How do we sell Harry Maguire?

[ti vu]

Perhaps he could have had McTominay not run into him

Why do our players often collide with Maguire, and not somebody else? For something that happens not one with the same player, perhaps it's that player and not the others?

Maguire and Shaw for Liverpool rang any bell? Maguire man handled Shaw vs Tottenham? Shaw and Maguire again going after the rebound of DDG penalty save against Watford this season? Shaw and Maguire again defending corner leading to Leceister second goal this season? Maguire headed onto the back of Bailly's head?... to name a few notable off the the top of one head.

Then you have this special Maguire dribbling.

 

[MadDogg]

I have no idea what happened in the 2nd half after a really solid 1st half. I actually think he's been decent recently after a truly horrendous start to the season but that 2nd half was back to the old liability Maguire of the start of the season.

The hysteria on here (and on other social media platforms) is mental - you'd think he's played like he has this season for his entire time at United. I agree he shouldn't be guaranteed to play every game because he's captain but to suggest he's not good enough for this level is ridiculous. 2nd half of last season he was the best in the league and our season fell apart when he got injured. Then made the team of the Euros despite missing the entire group stage - guy was immense! Short memories

He hasn't been this bad previously, but he still hasn't been good enough.

Maguire has been here for over two and a half seasons now, and he's only been consistently good for half a season. Less than a fifth of his total time. The rest of his time has either been very poor (this season) or very inconsistent (his first season and a half) where he's had some great games but immediately followed it up with poor games. I won't even hold the equally terrible first month or two of last season against him since there were special circumstances after what happened in Greece.

I do agree that for that half a season he was right up there as probably the second best (not best) defender in the league, but half a season isn't good enough. I remember Silvestre having half a season where he was probably the second best player in the entire league after Henry (the first half of 03/04), but he's widely considered a failure in central defence as he completely fell apart in the second half of that season and never again got close to that top level before or after that period.

I've liked Maguire from his Hull days and do think we should have taken a punt on him then. We certainly overpaid for him when we signed him from Leicester, but ultimately that's not his fault and I don't hold it against him. I do worry about his lack of pace but otherwise I do think he's capable of being a very good defender for us, and after his second half of last season and his Euro's I thought that it had finally clicked and he was going to be dominant for us. Unfortunately he's completely shit the bed this season and we can't just keep hoping that he'll eventually start showing top form consistently when he hasn't done it for his first three seasons.

Lindelof is equally as error-prone as Maguire, Bailly even more so.

Frustrates me to no end that we're having alternate between 3 bang-average CB's, none of which will ever be good enough for a title-challenging side. It shouldn't be the case for a club with United's resources.

Lindelof doesn't make as many errors as Maguire. His peaks aren't as good as Maguire's, but he's actually more consistent. Which is more an indictment on Maguire since it's not like Lindelof is particularly consistent or error-free himself.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Rodriguez was Verane's man and he doesn't even look at him

Yeah but I mean why are calling him Verane?

Is this because some people still spell Harry's name as Mcguire

 

[redmanx]

Theres talk that we have agreed terms with Barcelona CB Ronald Araujo, though Barcelona say they want to keep him so expect another big money transfer fee for the 22 year old, if the story is true. Maguire is simply not consistent enough and certainly not worth the £80 million we paid for him. Araujo is quality and if he comes to United I think he would soon take Maguires place in the team.

 

[Roboc7]

We’re going to continue playing him for years, like others he’ll continue to be massively overpaid for not being good enough.

 

[Stacks]

this very toxic dude on twitter made a list of all Harry's accomplishments

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Jonno]

He's slow
He's expensive
He's making mistakes
He's a failed regimes captain
He's out of form

But, lets not just re-write history here.

He was also very good for us for most of his first 2 seasons, where he helped us secure 3rd and 2nd place in the PL. This gained us a lot of financial income from CL qualification, which effectively pays the extortion on his transfer fee. If his true market value is £40m-£50m and we paid £80m, then his involvement in back to back CL qualification justifies his fee. Without Maguire in 19/20 we wouldn't have finished top 4. Not a chance

Will he shake off this terrible run of form, maybe....... would I take £50m for him if it came along, YES.

The issue is, when we change managers every 2-3 years, the squad building goes stale and players stay for eternity (Mata, Smalling, Rojo etc). The next manager that comes in is never in a million years going to sell Maguire the same summer.

 

[tomaldinho1]

And the whole thing starts with McTominay running into Maguiire. Perhaps Maguire doesn't get the proper tackle in without McT running into him, but if McT runs goal side of Maguire like he should have, the entire situation is avoided. Possibly. Still can't ignore the fact that Verane doesn't look at the goal scorer once during the play. Watch again if you don't believe me...

Streamja - Simple video sharing

I don't disagree with McT criticism, he was also very slow coming back in general when you watch the replay. Maguire/McT coming together though has no bearing on what follows. I don't see why it would matter if we can't see Varane looking, what would you rather he did other than close the ball down? If you want to criticise multiple players Maguire, McT are mostly to blame and then Shaw plays them onside. Varane, Dalot, DDG could probably could have done more in an ideal world but it'd be harsh.

 

[stevoc]

You don't so we should all make peace with the fact he's going to be part of the squad for a few years yet.

And despite his poor form for most of this season he is a good player, there's much worse in the squad that needs shifting first.

 

[Powderfinger]

The hysteria on here (and on other social media platforms) is mental - you'd think he's played like he has this season for his entire time at United. I agree he shouldn't be guaranteed to play every game because he's captain but to suggest he's not good enough for this level is ridiculous. 2nd half of last season he was the best in the league and our season fell apart when he got injured. Then made the team of the Euros despite missing the entire group stage - guy was immense! Short memories

He has real strengths but also serious weaknesses and therefore he can look really good when put in a setup that plays to his strengths and covers for his weaknesses. Unfortunately that kind of setup - little high line defending, relatively unadventurous fullbacks, two defensive mids shielding in front - just isn't conducive to success for a big club in the modern game.

Take him out of that setup and you give him a lot more difficult situations - defending in transitions, covering space in the channels behind a pushed-up fullback, or being forced to make decisions about when and whether to close down a man receiving the ball between the lines - and he really struggles.

 

[A-man]

Verane?

Verane, McGuire and Bailey.
Driving me nuts

 

[Red Dreams]

he should not play for us again.

 

[red4ever 79]

No better than Michael Keane or Tyrone Mings

 

[ti vu]

He's slow
He's expensive
He's making mistakes
He's a failed regimes captain
He's out of form

But, lets not just re-write history here.

He was also very good for us for most of his first 2 seasons, where he helped us secure 3rd and 2nd place in the PL. This gained us a lot of financial income from CL qualification, which effectively pays the extortion on his transfer fee. If his true market value is £40m-£50m and we paid £80m, then his involvement in back to back CL qualification justifies his fee. Without Maguire in 19/20 we wouldn't have finished top 4. Not a chance

Will he shake off this terrible run of form, maybe....... would I take £50m for him if it came along, YES.

The issue is, when we change managers every 2-3 years, the squad building goes stale and players stay for eternity (Mata, Smalling, Rojo etc). The next manager that comes in is never in a million years going to sell Maguire the same summer.

You sounded like he is an instrumental player, and the driving force of this team, which he's not. That description was more apt only to apply to Bruno. Before Bruno, we're not getting to 66 points for that 3rd place . I mention the point tally here because those rare occasion don't happen too often. After Mourinho meltdown, and Ole took over we finished the previous season on 66 points too and not able to get 4th position! It's not something so impressive that you can leave out the instrumental player like Bruno and make the case about Maguire impact in the team. Our defense is no better than in the normal circumstances under Mourinho. It actually got worse over time.

Maguire's most solid period was toward the end of last season. At the start, he had a period of disastrous form too. Beside the these disastrous period and solid period, in normal circumstances, his true self, he's error prone.

Smalling had 3 seasons as starters helping us qualified for CL, while having very good defensive record as a team. He himself is a stand-alone very good defender. No chance for us to qualified for CL without Maguire? Give me a break.

 

[Mike Smalling]

One thing is for sure: We shouldn't be hindered by what the paid for him. That's a sunk cost. Rather we should be focusing on if he is worth more for us as whatever transfer fee we can get than he is as part of the squad. I would say that if we can get £30m or more, we should sell him.

We also shouldn't forget, that he will be 29 very shortly, so he is not going to improve as a player and his market value will soon decline.

Get rid. I would also love the message it would send. It would let the players know, that if you are not good enough, you are gone. The last years we have done the complete opposite, stringing along the likes Lingard for far too long.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If we have a whip round can we raise enough for someone to take him off our hands?

 

[Escobar]

He just shouldnt start, damn I even prefer Lindelof

 

[Stacks]

He's slow
He's expensive
He's making mistakes
He's a failed regimes captain
He's out of form

But, lets not just re-write history here.

He was also very good for us for most of his first 2 seasons, where he helped us secure 3rd and 2nd place in the PL. This gained us a lot of financial income from CL qualification, which effectively pays the extortion on his transfer fee. If his true market value is £40m-£50m and we paid £80m, then his involvement in back to back CL qualification justifies his fee. Without Maguire in 19/20 we wouldn't have finished top 4. Not a chance

Will he shake off this terrible run of form, maybe....... would I take £50m for him if it came along, YES.

The issue is, when we change managers every 2-3 years, the squad building goes stale and players stay for eternity (Mata, Smalling, Rojo etc). The next manager that comes in is never in a million years going to sell Maguire the same summer.

We have finshed 2nd with Smalling and Jones before. In our 2nd placed finish with Harry we conceded more than Arsenal and Liverpool (entire defence injured) and both seasons we had to play mostly 2 holding players to protect our fragile defence. I believe you ae re-writing history. He was NEVER good enough. Even England need to play a back 3 with Walker (a wingback) tucked next to him AND TWO sitting midfielders. You will never see him do what Bonucci did and take a top striker like Lukaku 1 on 1. Standards have slipped to toxically low levels

 

[Red Dreams]

If we have a whip round can we raise enough for someone to take him off our hands?

Next season we have Mengi coming back.
Lindeloff, Varane, Mengi and this lump.
Just let him go to another team at a cut price.
Not sure if Jones is here or not. I would even bring back Tuanzebe.
Maguire should not play for us.

Captain. ffs

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

We have finshed 2nd with Smalling and Jones before. In our 2nd placed finish with Harry we conceded more than Arsenal and Liverpool (entire defence injured) and both seasons we had to play mostly 2 holding players to protect our fragile defence.

This is a very important point and a big part of why we've been so ... tedious to watch going forward for years now. Under multiple managers.

We posted very good defensive numbers under Van Gaal in 2015/16 (Smalling and Blind at center-back), Mourinho in 2016/17 (usually a combination of Bailly/Rojo/Jones), Mourinho in 2017/18 (Bailly/Jones and Smalling/Jones). But these were all achieved by deploying extremely conservative tactics - we invariably had two sitters in midfield in each of these three seasons, just as we did in 2019/20 and 20/21 with Maguire and Lindelof at CB.

Now having said that, I do think there's a future for a Maguire-Varane pairing even if we try to play a more attacking set-up. Never liked Maguire and he'll never be a world class defender but he's still one of the better center-backs in the league, and Varane has shown flashes of his quality - we've seen improvements in the overall defensive shape under Rangnick and should see even more once these two have had a solid run of games as a partnership (Varane needs to stay fit).

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

No better than Michael Keane or Tyrone Mings

He's better than them, but going back further he's not better than the likes of Lescott or super Jags

 

[RuudtheRed]

Does anyone agree that Mike Smalling (2014/15), who spent years being derided by our fanbase, was a much better defender than the 2021/22 Maguire? Say what you want about Smalling's passing ability or lack thereof, but we could trust him to defend properly. I think Maguire is a good player, but he's been terrible this season.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Does anyone agree that Mike Smalling (2014/15), who spent years being derided by our fanbase, was a much better defender than the 2021/22 Maguire? Say what you want about Smalling's passing ability or lack thereof, but we could trust him to defend properly. I think Maguire is a good player, but he's been terrible this season.

Up until this season I’d have said Maguire was better but not by much and deffo not 80 million better. Now they’re about level seeing as how Maguire has taken the whole season off.

 

[Jackal981]

Does anyone agree that Mike Smalling (2014/15), who spent years being derided by our fanbase, was a much better defender than the 2021/22 Maguire? Say what you want about Smalling's passing ability or lack thereof, but we could trust him to defend properly. I think Maguire is a good player, but he's been terrible this season.

Remember those Smalldini memes ? Maguire can only reach that level of play in his dream when he fell asleep at night

 

[Stacks]

This is a very important point and a big part of why we've been so ... tedious to watch going forward for years now. Under multiple managers.

We posted very good defensive numbers under Van Gaal in 2015/16 (Smalling and Blind at center-back), Mourinho in 2016/17 (usually a combination of Bailly/Rojo/Jones), Mourinho in 2017/18 (Bailly/Jones and Smalling/Jones). But these were all achieved by deploying extremely conservative tactics - we invariably had two sitters in midfield in each of these three seasons, just as we did in 2019/20 and 20/21 with Maguire and Lindelof at CB.

Now having said that, I do think there's a future for a Maguire-Varane pairing even if we try to play a more attacking set-up. Never liked Maguire and he'll never be a world class defender but he's still one of the better center-backs in the league, and Varane has shown flashes of his quality - we've seen improvements in the overall defensive shape under Rangnick and should see even more once these two have had a solid run of games as a partnership (Varane needs to stay fit).

Maybe with 2 DMC playing or we play 3 at the back

 

[Rozay]

As quickly as possible.

 

[Abizzz]

Does anyone agree that Mike Smalling (2014/15), who spent years being derided by our fanbase, was a much better defender than the 2021/22 Maguire? Say what you want about Smalling's passing ability or lack thereof, but we could trust him to defend properly. I think Maguire is a good player, but he's been terrible this season.

Could have sworn his name was Chris but otherwise agree.

 

[Andre Kagawa]

Could have sworn his name was Chris but otherwise agree.

Noob.

 

[Lemon Moon]

We don't. We shoot him.
(I'm joking, he'll come good, just going through an extended rough patch)

 

[Mike Smalling]

Could have sworn his name was Chris but otherwise agree.

You are mistaken.

 

[Andre Kagawa]

You are mistaken.

Username checks out

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I still think he’s our 2nd best defender overall, but with some seriously huge errors this season. Wouldn’t surprise me if he had a personal issue outside of football

 

[Toblerone92]

Feck me, if I see somebody spell Varane as Verane one more time I’m going to have an aneurysm.

 

[carlbcfc]

Send him to Everton

 

[Redlyn]

this very toxic dude on twitter made a list of all Harry's accomplishments

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That is a shocking read tbh. We paid 80m for that

 

[Mihai]

Verane, McGuire and Bailey.
Driving me nuts

Janujaz

 

[FootyGirl88]

I said this 2 years ago, my opinion hasn’t changed.

I think we should loan him till we can get reasonably fee. Im sure this is what Chelsea would do. We need to accept we got it wrong and move on.

 

[Chicharo]

It's not so easy to bench your captain especially if he also happens to be English. He'll remain a starter until the summer transfer window, after that who knows... I don't see many clubs being eager to buy him

 

[BusbyMalone]

For a massive loss.

This is why he's a huge issue. He's the most expensive CB in history (), the club are obviously gonna want to see some return on that huge investment. That's not going to come from a transfer fee because no team are stupid enough like us to pay it, so it's going to come from him being in the team week in, week out. I just don't see the club being too enthused about having an £80m player, who's also your captain, relegated to being third/fourth choice. But that's what he is. He's a £30-40m (at the most) squad player. That's how he should be used.

Unfortunately, I can't ever see that being the case due to the aforementioned price and responsibility he's been given. It's a huge feck up. I just don't see how we get out of this, beyond having a manager come in and having the stones (and the leeway) to strip him of his captaincy and relegating him to a squad player to the point where he may feel he wants to feck off.

 

[Stacks]

That is a shocking read tbh. We paid 80m for that

Made captain. That sets the standards at the club. acceptance of failure