Group F (Germany, Mexico, Sweden, South Korea)

[PedroMendez]

I'd probably try a 343ish formation with Reus Werner Müller as the 3 forwards and Süle as the 3rd centerback. I trust those 3 at the back to figure out themselves how to cover the wingbacks more than I trust Löw to find a balanced formation. Kroos is obviously a certain starter in midfield, probably don't mind Khedira if he doesn't have to play a disciplined DM role, because he simply can't do that. He never had the discipline or the skills to read the game well enough to give a midfield 2 balance. But if he's free to go box to box he's maybe still the best partner for Kroos. Don't care if Gündogan plays instead of him though.

Müller's performances don't really warrant a start either, but I think if he finds his world cup form, we'll be fine. If he doesn't, not sure any of the other options is good enough to help us win the tournament anyway. Özil and Draxler shouldn't start. Reus has to. Don't think anything like that will happen though.

imo:
Reus - Werner - Müller
Kroos - Gündogan/Khedira - Khedira/Goretzka
back 5

The team needs another midfielder. Gündogan played a couple of times as holding midfielder for City. He is hardly ideal, but Rudy isn't good enough and Kroos would need to step up in terms of defensive intensitity to make it work. If Löw refuses to change his 4231, he should go with:

Werner
Reus/Brandt - Müller - Brandt/Reus
Kroos - Khedira
back5

So far only Boateng and Neuer convinced me. Hummels, Khedira and Müller need to get their shit together. All talk about tactics aside, all three were pretty abysmal.

 

[do.ob]

Sweden is a different Mannschaft than Mexico though, so it doesn't necessarily make sense to line up die Mannschaft like it is a return fixture against Mexico.

With their three points you'd expect them to play even more defensively and with far less men committed to counter attacks and less intense pressing than El Tri.

A 2man midfield might actually work here and Özil should be more useful to break their defense than Müller.

I think I'd go with Gündogan for Khedira, tell Kroos to stay the feck back and Reus for Draxler or Müller.

 

[R.N7]

South Korea is a really poor side, it’s a shame Sweden’s attack is so gash. Berg and Toivonen is defintely one of the poorest strike forces in the tournament, and there’s no real flair player or different option to sub on. Kiese Thelin and Guidetti is just more of the same.

 

[Zehner]

Either

----------------Werner-----------------
--Brandt--------Reus---------- Özil---
------------Kroos-Khedira/Gündo-----

or

-----Reus-----Werner---Özil-----
-----------Kroos--Khedira---------
-------------Gündogan------------

or

----Reus-----Werner---Müller/Brandt--
------------Kroos-----Özil-------------
--------------Gündogan-------------

or

----------Werner-Reus-----------
-Hector---Özil---Kroos---Kimmich-
------------Gündogan------------
------Süle----Hummels--Boateng-

is fine for me. We desperately need an alternative for Müller on the right, though, since Brandt is better on the left (as he showed yesterday), preferably a left footed player. This could've been Sane's role (also the left winger in a 3-5-2).

Disagree with the Özil critcism, he played his part and had many space opening passes. He will never be and never was a player who created things on his own through tackles, long shots or dribblings in static situations but he does what he is supposed to do and he is amazing at it.
But my learnings from the first game:

-Reus has to play.
-Müller should definitely be benched.
-Draxler is not good enough to start.
-Brandt deserves more chances.
-We should play a formation that suits our possession approach better than a 4-2-3-1 (which was never played by great possession teams).
-We lose too many easy balls.
-We need to be more patient in the final third.
-Our transition game from offense to defense isn't good.

 

[Piratesoup]

Gotta say, it feels like we're fecked.

 

[jimorrison]

according to Mexican national team coach, several of Mexico's players played vs Germany with the flu, that some players contracted in Russia due to the cold weather, which only makes Mexico's win even more impressive if true. he also explained that was one of the main reasons for the substitutions he made through out the match.

link : https://lospleyers.com/rusia-2018/jugadores-seleccion-mexicana-enfermos-gripe-alemania/

 

[Acheron]

according to Mexican national team coach, several of Mexico's players played vs Germany with the flu, that some players contracted in Russia due to the cold weather, which only makes Mexico's win even more impressive if true. he also explained that was one of the main reasons for the substitutions he made through out the match.

link : https://lospleyers.com/rusia-2018/jugadores-seleccion-mexicana-enfermos-gripe-alemania/

Yeah, it makes some sense now.

I remember thinking it was very odd (almost suicidal) subbing out Vela and then Lozano, as I thought they were putting a great shift for Mexico. I've seen Vela when he played in Spain a lot, and Lozano apparently had an outstanding season in Eredivise, but the most impressive thing about their gameplay until coming out was how they were both tracking back while also attacking with a lot of pace in counter attacks.

In second half Chicharito played a bad pass into Vela and he still tried to reach that ball but he looked exhausted, and I guess Lozano was also very tired at that point as they had been very active attacking and defending. Vela had also been absent playing the last friendly before the World Cup and people were theorizing Osorio was resting him as he was going to be a key player for him but now it makes more sense he was resting him if caught the flu, he now lives in LA so it must quite the change, lol.

So yeah, their pace and work rate was impressive against Germany, think that has been my favorite game along with Spain vs Portugal.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Gotta say, it feels like we're fecked.

Sweden winning was horrible for our chances of going through and even topping the group. Hope Korea can take some points of Mexico and we win bought our remaining matches.

 

[Foxtrot]

Sweden winning yesterday is the worst possible outcome for Germany. If Germany don't beat Sweden, which I can foresee the Swedes executing the same gameplan against the Italians in the playoff to frustrate the Germans and grind out a draw. Even if Germany beat South Korea 8-0 in in their last match, Sweden and Mexico could have a gentleman's agreement to play out a draw with no cards and injuries and Germany is knocked out. Actually could see this happening. Germany is seriously fecked now. Pressure is all on them now to beat Sweden. Simply a must win game. Let's see what they are made of and who can step up to save Germany this time.

 

[Janson]

Gotta say, it feels like we're fecked.

Sweden and Mexico are going through.

 

[podurban2]

Mexico are huge bottlers, the pressure on them from their home country is huge and they are not that good. I can see South Korea take points from them.

 

[RoyH1]

Sweden's result really puts Germany agains the ropes. A loss and they're out. A draw and they're really depending on Mexico to beat the Swedes in the last match ( I cannot see the Germans not beating South Korea as long as Khedira is safely on the bench were he belongs).

Sweden can relax and park two buses agains the Germans and see what they can get.

 

[Janson]

I just think it's funny how people keep using the German word for team in the middle of English sentences like it has some huge significance.
People trying to "subtly" show off their knowledge by using a phrase that no one in Germany would use in that way.

Maybe it's just that the forum members are so intelligent, that they all know about die Manshaft.

 

[RoyH1]

Mexico are huge bottlers, the pressure on them from their home country is huge and they are not that good. I can see South Korea take points from them.

Yeah, but Mexico bottles it in the knockout phase, not the group stage. They have progressed past the group stage of every World Cup they have been in since 86'

I see your point about Korea taking a point from them, but I actually think Mexico is not a good matchup for Sweden either. I can those speedy Mexican strikers giving the giving the Swedish fullbacks a nightmare game and should Sweden fall behind I don't see how Sweden could chase a result against them with their current strike force.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Saturday really can't come fecking soon enough. Anxious waiting to see how Germany responds to the Mexico defeat, still 4 more days

 

[do.ob]

To be honest I'm not that bothered by Sweden. If die Mannschaft struggles against them as well I'd probably rather have a trainwreck groupstage exit that shakes things up rather than a tournament performance that's just "good" enough to keep the status quo.

 

[hasanejaz88]

To be honest I'm not that bothered by Sweden. If die Mannschaft struggle's against them as well I'd probably rather have a trainwreck groupstage exit that shakes things up rather than a tournament performance that's just "good" enough to keep the status quo.

Hmmm no I'd rather we go out limply in the quarter-final atleast Group stage exit is embarassing.

 

[RoyH1]

Saturday really can't come fecking soon enough. Anxious waiting to see how Germany responds to the Mexico defeat, still 4 more days

What's the German press saying? Is Loew going to make widespread changes or just a piece or two.

 

[FootballHQ]

Gotta say, it feels like we're fecked.

You'll be fine. Can't see anything other than 6 points v Sweden and Korea.

Finishing second in the group will complicate things a lot though beyond that. Don't want to be running into a team like Brazil that early.

 

[Ole90+3]

You'll be fine. Can't see anything other than 6 points v Sweden and Korea.

Finishing second in the group will complicate things a lot though beyond that. Don't want to be running into a team like Brazil that early.

Nor do the Brazilians want to be running into a team like Germany that early either.

That German squad looks as if it lacks a bit of quality up front on on the wings however you can never underestimate that winning mentality.

 

[do.ob]

What's the German press saying? Is Loew going to make widespread changes or just a piece or two.

If you prepare for two years then you don't abandon your concept after one match.

 

[Lagger]

What's the German press saying? Is Loew going to make widespread changes or just a piece or two.

They were pretty harsh in their reactions. Naturally. But the main pages are busy with our little domestic political scandal, so this hasn't gotten as much attention as it could have if politics was boring.

Gotta say, it feels like we're fecked.

Well, look at the bright side... Germany traditionally has one fecked up game in group stages. So we got it in the first game instead of the second. Nothing's lost. If we win the next game decisively, everyone will call us WC contender again. The press and fans are fickle like that.

 

[Foxtrot]

If you prepare for two years then you don't abandon your concept after one match.

That's Germany fecked then.

 

[Acrobat7]

Sweden winning yesterday is the worst possible outcome for Germany. If Germany don't beat Sweden, which I can foresee the Swedes executing the same gameplan against the Italians in the playoff to frustrate the Germans and grind out a draw. Even if Germany beat South Korea 8-0 in in their last match, Sweden and Mexico could have a gentleman's agreement to play out a draw with no cards and injuries and Germany is knocked out. Actually could see this happening. Germany is seriously fecked now. Pressure is all on them now to beat Sweden. Simply a must win game. Let's see what they are made of and who can step up to save Germany this time.

Well, if you lose against Mexico and don’t beat Sweden you‘d deserve to go out.

 

[strongwalker]

What's the German press saying? Is Loew going to make widespread changes or just a piece or two.

No consensus on what to change. Team doesn't talk to press at all, and it seems 99% of the expert journalists have no idea what to write without them.
All agree Reus must start, all agree defensive midfield/counterattack vulnerability "somehow" has to be fixed. Apart from that, press mostly still in mode:shocked/embarrassed/incredulous i'd say.

 

[do.ob]

It's just that Löw has so many options at his disposal that may work that it would be dubious as an outsider to say he should pick a particular one.
After all even just telling the CMs to stay back at "all times" might already do the trick.

 

[Gasolin]

Mexico are huge bottlers, the pressure on them from their home country is huge and they are not that good. I can see South Korea take points from them.

No way, right now, South Korea is almost wondering if they should not just forfeit to avoid being humiliated in the remaining games. I mean, don't get me wrong, I am totally surprised South Korea played that badly the first game, they have good players and for me, they are used to the World Cup. But it is what is it, on the field, no control was good enough, players didn't think too much and the space they left in the midfield was abysmal...

 

[Hank S]

Well, if you lose against Mexico and don’t beat Sweden you‘d deserve to go out.

True true and my stance as well. Sweden will play for a draw and park the bus. But even then if Germany can't get a goal (and beat Sweden) they don't deserve to get out of the group.

Will be a nerve wrecking game and interesting to see if the team can stay calm in front of goal.

 

[Acheron]

Mexico are huge bottlers, the pressure on them from their home country is huge and they are not that good. I can see South Korea take points from them.

I wouldn't call them that even if they're not favorites to win the thing. There's at least some consistency in them in always getting through group stage no matter what group they end up so they're a solid top 20 nation that always plays in the round of 16, on paper they're certainly better than Korea. I used to think they weren't that great back in South Africa as they were in a group with the locals, France and Uruguay and Mexico and Uruguay advanced; then in Brazil they were again in the same group as the host nation (Brazil) and had also to go against Croatia in that group (whom were favorites against Mexico) and they also beat Croacia and went through their group.

That being said it would be hilarious if they lost against South Korea after beating Germany but I don't know if we should bet on that after watching South Korea play; so think South Korea will do well if they avoid finishing last in their group.

 

[Foxtrot]

Well, if you lose against Mexico and don’t beat Sweden is you‘d deserve to go out.

True but Sweden is not that weak. They are a giant-killer, they have become a very organized and cohesive team now without Zlatan, knocking out Netherlands and Italy to get to the World Cup is as impressive as it gets. Granted, those two big teams have regressed but they are still good teams. Germany also always seem to drop points in their second game, its like some mental block they have that they cannot win their second game. I'm really dreading the worst now. A World Cup knockout round without Germany would be so weird. If we get to half-time still not leading, could see Sweden getting a result.

 

[RoyH1]

When I see teams with a single reference superstar and how they play, I understand the Swedish decision to leave Zlatan out. Having a player like that makes the team always try to force attacks through them (Messi, Neymar, Salah) and unless said player is in the form of his life (Ronaldo), it makes the opposing team's defensive gameplan much simpler.

Some of the best football so far has been by teams with multiple offensive outlets (Spain, Russia, Mexico, Perú).

 

[do.ob]

Kuntz, who is a youth coach for DFB and a pundit for German TV thinks that Reus will start, probably for Werner or Draxler and when questioned about Khedira (being benched for Gündogan) he seemed to agree as well. Iirc he did some scouting for Löw, but I'm not sure how involved he is with die Mannschaft now that the tournament has started, still the German broadcasters, who have the most contact with die Mannschaft and the staff seem to unanimously agree on Reus.

 

[reddevil702]

When I see teams with a single reference superstar and how they play, I understand the Swedish decision to leave Zlatan out. Having a player like that makes the team always try to force attacks through them (Messi, Neymar, Salah) and unless said player is in the form of his life (Ronaldo), it makes the opposing team's defensive gameplan much simpler.

Some of the best football so far has been by teams with multiple offensive outlets (Spain, Russia, Mexico, Perú).

Very true and I think Argentina suffers the most because of all the attacking talent they have.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Kuntz, who is a youth coach for DFB and a pundit for German TV thinks that Reus will start, probably for Werner or Draxler and when questioned about Khedira (being benched for Gündogan) he seemed to agree as well. Iirc he did some scouting for Löw, but I'm not sure how involved he is with die Mannschaft now that the tournament has started, still the German broadcasters, who have the most contact with die Mannschaft and the staff seem to unanimously agree on Reus.

Reus is the obvious choice (like before the Mexico game).

Die Mannschaft talked this week about not changing the plan after 1 bad game.

That means the 4231 stays, only changes will be Hector, Gundogan and Reus coming in. One of Draxler and Werner will miss out. Low will never bench Ozil or Muller.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Now all of you - please stop this Die Mannschaft bullshit! It's dumb in German and super weird and annoying in English

 

[RoyH1]

Now all of you - please stop this Die Mannschaft bullshit! It's dumb in German and super weird and annoying in English

I hate this worldwide trend of coming up with little slogans or nicknames to surround national teams. So many are doing it. It's fine when it happens naturally but I hate it when it comes from a PR firm hired by the federations.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Now all of you - please stop this Die Mannschaft bullshit! It's dumb in German and super weird and annoying in English

I hate this worldwide trend of coming up with little slogans or nicknames to surround national teams. So many are doing it. It's fine when it happens naturally but I hate it when it comes from a PR firm hired by the federations.

I laugh at Bierhoff and his marketing shenanigans, he thinks he is Ed Woodward

It sounds weird and annoying in English though, that's reason enough for me to use it

There are much worse slogans
#ZSMMN
#EchteLiebe

 

[do.ob]

Reus is the obvious choice (like before the Mexico game).

Die Mannschaft talked this week about not changing the plan after 1 bad game.

That means the 4231 stays, only changes will be Hector, Gundogan and Reus coming in. One of Draxler and Werner will miss out. Low will never bench Ozil or Muller.

It wouldn't help anyone if Löw just changes things for the sake of it. They have practiced this approach for two years, it's perfectly logical that he's looking for adjustments to fix the problems rather than scrapping everything and trying from scratch in the middle of the group stages. If that was the case he might as well be fired on the spot for completely wasting those two years.
And I don't think Löw's words rule out changes to the formation, telling the #10/Özil to drop deeper or adding Gündogan as a 3rd CM would not be a change to the approach, but rather an adjustment to it.

I laugh at Bierhoff and his marketing shenanigans, he thinks he is Ed Woodward

It sounds weird and annoying in English though, that's reason enough for me to use it

There are much worse slogans
#ZSMMN
#EchteLiebe

People laugh a lot about these brand claims/hashtags, but I actually think they do their job and most critics are missing their point. #echteLiebe for example is not meant to dazzle life long supporters of Borussia Dortmund or even less so people who root for other clubs, it's for the sympathizers and neutrals, to deliver a certain message with a single word or hashtag.

 

[OutlawGER]

Now all of you - please stop this Die Mannschaft bullshit! It's dumb in German and super weird and annoying in English

It's legit. Stop hating on simple stuff like that, it's stupid. Makes you look a bit cynical.

In Germany we also use terms like 'Selecao', 'Three Lions', 'Squadra Azurra', etc. as nicknames for other countries teams. Also we call our team 'Die Mannschaft', because its our team in our language. Absolutely legit and well fitting to use that term in other languages as a nickname for our Mannschaft.

 

[robbie81]

It's legit. Stop hating on simple stuff like that, it's stupid. Makes you look a bit cynical.

In Germany we also use terms like 'Selecao', 'Three Lions', 'Squadra Azurra', etc. as nicknames for other countries teams. Also we call our team 'Die Mannschaft', because its our team in our language. Absolutely legit and well fitting to use that term in other languages as a nickname for our Mannschaft.

Do we? Most people i know just say Deutschland when talking about the team, even the foreign guys in my gym.