Last minute offside header from Fellaini to win it 2-1 for us. Pep would lose his (bald) head.
Guardiola aims jibe at United | Fellaini heads it clear
- Thread starter Strachans Cigar
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah sorry I got that about Fellaini. I cant imagine Fellaini would be a big feature of a Guardiola side and that comes back to the difference between him and LVG - but as you said Fellaini has consistently surprised people and is far better with the ball than people give him credit for. So while I wouldnt expect him to thrive under Guardiola, I wouldnt absolutely rule it out either.Yeah, 100% agreed Adebesi. A lot of variables is also going to impact everyone. Injuries, being one, and whoever is best going to deal with them is going to have a big edge.
The point i was rather making re LvG and Pep have similar philosophies was more in relation to someone saying use Fellaini as an example of attractive City and pragmatic United. I simply meant that Fellaini's constantly surprised us all. So I wouldn't write him off
I think what sticks in my mind as well is that City did very well the first few months of last season (I don't have stats to back it up so i might be spewing shite), and completely dropped off. Obviously now, Pep's wiser (wrt the EPL) and the players are wiser to his demands and more settled and his squad quality (especially FB) has drastically improved. So you won't expect another drop off like last season.
As for City, I am still hoping for a mid / late season drop off. More hope that expectation, admittedly, but there are grounds for hope.
Yeah, I'm hoping for a drop off/loss of form as well but as you, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the rate ourselves (and Chelsea + whoever else!) needs to keep on going at, if we're to keep pace with City. It is reasonable for anyone to come to the EPL and take a season to adapt (even though Conte didn't but that's another discussion). Pep's had that now, and improved his first XI and squad immensely.
But it's a marathon and not a sprint. There'll be stumbling blocks along the way for everyone. And there's already a big test lying ahead for Pep and city this weekend.
Did you went about searching every poster's post history who's criticising Pep in this thread?
It's like there's only one way to play football, and it's their way. Same thing happened after we won against Ajax.
I personally prefer Jose's way of winning at any cost. This is what separates Jose from the poets.
Sorry to labour the point and I know we arent actually disagreeing with each other - but it comes back to the point about pragmatism. That is a big part of the grounds for hope. Its all very well being a football purist and having a philosophy and that philosophy being the most beautiful type of football its possible to conceive of. And maybe that philosophy actually is the perfect expression of football, the ultimate balance between art and science, the end of history, the system that cannot be defeated. Or, maybe its a system that teams will figure out a way to play against, or a system that falls apart when a few key players have an off say. IF it is the latter, and City dont just win all their games at a canter because they are just so damn good, our pragmatism, our ability to play different ways depending on the circumstances and to grind out wins playing ugly when needed, will stand us in great stead.
Like I said, not disagreeing with anything you said, just rambling.
Where as he has none.
No worries, it's good rambles and sums up how I feel about it. In an ideal world, I'd love, as most of us would, to play football like that, like art. Where you never consider the tactics of the oppo - because they fear you, and adjust according to you or you're just so confident in the execution of your tactics and players - that you'd blow them away no matter what.
But as some has alluded to on here, unless you have the world XI starting for you, and always in form, it's unlikely that, that would be the case and it would be foolish to never go in with a plan B and adjust to the real world, to how the situation is unfolding. And that is a bit how Pep is, or comes across. So maybe, just maybe, he gets it right and he blows 90% of the teams out the water - and that should be enough to secure him his first EPL title.
But like you mentioned, there's that hope that pragmatism will edge it in the end.
Love it
Pep Fraudiola, hasn't watched many United games this season I suppose?
Is that just in the league ? If true then we have hit about 9 "long balls@ per 90 minutes.
What constitutes the minimum distance for a long ball and does it have to. E airborn?
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Probably not, but I don't think quality or squad depth was necessarily the problem for Pep last season - it was more an issue of character and lack of plan B. Time will tell whether his signings have more character, but I think we know there won't be a plan B.
Yeah, as Adebesi and I discussed, it could go either way. You're more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt re fitting into a new league etc (even though the same standards shouldn't really apply to world class managers), so we'll see this second season.
But the lack of a plan B I feel is going to cost them. If not in the league, then most probably in the UCL in the latter rounds if they're facing teams who will dominate the ball.
He has to make some excuse before the game with us, but he must have some concern to say this. It is good that we have the players to be able to play route B if we have to. 3 points is all that matters in these games.
Hasn't he got better things to do,like go out and buy another jumper?
Who cares?
I'm never 100% sure what Pep is actually rambling on about anyway. Pretty sure half the time what's in his head is completely different to whatever it is that comes out of his mouth.
I'm never 100% sure what Pep is actually rambling on about anyway. Pretty sure half the time what's in his head is completely different to whatever it is that comes out of his mouth.
Be even better if Fellaini gets away with a borderline second yellow foul minutes before he scores.
It might be based more on hope than reality, but I kind of feel like he's doomed to fail - or at least never reach the heights his Barca team did. Messi is arguably the best player of all time, and then you add him to a midfield of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets - all of them schooled in La Masia from childhood, and playing in a technical league that was the perfect environment for that style to flourish. Trying to recreate that in the Premier League, without the best player of all time, without a nucleus of players who have been together since they were kids, and in a much more physical league that he doesn't have an innate understanding of....well I think it's going to be a hell of a lot tougher, and I wonder whether, with no particular love for the club, he will have the desire and motivation to really see the project through.
There just seems to be no middle ground regarding Pep on the Caf here most of the times. It's either he's a lovable genius or there is pure hatred against him.I've just seen the footage of the Pep interview and he doesn't say that. The Daily Mail have mugged you off.
He was talking about the use of physicality, direct football and the English national team, and says the likes of Dier, Alli, Rashford, Lallana etc can play any brand of football they want.
"...for example, I see Chelsea, I see Tottenham - they like to play, they want to play, at United they'll play second balls with Fellaini or Pogba, after they have the quality to play"
He's actually saying United can play but they also have long balls and second balls to fall back on. Lineker's follow up was him looking for controversy.
He was talking about the use of physicality, direct football and the English national team, and says the likes of Dier, Alli, Rashford, Lallana etc can play any brand of football they want.
"...for example, I see Chelsea, I see Tottenham - they like to play, they want to play, at United they'll play second balls with Fellaini or Pogba, after they have the quality to play"
He's actually saying United can play but they also have long balls and second balls to fall back on. Lineker's follow up was him looking for controversy.
He doesn't actually say that though. It may be what he means, it may not. That's my point. And some people are just super sensitive and have probably went with the more negative interpretation. Which is just as likely.
Tribal loyalties taking over here:
Pep - incredibly successful manager (although with the players he has had one could argue that Mill Hill Manc might have won a league or two), committed to passing football from the back and attacking football. Sometimes a bit naïve.
Jose - incredibly successful manager and managed teams with fewer resources (Porto, Inter), likes to play decent football but not averse to a bit of hit and hope, specialises in defensive subs to secure a game rather than going for more - pragmatism. Also likes Fellaini.
Both seem to guarantee success.
We have Jose. Would I have preferred Pep? Maybe as I'm an idealist who grew up watching some fantastic utd football in the 90's.
Pep - incredibly successful manager (although with the players he has had one could argue that Mill Hill Manc might have won a league or two), committed to passing football from the back and attacking football. Sometimes a bit naïve.
Jose - incredibly successful manager and managed teams with fewer resources (Porto, Inter), likes to play decent football but not averse to a bit of hit and hope, specialises in defensive subs to secure a game rather than going for more - pragmatism. Also likes Fellaini.
Both seem to guarantee success.
We have Jose. Would I have preferred Pep? Maybe as I'm an idealist who grew up watching some fantastic utd football in the 90's.
Gold post. Deserves Ballon'D'or for the best comment of the day.
I'm not a huge fan of the type of football he's talking about (although I also found his beloved Barca incredibly dull too) but it always annoys me when certain managers feel they have some moral authority in dismissing any approach to the sport, purely out of an entirely abstract and contrived sense of style.
You don't find it so much out of football, this attitude that it's not ridiculous to resort to moaning and insults when an opponent doesn't play either to your strengths or in a manner that you deem to be acceptable.
I also find it incredible that he's happy to simply state his aversion to training "second balls" due to him finding it boring, as if his own sense of fun and excitement is some prerequisite for him to be bothered to train something. But this is entirely consistent with the arrogance and sense of self entitlement he has always shown towards the game.
It's that same history of arrogance that makes me believe he hasn't said this in any attempt to rile anyone up; it's simply what he thinks and who he is, a manager who finds more virtue in spending endless amounts of money than in respecting the basics of the game.
You don't find it so much out of football, this attitude that it's not ridiculous to resort to moaning and insults when an opponent doesn't play either to your strengths or in a manner that you deem to be acceptable.
I also find it incredible that he's happy to simply state his aversion to training "second balls" due to him finding it boring, as if his own sense of fun and excitement is some prerequisite for him to be bothered to train something. But this is entirely consistent with the arrogance and sense of self entitlement he has always shown towards the game.
It's that same history of arrogance that makes me believe he hasn't said this in any attempt to rile anyone up; it's simply what he thinks and who he is, a manager who finds more virtue in spending endless amounts of money than in respecting the basics of the game.
This year, and how it ends for them, will go a long way in deciding how his reign pans out IMO.
lol
He's just Jealous of Mourinho's hair and success.
And jumper. No surprise his comments come after the game against CSKA.
Pep's football is the polar opposite of the fantastic Utd football of the 90s
What does Guardiola mean by "they play the second balls"?
A long ball is the first ball. The subsequent knock down where the ball is loose, is the second ball. Which is what - according to him - we're looking to capitalise on.
It's what Klopp has bemoaned too. Conceding goals from the "second ball" after a team has taken a corner or set piece into the box and the ball has been loose.
Long ball up to a player and then try to win the knock on.
So he made a reasonable and accurate statement. What an absolute prick.
Thanks guys.
nah, he was clearly making a point - you can view it as a dig or not.
So once wanting him to be our manager means that later on a poster can't think he is acting like a prick?
But back to Pep's comments, can't really get all worked up about them myself.
Nothing to worry about. Pep and Jose seem more mellow now. It could be because they can't be bothered with drama anymore but either way it isn't the same as the Barca and Madrid rivalry although things could sour later on if we're both in the hunt for the title. Jose will snipe back for sure but it's all minor stuff.
Idk if it was a dig or not and I don't care. Pep builds his teams to play in a specific way, while Mourinho prefers pace and power, but is more flexible and willing to adjust to the strength of his opponents. The reality is that if you have a striker like Lukaku and a plan B target man like Fellaini, who these possession heavy teams often are clueless against, you'd be a total fecking idiot not to use playing long and direct to them as an option.
Not only is it effective, but it gives your opposition multiple tactical setups to prepare for.
Not only is it effective, but it gives your opposition multiple tactical setups to prepare for.