How good was peak Kaka?

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
858
Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Neymar.

He's closer to Roberto Carlos, Alves and Adriano than to those four, imo.
Neymar above him?
 

Gonçalo Motta

Full Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
218
Great player but like most players, he tends to be overrated over time.

Don't get me wrong, he was a great player to watch and had a decent number of magic moments but he wasn't all that. He benefits from being very likeable as a player and had a great skillset overall but his peak was way too short and it could be argued that Ronaldo had a better season (performance wise) than him in the year he won the ballon d'or.

I feel like he is overrated for the same reason Zidane usually is. Alot of his magic moments / unplayable games were in big games that people remember but unlike Zidane, his peak doing that was way shorter. The lesser games he barely showed up or made anything remarkable for the most part.

When he was on tune, he was really enjoyable to watch though.
 
Last edited:

B20

HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
24,390
Location
Disney Land
Supports
Liverpool
You don’t think that Kaka could have played as a winger?

I have seen relatively slow #10 players like Coutinho, Ozil and Isco play on the wing deliver truly great performances.

Kaka was much faster and more athletic than any of them.
He was also a bit like riquelme in that he only really shone in the very privileged position Ancelotti carved out for him in Milan's midfield. Versatility was not something I'd associate with him.
 

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
858
Yes. Clearly. Both in terms of raw ability, but also what he's done with Barcelona and Brazil.
I don’t think Neymar performed better for Barcelona than Kaka did for Milan.
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
9,846
Location
England
I don’t think Neymar performed better for Barcelona than Kaka did for Milan.
Neymar had 39 goals for Barcelona one season and 31 the next. He really gets underrated on here. He carried Barca at times and stepped up in the absence of Messi.

Kaka was brilliant but his Serie A form was always patchy for me. I still think seeing Kaka run through the centre with the ball is one of the best footballing sights though. Pure poetry.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
1,941
I'd be interested to see who you have ahead of him, I'd be struggling beyond R9 and Ronaldinho.
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
And unpopular opinion Neymar

Marcelo also has a fair shout for consistency at the top level
 

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
858
Neymar had 39 goals for Barcelona one season and 31 the next. He really gets underrated on here. He carried Barca at times and stepped up in the absence of Messi.

Kaka was brilliant but his Serie A form was always patchy for me. I still think seeing Kaka run through the centre with the ball is one of the best footballing sights though. Pure poetry.
In his last couple seasons he had a 1 in 2 record in Serie A, the most defensive league in the world at the time as a number 10.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
17,455
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
You don’t think that Kaka could have played as a winger?

I have seen relatively slow #10 players like Coutinho, Ozil and Isco play on the wing deliver truly great performances.

Kaka was much faster and more athletic than any of them.
If you was naming any of the aboves best position though you wouldn't have them out on the wing. You'd have them at 10 and they all have that ball retention and rotation I mentioned originally in my first post (barring possibly Coutinho, who himself doesn't have a true position)
 

Bill.s.preston

Fluffybunnykins - needs to bulk up (with cake!)
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
24,155
Location
delete me.
Kaka was exceptional. Unfortunately he picked up a bad injury around the time he went to Madrid and was never quite the same.

I was at the champions league semi final at old trafford when Kaka and Rooney ripped it up. It was an absolute privilege.

 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,159
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
He was an incredible athlete, was tall and very fast but had the passing and control of a much less athletically gifted player. Was a very unusual combination of attributes.

Shame about all the injuries. Him destroying United at Old Trafford in 2007 is overrated though, that had as much to do with him being great as it had to do with United’s defensive line being injured and the replacements not being good enough.

Heinze-Brown CB partnership was always going to be exposed in a game of that level.
 

Abe144

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 1, 2019
Messages
157
Supports
CD Guadalajara
Kaka before his knees went to hell was the best player in the world.

He had the speed to burn people but also the strength to hold them off. Considering how tall he is he could dribble like a short lad, with impressive control over his centre of gravity. A bit like Hazard but with less power and more poise.

Watching Kaka run a defence was a great sight. Especially when it was a Scouse defence.
Kaka was much bigger and stronger than Hazard
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
4,729
Location
Police Squad
Supports
A Alien invasion.
Golazzo: The Totally Italian Football Show with James Richardson did a good summary of Kaka's career for anyone who's interested in knowing alittle more on the 'White Smoking Jacket'.
Link below:

Kaka’s white smoking jacket
 

B20

HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
24,390
Location
Disney Land
Supports
Liverpool
I don’t think Neymar performed better for Barcelona than Kaka did for Milan.
He won the league once in six years in a star studded Milan side and the CL once. In the serie A, Zlatan and Totti were outperforming him every season.

Neymar had bettered that in hos first two seasons at Barcelona, also scored in the quarter finals, semi finals and final en route to their win.

But overall, Neymar is just more talented, a better big game player more capable of rising to the occasion and carrying the burden of being the one to get the ball and make something happen. And does more in a league season to boot.
 

B20

HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
24,390
Location
Disney Land
Supports
Liverpool
Hazard is actually a good comparison in terms of talent and stature, except Kaka shone more in the CL, whilst hazard was securing league titles. Kaka also played with vastly better attackers at Milan than hazard did at Chelsea.

Kaka was maybe a bit better overall, but that's his echelon, not the likes of Rivaldo, Neymar et al.
 

GenZRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
397
He was a great player. Shame his career went downhill when he joined Real Madrid. Not his fault, of course. If he continued his form for a few seasons beyond 2007 he might have been in the GOAT tier, Pity for him that he was in the Messi/Ronaldo era when those two were a different level to everyone else, since that and injuries is what cost him a chance at the GOAT tier.
 

thepolice123

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
10,692
You don’t think that Kaka could have played as a winger?

I have seen relatively slow #10 players like Coutinho, Ozil and Isco play on the wing deliver truly great performances.

Kaka was much faster and more athletic than any of them.
I doubt so. All of them have better close control and navigated better in tight spaces than Kaka. His dribbling and pace was more suited in central areas.

What made Kaka great was also partly down the specific position Milan had him playing in. Its no surprise he hardly thrived in any other teams. He played like a second striker with a high octane game. He's not really a #10.
 

B20

HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
24,390
Location
Disney Land
Supports
Liverpool
I doubt so. All of them have better close control and navigated better in tight spaces than Kaka. His dribbling and pace was more suited in central areas.

What made Kaka great was also partly down the specific position Milan had him playing in. Its no surprise he hardly thrived in any other teams. He played like a second striker with a high octane game. He's not really a #10.
A "second striker" with two world class forwards in front of him and three top class midfielders behind him.

Not many 10s ever had that kind of luxury.
 

RooneyLegend

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
10,419
A truly great player. He was in the group of players below Dinho after he landed in Europe along with the likes of Shevchenko, Henry, Eto'o, Nedved, Totti, Zidane, Ronaldo and then because of Dinhos demise he eventually won the big individual trophies, and the fell behind Messi and Cristiano who reached a level above him. After that he got injured and was never the same.
 

RooneyLegend

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
10,419
He won the league once in six years in a star studded Milan side and the CL once. In the serie A, Zlatan and Totti were outperforming him every season.
Lies. Well you not lying about the amounts of titles won but you're lying about him being outperformed by those two in every season. He won Serie A foreign player of the year 3 times during that period, and league player of the year 2 times. Not winning the title doesn't mean a certain player isn't performing.
 

Devil81

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
4,989
His career collapse was a weird one because it wasn't your typical party boy Brazilian decline, he just basically went very average overnight.

A bit of the Fernando Torres about his collapse.
 

RooneyLegend

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
10,419
His career collapse was a weird one because it wasn't your typical party boy Brazilian decline, he just basically went very average overnight.

A bit of the Fernando Torres about his collapse.
Nope, he was destroyed by injuries.
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,112
Just out of matter of interest where would Rooney be on these lists?
Same as Kaka or below, or above?
 

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
858
Hazard is actually a good comparison in terms of talent and stature, except Kaka shone more in the CL, whilst hazard was securing league titles. Kaka also played with vastly better attackers at Milan than hazard did at Chelsea.

Kaka was maybe a bit better overall, but that's his echelon, not the likes of Rivaldo, Neymar et al.
Neymar and Hazard are in the same echelon.
 

_00_deathscar

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
227
Supports
Liverpool
I doubt so. All of them have better close control and navigated better in tight spaces than Kaka. His dribbling and pace was more suited in central areas.

What made Kaka great was also partly down the specific position Milan had him playing in. Its no surprise he hardly thrived in any other teams. He played like a second striker with a high octane game. He's not really a #10.
Yea Milan really suited him to a tee - they had Pirlo and Gattusso next to him for a long time, with Shevchenko up front.
He was absolutely lethal and world class in those 3 seasons or so from 2004/2005 to 2006/2007 - even his last couple of seasons in Milan he was pretty good as I recall, but not at the same level as those 3 seasons, and then the Madrid move happened.

Ronaldinho had a better peak but he was probably his biggest contemporary in that period.

Hazard is a pretty good comparison I reckon - and I also reckon Kaka > Hazard.
 

Bojan11

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
29,683
We were probably the best team in Europe in 2006/2007 and he tore us to shreds at OT
That performance is massively overrated.

We had both Vidic and Ferdinand injured. Brown and Heinze probably played together for the first time. Heinze was a joke that game but we already knew that season he was finished after his injury. Looked a yard short and showed it vs Kaka.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
16,389
Supports
Real Madrid
Kaka was brilliant but his Serie A form was always patchy for me.
It really wasn't until the injuries kicked in. From 03-04(best player in the league) to 07/08 his only patchy season in serie A was 04/05, which is kinda natural given it was his second season and teams zeroed in on stopping him first and foremost. From 05/06 to 07/08 he was almost a one-man team. Stop Kaka, you stopped Milan
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
17,266
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
You don’t think that Kaka could have played as a winger?

I have seen relatively slow #10 players like Coutinho, Ozil and Isco play on the wing deliver truly great performances.

Kaka was much faster and more athletic than any of them.
Possibly - wide forward or inside-right/left. But he started out wide at Sao Paulo and moved inside to maximise the impact of his devastating burst of acceleration. He had that rare combination of the type of leggy pace you need in wide areas with the poise, passing and vision you require in the centre of the park. Rate him highly in the right set-up, but he can get a little over-rated if people place his peak on par with Ronaldinho and Rivaldo.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
10,870
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Great player but like most players, he tends to be overrated over time.

Don't get me wrong, he was a great player to watch and had a decent number of magic moments but he wasn't all that. He benefits from being very likeable as a player and had a great skillset overall but his peak was way too short and it could be argued that Ronaldo had a better season (performance wise) than him in the year he won the ballon d'or.

I feel like he is overrated for the same reason Zidane usually is. Alot of his magic moments / unplayable games were in big games that people remember but unlike Zidane, his peak doing that was way shorter. The lesser games he barely showed up or made anything remarkable for the most part.

When he was on tune, he was really enjoyable to watch though.
I'd agree with pretty much all of this.

I've always found Kaka to be somewhat overrated. Obviously a great player who had a fantastic CL in 06/07, but over the course of that entire season Ronaldo was comfortably better in both their respective leagues and at international level. Kaka wasn't even the best in the Serie A that season (that would be Totti). The fact that it came down to our CL tie as to who would win the Ballon d'Or was a bit silly considering we had a side absolutely devastated by injury (especially in defence) and were trying to win every competition while Milan had long given up in the league and were resting players for the CL, plus Ronaldo himself was playing through an ankle or heel injury at the time. The massive CL-bias worked in Ronaldo's favour when he won it in one of his latter seasons purely because of his CL performances, but it would have been nice if he'd won it twice with us like he deserved to.
 

Son

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
423
This is what I mean by overrated.

Rivaldo curbstomps Kaka in a direct comparison.

Also the "bigger trophies" argument is just silly. Kaka won the world Cup with a single appearance off the bench (and did nothing at the world cups he was a starter in). Rivaldo was one of the biggest stars of the tournament. Looks great in a comparison on Wikipedia though.
He wasn’t overrated he just burned brightly for only a few years that’s all.

I’m a big believer that if Messi quit football in 2013 he’d still be the greatest footballer ever to grace the game for instance.

Kaka dominated that years Champions League tournament the likes of which Rivaldo never got the chance to in 99’.

Rivaldo didn’t exactly dominate a World Cup either he just happened to play for Brazil. Again I like both players so I don’t get why your fishing for arguments and downplaying one for the other. It’s redundant.