Higuain´s foul against Neuer

[Marcosdeto]

I much prefer a keeper who commits himself and takes everything. How much times have we heard people say the keeper was too weak and should have taken ball, player the lot.
De Gea was much criticised on here in his first season for being too weak, letting players bully him.
Do people think Neuer intended to knee him on the face? I don't think he could time it that well.
He simply commited himself to get the ball which he did, Higuain had no chance of getting near the ball there was a collision and the ref gave a free kick too Germany.
That was the only thing wrong with the situation, it should have been a throw in to Argentina.
Great goalkeeping by Neuer.

you are right

and you know what? i seriously prefer it wasnt a penalty, than losing it this way

germany was a fair winner, and there were no spots tainting it

argentina can leave with the head high, because they gave everything they've got, the fact that the germans were better is the reason they won

 

[EnricoPalazzo]

...he smashes his knee into the guys head.

Nobody smashed his knees into Higuains head.

Neuer hits him with the side of his upper leg and his lat.

 

[bishblaize]

Nobody smashed his knees into Higuains head.

Neuer hits him with the side of his upper leg and his lat.

the distinction is irrelevant.

 

[Pink Moon]

I wonder what would happen if a defender jumped into an attacker like that.

For me it's a clear foul. Neuer's challenge endangered another opponent. That's how I'm seeing it.

 

[Cereal Killer]

While it may have been a deliberate attempt to get the ball, I'm sorry, he smashes his knee into the guys head. How the hell is that not dangerous play? I mean if that isn't, what the hell is? That kind of thing can fracture your skull, far more dangerous than a two-footed tackle

Again, pretty much this.

 

[Pink Moon]

Is there not also an alternative argument that in order for Neuer to play the ball he has to come through Higuain? Usually when that happens with a standard slide tackle a free kick is the outcome.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Is there not also an alternative argument that in order for Neuer to play the ball he has to come through Higuain? Usually when that happens with a standard slide tackle a free kick is the outcome.

Difficult to apply the same rules to a scenario where the player in question is allowed to use his hands. In this particular scenario there is the added difficulty of considering one player's elevation relative to the other.

Also, that alternative argument probably only works if Higuain is in posession of the ball.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Of course I appreciate the difference that they are allowed to use their hands, but that doesn't allow them to do just about anything. I don't think flying out with your knee in he strikers face is an act of protection at all. Also, I think things like that kill the balance on the pitch. It encourages a free licence to keepers to be able to do anything to win the ball while every other individual has to watch his step.

He's protecting himself, which he has a rightful duty to do. Like I said, no one complains when keepers punch other players in the head while challenging for a ball.

 

[Pink Moon]

Difficult to apply the same rules to a scenario where the player in question is allowed to use his hands. In this particular scenario there is the added difficulty of considering one player's elevation relative to the other.

Also, that probably only works if Higuain is in posession of the ball.

But then you have to take into consideration that Higuain was in the process of trying to chest the ball which would've put him in possession of it.

 

[Scrumpet]

At least refs are consistent in how 'keepers always get the benefit of the doubt. The World Cup Final would be a pretty terrible time to change how these incidents are called.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's protecting himself, which he has a rightful duty to do. Like I said, no one complains when keepers punch other players in the head while challenging for a ball.

Then they should! I'm sorry, let's agree to disagree on this one. I just can't see the way he challenged as a means of defence. It was callous and unnecessary IMO. Then again, keepers are hardly penalised for anything so they're bound to be callous.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

But then you have to take into consideration that Higuain was in the process of trying to chest the ball which would've put him in possession of it.

But he wasn't in posession....

 

[Rado_N]

He's protecting himself, which he has a rightful duty to do. Like I said, no one complains when keepers punch other players in the head while challenging for a ball.

I'm pretty sure they do!

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Then they should! I'm sorry, let's agree to disagree on this one. I just can't see the way he challenged as a means of defence. It was callous and unnecessary IMO. Then again, keepers are hardly penalised for anything so they're bound to be callous.

Fair enough, I'll remind you at this time of Andy Carroll's spearing of David De Gea a couple of seasons back, though.

 

[Pink Moon]

But he wasn't in posession....

How is that relevant though? A guy shielding the ball out of play doesn't have possession either. If I run up behind him and just flatten him then it's a foul.

If you challenge in a high, dangerous fashion that endangers another player then you should be penalised. Simple as.

 

[Lu Tze]

fecks sake. Let's make one thing perfectly clear. It is absolutely normal that Neuer jumps with his legs like that. It's basic goalkeeping in order to protect the keeper from being flipped. Higuain had an absolute mile to choose to not run in to Neuer inside his box, he failed to do so. If that happens on a corner, it's a foul. If it happens in the box, it's a foul. Simple. It doesn't matter what it "feels" like, it matters what's in the rules, and the rules say it's a foul on the keeper.

 

[Anustart89]

He's protecting himself, which he has a rightful duty to do. Like I said, no one complains when keepers punch other players in the head while challenging for a ball.

While I can appreciate the notion that he is 'protecting himself', I think that there is, and should be, a distinction between this situation and the regular "goalkeeper to catch the ball on a corner while a crowd of attackers are swarming him" situation. I mean, he's protecting his knee from Higuaín's head here.

For me, the difference is that the goalkeeper in one situation, like Neuer, is the aggressor in a situation where he comes out at full pelt and jumps into the attacker to clear the ball. In a situation like the one above on a corner, the goalkeeper is clearly not the aggressor and has the right to defend himself by putting up a knee or similar to prevent attackers from tackling him, or to make sure that if they do, they're going to tackle a knee rather than a chest or arm.

Honestly, in terms of endangering the opponent, the only thing differentiating Neuer's challenge from Schumacher's on Battiston is the fact that he's led with his arse rather than the knee and that he missed the ball. Similarly, in that situation the goalkeeper is clearly the aggressor and comes in with utter disregard for his opponents.

 

[Marcosdeto]

fecks sake. Let's make one thing perfectly clear. It is absolutely normal that Neuer jumps with his legs like that. It's basic goalkeeping in order to protect the keeper from being flipped. Higuain had an absolute mile to choose to not run in to Neuer inside his box, he failed to do so. If that happens on a corner, it's a foul. If it happens in the box, it's a foul. Simple.

it isnt clear at all that that was higuains foul, it should have been a throw in for argentina

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

How is that relevant though? A guy shielding the ball out of play doesn't have possession either. If I run up behind him and just flatten him then it's a foul.

If you challenge in a high, dangerous fashion that endangers another player then you should be penalised. Simple as.

How can a keeper, who can use his hands to take a ball, not challenge in a high, dangerous fashion each and every time he jumps to collect a ball with his hands?

Consider this and then you may come away with a better understanding of why keepers are held to a different standard than outfield players.

 

[Grinner]

Yer man who took out Neymar didn't get booked, did he? He led with his knee.

 

[EnricoPalazzo]

How is that relevant though?

It is relevant, because this way you can't tell if Neuer ran into Higuain or if Higuain ran into Neuer.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

While I can appreciate the notion that he is 'protecting himself', I think that there is, and should be, a distinction between this situation and the regular "goalkeeper to catch the ball on a corner while a crowd of attackers are swarming him" situation. I mean, he's protecting his knee from Higuaín's head here.

For me, the difference is that the goalkeeper in one situation, like Neuer, is the aggressor in a situation where he comes out at full pelt and jumps into the attacker to clear the ball. In a situation like the one above on a corner, the goalkeeper is clearly not the aggressor and has the right to defend himself by putting up a knee or similar to prevent attackers from tackling him, or to make sure that if they do, they're going to tackle a knee rather than a chest or arm.

Honestly, in terms of endangering the opponent, the only thing differentiating Neuer's challenge from Schumacher's on Battiston is the fact that he's led with his arse rather than the knee and that he missed the ball. Similarly, in that situation the goalkeeper is clearly the aggressor and comes in with utter disregard for his opponents.

The error in the bolded part is the assumption that Neuer has come out with the intention of doing something other than clearing the ball. In this case, the wording implies that he's come out to clatter Higuain and clearing the ball is secondary. It wasn't. It's the keeper's area, they have a lot of leeway in it. Officiating in footbal has always followed this

 

[Momochiru]

People complaining that if this had happened between two outfield players it would've been a foul by Neuer are missing the whole point. Keepers are not outfield players - they need to play the game in completely different way and can't be held to the same standards as outfield players. 90% of the times when a keeper goes for the ball he is not in control of his body - of course it's dangerous, that's why they get the extra protection. They risk their health much more than any other player on the field. The rule of thumb is if a keeper gets to the ball first than it's not a foul even if he clashes with a player. Forwards know that very well and pull out of challenges like that most of the time.

 

[Anustart89]

The error in the bolded part is the assumption that Neuer has come out with the intention of doing something other than clearing the ball. In this case, the wording implies that he's come out to clatter Higuain and clearing the ball is secondary. It wasn't. It's the keeper's area, they have a lot of leeway in it. Officiating in footbal has always followed this

The important part for me is that Neuer's rush indicates that "I'm going to clear the ball and I don't care whether or not I take him out in the process of doing it". For me, that's careless/reckless and a foul.

The officiating has always afforded the goalkeepers a lot of freedom in terms of whether other players can tackle them, but I don't think there's been a rule revision since goalkeepers started playing more aggressively.

What do you think is the difference between the tackle made by Schumacher (sometimes called the worst assault of all time in football) and Neuer's, other than the fact that Battiston got to the ball before Schumacher? Do you think that the end result in terms of whether you get the ball or not is more important than the force exerted on your opponent? In that case, I respectfully disagree.

 

[Northern Tiger]

It was the correct decision, Neuer got the ball and then Higuain collided with him after he did. Higuain just happened to come out of it worse.

I laughed at the time because I did something similar earlier when rushing out except the striker got a yellow card which was funny at the time.

 

[No11]

How is that relevant though? A guy shielding the ball out of play doesn't have possession either. If I run up behind him and just flatten him then it's a foul.

If you challenge in a high, dangerous fashion that endangers another player then you should be penalised. Simple as.

Lets get something clear. Do you think Neuer intentionally kneed Higuain in the face? Because a lot of stuff you are coming out with now is nonsense ie "if I run up behind him and flatten him".
Neuer did not run up behind Higuain and flatten him, he went to win the ball and did so very well. Higuain was trying to get possession but was never going to get there ahead of Neuer and got flattened ( Neuer himself could have got injured due to the collision).
It was a coming together between 2 players, one (Neuer) who had a clear advantage due to the fact he could use his hands.
Players colliding accidentally is something that does happen on the football field.
Again I will say it was excellent goalkeeping from Neuer.

 

[Fritz]

But then you have to take into consideration that Higuain was in the process of trying to chest the ball which would've put him in possession of it.

LOL what a lie. The ball was waaaay over his head, how could he chest the ball? Big LOL.

Never a foul by Neuer. Just look at how Romero went with his leg fully extended against Klose. Romero knew full well that he was protected by the rules.

Pathetic by the argies to complain about Neuer, to call the ref ladron, thief, when their own gk was doing the same thing. What sore losers.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

The important part for me is that Neuer's rush indicates that "I'm going to clear the ball and I don't care whether or not I take him out in the process of doing it". For me, that's careless/reckless and a foul.

The officiating has always afforded the goalkeepers a lot of freedom in terms of whether other players can tackle them, but I don't think there's been a rule revision since goalkeepers started playing more aggressively.

What do you think is the difference between the tackle made by Schumacher (sometimes called the worst assault of all time in football) and Neuer's, other than the fact that Battiston got to the ball before Schumacher? Do you think that the end result in terms of whether you get the ball or not is more important than the force exerted on your opponent? In that case, I respectfully disagree.

I really don't think Schumacher was going for the ball in that incident. Clearly going to take out the player, although it's been a little while since I've seen the footage. Neuer only had eyes for the the ball yesterday and appears to have made some attempt to avoid really clattering Higuain.

 

[Anustart89]

I really don't think Schumacher was going for the ball in that incident. Clearly going to take out the player, although it's been a little while since I've seen the footage. Neuer only had eyes for the the ball yesterday and appears to have made some attempt to avoid really clattering Higuain.

Fair enough. For me, carelessness and/or recklessness is disconnected from intent so it's an irrelevant point, but let's agree to disagree.

 

[Pink Moon]

How can a keeper, who can use his hands to take a ball, not challenge in a high, dangerous fashion each and every time he jumps to collect a ball with his hands?

Consider this and then you may come away with a better understanding of why keepers are held to a different standard than outfield players.

Why are his hands relevant though? He jumped in a dangerous fashion. It shouldn't matter if it it's a goalkeeper or outfield player. When you jump leading with the knee and completely wipe out an opponent, it should be penalised for dangerous play.

 

[Pink Moon]

It is relevant, because this way you can't tell if Neuer ran into Higuain or if Higuain ran into Neuer.

It's blatantly obvious who initiated the contact. Running into each other isn't the issue anyway. It's how one of them went into the challenge that's the issue.

 

[Sphaero]

Is there not also an alternative argument that in order for Neuer to play the ball he has to come through Higuain? Usually when that happens with a standard slide tackle a free kick is the outcome.

He doesn´t. He jumps forward straight for the ball. It is actually Higuain who runs into Neuer, causing his head to be hit by the latter´s thigh. Otherwise he would have been hit by the knee.

This is a typical case of an unfortunate collision on the field. I don´t see any dangerous play here, because what Neuer does is a completely natural body movement to get more elevation into his jump. Furthermore Goalkeepers are explictively taught to jump like that, not really because of the added elevation but out of protection. By lifting his knee he shifts his center of gravitiy towards his middle, gaining balance in the air and making his body more compact. What happens if you jump with two stretched legs is that there is a high chance to be flipped with an impact from the side, potentially crashing to the ground with the back of his head or neck first. Even from this height this could easily cripple him.

 

[Pink Moon]

Lets get something clear. Do you think Neuer intentionally kneed Higuain in the face? Because a lot of stuff you are coming out with now is nonsense ie "if I run up behind him and flatten him".
Neuer did not run up behind Higuain and flatten him, he went to win the ball and did so very well. Higuain was trying to get possession but was never going to get there ahead of Neuer and got flattened ( Neuer himself could have got injured due to the collision).
It was a coming together between 2 players, one (Neuer) who had a clear advantage due to the fact he could use his hands.
Players colliding accidentally is something that does happen on the football field.
Again I will say it was excellent goalkeeping from Neuer.

No. I thought it was an innocent challenge (though, for the hundredth time, a reckless and dangerous one).

I didn't claim that Neuer did run up behind him and flatten him. I used an example of how "having possession" is irrelevant.

It may well have been excellent goalkeeping from Neuer. I've never disputed that. My claim is it was a challenge which was reckless and endangered an opponent. I really don't see how anyone could deny that much.

 

[Pink Moon]

LOL what a lie. The ball was waaaay over his head, how could he chest the ball? Big LOL.

Never a foul by Neuer. Just look at how Romero went with his leg fully extended against Klose. Romero knew full well that he was protected by the rules.

Pathetic by the argies to complain about Neuer, to call the ref ladron, thief, when their own gk was doing the same thing. What sore losers.

It's not a lie. Look at the footage. You can clearly see him motioning to chest the ball. Whether or not that was a possibility due to the onrushing Neuer is once again irrelevant. Big LOL indeed.

 

[Fritz]

It's not a lie. Look at the footage. You can clearly see him motioning to chest the ball. Whether or not that was a possibility due to the onrushing Neuer is once again irrelevant. Big LOL indeed.

Motioning to chest the ball when the ball was 1m above his head. BIG LOL indeed. And a BIG LIE also to claim that it's irrelevant. He had no way of getting the possesion of the ball before Neuer.

 

[Pink Moon]

Motioning to chest the ball when the ball was 1m above his head. BIG LOL indeed. And a BIG LIE also to claim that it's irrelevant. He had no way of getting the possesion of the ball before Neuer.

The ball was 1m above his head, you're correct. However, there's this thing called gravity, you know? Half a second later the ball wouldn't be 1m above his head, would it?

 

[Rep of Mancunia]

No. I thought it was an innocent challenge (though, for the hundredth time, a reckless and dangerous one).

I didn't claim that Neuer did run up behind him and flatten him. I used an example of how "having possession" is irrelevant.

It may well have been excellent goalkeeping from Neuer. I've never disputed that. My claim is it was a challenge which was reckless and endangered an opponent. I really don't see how anyone could deny that much.

Agree, people debating about rules being different for keepers, when the fact is, it shouldn't be.
The reason you can't have your leg at head height to control a loose ball is due to the danger on the opposition player, that danger doesn't change if you have a "1" on your back and wear gloves.

Oh and I'm not being soft, I think footballers are far too protected these days but those are the rules, just they appear to be applied inconsistently

 

[rcoobc]

 

[Grinner]

If a player does that to a keeper then it's a foul every time.

 

[Big Papi]

http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1709623-el-penal-para-la-argentina-que-el-arbitro-nunca-vio

something's wrong with that

As they say in GAA, the ball was there. The hit was almost incidental. No peno.

Like, it's hardly Schumacher/Battiston, now is it?