If he isn't very good at dribbling or taking players on, and relies on having space to run into, we may as well drop him and go for Mane, seeing as most of the time our forwards have hardly any space to exploit in behind the defensive line anyway.
Griezmann or Aubameyang?
- Thread starter Mciahel Goodman
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I agree, I wasn't meaning to suggest Griezmann was a traditional #10, I was just asking how he came to the conclusion that we don't need one as it's not a position I feel we have covered in our squad and the "We don't need another #10" is actually something I see posted on here quite often.
I don't think he relies on having space to run into, he can peel off the shoulder and make the yard needed to get in under tight circumstances, he's not a Walcott type. He also offers at least twice the goal threat of Mane which is important since our only proven goal scorer is over the hill.
We definitely need a number 10. The main question is what type of number 10. Do we need the Ozil/De Bruyne type number 10 who can make the attack click and is a creative force, or an attacker who will make the difference in the scoreline and win games, like Griezmann.
The problem is that our attack lacks so much it's hard to figure out what the hierarchy of priorities exactly should be. I'd probably prefer a number 10 in the first category more if I'm being honest. I'm a little tired of seeing so many of our players play a pass and get into the box expecting someone else to create, which ends up with us having loads of attackers well marked and in striking positions and the poor midfielder with nothing to do but just wait for a better scenario. But the again, there's not really a player like that who is available that I can think of. Greizmann is brilliant, is a United fan apparently and is one of the best in his age group, so obviously I'd be absolutely delighted if we got him. But we should look for a playmaking attacker even if he plays out wide and comes inside.
Our eyetest results are obviously very different. Good things the stats on Griezmann back up my initial impression. He scores more goals than Mane because he plays as a second striker whereas Mane is used out wide, he also plays for a vastly superior team. How can you know what suits LVG's demands? He's made it clear he wants a player with Speed and creativity which Aubameyang has.
Please be so kind and link me to said video.
No.
If Griezmann was put out onto the wing for Southampton I have a sneaky feeling his goals might dry up a bit.
Watch his movements. In nearly all of the goals he peeled off his marker in a split second to fashion that yard of space for him to shoot/head the ball. And there are the counter goals when he rushed forward with the ball.
last season he got 6 assists, Griezmann got 1, the season before that he got 1 more than Griezmann despite playing 10 games less. If Griezmann's output in considered creative then Aubameyang easily is.
That video (like all the others) just proves my point. Excellent movement in the box and 1 touch finishing isn't speed and creativity. He leaves nobody in the dust and we don't need a 2nd striker.
Aubameyang is not very creative but those stats for Griezmann are a bit shocking. 1 assist last season? Didn't expect that.
Wouldn't Griezmann pretty much kick Memphis out of the side for good? I have the impression that he's basically an upgrade on Memphis, similar player in my opinion. Out wide he looked like a left sided wide forward with excellent movement and great finishing, but he's not a dribbler, a creator, a playmaker. Ideally he's a free roaming 2nd striker, which is what van Gaal sees as Memphis' best position. There's also the problem that Martial loves to play in that same left sided channel. You probably can get 2 of them play well together, alternating their runs and switching positions temporarily. But three?
Auba isn't necessarily what United need the most at the moment either, but he's a natural fit to the team and offers something entirely different to Martial and Memphis. He often drops to the right, he runs that right channel with pace on the counter and would drag defenders away from the middle, if Martial cuts in from the left.
But more than anything United should look for someone who can play the role Di Maria was supposed to play. That's the player the team is missing more than anything and Griezmann is nothing like that.
Auba isn't necessarily what United need the most at the moment either, but he's a natural fit to the team and offers something entirely different to Martial and Memphis. He often drops to the right, he runs that right channel with pace on the counter and would drag defenders away from the middle, if Martial cuts in from the left.
But more than anything United should look for someone who can play the role Di Maria was supposed to play. That's the player the team is missing more than anything and Griezmann is nothing like that.
You don't need to literally leave the players on their backsides to get the job done. He was faster than his marker when it counted, that's plenty fast enough. Also, he is no slouch in carrying the ball between the lines. To say he has no pace is a huge exaggeration.
Griezmann
I'd love us to have an oldschool #10 as well but there aren't that many on the market right now, we missed our best chance for one when we showed zero interest in De Bryune. For the playmaking attacker that plays out wide I really like the potential of Sane, I know more potential is not exactly what we need but he really does seem to fit the mold of what LvG has been saying he wants.
The stats are worthless as stats tell us Wayne Rooney is one of the fastest players in the PL and stats cover the fact that Mata spends many a game being invisible. Well LvG has said he likes a striker that plays as a focal point for the attack and will accept minimal touches and keep pressure on the CB's, that is not Auba's style at all.
Are you saying that we would get 20 goals out of Mane is we played him as a second striker behind Martial?
Yeah I've been saying he could be a good idea (sane) in his thread. Looks a proper talent.
I agree Auba isn't very creative but I would say the same about Griezmann which is why I made the comparison.
Inzaghi was faster than his marker, so was Linekar, they made career's out of it but neither of them would be classified as having pace. If you want to keep using your own personal definition of what pace is then fine but then about 80% of attacking players in the league could be considered as having it.
I'm saying Griezmann wouldn't get 20 playing on the wing for Southampton, might still get his 1 assist though.
Just out of curiosity which thread was it? Haven't seen it but in this one there's no one who agrees with you. He's not Walcott or Navas but to say he has no pace is just bizarre.
Griezmann isn't Ronaldo or Bale type fast, but to say he has no pace...
I think the idea is to play Griezmann instead of Rooney. Martial as main striker, Memphis in left wing while Mata on the right wing. Of course, all four players might interchange their position.
To the poster who says that Griezmann isn't fast, that is bonkers. Sure, he isn't Aubameyang in that asepct, but Griezmann has plenty of pace.
That just wouldn't work. A trio of Mata/Memphis/Griezmann would just be three attackers whose best attribute is their off the ball movement and finishing with nobody to create and carry the ball for them.
Mata creates chances (or at least used to do it on functional teams). Memphis should also develop into a player who can run with the ball.
Good point. Even if we did sign Greizmann we would still need to get some dribbling and playmaking ability in. No doubt about that. The point regarding players who like to operate on the left channel is an interesting one. The issue with Memphis is that we need to give him game time but IMO he doesn't look ready to be our only left sided option. You can't have Ashley young as the alternative to Memphis. There has to be one reliable played on that flank even if your striker likes to drift off that side.
I went for aubameyang because even if spending that much on a striker wouldn't be ideal given our needs elsewhere he's the kind of player who with his blistering pace (and finishing) would change the dynamic quite a bit. Having both him and Martial running making runs in behind defences off the left and right channels could be absolutely devastating somewhat like what Suarez and Sturridge did with two big striking threats . That would create a lot space for the playmakers/attacking midfielders to exploit.
This would be my slight reservation regarding Griezmann. Mata would probably have to make way. There's only so many "second striker" type attackers who are neither centre forwards nor great dribblers that you can have. I'd let Mata go happily though. Griezmann is excellent at what he does.
That Chelsea team was very far from functional. The revolving door allowed Chelsea to play as 'loose' as they pleased, and as a result Mata would have all the ability to influence the final third. That's great, but under tactically-heavy managers (van Gaal, Mourinho) he often leaves a lot to be desired. I've always held the view that Juan Mata has a bit of a myth surrounding him - a small Spanish footballer must be creative, etc. but in reality he's far more of a finisher than a creator - but that's for another thread.
I don't think Memphis will become that sort of player, too. If he does hit the heights we expected him to, he's stylistically far more akin to somebody like Hulk, as opposed to a winger with real pace to stretch defenders wide.
In the Mane thread, the Griezmann thread or the Mane vs Griezmann thread.
The defence of "he's not as fast as Mane, or Bale, or Auba or Walcott or Hazard or Neymar or Navas or Robben or Costa or Sanchez " isn't much of a defence. I could name another 20 forwards who also have more pace than him. Just because he isn't Mata slow also doesn't mean he has pace. Our front line doesn't need another forward who likes the ball into feet but offers no penetration or the ability to beat a player. Griezmann on his own may be a better player than some of the names listed above but not for what we need.
Honestly couldn't find any posts like that. Maybe the thread got deleted? Do you have links? I have only seen one person say Griezmann doesn't have any pace. That's not even a minority mate. That's smaller than a minority. That's a singular.
The first person we need to sign is Guardiola and his style of play would suit Griezmann's and Auba's a lot better than LVG.
Griezmann's top speed is probably far from the fastest players around, but he kills most of them with his quickness and his technique in movement.
Indeed.
Griezmann is a lot like Müller, who is one of LvGs absolute favorite players.
Griez or Auba - I vote for Auba, but thats because I like prolific goal scorers and Auba is at the absolute peak of his powers, who will score goals without excuses.
He should not need to rely on someone else to score the goals, otherwise what's the point?
The issue isn't his ability but more his age. Someone in another thread stated that he will be ready to lead our attack in 2 years and I agree with this.
The excuse of "having other good players around him" is wearing thin.
Rooney/Mata/Martial fans are all using this same excuse, meanwhile we struggle to score goals.
At some point an attacker needs to grab the bull by the horns and say "enough is enough", I'm going to score goals and boss the game. In their prime, Shearer, RvN, RvP, etc would all have scored in today's (West Ham) game.
Mata is too slow.
Rooney is too old.
Martial is too young.
Memphis is too new to the EPL.
Lingard has too little experience in the EPL.
Every attacker has an excuse.
We need to buy a player who is going to deliver results and not make excuses for not scoring goals. Every attacker we have seems to have an excuse for not scoring a goal.
The No.9 for MUFC should be a prolific goal scorer and right now Martial is not prolific.
He should not need to rely on someone else to score the goals, otherwise what's the point?
The issue isn't his ability but more his age. Someone in another thread stated that he will be ready to lead our attack in 2 years and I agree with this.
The excuse of "having other good players around him" is wearing thin.
Rooney/Mata/Martial fans are all using this same excuse, meanwhile we struggle to score goals.
At some point an attacker needs to grab the bull by the horns and say "enough is enough", I'm going to score goals and boss the game. In their prime, Shearer, RvN, RvP, etc would all have scored in today's (West Ham) game.
Mata is too slow.
Rooney is too old.
Martial is too young.
Memphis is too new to the EPL.
Lingard has too little experience in the EPL.
Every attacker has an excuse.
We need to buy a player who is going to deliver results and not make excuses for not scoring goals. Every attacker we have seems to have an excuse for not scoring a goal.
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both
Nice video.
He is not the fastest player, but somehow he manages to consistently drop his marker. It must be very frustrating for a defender, when he does that time and time again.
Clearly a very clever/intelligent player, which LVG values highly.
Beggars can't be choosers. Either will do.
There's multiple thread on Mane/Griezmann/Auba etc. I'm not going to go looking through them all to find posts for you, look through my posting history all you want and find them.
It's not singular when you have completely changed the definition of what pace is, if you can't go past defenders or challenge the space in behind you don't have it, end of discussion. I'd challenge you to name players with pace who don't have those attributes. All the best clubs in Europe have at least 1 player with genuine pace but most have multiple, this is what we lack.
Perfectly illustrating my point. Makes no sense to say he's far from the fastest players around but kills defenders with his quickness. You're basically saying he doesn't have pace but has other attributes that make up for it. As for his creative abilities 1 assist in an entire season is pathetic, even Rooney does much more than that.
By your definition Griezmann has loads of pace. He's excels at one twos.
No, he has pace like Suarez has pace. None of them are going to participate to the Olympics but they can outrun most attackers and they can do it with the ball close to their feet.
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It depends which one wants to ruin their own career playing under such a negative manager.
No he doesn't otherwise he would have tons of goals from 1v1 situations and he has barely any, Mata has more. Constantly shifting the goalposts just makes your argument look weaker.
He's not on the same level of pace as Suarez and his dribbling ability isn't even on the same planet. Takes on per game Griezmann 0.8 Suarez 2.3, that's a shocking difference. Caught offisde per game Griezmann 0.5 Suarez 1.3. Fouled per game Griezmann 1 Suarez 2.1. Suarez along with players like Aguero/Neymar/Suarez all rank highly in these sort of stats because they can beat a player and challenge space, Griezmann is miles off them and the stats back this up.
Infact he's not on the same level as Suarez in almost any aspect of creativity and he's supposed to be a 10, assists last 2 seasons Griezmann 4 Suarez 29. Key passes per game Griezmann 1.1 Suarez 2.1
Comparing those 2 is just a new level of delusion regarding Griezmann.
They're both very talented. Although, I think Griezmann is younger and therefore, van Gaal would probably find it easier to remove all attacking capabilities. However, as seen with di Maria, you can still ruin attacking talents in their prime, so Aubameyang still stands a chance for a quick decline.
I guess it's down to whoever wants to ruin their career first.
I guess it's down to whoever wants to ruin their career first.
Griezmann for me, so much quality. This front four has enough pace and technique to worry any team and they can interchange with ease.
-----------Martial
--Depay Griezmann Januzaj
-----Herrera Schneiderlin
Shaw Laporte Smalling Darmian
-----------De Gea
Get Laporte and rid of Van Gaal and Rooney, I'll be tugging.
-----------Martial
--Depay Griezmann Januzaj
-----Herrera Schneiderlin
Shaw Laporte Smalling Darmian
-----------De Gea
Get Laporte and rid of Van Gaal and Rooney, I'll be tugging.
There's only one person who's shifting his goal posts here and its not me. You said Griezmann doesn't have any pace. There is no one in here who agrees with you. You say plenty of people backed up your claim in another thread yet you provide no evidence. Its your word against the world as of now.