking bollocks. If VAT is reduced to 2% most would still not pay it. They simply hate paying taxes

I'm not but I do come from a small european country which has its fair share of stereotypes(Ireland)so I'm always very skeptical when people talk the problems of Greece being not problems of policy but problems of the Greek character. As if Greece would be fine if you know it wasn't full of Greeks, its nasty stuff.

The amount of shite the Greek people have and are going through, they should get the absolute respect of every European.

 

[devilish]

I'm not but I do come from a small european country which has its fair share of stereotypes(Ireland)so I'm always very skeptical when people talk the problems of Greece being not problems of policy but problems of the Greek character. As if Greece would be fine if you know it wasn't full of Greeks, its nasty stuff.

The amount of shite the Greek people have and are going, they should get the absolute respect of every European.

I suspect that its a problem about policy and culture ie people hate paying taxes and governments tend to appease them to avoid risking losing votes. I am Southern European same as @barros is and we both assure you that tax evasion is a problem in most South Europe.

Back in the 90s Malta was lead by its best Prime minister ever. The man modernized the country, the economy was doing very well, there were near zilc unemployment rate and people absolutely loved him. This man is a frigging icon both main parties adore (a bit like Churchill).

His competition at the day was a bit like Corbyn, a person people just love to hate. There was absolutely zero chance of eddie losing the next general elections. Unfortunately for the old fox introduced VAT and voila he lost the next general election. Competition won the election purely by saying that once in government it would abolish VAT. Unfortunately for us the man was as competent as Corbyn was and fortunately for us it took only 2 years before his government went tits up and good old Eddie Fenech Adami returned to power. That gives you an idea of how people down South hate taxes especially indirect taxes such as VAT.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They have most the money. Tax isn't a punishment. I'll eat the sour grapes, now pay your fecking taxes

They do. Which is my point. They pay more fecking taxes than anyon else. By a margin.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well my 40% des not equate to much compared to anothers 1%, so its totally relevant to the argument.

I've never met anyon who pays 1% tax on their earnings. Or anything even close. I'd be amazed if that's legally possible.

 

[Sweet Square]

I suspect that its a problem about policy and culture ie people hate paying taxes and governments tend to appease them to avoid risking losing votes. I am Southern European same as @barros is and we both assure you that tax evasion is a problem in most South Europe.

Back in the 90s Malta was lead by its best Prime minister ever. The man modernized the country, the economy was doing very well, there were near zilc unemployment rate and people absolutely loved him. This man is a frigging icon both main parties adore (a bit like Churchill).

His competition at the day was a bit like Corbyn, a person people just love to hate. There was absolutely zero chance of eddie losing the next general elections. Unfortunately for the old fox introduced VAT and voila he lost the next general election. Competition won the election purely by saying that once in government it would abolish VAT. Unfortunately for us the man was as competent as Corbyn was and fortunately for us it took only 2 years before his government went tits up and good old Eddie Fenech Adami returned to power. That gives you an idea of how people down South hate taxes especially indirect taxes such as VAT.

I've no idea on the economic and political status of Mata in the 90's but was it comparable to Greece today ? It seems incredibly unlikely.

Thats not to say there's no problem at all(Although simply paying taxes would not of stop the chaos that was brought onto Greece), but the talk of culture and the idea ''Greece is sadly what is killing Greece'', that it is something in inherent problem of the Greek people, completely misses the policy aspect(Not to mentioned brings bigotry). We can if we wanted blame American citizens and their culture of home ownership in the US for the collapse in 08 but that's completely unfair and misses out the policy reasons of the last 30 odd years that gave the us that crash.

 

[Stanley Road]

I've never met anyon who pays 1% tax on their earnings. Or anything even close. I'd be amazed if that's legally possible.

Right, so you haven't read the Junk article in the guardian?

You believe someone in the 60% tax rate pays exactly that?

Do you remember the Liam Brady story of him taking 4p home on the pound but actually paid feck all?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Right, so you haven't read the Junk article in the guardian?

You believe someone in the 60% tax rate pays exactly that?

Do you remember the Liam Brady story of him taking 4p home on the pound but actually paid feck all?

Don't really care about anecdotes. If any cheeky cnut really has found a way to pay single digit tax on their earnings I'd be amazed if it's legal. The vast majority of high earners pay staggering amounts of tax over the course of their careers and are not even close to a problem for any economy. The exact opposite, in fact.

 

[carvajal]

I understand the problem with taxes and I think that is not going to change.Here in Spain the minimum salary is in 700 euros.I wonder how much is in the north of Europe?.I guess that in Portugal or Greece is even less.
Many employers pay a % of the wages in black because they can't afford to pay to the state for the full salary.
With 850-900 euros/month is very difficult to live with the euro and then you see that the state is the bigger thief with every Major trying to steal , so you have the feeling "only the dumb is not with black income"

 

[Stanley Road]

Don't really care about anecdotes. If any cheeky cnut really has found a way to pay single digit tax on their earnings I'd be amazed if it's legal. The vast majority of high earners pay staggering amounts of tax over the course of their careers and are not even close to a problem for any economy. The exact opposite, in fact.

Yes they are as they could owe billions in taxes collectively. Greek person goes to work in an office, gets his payslip Gross / Net, how can he not pay the full amount of tax?

I don't believe that you yourself believe that any businessman earning a decent amount doesn't employ a good accountant to avoid tax. That's why its important to know the % people paid.

So 344b is missing in tax revenue in Germany, the people responsible for that amount may also be the highest contributors to tax amount, that's the point.

 

[Stanley Road]

Many employers pay a % of the wages in black because they can't afford to pay to the state for the full salary.
With 850-900 euros/month is very difficult to live with the euro and then you see that the state is the bigger thief with every Major trying to steal , so you have the feeling "only the dumb is not with black income"

I'd imagine this is pretty much the case, and this reflects to the income of the government. The euro has turned some countries into Banana Republics.

 

[sun_tzu]

I don't believe that you yourself believe that any businessman earning a decent amount doesn't employ a good accountant to avoid tax.

OK firstly the main reason one retains the services of an accountant is to do the accounts... part of their advise will naturally relate to the best / most efficient legal structure for a business... in my case I have a legal responsibility to my shareholders to maximise sustainable returns... it's not tax evasion it's fulfilling the legal requirements I have in managing a business.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes they are as they could owe billions in taxes collectively. Greek person goes to work in an office, gets his payslip Gross / Net, how can he not pay the full amount of tax?

I don't believe that you yourself believe that any businessman earning a decent amount doesn't employ a good accountant to avoid tax. That's why its important to know the % people paid.

So 344b is missing in tax revenue in Germany, the people responsible for that amount may also be the highest contributors to tax amount, that's the point.

Corporations are more than likely the biggest culprits when it comes to tax evasion. I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about individuals. Any individual who has gone through his/her life taking very little from the state while paying tens of thousands every year in tax has done a lot for their country (more than a lot of other individuals, many of whom bellyache about how the "rich" should bear even more of the burden of keeping the economy afloat) whether or not they hire an accountant to find ways to avoid being crucified by the tax man each year.

This is an issue that really pisses me off, personally, as someone who has always been taxed at source and has probably funded at least one fecking ward of a hospital - all on my own - with the amount of my income extorted by the government over the last 20 years. No cnut is going to tell me I'm damaging the economy if I choose to invest in legitimate tax avoidance schemes put in place by the government to encourage private investment in areas of they economy they think needs a stimulus. This is, of course, not even close to keeping total tax paid at <10%. All of these schemes can only ever offer is a small refund on whatever bit of your salary is being taxed at the top rate (40% in Ireland)

 

[Mozza]

They do. Which is my point. They pay more fecking taxes than anyon else. By a margin.

Not as much as they should given how much they have

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not as much as they should given how much they have

In your opinion. Smacks of jealousy tbh. How much do you think anyone should be "allowed" to take home in any given year? (so the government can piss most of the rest of their income up the wall)

 

[Mozza]

In your opinion. Smacks of jealousy tbh. How much do you think anyone should be "allowed" to take home in any given year? (so the government can piss most of the rest of their income up the wall)

Whatever they earn less 40% above the tax free allowance

You're sounding a little irrational about government spending

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Whatever they earn less 40% above the tax free allowance

You're sounding a little irrational about government spending

You think I'm unfair about government spending? I've worked in the public and private sector. The inefficiencies of the former would make you weep.

 

[Mozza]

You think I'm unfair about government spending? I've worked in the public and private sector. The inefficiencies of the former would make you weep.

Government spends money, it circulates, it creates demand.

 

[JPRouve]

Government spends money, it circulates, it creates demand.

That's the mistake made by politicians, the Governement is supposed to invest not just spend.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Government spends money, it circulates, it creates demand.

If inefficient spending for the sake of spending is the best they can do with my hard-earned then they might as well leave it all in the hands of my wife.

 

[Mozza]

That's the mistake made by politicians, the Governement is supposed to invest not just spend.

Some spent. Some invested. No need to be pedantic