Neither would our coaches,tbf.
Honestly,if Ole were to leave today,what top 20 club would go near him ?
How are we SO bad?
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Honestly,if Ole were to leave today,what top 20 club would go near him ?
Two different approaches:
1. Good attackers that will make good use of the ball the few times they get it in a good position.
2. Dominating possession/good midfielders that will make our attackers get the ball in good positions many times during the game.
Good point about the coaches. Carrick and McKenna should either go back to youth team or get some experience in lower divisions. Phelan is obsolete.
Coaching. Don't know what the feck we do in training
Van Gaal inherited a squad with Nani, Valencia, Young, Zaha and Januzaj plus we bought him Martial, Depay and Di Maria.
Him crying about wingers is like Mourinho crying about centre backs after he sold Blind and bought Lindelof and Bailly.
He just had a inherently negative tactical approach plus made the ludicrous decision to build around Rooney when Rooney was already way past his best.
A- Horrible recruitment. That include even during Ole's time. Irrespective of how good the players are you don't spend 130m+ on defence only to start the season with a non existent midfield and forward line
B- Horrible squad. This side stinks of of an EPL mid table quality team.
C- Our manager is clueless. Ole is a nice person and his heart is in the right place but he's seriously out of depth. Sure the squad isn't great but there's still talent there to beat the likes of Rochdale, West Ham, Partizan and co comfortably.
D- Our board is clueless. From Ole's signing on a permanent basis right to the fact we gave contract renewals to the likes of Rojo, Jones, Mata and Young, its pretty evident that the board is clueless.
I'd say tackle the issue bottom up
D- Separate business from football. Woodward can keep all his sponsors, his spreadsheets and his title but let a football CEO handle football (Marotta or VDS). Meanwhile we should hire Mitchell as DOF. He's a Manchester lad, he understand the EPL very well and he's been outside the UK enough to understand that English football is not the beginning and the end of football. Ole can stay as vice president if he wants to. Every club has a former player at board level and having someone who knows a bit of football and had worked with the lads like Ole did would help make the transition period as short as possible.
C- Hire Rangnick. Unlike the typical modern manager whose a glorified head coach, Rangnick had served in different roles from manager to sporting director. He's the closest there is out there to a Sir Alex Ferguson. Having a friendly face around who understand EPL football like Mitchell does will help him settle quickly.
A-B- Hopefully with an experienced board team managing things up, we'll be able to handle a high staff turnover. We need to brace ourselves for 3-4 busy summer transfer windows, with many players leaving and alot of signings (mostly bargains) made. We can't blow most of our budget on a decent but not world class player only to start the season with glaring weaknesses elsewhere.
B- Horrible squad. This side stinks of of an EPL mid table quality team.
C- Our manager is clueless. Ole is a nice person and his heart is in the right place but he's seriously out of depth. Sure the squad isn't great but there's still talent there to beat the likes of Rochdale, West Ham, Partizan and co comfortably.
D- Our board is clueless. From Ole's signing on a permanent basis right to the fact we gave contract renewals to the likes of Rojo, Jones, Mata and Young, its pretty evident that the board is clueless.
I'd say tackle the issue bottom up
D- Separate business from football. Woodward can keep all his sponsors, his spreadsheets and his title but let a football CEO handle football (Marotta or VDS). Meanwhile we should hire Mitchell as DOF. He's a Manchester lad, he understand the EPL very well and he's been outside the UK enough to understand that English football is not the beginning and the end of football. Ole can stay as vice president if he wants to. Every club has a former player at board level and having someone who knows a bit of football and had worked with the lads like Ole did would help make the transition period as short as possible.
C- Hire Rangnick. Unlike the typical modern manager whose a glorified head coach, Rangnick had served in different roles from manager to sporting director. He's the closest there is out there to a Sir Alex Ferguson. Having a friendly face around who understand EPL football like Mitchell does will help him settle quickly.
A-B- Hopefully with an experienced board team managing things up, we'll be able to handle a high staff turnover. We need to brace ourselves for 3-4 busy summer transfer windows, with many players leaving and alot of signings (mostly bargains) made. We can't blow most of our budget on a decent but not world class player only to start the season with glaring weaknesses elsewhere.
Don’t over complicate it.
Our 2 most creative players have been injured.
By the end of the season we will be in the top 4 - comfortably.
Our 2 most creative players have been injured.
By the end of the season we will be in the top 4 - comfortably.
Probably true to some extent until we actually had something to play for then we just shat the bed. Been like that so long now those sheets definitely need changing.But but Ole was supposedly the man who took them off the leash and gave them freedom after what the bad Jose did.
We are solid in defense, but struggle to create big chances and when we do manage to create a decent chance, we tend to miss them way to often
It makes us incredibly predictable and it also makes us very easy to defend against since if you manage to shut down the passing lanes, all we do is recycle the ball backwards or shuffle it sideways. Its the reason why Martial has always been double/tripple marked when hes in good form. Take him out, and there are no one capable of creating space by bypassing one or two players.
Then you add the fact that outside of Pogba we have no one who has the vision/ability to hit defense splitting passes. I like McTomminay, but hes hardly the most creative midfielder in the league. Mata, Lingaard, Pereira, Fred, Matic and McTomminay has 1 goal and 2 assists between them in the PL. The fact that James have been more productive then all of them combined says a lot
Not saying that Ole and the coaches are blameless here, but we still have a long road ahead before we can start hoping to win anything of note. Mata is done at the top level, Lingaard is Lingaard, Pereira is not United quality (6 goals in 60 apps in Spain), Fred is barely a footballer, Matic is done and McTomminay would be a typical squad player under Fergie. Basically we need an entirely new midfield
This. If i gun to head had to come up with a reason to our dreadful attack, its the lack of decent dribblers in our entire MF/attack. Martial/Pogba can do it on their good days, but outside of that we have no one that has the ability/confidence to carry the ball forward with their feet. Rashford tries to do it at times, but its usually just in a straight line and he has a serious case of tunnel vision when on the ball
It makes us incredibly predictable and it also makes us very easy to defend against since if you manage to shut down the passing lanes, all we do is recycle the ball backwards or shuffle it sideways. Its the reason why Martial has always been double/tripple marked when hes in good form. Take him out, and there are no one capable of creating space by bypassing one or two players.
Then you add the fact that outside of Pogba we have no one who has the vision/ability to hit defense splitting passes. I like McTomminay, but hes hardly the most creative midfielder in the league. Mata, Lingaard, Pereira, Fred, Matic and McTomminay has 1 goal and 2 assists between them in the PL. The fact that James have been more productive then all of them combined says a lot
Not saying that Ole and the coaches are blameless here, but we still have a long road ahead before we can start hoping to win anything of note. Mata is done at the top level, Lingaard is Lingaard, Pereira is not United quality (6 goals in 60 apps in Spain), Fred is barely a footballer, Matic is done and McTomminay would be a typical squad player under Fergie. Basically we need an entirely new midfield
It boils my blood when people say that because of xyz reasons, Ole needs to given more time while at the same time I see other clubs recruit managers and go from strength to strength.
Every single of our top 6 rivals have recruited a new manager since Fergie has left and, with the exception of Arsenal, have seen success. Even Chelsea currently suddenly look like a proper team with some style of play and goals coming from players who were with Championship teams last year.
You can understand that a manager needs time when you see flashes of what is going to come. For example: if we were looking a proper team against the likes of Newcastle, Brighton etc. and getting stuffed against the bigger ones, we could suppose that addition of quality could get us there. But we get outplayed by every team
People such as Gary Neville never question the tactical side of our football along with Ole's part in the shambolic decision making that is going on. Even in the summer, with regards to Lukaku he had quoted that every sold player would be replaced and for Sanchez that he would play more than what people expect. For the first time since Fergie has left, not only do we have an incompetent manager on board, but we also have a squad which can't even be called under-performing anymore. And to have this done with little resistance, or as "part of the plan" as it's being quoted, is downright criminal.
Every single of our top 6 rivals have recruited a new manager since Fergie has left and, with the exception of Arsenal, have seen success. Even Chelsea currently suddenly look like a proper team with some style of play and goals coming from players who were with Championship teams last year.
You can understand that a manager needs time when you see flashes of what is going to come. For example: if we were looking a proper team against the likes of Newcastle, Brighton etc. and getting stuffed against the bigger ones, we could suppose that addition of quality could get us there. But we get outplayed by every team
People such as Gary Neville never question the tactical side of our football along with Ole's part in the shambolic decision making that is going on. Even in the summer, with regards to Lukaku he had quoted that every sold player would be replaced and for Sanchez that he would play more than what people expect. For the first time since Fergie has left, not only do we have an incompetent manager on board, but we also have a squad which can't even be called under-performing anymore. And to have this done with little resistance, or as "part of the plan" as it's being quoted, is downright criminal.
We were marginally better under two experienced managers like LvG and Mourinho, and we had a marginally better squad as well.
individually our squad is not that bad but we are missing so many important pieces.
We need a central playmaker, defensively strong midfielder, an attacking midfielder that can offer some quick feet and crisp passing in the last third, a clever striker that always is in right place in the box, fullbacks that can offer more in attack, a player that is actually comfortable on the right wing.
We have a few young promising players like Williams, Laird, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner that could fill those positions, but they need time. Developing these players right is essential but we need to strike gold in the transfermarket as well. We need patience as much as a new manager i think.
individually our squad is not that bad but we are missing so many important pieces.
We need a central playmaker, defensively strong midfielder, an attacking midfielder that can offer some quick feet and crisp passing in the last third, a clever striker that always is in right place in the box, fullbacks that can offer more in attack, a player that is actually comfortable on the right wing.
We have a few young promising players like Williams, Laird, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner that could fill those positions, but they need time. Developing these players right is essential but we need to strike gold in the transfermarket as well. We need patience as much as a new manager i think.
I don't think we are 'bad'.
Clearly we are not as good as we used to be, but our results , especially against the better teams, beating Chelsea and Leicester, drawing with Liverpool and Arsenal, should have beat Wolves and Southampton suggest we have some hope of better things. The only really poor performance was West Ham, still can't work out how we lost to Palace.
We are transitioning and because of the poor succession planning for when SAF went, we have struggled as a club. However supporters support, 'thick and thin', good times and bad, "always look on the bright side of Life" etc.
Clearly we are not as good as we used to be, but our results , especially against the better teams, beating Chelsea and Leicester, drawing with Liverpool and Arsenal, should have beat Wolves and Southampton suggest we have some hope of better things. The only really poor performance was West Ham, still can't work out how we lost to Palace.
We are transitioning and because of the poor succession planning for when SAF went, we have struggled as a club. However supporters support, 'thick and thin', good times and bad, "always look on the bright side of Life" etc.
And even in that spell he was lucky to dodge at least two nailed on red cards. How he and Jones are still with us is baffling
Some great suggestions here. Ed has literally tried all types of different managers etc, it's now time to hand the reigns of footballing decisions to the best in the business. We as fans, well most I talk to anyway, have realised that the issues at the club are not just with the first team players and management but in the whole atmosphere around the club. It will have to work hand in hand before we are to be successful again.
We are so bad because everything about the club smacks of "bang average". From top to bottom. In saying that, theres just no excuse for the lifeless, insipid displays we have been put through since Ole took over. All of that is on him and the coaches. Between AZ and PB we had two shots on target . TWO. Disgraceful.
Yeah but look at the team that faced Feyenoord at home for example:
Ibrahimovic
Mata-Rooney-Mkhitaryan
Carrick-Pogba
Shaw-Blind-Jones-Valencia
Even though it’s a team made up from players past their prime it’s still a far cry from what we’re fielding currently.
From back to front to Manager
1) The keeper is massively overrated (XG backs this up)
2) All CB's are slow and this means United rely on playing deep, handy for catching teams on the break, but a challange if United want to dominate a team
3) No LB good enough to play in a top half team
4) RB is solid, but lacks they dynamism of a team trying to dominate with the ball
5) MF is awful - most teams in PL stronger
6) Pogba is untrustworthy and costs points when he turns up and decides he cant be arse
7) Strikers cant finish (XG backs this up)
8) Coach is tactically out of his depth
9) Coaching, players do not seem to be developing understanding with each other
10) Fitness - team continue to look overtrained, injury prone and not fit for 90 mins (Arsenal & L'pool games)
11) Sh*t run of injuries
1) The keeper is massively overrated (XG backs this up)
2) All CB's are slow and this means United rely on playing deep, handy for catching teams on the break, but a challange if United want to dominate a team
3) No LB good enough to play in a top half team
4) RB is solid, but lacks they dynamism of a team trying to dominate with the ball
5) MF is awful - most teams in PL stronger
6) Pogba is untrustworthy and costs points when he turns up and decides he cant be arse
7) Strikers cant finish (XG backs this up)
8) Coach is tactically out of his depth
9) Coaching, players do not seem to be developing understanding with each other
10) Fitness - team continue to look overtrained, injury prone and not fit for 90 mins (Arsenal & L'pool games)
11) Sh*t run of injuries
At this point I'd go for a serious restructuring process however it mustn't stop there. Ideally we won't go out picking the best people from across the world. That would take us ages to hire and + they will need time to adapt to one another. Instead we use our brains for once and bring in top quality people who can settle with United quite quickly. VDS knows United inside out, Mitchell is a Manchester lad, he's got experience in the EPL and he probably knows a thing or two about our problems. With Mitchell on board we can bring in someone who had worked with the guy already. In a football world were managers are glorified head coach Rangnick is the closest thing there is out there to a Sir Alex. He's been a top manager, he knows the business and he understand how transfers work having serves as a sporting director as well. Finally lets make the transition even smoother by putting Ole at board level. It will serve us as a perfect kick upstairs move which would avoid us from having to sack a legend but also it would mean not to lose this wealth of experience about the current side which Ole had gained in the past few months. Players won't be given the 'benefit of the doubt' this time round. If they were shit this season they won't make it to next season.
How are we not bad? I'm genuinely curious as to how anyone can think that.
We are 14th in the league, just two points above the relegation zone. We haven't scored more than once in a game since the season opener. We failed to register a shot on target in open play against Partizan Beograd. The list of comical stats go on and on. If beating Leicester at home and almost beating Wolves and Southamption now somehow pass as achievements, we really are in dire straits.
I agree that we are in transition and the one encouraging thing is that our signings in the summer seem to have hit the mark. If we can replicate that in the next transfers windows, while also getting rid of some of the deadwood (Mata, Matic, Lingard, Young, etc.) we should improve.
On the other hand it is blindingly obvious that the coaching is also at fault. Compare us to Chelsea who also have a new, young manager, have to rely on inexperienced academy players and lack traditional star power. They play with a cohesion and energy we can only dream of. You just have to wonder what is actually going during the week in training, because what we are seeing on the pitch is horrendous.
Not much by the sounds of it. I read somewhere the players say that McKenna's coaching is awful.
And I would be over the moon if this happened. I really can't understand any rational of not doing what you just said. Rangnick and Campos have already intimated that they would love the challenge of working for us. Having read Rangnick's recent interviews, to me anyway, it suggests he prefers the DoF role, rather than the manager/coach role. However, a duo of Mitchell and Rangnick, for a year at least, working as head recruiter and coach would be a great start. Then eventually moving Rangnick up as an official DoF with someone like Marco Rose coaching the team.
On Ole, I'm not sure what purpose it would solve by putting him up in the boardroom. I think his poor success as a manager would effect his credibility on the bard.
- Awful manager
- No tactics or direction, equaling in our players not knowing what to do
- Mediocre players starting (Lingard, Pereira, Mata now etc.)
- Sold 4 experienced internationals and replaced them with kids, some of whom were part of a youth team that got relegated
- Woodward at the helm who is clueless
All of those factors added
- No tactics or direction, equaling in our players not knowing what to do
- Mediocre players starting (Lingard, Pereira, Mata now etc.)
- Sold 4 experienced internationals and replaced them with kids, some of whom were part of a youth team that got relegated
- Woodward at the helm who is clueless
All of those factors added
I'd add the owners into this too.
Watching Ole in interviews, he sounds like a clueless fan... he squirms and you can't help but squirm with him. He should be released from this purgatory before it destroys him. Back to square one? No, we never left it since his arrival.
The midfield is very weak. We have no control. Defensively, poorly shielded because they don't act as the 1st of 2 lines of defence, offensively, because they lack vision and courage.
It's a different league ability wise to the team we had out last night.
So, according to this video, United overperformed in Ole's earlier games because they had a better goal difference than their xG coefficient. Great, got it.
This season, based on xG they have the best defence in the league and 5th best at chance creation. The team is missing lots of chances. This is a squad that lost their 2 marquee forwards and replaced them with a winger from Swansea and have been without their first choice number 9 and most creative midfield player for most of the season, regularly only having one fit forward who is inconsistent even at his best.
So . . . . . it's obviously because they are missing chances because of the lack of quality forwards in the side. Right? Right?
Wrong. It's because Harry Maguire passes through the lines more than Fred and McTominay.
Logic, I hardly knew ye.
We have had the current system since prior Sir Matt so moving to a head coach/DOF system won't be easy. Hence why its ideal to have an experienced manager who had covered many different roles as manager + a DOF who knows the EPL well and had previously worked with the manager. Once the system is in place, the squad had settled down and everyone would have understood his job then Rangnick might move upstairs or retire and we'll be in a good position to maybe bring Nagelsmann in.
Regarding Ole I am not a big fan of the man. However keeping him makes sense
a- its good PR. With so many Ole's mates in punditry, the last thing a team in transition needs is to be under the scrutiny of a vindictive lot who had just seen their mate fired. They are far less likely to attack the club if there are 1-2 familiar faces at board level
b- Ole had been at the club long enough to identify the rotten apples. He might have no idea about how to handle the situation and other details such as tactics but his feedback will be necessary to cut the transition period short
c- Fans love having someone to relate to at board level. Having VDS as CEO and Ole as a board member is far better for them then a bunch of people who come from the corporate world and whom they have never even heard off.
d- when things go South, its always good to have someone who can slot in and cover a given role temporarily with no hidden agenda or exterior ambitions. AC Milan used to have Tassotti, Inter had Beppe Baresi, Ole can do the job for us.
You missed the point a bit. The video clearly says we don’t create enough from open play. And then goes on to explain a little bit about why regarding our passing and lack of risk taking in midfield
These are the football decisions that Ed attributed to our 'brilliant football men'.
Reasons for bad results in recent years?
1.) Sir Alex left behind a poor (but over achieving) squad.
2.) Poor selections of managers (Moyes not up for such task obviously, LVG most overrrated manager ever, Mourinho very short term solution)
3.) Too frequent changes of manager
4.) David Gill left at the same time as Sir Alex and Woodward obviously isn't up for such task.
5.) Glazers draining money out of the club
6.) Bad transfer decisions (due to constant changes of managers and lack of DoF)
1.) Sir Alex left behind a poor (but over achieving) squad.
2.) Poor selections of managers (Moyes not up for such task obviously, LVG most overrrated manager ever, Mourinho very short term solution)
3.) Too frequent changes of manager
4.) David Gill left at the same time as Sir Alex and Woodward obviously isn't up for such task.
5.) Glazers draining money out of the club
6.) Bad transfer decisions (due to constant changes of managers and lack of DoF)
Great post
"What do you mean, I'm not making sense? This is Fox News isn't it?"
Were we sh3te to watch in this campaign with a reasonably full squad? I though we looked quite good for the first 2 or 3 games plus pre season, until we got decimated by injuries and then it's a question of having terrible quality when it comes to strength in depth. With our best 11 fit i think we looked ok and we will hopefully see this again in the coming games.
If the question is about the last 3-4 years, then i'd say it's a mix of not having a clear goal for what we want to play and also bad transfers/ player quality. The chop and changing of managers and playing styles is the big answer IMO as it takes time for players to adapt to something completely different (like from Mourinho to Ole/ Moyes to LVG). Changing the play style and culture of a club takes time, be it under SAF, or Klopp or even Guardiola.
The club has been run very poorly from a CEO level. I think this has changed by finally having a strategy in place, but i could be wrong and in a few weeks or months we fire Ole and appoint another short term manager like Allegri.
Due to this poor strategy from the top i think now we are left with no patience what so ever for any rebuilding process. Feels like we've been crap for so long that no matter who comes in should have success and play the right way from the get go, as if they were responsible for all of this.
It just goes to show how important SAF was to the club and how much the owners depended on him to make the right decision an all football matters. With him gone, we see the truth of the club leadership: money men with f all knowledge of actually running a football club.
Points (1) and (4) no longer apply six seasons and a billions spent in transfer fees later. I think the biggest issue at United is the lack of someone permanent with executive authority making decisions on the football side; these decisions include what is our long term football objective and identifying the kind of people we need to have in place to achieve that (managers, coaches, fitness, data people and players).
After 2013 I think the board tried to take a short cut to success. Bring in a top coach and spend loads of money on the team but unfortunately Van Gaal, much as he did well at the WC, was a top but personally flawed coach and though we did spend a lot we didn't spend that much like what Madrid did in 09 or last summer. We spent big on Di Maria, Herrera and Shaw but compromised massively in quality on Rojo and Blind whilst disposing of the last explosive winger we had at the time Nani.
It's been downhill ever since because every opportunity to strengthen has been hamstrung by the need to rectify the previous manager's poor decisions. We need a massive window where we get rid of every poor player we have and sign 5 or 6 players at once. Doing it piecemeal won't cut it because the few new players you do bring in will be corrupted by the dross that has overstayed and played a part in at least two managerial sackings.
Amazing how much nonsense I've seen written about Rangnick since that one tweet saying United were considering him for a role at Old Trafford. The closest thing out there to Ferguson is a guy in his 60s who has won far less in his entire career than Ferguson managed at Aberdeen? Good grief.
His managerial career was extremely average with him getting sacked more often than not and his fairly brief time as a DoF has been massively overhyped since we were linked with him.
The players are either shit or lazy. Or both. Too many are not fit to wear the shirt or have attitude problems.
It’s been three managers in a row now where too many do not present themselves on the pitch like a Manchester United player should do. It’s disgraceful what they get away with on the park and people blame coaches for not developing millionaire internationals. They can feck off.
It’s been three managers in a row now where too many do not present themselves on the pitch like a Manchester United player should do. It’s disgraceful what they get away with on the park and people blame coaches for not developing millionaire internationals. They can feck off.
Are you being serious? Based on what evidence?
My big concern is how are we going to do this? We already need two CM and a RW for certain. Most want a LB because Shaw is not reliable fitness wise. Based on the form of Rashford and Martial we also need a striker. That is 5 players before we have got rid of anyone.
Matic is certain to go at the end of the season, we won't renew his contract. I would expect Young to leave as well. For me Pogba is certain to push his way out. He will have two years left on his contract, won't renew, and we will be forced to sell to make money on him. At this rate we will need 3-4 midfielders!