I said it in the summer but you were all barking up the wrong tree - it should have been Varane that was looking to be sold. You can't have a first choice CB that is barely fit, whereas a 4th choice CB who is always fit is great. Maguire staying is no concern to me, but something needs to be done about Varane, he's useless even as a backup.
5
6.0
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Clean sheets
- 6
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
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Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
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I said it in the summer but you were all barking up the wrong tree - it should have been Varane that was looking to be sold. You can't have a first choice CB that is barely fit, whereas a 4th choice CB who is always fit is great. Maguire staying is no concern to me, but something needs to be done about Varane, he's useless even as a backup.
I would have sold both, but I do trust Varane more than I trust Maguire after last season. A small sample of a couple of games isn't going to change that
Red00012
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Granted it was only Brentford but they have 2 of the fastest forwards in the PLGreat shift but he won't survive against a quick attacking side like Spurs, Arsenal or City. Don't get too carried away. But then again we could say that for our entire defence.
Lentwood
Full Member
I said it in the summer but you were all barking up the wrong tree - it should have been Varane that was looking to be sold. You can't have a first choice CB that is barely fit, whereas a 4th choice CB who is always fit is great. Maguire staying is no concern to me, but something needs to be done about Varane, he's useless even as a backup.
100% agree. I still feel we've treated Maguire badly - for me he became a scapegoat, someone for a bunch of angry and frustrated supporters to lash out at.
Has his form dipped at times? Sure, but then you could say that about our entire squad.
He's never injured, he's absolutely committed, he's brave and he's actually a very good player.
I'd take Maguire over Varane and Lindelof, all factors considered, over the course of a full season all day long.
Mike Smalling
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100% agree. I still feel we've treated Maguire badly - for me he became a scapegoat, someone for a bunch of angry and frustrated supporters to lash out at.
Has his form dipped at times? Sure, but then you could say that about our entire squad.
He's never injured, he's absolutely committed, he's brave and he's actually a very good player.
I'd take Maguire over Varane and Lindelof, all factors considered, over the course of a full season all day long.
The problem isn't his commitment, his availability or his professionalism. It's that his basic characteristics as a defender are not compatible with how we want to play, so he is only used as a last resort. He is way too slow, and not nearly as good on the ball as he is sometimes given credit for. On top of that he is quite error prone. The evidence for this is ETH using Luke Shaw in central defense before him. Playing a high line with Maguire is just not a good idea. Varane is the opposite as a defender, but obviously struggles with availability, which is a problem.
That's why some people wanted rid of him so badly. We have a very high paid player, who used to be captain, who will not be used much before of the type of player he is. Maguire is not as bad as some like to suggest, but his strengths would just be utilized much better in a different side.
Mercurial
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He seem great in a back 3
I said it in the summer but you were all barking up the wrong tree - it should have been Varane that was looking to be sold. You can't have a first choice CB that is barely fit, whereas a 4th choice CB who is always fit is great. Maguire staying is no concern to me, but something needs to be done about Varane, he's useless even as a backup.
Maguire is always fit indeed, but he is very error prone in a system with a high line. One good game against a struggling Brentford side isnt going to change that.
Lentwood
Full Member
The problem isn't his commitment, his availability or his professionalism. It's that his basic characteristics as a defender are not compatible with how we want to play, so he is only used as a last resort. He is way too slow, and not nearly as good on the ball as he is sometimes given credit for. On top of that he is quite error prone. The evidence for this is ETH using Luke Shaw in central defense before him. Playing a high line with Maguire is just not a good idea. Varane is the opposite as a defender, but obviously struggles with availability, which is a problem.
That's why some people wanted rid of him so badly. We have a very high paid player, who used to be captain, who will not be used much before of the type of player he is. Maguire is not as bad as some like to suggest, but his strengths would just be utilized much better in a different side.
I appreciate that football is a game of opinions but with the sheer amount of focus on Maguire in the media + the constant microanalysis of his game since we made him the world's most expensive CB, I feel we've completely lost sight of the fact that he's still a top centre half.
It feels to me like ETH came in determined to move on from Maguire, but can we honestly say we've improved defensively? I'm not convinced, personally.
We talk about the high-line not suiting him, but it doesn't suit ANY CB if they're consistently exposed by an absent midfield and a weak press - something we've seen this season with Martinez, Varane and Lindelof.
Let's be honest, if Maguire had featured in the 0-7 vs Liverpool or the 3-6 vs City he'd have been savaged. If Maguire had performed as Martinez, Varane and Lindelof have this season, he'd have been savaged.
I'm not hear to argue with people about Maguire. Most people have made their minds up, he's a meme, he's the world worst centre half, he's a donkey, he's a laughing stock...but I sometimes think be careful what we wish for, because we've bombed him out the side and blamed him for all of our problems...and yet we might still be a better team with him in it...
EDIT | Few quick stats from last season...
Premier League 90-mins/Starts = 8
Premier League wins = 6
Premier League clean sheets = 4
Can't have been that much of a problem can he? The two games we didn't win with him in the team were the infamous Brentford
and Brighton games at the start of the season. Did ETH discard him too quickly following those defeats?
Last edited:
This is the same Maguire that would routinely feck up game by game and apparently it's the fans fault for treating him badly. This was the club captain that would blame others rather than taking responsibility for our and his form. His form has been horrific since the Euro Final defeat.
He is an ok player when you set up your tactics to defend against his clear and obvious weaknesses. But he isn't good enough to warrant that. Its not like he scores a bunch of set piece goals or offers clear leadership. He's a woeful leader.
Varane is a significantly better player. Yes he's injury prone, but when he is on the pitch he's a much better player. The problem is we didn't buy a Varane alternative to rotate him with so he isn't always rushed back because our CB options are garbage.
This is the problem with this forum. A player puts in one decent performance and suddenly he's the best again. Alternatively you get a player who has one bad game and he's crap and should be sold. Far too reactive. One game a player does not make, Yoda said that and he's a fecking clever lad.
He is an ok player when you set up your tactics to defend against his clear and obvious weaknesses. But he isn't good enough to warrant that. Its not like he scores a bunch of set piece goals or offers clear leadership. He's a woeful leader.
Varane is a significantly better player. Yes he's injury prone, but when he is on the pitch he's a much better player. The problem is we didn't buy a Varane alternative to rotate him with so he isn't always rushed back because our CB options are garbage.
This is the problem with this forum. A player puts in one decent performance and suddenly he's the best again. Alternatively you get a player who has one bad game and he's crap and should be sold. Far too reactive. One game a player does not make, Yoda said that and he's a fecking clever lad.
Mike Smalling
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I appreciate that football is a game of opinions but with the sheer amount of focus on Maguire in the media + the constant microanalysis of his game since we made him the world's most expensive CB, I feel we've completely lost sight of the fact that he's still a top centre half.
It feels to me like ETH came in determined to move on from Maguire, but can we honestly say we've improved defensively? I'm not convinced, personally.
We talk about the high-line not suiting him, but it doesn't suit ANY CB if they're consistently exposed by an absent midfield and a weak press - something we've seen this season with Martinez, Varane and Lindelof.
Let's be honest, if Maguire had featured in the 0-7 vs Liverpool or the 3-6 vs City he'd have been savaged. If Maguire had performed as Martinez, Varane and Lindelof have this season, he'd have been savaged.
I'm not hear to argue with people about Maguire. Most people have made their minds up, he's a meme, he's the world worst centre half, he's a donkey, he's a laughing stock...but I sometimes think be careful what we wish for, because we've bombed him out the side and blamed him for all of our problems...and yet we might still be a better team with him in it...
EDIT | Few quick stats from last season...
Premier League 90-mins/Starts = 8
Premier League wins = 6
Premier League clean sheets = 4
Can't have been that much of a problem can he? The two games we didn't win with him in the team were the infamous Brentford
and Brighton games at the start of the season. Did ETH discard him too quickly following those defeats?
I agree with some of that. He is definitely scrutinized and memed to a ridiculous extent.
I disagree with a lot if it as well:
- I don't think he is a "top centre half". If he was, there would surely be a bigger club than West Ham ready to step in with an offer for him, when he was not wanted here.
- Yes, an absent midfield is bad for any defender. That doesn't change the fact that a slow one (which he is) will get a lot more exposed in a high line than one with a bit of pace. It's clear that Maguire is exposed more than Varane.
- I also don't think you can use those 8 games to say anything about how big a problem he is. After those two defeats to start the season, he didn't really start in any really challenging league fixtures. It was West (H), Bournemouth (H), Leeds (A), Everton (H), Nottingham Forest (A), Fulham (H). Hardly the toughest of games.
I can't see how having Maguire in the side will improve us in anyway. He is just an ok back-up. Nothing more.
Yes he gets undeservedly memed a lot, but some people in here have the memories of a goldfish.
He's just not a good player for any club that don't sit back like when he was at Leicester.
Have some of you lot actually forgot how many personal mistakes he's made? How slow he has been on the ball throughout his career here?
He's just not a good player for any club that don't sit back like when he was at Leicester.
Have some of you lot actually forgot how many personal mistakes he's made? How slow he has been on the ball throughout his career here?
Lentwood
Full Member
I agree with some of that. He is definitely scrutinized and memed to a ridiculous extent.
I disagree with a lot if it as well:
- I don't think he is a "top centre half". If he was, there would surely be a bigger club than West Ham ready to step in with an offer for him, when he was not wanted here.
- Yes, an absent midfield is bad for any defender. That doesn't change the fact that a slow one (which he is) will get a lot more exposed in a high line than one with a bit of pace. It's clear that Maguire is exposed more than Varane.
- I also don't think you can use those 8 games to say anything about how big a problem he is. After those two defeats to start the season, he didn't really start in any really challenging league fixtures. It was West (H), Bournemouth (H), Leeds (A), Everton (H), Nottingham Forest (A), Fulham (H). Hardly the toughest of games.
I can't see how having Maguire in the side will improve us in anyway. He is just an ok back-up. Nothing more.
You can use stats to prove anything - there are lies, damn lies and statistics, that's for sure.
However, your opinion might be that he's a squad player, mine is that he could arguably start next to Martinez and we'd be fine. We don't have to have the same opinion, that's fine.
The people I have an issue with are those who are hysterical, who whip themselves into a frenzy whenever he plays or who want to write him off as a total bust.
The FACT is that we have won the last 7 Premier League games he has started. Sure, there's absolutely no context to a statistic like that, but I think it does show he's a solid squad player as a minimum, which we agree on.
pocco
loco
I would have sold both, but I do trust Varane more than I trust Maguire after last season. A small sample of a couple of games isn't going to change that
Trust Varane to what? Get injured?
In all seriousness, Varane is useless. It's time everybody accepted that - if you can't be available regularly then what's the point? Every top team needs a settled defence and we can never have that as long as we rely on him as a first choice CB. But like I said, even as a backup he is still useless as he's always injured. I think it would be best if he was sold, personally. And in all honesty I don't think he's even good enough to be willing to deal with his injury concerns.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
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Trust Varane to what? Get injured?
In all seriousness, Varane is useless. It's time everybody accepted that - if you can't be available regularly then what's the point? Every top team needs a settled defence and we can never have that as long as we rely on him as a first choice CB. But like I said, even as a backup he is still useless as he's always injured. I think it would be best if he was sold, personally. And in all honesty I don't think he's even good enough to be willing to deal with his injury concerns.
Should I repeat? I would have sold both.
Maguire by the way has been injured this season as much as Varane has.
I trust Varane as a player injuries included more than I trust Maguire
pocco
loco
Maguire is always fit indeed, but he is very error prone in a system with a high line. One good game against a struggling Brentford side isnt going to change that.
True, I was never a big fan of signing him in the first place. But United fan are like sheep, they hear one opinion and the idiots blow it up to the extreme. He's not as bad as people make out, and he's generally always fit. Would I have him in an ideal world? No. Do I think Varane is a bigger issue? Yes. I wouldn't be bothered at all to see Maguire roll out for league cup games and the odd game here and there (not that he would want that in all likelihood), as long as our first choice defence was very good and always available. The Maguire issue is exacerbated by Varane's fitness issues. I'd sell Varane and replace him with a top class CB that is always fit. Then if Maguire wants to go then buy a good backup. Varane is no use to us.
pocco
loco
Should I repeat? I would have sold both.
Maguire by the way has been injured this season as much as Varane has.
I trust Varane as a player injuries included more than I trust Maguire
I was joking, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. But yes, I'd sell both - Varane as a priority.
I can't trust a player who is barely fit, we've put up long enough with this. Jones, Bailly etc. That back line needs sorting out.
Northstand
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He played well for England last night and was in no way at fault for the Italians' goal. Obviously this thread usually gets bumped when the caf is looking for a scapegoat, though.
Frank Grimes
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Deserves a start versus his former club. Lindelof benched hopefully.
Sheffield Utd 1:2 Man Utd
Mmm-Qatarian
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Another very solid performance. Dare I say, he's actually having an alright season.
sammyhol
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Our best player by a mile tonight
Scandi Red
Hates Music.
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Great perfomance.
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Credit where it's due - that was an excellent performance from him tonight.
Pro-active in ground duels and made several accurate long passes. The slab head was dominant too in dispelling the long balls by Sheffield United.
Pro-active in ground duels and made several accurate long passes. The slab head was dominant too in dispelling the long balls by Sheffield United.
IrishRedDevil
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Played very well.
Heinzesight
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Did well overall. A lot of comfortable headers straight back to the opposition in the first half but solid second half.
ClassOf'99
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Seems to be paying well ever since he was stripped of being captainAnother very solid performance. Dare I say, he's actually having an alright season.
Andersonson
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Very good. His passing too.
V.O.
Last Man Standing finalist 2019/20
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Very solid centre half against useless cloggers.
Snow
Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Been good this season and no reason he should lose his spot when others return from injuries with the way he is playing.
bstb3
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A lot better today, fair play to him. Passed well, defended well, nothing crazy. Has to be tempered by the quality of opposition, but you can only play what is in front of you and he did it well. Best of the back line by far tonight.
P-Nut
fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
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MOTM for us tonight
OldSchoolManc
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It’s great that we have Harry to call on for games at his level
ReallyUSA
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Bro back on his sh
zenith
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He was brilliant tonight. Very aggressive is tackles and winning the ball back.
Should be starting against city on merit
Should be starting against city on merit
Vidyoyo
The bad "V"
He excels in games against physical opposition and was very good tonight
edgecutter
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Him starting against City gives me the chills. He'll more than likely start but it will be a blood bath when he faces their pace.He was brilliant tonight. Very aggressive is tackles and winning the ball back.
Should be starting against city on merit
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That was the Maguire that we thought we had purchased for. I wonder is it the Evans' organising effect or playing in the international games.
A-man
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Good at clearing the ball and no mistakes, but too slow on the ball.
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Another W for his stats when starting, motm tonight for me
credit to him, armband taken away and insane of abuse towards him.
credit to him, armband taken away and insane of abuse towards him.
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