How many Utd players would walk into Wolves first 11 and vice-versa...?

[Ish]

I'm all goo Ish, hope you're keeping well too mate

Aye, these hypothetical teams are always fairly subjective tbh. For instance, I think AWB has a higher ceiling than Doherty, but for the here and now and what we need, I would take Doherty over him due to his attacking output. Jimenez would be a nailed on starter for us, but again, I think Martial has the potential to be a better player with the right coach in place. Though with Martial, it does feel at times that all the stars have to align in order to get the best out of him both attitude wise and on the pitch.

All good this side Robbie.

Yeah, agreed with that. I'm a big fan of Martial but sometimes even I just wish I could give him a kick up the arse

 

[André Dominguez]

GK: Rui Patrício (sorry folks. I think Patrício is a bit better handling aerial game)
RB: Doherty
LB: Jonny
CB1: Maguire
CB2: Coady
DM: Neves
CMR: Pogba
CML: Moutinho
AM: Fernandes
SS: Rashford
STk: Jiménez

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Seriously?

Just these two because we don't really have suitable players for the positions.

• Raul Jimenez (CF)
• Adama Traore (RM/RW)

 

[Mainoldo]

We can agree with that but it's different to Fabregas being at Wolves level, he is barely a Ligue 1 player and was rightfully sidelined by Jardim.

Yeah I was over exaggerating to make a point.

 

[JPRouve]

I think there's a direct correlation between the posters that profess how rubbish our squad is and their stance on Ole. Funnily enough, if you look back over threads from the start of the season, plenty of the self professed 'Ole in brigade' were waxing lyrical about how exciting this season will be and how they're happy with the squad. Now that Ole is doing a pretty awful job, all of a sudden the squad is no better than Burnley's. Agendas eh.

Honestly I don't actually get it, Jimenez is no better than Martial statistically or in general play. Wolves scored less, conceded more and are supposed to have a better manager, to me this season shows that either Ole is a far better manager than Wolves' manager or pretty much none of their players are fit to play for United because it's important to remember that we have had multiple key injuries and are still better than them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think there's a direct correlation between the posters that profess how rubbish our squad is and their stance on Ole. Funnily enough, if you look back over threads from the start of the season, plenty of the self professed 'Ole in brigade' were waxing lyrical about how exciting this season will be and how they're happy with the squad. Now that Ole is doing a pretty awful job, all of a sudden the squad is no better than Burnley's. Agendas eh.

Absolutely. When it's time to praise the manager, our squad is really coming together and we're building something special. When it's time to deflect, we've got a relation level team. Bet all these people genuinely believed we'd finish behind Leicester and Chelsea at the start of the season. Funnily enough start of the season predictions are often a good way to debunk theories about people's conveniently ever shifting opinions on the 'hand that's been dealt' (a hand which allows you to spend 180 million pounds btw).

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Moutinho is at his level. He’s not Manchester United level. I’m sure we can agree with that!!!

Sorry, I'm confused. What does Manchester United level mean?

Given that Moutinho has probably been levels above McTominay, Fred, Pereira and Matic for the last 18 months, does that mean that they are definitely not Manchester Untied level either?

So if most of your midfield are not Manchester United level, are you being unrealistic as to what that level is?

Is 'Manchester United level' more of an aspiration than a reality of the current situation?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Honestly I don't actually get it, Jimenez is no better than Martial statistically or in general play. Wolves scored less, conceded more and are supposed to have a better manager, to me this season shows that either Ole is a far better manager than Wolves' manager or pretty much none of their players are fit to play for United because it's important to remember that we have had multiple key injuries and are still better than them.

I think given the shit on a stick football we play, Jimenez would better suit us at the moment. But overall, with a good coach and a fluid, attacking playing style, I would certainly rather Martial. I think/hope, with a much better coach than Ole who actually has a discernible playing style, Martial would finally find that bit of consistency because the talent is clearly there.

 

[roonster09]

Honestly I don't actually get it, Jimenez is no better than Martial statistically or in general play. Wolves scored less, conceded more and are supposed to have a better manager, to me this season shows that either Ole is a far better manager than Wolves' manager or pretty much none of their players are fit to play for United because it's important to remember that we have had multiple key injuries and are still better than them.

It's just the different standards to judge the player.

Just take Pogba as example, people moan about how he isn't controlling the game and then you see how Moutinho and Neves are so highly rated when Wolves don't control the game, they are purely counter attacking team, averaging less than 50% possession on average.

Some of the posts I don't get at all.
1. Wolves have better manager than us (which is sort of agreed by everyone, nothing much to argue)
2. Apparently 5 or 6 Wolves players will be in combined 11. 1 of the ManUtd player is Pogba who is out for whole season and other is De Gea who is having poor season.
3. Their defense and defensive mids are better, somehow we concede less goals than Wolves, that too with our first choice CM missing for more than a month and De Gea having poor season.
4. They have better attack but somehow we scored more goals than them. Important part of the attack is attacking CM, wingers, strikers. We have our attacking mid missing whole season and we are relying on Lingard/AP in every game. Martial missed 2 months and Rashford missed month.

Either Ole is a genius or players are judged with completely different standards.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Nuno's a negative/pragmatic manager but he'd walk onto our bench, no doubt. Better manager than ours.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sorry, I'm confused. What does Manchester United level mean?

Given that Moutinho has probably been levels above McTominay, Fred, Pereira and Matic for the last 18 months, does that mean that they are definitely not Manchester Untied level either?

So if most of your midfield are not Manchester United level, are you being unrealistic as to what that level is?

Is 'Manchester United level' more of an aspiration than a reality of the current situation?

If playing for Manchester United was as easy as putting on a Wolves shirt it would be lovely. However we are a far bigger club than Wolves and with that comes expectations. Moutinho as talented as he is has never played for a World Class club and there is a very good reason for that. Which isn’t the same reason as Riquelme for example.

The players you have mentioned may not end up being United quality but I tell you what. They’d look a lot better playing for Wolves.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Absolutely. When it's time to praise the manager, our squad is really coming together and we're building something special. When it's time to deflect, we've got a relation level team. Bet all these people genuinely believed we'd finish behind Leicester and Spurs at the start of the season. Funnily enough start of the season predictions are often a good way to debunk theories about people's conveniently ever shifting opinions on the 'hand that's been dealt' (a hand which allows you to spend 180 million pounds btw).

I dug up some gems from the Leicester thread from the beginning of the season where posters were even questioning whether they would get top six. This was after an 'Ole in' poster stated that everyone knew Leicester would finish ahead of us/have a better squad. I also dug up quotes form 'Ole in' fans from the start of the season where they declared they were "buzzing" for an exciting season and were happy with the squad. Now all of a sudden, those same posters think our squad is the absolute worst.

As I've said in other threads, the lies and misinformation from the 'Ole in brigade' is all getting out of hand. They will ignore all the stats and their retort is all personal hope and belief. That's fine and all, but the fact they spout this drivel as the gospel is really irritating. Another example of misinformation was yesterday when a poster claimed that Leicester were obviously going to do much better this season given all the turmoil they suffered last season such as Mahrez leaving mid-season. This is the same Mahrez that was sold in the summer of 2018. I mean, when will people just wake and up and admit that yeah, maybe all these stats are telling me something, that our manager isn't cut out for the job in any way, shape or form.

The fact of the matter is, under a proper manager, this thread wouldn't exist as a proper manager would be getting far more out of our players and people would be much happier with them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I dug up some gems from the Leicester thread from the beginning of the season where posters were even questioning whether they would get top six. This was after an 'Ole in' poster stated that everyone knew Leicester would finish ahead of us/have a better squad. I also dug up quotes form 'Ole in' fans from the start of the season where they declared they were "buzzing" for an exciting season and were happy with the squad. Now all of a sudden, those same posters think our squad is the absolute worst.

As I've said in other threads, the lies and misinformation from the 'Ole in brigade' is all getting out of hand. They will ignore all the stats and their retort is all personal hope and belief. That's fine and all, but the fact they spout this drivel as the gospel is really irritating. Another example of misinformation was yesterday when a poster claimed that Leicester were obviously going to do much better this season given all the turmoil they suffered last season such as Mahrez leaving mid-season. This is the same Mahrez that was sold in the summer of 2018. I mean, when will people just wake and up and admit that yeah, maybe all these stats are telling me something, that our manager isn't cut out for the job in any way, shape or form.

The fact of the matter is, under a proper manager, this thread wouldn't exist as a proper manager would be getting far more out of our players and people would be much happier with them.

Yeah. Besides, under better managers we have previously finished in the top 4 and won cups which Wolves unsurprisingly have never done.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah. Besides, under better managers we have previously finished in the top 4 and won cups which Wolves unsurprisingly have never done.

But the squad is crapper now even with Ole's 200 mil odd worth of investments and he hasn't been backed. Or something like that. Though for some reason you can't reference the money he's spent but I forget the rationale behind that rule. Think that one falls under Section 3(2a) of the 'Ole In Act'. It's a bloody confusing and contradictory document and I'll have to refesh myself with it again soon.

 

[JPRouve]

I think given the shit on a stick football we play, Jimenez would better suit us at the moment. But overall, with a good coach and a fluid, attacking playing style, I would certainly rather Martial. I think/hope, with a much better coach than Ole who actually has a discernible playing style, Martial would finally find that bit of consistency because the talent is clearly there.

He wouldn't, he would make things worse. It's just that people like the one interesting header or single run that he makes in 90 minutes of nothingness because it's what Martial/Lukaku/Rashford don't do.

 

[MsNuno]

Yeah. Besides, under better managers we have previously finished in the top 4 and won cups which Wolves unsurprisingly have never done.

Apart from league titles fa cups and league cups we've never won anything

 

[roonster09]

I dug up some gems from the Leicester thread from the beginning of the season where posters were even questioning whether they would get top six. This was after an 'Ole in' poster stated that everyone knew Leicester would finish ahead of us/have a better squad. I also dug up quotes form 'Ole in' fans from the start of the season where they declared they were "buzzing" for an exciting season and were happy with the squad. Now all of a sudden, those same posters think our squad is the absolute worst.

As I've said in other threads, the lies and misinformation from the 'Ole in brigade' is all getting out of hand. They will ignore all the stats and their retort is all personal hope and belief. That's fine and all, but the fact they spout this drivel as the gospel is really irritating. Another example of misinformation was yesterday when a poster claimed that Leicester were obviously going to do much better this season given all the turmoil they suffered last season such as Mahrez leaving mid-season. This is the same Mahrez that was sold in the summer of 2018. I mean, when will people just wake and up and admit that yeah, maybe all these stats are telling me something, that our manager isn't cut out for the job in any way, shape or form.

The fact of the matter is, under a proper manager, this thread wouldn't exist as a proper manager would be getting far more out of our players and people would be much happier with them.

Yeah, goalposts will be moved always as the season progresses. People have their agendas and refuse to see what's going on the pitch. Some 'Ole in' and 'Ole out' make good posts with some good points but usually it's just repetition of same posts again and again.

Btw I have seen Ole out poster who said "we have midtable players so expect midtable results" "our players are no better than Everton ones" when we had Jose in charge, changing the post to how good our players are and how we should be in 3rd position once Ole became manager.

Ole in, Ole out doesn't matter. People just move the goal posts all the time. Usually it's more from the people who defend the manager.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He wouldn't, he would make things worse. It's just that people like the one interesting header or single run that he makes in 90 minutes of nothingness because it's what Martial/Lukaku/Rashford don't do.

Maybe I'm becoming delusional as life under Ole has disillusioned me so much.

 

[JPRouve]

It's just the different standards to judge the player.

Just take Pogba as example, people moan about how he isn't controlling the game and then you see how Moutinho and Neves are so highly rated when Wolves don't control the game, they are purely counter attacking team, averaging less than 50% possession on average.

Some of the posts I don't get at all.
1. Wolves have better manager than us (which is sort of agreed by everyone, nothing much to argue)
2. Apparently 5 or 6 Wolves players will be in combined 11. 1 of the ManUtd player is Pogba who is out for whole season and other is De Gea who is having poor season.
3. Their defense and defensive mids are better, somehow we concede less goals than Wolves, that too with our first choice CM missing for more than a month and De Gea having poor season.
4. They have better attack but somehow we scored more goals than them. Important part of the attack is attacking CM, wingers, strikers. We have our attacking mid missing whole season and we are relying on Lingard/AP in every game. Martial missed 2 months and Rashford missed month.

Either Ole is a genius or players are judged with completely different standards.

Exactly. They can't be objectively worse than us in terms of results and at the same time have a better manager and according to some a better or equivalent team, particularly when we have played without our best players for a substantial part of the season. That's also why I don't buy the idea that the PL is at its best, it's one of worst PL seasons that I have seen, probably worse than 2015/2016.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

If playing for Manchester United was as easy as putting on a Wolves shirt it would be lovely. However we are a far bigger club than Wolves and with that comes expectations. Moutinho as talented as he is has never played for a World Class club and there is a very good reason for that. Which isn’t the same reason as Riquelme for example.

The players you have mentioned may not end up being United quality but I tell you what. They’d look a lot better playing for Wolves.

There you go again. "The players you have mentioned may not end up being United quality".

What is this mythical 'Manchester United quality' you refer to? Surely those players are Manchester United quality, in that they are the best that's available to you, therefore your level?!

Am I missing something?

 

[Fosu-Mens]

What type of football would the teams be playing?

If Manchester United players were to play like Wolves, or like Manchester United does, then the result would differ.
I.e. Doherty would start for us over AWB if we aimed to play like Wolves. And Vice Versa.

Manchester United players going into Wolves and playing like Wolves currently do:
DDG, Maguire or Lindelof, Martial/Rashford on LW and PP if fit.

Wolves players going into United and playing as we do:
Jimenez, Traore, Johnny/Doherty at LB, Saiss, Moutinho/Neves.

 

[dove]

Not many really. Jimenez, Neves and maybe Traore just because we have no one in RW. That's about it.

 

[roonster09]

Exactly. They can't be objectively worse than us in terms of results and at the same time have a better manager and according to some a better or equivalent team, particularly when we have played without our best players for a substantial part of the season. That's also why I don't buy the idea that the PL is at its best, it's one of worst PL seasons that I have seen, probably worse than 2015/2016.

It just doesn't add up. Better manager with better and completely fit squad doing as good or bad as worse manager(apparently worst in the league) with inferior team with so many injury issues.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Yeah. Besides, under better managers we have previously finished in the top 4 and won cups which Wolves unsurprisingly have never done.

The old Liverpool defence.

When the future looks bleak, just wheel out the history.

We have won league and cups by the way. The fact it was decades ago means they are just as irrelevant as those won in recent history.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah, goalposts will be moved always as the season progresses. People have their agendas and refuse to see what's going on the pitch. Some 'Ole in' and 'Ole out' make good posts with some good points but usually it's just repetition of same posts again and again.

Btw I have seen Ole out poster who said "we have midtable players so expect midtable results" "our players are no better than Everton ones" when we had Jose in charge, changing the post to how good our players are and how we should be in 3rd position once Ole became manager.

Ole in, Ole out doesn't matter. People just move the goal posts all the time. Usually it's more from the people who defend the manager.

I'll be honest here, the only goalposts I see shifting are from the 'Ole in brigade'. What I've found is that the ones that want him gone have been far more willing to change their stance based on what they see in front of them. For example, after the matches against City, Spurs and Everton, I changed my vote (for the first time) to keep. I noticed that some others did the same thing. Now, when things went to shit pretty soon after, I changed back. I never really considered myself 'Ole out' and was always hoping things would improve and I was willing to change my stance. Now though, yeah I definitely 100% want him gone. That has been my stance for some time now, but I wasn't overly vocal about it.

Now onto the 'in' crowd. No matter how bad things have gotten, I've yet to see any of the staunch 'in' crowd willing to change their stance and all they do is offer excuses time and time again. These guys seem totally and utterly incapable of altering their stance based on what's in front of them and they will play mental gymnastics until the cows come home. They seem to have a habit now of spreading lies and making stuff up to suit their agendas. Things like our squad is worse than [insert any average squad here] or the 'Ole hasn't been backed' bollox. The 'out' crowd don't need to make stuff up as the stats and what's happening on the pitch is damning enough.

What I do find amusing is how some of the Jose acolytes want him gone but don't see the irony in the things they are using to bash him are the things they used to defend Jose against. That, to me, is absolutely hilarious and the fact they can't see the irony makes it even more amusing. I don't see why people need to get emotionally invested in managers (I mean I can see why Liverpool fans have with Klopp or us with SAF) but post Fergie, nah I have never become remotely emotionally attached to any of our managers. I will judge them purely on what is happening on the pitch and with transfers etc. That is why I wanted Jose gone as much as I want Ole gone.

 

[JPRouve]

Maybe I'm becoming delusional as life under Ole has disillusioned me so much.

Delusional sounds harsh, we all succumb to the "green is greener on the other side" idea.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Delusional sounds harsh, we all succumb to the "green is greener on the other side" idea.

I mean I can roll with that, but I feel myself falling into a state of delusion under Ole's reign of terror.

 

[Andersonson]

DDG
AWB
Maguire
Lindelöf
Williams
Fred
Bruno
Pogba
Rashford
Traore
Martial

Nunez coach (The most important element)

I think the best way to do these is to look at it as. If you was playing Real Madrid in a champions league final who would you pick.

That will always make you pick your best XI. Although I would probably pick a fit Bailly to partner Maguire.

No chance Martial over Jimenez. No chance at all

 

[roonster09]

I'll be honest here, the only goalposts I see shifting are from the 'Ole in brigade'. What I've found is that the ones that want him gone have been far more willing to change their stance based on what they see in front of them. For example, after the matches against City, Spurs and Everton, I changed my vote (for the first time) to keep. I noticed that some others did the same thing. Now, when things went to shit pretty soon after, I changed back. I never really considered myself 'Ole out' and was always hoping things would improve and I was willing to change my stance. Now though, yeah I definitely 100% want him gone. That has been my stance for some time now, but I wasn't overly vocal about it.

Now onto the 'in' crowd. No matter how bad things have gotten, I've yet to see any of the staunch 'in' crowd willing to change their stance and all they do is offer excuses time and time again. These guys seem totally and utterly incapable of altering their stance based on what's in front them and they will play mental gymnastics until the cows come home. They seem to have a habit now of spreading lies and making stuff up to suit their agendas. Things like our squad is worse than [insert any average squad here] or the 'Ole hasn't been backed' bollox. The 'out' crowd don't need to make stuff up as the stats and what's happening on the pitch is damning enough.

What I do find amusing is how some of the Jose acolytes want him gone but don't see the irony in the things they are using to bash him are the things they used to defend Jose against. That, to me, is absolutely hilarious and the fact they can't see the irony makes it even more amusing. I don't see why people need to get emotionally invested in managers (I mean I can see why Liverpool fans have with Klopp or us with SAF) but post Fergie, nah I have never become remotely emotionally attached to any of our managers. I will judge them purely on what is happening on the pitch and with transfers etc. That is why I wanted Jose gone as much as I want Ole gone.

Good post, agree with everything. Bold part is spot on too, can add more to that but this is not the thread and seriously it's such a boring topic too.

I feel different people will change their opinion at different times, at least thats what I think. I wanted Ole to be given time, preseason and transfers to judge him. Didn't like what was happening on the pitch and wanted him out by September IIRC. Haven't changed my vote once. I have seen few others have changed their opinion too and want him gone. Maybe he will be sacked before everyone changes theirs.

I think few really think it's bad to change opinions on managers and players. There is a guy who even tried to use my posts on Lukaku against me, saying how I used to defend him and then started to criticize him, it's like what happens on the pitch should be ignored and we have to stick to our initial opinion no matter what.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Can't believe we've got a few on here arguing for Martial over Jiminez. Jiminez is far better and runs his balls off for his team too.

A Rashford Jiminez Traore front 3 would be tasty as hell though. My word defences would be in ruins.

 

[Bobcat]

Wolves to United:
Jimenez, Neves, Traore, Mountinho

United to Wolves
De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Pogba, Fernandes, Rashford

We're a better team when fully fit, but not by a huge margin.

This. It's hard to adjust to and even harder to accept maybe, but we are not nearly as good as we used to be. Compare this side to the one in 2008 and hardly anyone would make the squad, let alone the first XI.

 

[Canagel]

Fred?

Yeah he has been okay recently, but by far one of the best midfielders in the league? Not even close, is he even in the top 10 this campaign? Maybe? Grealish, Maddison, Ndidi, Kante, McGinn, Henderson, McTominay, Moutinho, Jorginho, Rodrigo, Ward-Prowse, Fernandinho. Where does Fred fit in here compared to these players? Hell even Capoue and Shelvey are having good seasons in midfield.

Looking over Ward-Prowse, who people would probably think is the worst midfielder from the list above, he averages more assists, more tackles, more key passes, more interceptions, than Fred.

Laughable list. Bar Henderson none can really claim to have standed out above the rest. You just plucked a group of names that shows clearly you don't watch these players play every game outside of highlights. Kanté for example has been poor by his usual standard and some Chelsea fans think that they have been worse after his return .Classic CAF overrating rivals players while underrating our own

 

[Hughes35]

DDG
Doherty - Maguire - Coady - Williams
Neves
Pogba - Bruno
Traore - Jimenez - Rashford​

Yea, this is the team IMO.

Mctom instead of Bruno or Neves for certain games.

So 6 Utd players (1 that never plays in Pogba). Versus 5 Wolves players. it is pretty close.

 

[JPRouve]

Can't believe we've got a few on here arguing for Martial over Jiminez. Jiminez is far better and runs his balls off for his team too.

A Rashford Jiminez Traore front 3 would be tasty as hell though. My word defences would be in ruins.

Defenses aren't in ruins when facing Jota, Jimenez and Traoré, they will be just fine. We have a better record with Martial and Rashford out for significant amount of times.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

I've been saying this for a while now, but there is no team we are more evenly matched with then Wolves.

I think we're similarly strengthed across the park really... And it shows in our results vs them

I haven't watched them that often, so this is more of an impression than a nuanced opinion. I think they are a well balanced team, solid players, with the quality spread around. Traore stands out as a level above the rest, but everyone else is a good to very good players in their respective positions.

We, on the other hand, are very unbalanced, a hodge podge of quality players and mediocre ones, players played out of position and others who's best position is still unknown. Right wing and striker positions especially. A decent specialist in either of these positions would be a huge improvement to the overall quality of the team. It doesn't have to be a world class player, just decent specialists.

That said, we are in the middle of a rebuild, with our two best players (3 if we count McT, who I rate) sidelined. I think overall we are much better than they are, just going through a tough spot.

 

[Mihai]

Delusional sounds harsh, we all succumb to the "green is greener on the other side" idea.

This is so true, especially when it comes to transfers.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Laughable list. Bar Henderson none can really claim to have standed out above the rest. You just plucked a group of names that shows clearly you don't watch these players play every game outside of highlights. Kanté for example has been poor by his usual standard and some Chelsea fans think that they have been worse after his return .Classic CAF overrating rivals players while underrating our own

He's been shite for ages now. The aura has well and truly worn off.

 

[TMDaines]

United have a lot of injuries; Wolves don't.

Wolves are a team with a clear strategical idea that gets the most of their talent; United don't particularly.

 

[Flanders Devil]

Walk In = Neves. Would be the missing piece in our midfield. Should buy.

Would like = Jimenez as a rotation/ alternate to Martial

Can argue for = Coady. And Doherty. But marginal improvement to our team overall.

I think Traore is a largely overrated player who’s just in hot hot form atm and is quick.
Is a fantastic bench option or come on, but not much more than that in the long term / normal form.

 

[romufc]

United have a lot of injuries; Wolves don't.

Wolves are a team with a clear strategical idea that gets the most of their talent; United don't particularly.

Exaclty, take Neves and Jiminez for large parts of the season and lets have this discussion again. None of them will get into the United team.