How bad have our injuries really been this season?

[tomaldinho1]

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I swear we had one recently, did Ragnick/Ole not have one?

I still think the main reason is that we've had a shockingly unfit squad for some time and the uptick in intensity is creating the exact same scenario that happened when Klopp went to Pool. Then you inevitably get the stories about training being too much and players not being happy because they are resisting the change. Regardless of if ETH stays or goes, this needs to happen - for many years many of us have commented on just how lethargic/slow/unfit a lot of our players seem week to week. Standards dropped off, we have a series of coaches who had no interest in pressing (or said they did but didn't know how to coach it) and the base level of fitness dropped off.

 

[Urescoredatanfield]

Unfortunately the injury problems, the lethargic matchday "performances", even, as suggested, psychological issues, all fall at the managers feet. If it is "over training", surely he would have recognised this, but perhaps the problems run far deeper than simple solutions. Maybe we are witnessing players who are simply not up to the skill and fitness levels required at the top end of the Premier League. The Brentford game only highlighted what we have become, a team, which, has scraped through games ALL season, from the early games v Wolves and Forest we were so fortunate to win. This was the way our season has spluttered along. Unconvincing wins over Burnley, Luton et al. allied to an inability to see a game out I would argue sees us in a false position. We should be a lot nearer the bottom than the top. As for top four.....cloud cuckoo land.

 

[top1whoisman]

Another two defenders taken off injured before the hour mark.

Edit: Not yet.

Edit 2: Now.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Another two defenders taken off injured before the hour mark.

Edit: Not yet.

Edit 2: Now.

Totally normal every club experiences it.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Totally normal every club experiences it.

I think Tottenham even went without one of their CBs for 2 games. We should count ourselves lucky

 

[top1whoisman]

Totally normal every club experiences it.

It’s actually smart finances from the club. Apart from Dalot we’ve only hired part time defenders.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It’s actually smart finances from the club. Apart from Dalot we’ve only hired part time defenders.

Pay per min. We’ve saved millions.

 

[top1whoisman]

Pay per min. We’ve saved millions.

"We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of. Watch this space."

 

[BenitoSTARR]

"We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of. Watch this space."

Dislocatedkneeland

 

[Sandikan]

36 year old Evans coming on in the Premier league one minute feels bad.

Then 20mins later you're thinking oh no, we've got to replace him with someone leagues below.

Our most ludicrous centre back run since that season we played Carrick and Fletcher back there.

 

[Northstand]

We actually have more depth at centre back than any other PL club, when you consider Shaw is as competent there as any of the others. The fact we’re down to one fit player in that position (not for the first time this season), is laughable.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I swear we had one recently, did Ragnick/Ole not have one?

I still think the main reason is that we've had a shockingly unfit squad for some time and the uptick in intensity is creating the exact same scenario that happened when Klopp went to Pool. Then you inevitably get the stories about training being too much and players not being happy because they are resisting the change. Regardless of if ETH stays or goes, this needs to happen - for many years many of us have commented on just how lethargic/slow/unfit a lot of our players seem week to week. Standards dropped off, we have a series of coaches who had no interest in pressing (or said they did but didn't know how to coach it) and the base level of fitness dropped off.

That happened early on in Klopp’s reign and improved over time. It didn’t last as long as our injury issues under ETH. Which are getting worse, rather than better, as we reach the end of his second full season in charge.

 

[reddyornot]

That happened early on in Klopp’s reign and improved over time. It didn’t last as long as our injury issues under ETH. Which are getting worse, rather than better, as we reach the end of his second full season in charge.

Maybe we need Klopp's special medicine, cough cough.

 

[Lincm]

That happened early on in Klopp’s reign and improved over time. It didn’t last as long as our injury issues under ETH. Which are getting worse, rather than better, as we reach the end of his second full season in charge.

the difference is in Klopps early years the team identity and style of play could be seen. They just always ran out of steam towards the end of the season. Yes they were unfit, but in the early part you could see the intensity and attack prowess. With ETH it’s just been consistent inconsistency with the occasional big game raise.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That happened early on in Klopp’s reign and improved over time. It didn’t last as long as our injury issues under ETH. Which are getting worse, rather than better, as we reach the end of his second full season in charge.

You have to factor in the first season we gave up on his single DM idea very quickly though and just played as we did under Ole. This season is essentially the first season where we have committed to whatever his vision really is for the midfield setup.

 

[croadyman]

I think we wouldn't get so many injuries if the games weren't so chaotic. Clearly the training needs to be looked at during the pre season too

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Incredibly bad - one of the worst seasons I can recall. The entire first defence has been butchered by injuries with Shaw and Martinez - I’d argue our two best and most progressive defenders out for a long time. Casemiro and Mainoo have been out for decent chunks of the season. Mount has been out for nearly all of it. Hojlund has had a really disrupted season despite the number of his starts getting injured at key times like the start or when he was on a good run. Martial is Martial. Eriksen I don’t even know what’s happened to him.


It’s still doesn’t excuse the performances but it’s been woeful and we need to review why it’s been this bad as it costs the club millions.

 

[Chairman Steve]

When you have these ludicrous amount of injures over the course of an entire season, maybe you should start looking at the coaching team and ask questions about overtraining and rushing players back from injury.

 

[top1whoisman]

McTominay out injured.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

26 different cb pairing started in 31 games.

At one point most of the senior midfield was out injured save for Mctominay, Bruno and reserve Hannibal

At one point we had no striker available.

At one point we had only one senior fullback available for a full month

 

[Reiver]

They've cost us the League the way some people go on.

 

[SirBillNic]

I swear we had one recently, did Ragnick/Ole not have one?

I still think the main reason is that we've had a shockingly unfit squad for some time and the uptick in intensity is creating the exact same scenario that happened when Klopp went to Pool. Then you inevitably get the stories about training being too much and players not being happy because they are resisting the change. Regardless of if ETH stays or goes, this needs to happen - for many years many of us have commented on just how lethargic/slow/unfit a lot of our players seem week to week. Standards dropped off, we have a series of coaches who had no interest in pressing (or said they did but didn't know how to coach it) and the base level of fitness dropped off.

I think there's definitely something to this, and same could be said of Pochettino at Chelsea. I remember when Poch was at Spurs there was talk about the intensity of training being responsible for the extent of our injuries. It was a double edged sword though because we were also arguably the fittest team in the league for a while.

Another factor imo is the ability to control games. Teams that control games well (probably Arsenal have been the best at it this season tbh) will typically have fewer injuries because they don't have players constantly sprinting back and forth between defense and attack.

 

[mu4c_20le]

They've cost us the League the way some people go on.

They probably did!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

"Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

Tried my best to keep this in chronological order of this season.

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.

Injuries in defence this season, have definitely not helped. "

From @AliceTalksFooty on X

 

[lysglimt]

Really bad - but not bad enough to explain where we are. Or to put it like this - we would be closer to the top without the injuries - but we would still be pretty far away from the top

 

[lysglimt]

"Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

Tried my best to keep this in chronological order of this season.

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.

Injuries in defence this season, have definitely not helped. "

From @AliceTalksFooty on X

Our main defensive problem this season has been our central midfield - not our defenders. We have had a lot of defensive mistakes - but the main issue is that we give so many chances away that sooner or later the opponents score. If our defenders constantly have to defend 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 - sooner or later, we will give a freekick or a penalty away

 

[Zed 101]

"Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

Tried my best to keep this in chronological order of this season.

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.

Injuries in defence this season, have definitely not helped. "

From @AliceTalksFooty on X

Unfortunately this does not list who was available at the start of the match, some of the changes are due to choice by ETH and that is an issue which needs consideration, I would also add that Kambwala has been available and has not played, his performances would warrant more minutes imo.

Even with all of this apart from Kambwala and Amrabat, these are all full international defenders, having a lack of consistency is a problem, but is not an explanation for the shots on goal we are facing each match, I actually think our defenders have been pretty good for the main part, however they are consistently left exposed by lack of support from midfield and attack, that is a coaching issue

People make a lot of our injuries this season, but you look match by match we have been fielding a 1st 11 full of quality players who should in the right set up have been able to perform far better than they have, we have not been fielding kids and championship players, injuries are being used as an excuse for those who are looking for ways to ignore the gaping holes in our coaching and set up

 

[sugar_kane]

Unfortunately this does not list who was available at the start of the match, some of the changes are due to choice by ETH and that is an issue which needs consideration, I would also add that Kambwala has been available and has not played, his performances would warrant more minutes imo.

Even with all of this apart from Kambwala and Amrabat, these are all full international defenders, having a lack of consistency is a problem, but is not an explanation for the shots on goal we are facing each match, I actually think our defenders have been pretty good for the main part, however they are consistently left exposed by lack of support from midfield and attack, that is a coaching issue

People make a lot of our injuries this season, but you look match by match we have been fielding a 1st 11 full of quality players who should in the right set up have been able to perform far better than they have, we have not been fielding kids and championship players, injuries are being used as an excuse for those who are looking for ways to ignore the gaping holes in our coaching and set up

Why does a player being an international hold any significance? Martinez & Varane can't stay fit, Evans is ready for retirement and I'm fairly certain AWB hasn't played for England in a long time?

I agree our defenders deserve more credit due to how exposed they are, but it seems a reach to blame the lack of consistency on Ten Hag and dismiss it as a factor due to them mostly being internationals.

 

[Zed 101]

Why does a player being an international hold any significance? Martinez & Varane can't stay fit, Evans is ready for retirement and I'm fairly certain AWB hasn't played for England in a long time?

I agree our defenders deserve more credit due to how exposed they are, but it seems a reach to blame the lack of consistency on Ten Hag and dismiss it as a factor due to them mostly being internationals.

These are players who are or who have been recognised as being among the elite of their position, inferring a level of capacity, true Varane is no longer international (as he chose to retire), AWB has not played for England for some time, but these are still players who have proven themselves to be good enough.

The point is ETH has not been left playing a team of pub players, he has had elite level players at his disposal, they may not match the style he wants, there may have been chopping and changing, but he has had a 1st 11 each match who should have performed better had they been coached and managed well.

Some would have it that all our woes are due to injuries, that ETH has been left piecing together a patchwork team, I am not going to argue against this having an impact but a good manager would still be getting more out of the group of players he has had at his disposal, I reiterate these are all good players proven at the pinnacle of the game

 

[Cassidy]

Really bad - but not bad enough to explain where we are. Or to put it like this - we would be closer to the top without the injuries - but we would still be pretty far away from the top

We would be comfortably 4th without our crazy injuries in my opinion but level below Arsenal, City and Liverpool (mainly due to lack of squad quality, especially in attack)
I think we really could have done with Mount, Shaw and Martinez being fit this season the technical floor of the team suffers without them. Also Mainoo missed large part of the season too

 

[RedfromIreland]

They've cost us the League the way some people go on.

They have been irrelevant the way other people go on.

 

[Camilo]

We don't play with the ball like a big club, and we don't sit back organised and compact like a small club. City players know exactly the amount of energy they're going to use before starting a game. They whole thing is a bit like a training exercise for them. We step onto the field and god knows what's going to happen. I reckon the injuries follow. Chaos on the pitch, followed by injuries. Makes sense to me.

 

[Grande]

We don't play with the ball like a big club, and we don't sit back organised and compact like a small club. City players know exactly the amount of energy they're going to use before starting a game. They whole thing is a bit like a training exercise for them. We step onto the field and god knows what's going to happen. I reckon the injuries follow. Chaos on the pitch, followed by injuries. Makes sense to me.

The frustrating thing is that really, we have no idea about what has caused so many injuries this season, and particular in defence. We can speculate, but it really is a wild guessing game. I’m just hoping the staff has a good and thorough analysis of every factor ahead of next seasons pre-season.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Our main defensive problem this season has been our central midfield - not our defenders. We have had a lot of defensive mistakes - but the main issue is that we give so many chances away that sooner or later the opponents score. If our defenders constantly have to defend 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 - sooner or later, we will give a freekick or a penalty away

Here is why I believe we give so many chances away:

Defending includes the work a defense does in tandem with DMs/double pivot, as the front 5/6 press

Our defense thanks to injury has never been settled enough this seaaon to help master control of the space between our derence and midfield as we press as a United. Which tends to open a gap between the front pressers and a defensive 6, with acres of space to be attacked. Impractical ground to sufficiently cover for a sole DM. Let alone a double pivot.

In addition injury (for half the season) and loss of legs has left us with only Mainno with legs in deep midfield to get back to protect, yet we play a man marking scheme off the ball in midfield.

The two issues have thus combined to leave us consistently weak in transitions, with us allowing volumes of shots because we are ever retreating and reacting, and weak to cut backs, since once our midfielder man marker scheme is beaten, we rarely have the legs to plug the hole where the cut backs often end up. On top of our final rest defense line being too far back thanks to the retreating and reacting that causes that pocket in the first place.

Because a retreating defences tends to form a curve as it stops retreating. As the fullbacks try to stop crossers and wide runners and the cbs seek to cover the penalty box. Leaving that pocket of space right infront of them ripe for cut backs.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

"Man Utd have started 31 different back lines in 43 matches this season:

1.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
2.AWB, Varane, Martinez, Dalot
3.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot
4.Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
5.AWB, Lindelof, Martinez, Reguilon
6.Dalot, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
7.AWB, Lindelof, Evans, Reguilon
8.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Amrabat
9.Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Amrabat
10.Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof
11.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
12.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Reguilon
13.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Reguilon
14.Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
15.AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw
16.AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Dalot
17.Dalot Maguire, Shaw, Reguilon
18.Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw
19.Dalot, Evans, Varane, Shaw
20.AWB, Maguire, Evans, Dalot
21.AWB, Kambwala, Evans, Shaw
22.AWB, Varane, Evans, Dalot
23.Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw
24.Dalot, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw
25.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Shaw
26.Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof
27.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, Amrabat
28.Dalot, Varane, Evans, Lindelof
29.Dalot, Lindelof, Varane, AWB
30.AWB, Maguire, Varane, Dalot
31.Dalot, Kambwala, Maguire, AWB

From RB, RCB, LCB, LB

Tried my best to keep this in chronological order of this season.

This Doesn’t include times where injuries have caused backline to change in game. E.g Kambwala coming on at RB, or Bruno playing CB in FA cup vs Pool.

Injuries in defence this season, have definitely not helped. "

From @AliceTalksFooty on X

This highlights our main issue for me. We have issues with midfield and consistency in scoring but I believe you build from the back.

Our best performances last season came when we had a settled back 4 and even when not in control we didn’t concede as easily as this season. I’m not saying we would win the league if things were different but this has a clear effect. I wonder if who compiled the list has other teams for comparison?

Either way an interesting list and adds perspective I feel.

 

[Kellyiom]

Maybe we need Klopp's special medicine, cough cough.

It's a bit of a taboo to even contemplate in discussion of football but it's been proven that enhancements are rife in cycling.

I totally understand football has the skill element but footballers still need recovery time from training, playing and injury. They also need to increase endurance.

And which sport has the greatest financial reward, cycling or football? It's football by a huge margin, 50 or even 100 to 1 I estimate.

 

[DrRodo]

Dont hate me, i know its on vogue to hate ETH

I think these defensive injuries are the main reason of our regression from last season where we kinda of looked like going on the right direction. A lot more plausible than ETH sudde ly forgot how to coach or the players forgot how to play football. Without all these injuries we undoubtedly would be on CL spots

 

[Kellyiom]

We don't play with the ball like a big club, and we don't sit back organised and compact like a small club. City players know exactly the amount of energy they're going to use before starting a game. They whole thing is a bit like a training exercise for them. We step onto the field and god knows what's going to happen. I reckon the injuries follow. Chaos on the pitch, followed by injuries. Makes sense to me.

I think you're mostly right but there are a few factors - injuries happen when :
- an under trained muscle group is over exerted (conditioning issue)
- a player is forced into an unexpected activity (tactical error)
- contact occurs with a player or the ground (often caused by fatigue)

I think a lot of the issues are arising from the different training needs of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles. They react differently to each other so I would be hopeful that INEOS would help here.

There's got to be a reason why our players are injured so often and I don't think it's just bad luck.

 

[Woziak]

ETH has underperformed by exactly 12 points this season; (Bournemouth, Palace, Fulham at home all should be extra 9 points, Chelsea away draw instead of defeat, +1, Forrest away draw +1 and Brighton home draw rather than defeat +1)

United should have P31 W18 D7 L6 61 pts but I would only put 5 or 6 of those lost points down to injuries so the club should still have 55 points.

Really this season is more about a disgraceful, almost delusional managerial performance after spending £400m in two seasons to sign 9 or 10 players he wanted?

 

[mu4c_20le]

A mixture of poor ineffective signings and injuries to key players. Though I would classify those injuries as disruptive rather than season ending, I know we've had worse in the past where our entire first choice backline was out.

Mount - Injured. Role uncertain
Onana - mixed
Hojlund - mixed

That's basically the 2023 summer budget right there. "Take us to the next level after a promising last season"... we'd probably be better off keeping Fred and the 65m on his replacement.