If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?

[sammsky1]

Amazing, the secret Mou cultist comes out to defend Mourinho while still claiming "I'm a Mou out guy too."

Am I supposed to give you a cookie for coming out with this useless fact as if you had a point? I'll try the same thing as you too.

Pochettino spent less than Mourinho last season, ended up 13 pts ahead of him in 2018/19. Direct correlation with your money spent = league position hypothesis. Of course you think he was right with those comments, never mind the fact that they came at a time where Pogba won the world cup and he just had to start controversy after a positive start to the summer. Meanwhile, Conte and Allegri had no problem with Pogba. We'll ignore that though. The point was that the cnut manager was already getting unhinged. That's a basic fact. You agreeing with Mou doesn't change that fact.

edit: And just to tie this all together since you didn't know why this conversation started. It was to say that the evidence did not support Mourinho not imploding in his 3rd season. He didn't act up based on the summer transfer activity. It started the prior season which Siorac pointed out.

Do you have anything other than personal insults to your repertoire? Abusing other people doesn't make you right.

 

[el3mel]

Amazing, the secret Mou cultist comes out to defend Mourinho while still claiming "I'm a Mou out guy too."

Am I supposed to give you a cookie for coming out with this useless fact as if you had a point? I'll try the same thing as you too.

Pochettino spent less than Mourinho last season, ended up 13 pts ahead of him in 2018/19. Of course you think he was right with those comments, never mind the fact that they came at a time where Pogba won the world cup and he just had to start controversy after a positive start to the summer. Meanwhile, Conte and Allegri had no problem with Pogba. We'll ignore that though. The point was that the cnut manager was already getting unhinged. That's a basic fact. You agreeing with Mou doesn't change that fact.

You have nothing to do in this thread except spreading "Mourinho cultist" and "Mourinho fanboy" to everyone talking to you which actually speaks more about you than anyone else you have replied to in this thread so far. Anyone who defends Mourinho on something and saying he wasn't as bad as some of you are claiming is a Mourinho cultist. Extremely childish behavior. Grow up a little bit.

I was replaying to the 2 facts you mentioned. The second fact you mentioned is him spending more than anyone else bar City in his second season, so what the point of this useless fact ? He already finished ahead of all other teams he spent more than them in this season, so your point here is just comical stuff. What even brought the third season now ? Where did I talked about it in my post where I was replaying to your 2 pointless "facts" ? You talked about the second season and his spending, and I replied to it.

Regarding Pogba comments, of course he was spot on, but since you have been a "Pogba cultist" and a "Pogba fanboy" you'll see problems with these comments. Let's ignore the fact that Mourinho prasied him alot him after the starting game of the season vs Leicester, saying he was a monster in this game, and also said he hasn't been happier with him than he was then, and gave him the armband in several games at the start, to be followed by Pogba saying " If I talked I'll be in trouble and get fined". Here're all the Mourinho quotes at the start of the season that you deliberately ignored:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/paul-pogba-handed-captains-armband-13063764

https://www.buzz.ie/football/jose-mourinho-praises-monster-paul-pogba-leicester-city-win-295323

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/17/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-paul-pogba-happy

Then came this quote from Pogba after, what .... the same Leicester game ?!

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-united-things-i-cannot-say-a3909371.html

So who re-ignited the controversy here ? Everything points to one option.

So maybe before calling other names in this thread collect your facts and search Google better first.

 

[steffyr2]

Hooray. CL football watching those god awful Mourinho borefests in year 5. Clearly what we all signed up for when we signed short term manager Mourinho. And let's not rewrite history. He favored Fellaini, Young, Matic, etc... so he also wouldn't be some great deadwood assassin.

That is also your opinion, and i don't agree with it. As has been been said, we were going forward and now we're not. Financially, being in a 'boring' cl game is better than being in 12th. For bringing in players, it's better to be in the cl than to be 12th. I presume most fans would rather be in a cl spot than to be in 12th, but that's my opinion. Let's have a poll! Would we rather be in 2nd or 12th?

 

[In Rainbows]

That is also your opinion, and i don't agree with it. As has been been said, we were going forward and now we're not. Financially, being in a 'boring' cl game is better than being in 12th. For bringing in players, it's better to be in the cl than to be 12th. I presume most fans would rather be in a cl spot than to be in 12th, but that's my opinion. Let's have a poll! Would we rather be in 2nd or 12th?

That is not an opinion. Was he not feuding with Pogba in the latter part of that season? Were you surprised by his World Cup comments, his comments towards the youngsters, and eventually falling out with the players? I wasn't because he started in 2018. That's not an opinion. It's fact. It's a fact that it did not start due to Woodward not backing him enough over the summer. It started before that.

2nd or 12th? Why is that the question? Presumably everyone who wanted Mourinho gone, want a competent attacking manager (not Ole) to give us exciting football again. If that is transferred to the players, I'll be willing to accept 5th, 6th, etc... just like Liverpool fans accepted Klopp because they can see his coaching and what he's building towards. Too bad Mourinho didn't get this part down despite the 2nd place finish.

 

[TrustInOle]

That doesn't mean we wouldn't have problems if Mourinho was still here. Again, because it seems the José cult seems to miss this basic point: it's possible that at the same time Woodward is incompetent AND Mourinho did a shite job here.

And as i said, its not about Mourinho and what he did wrong, think everyone agrees it could have been handled better. But he definatley isnt the only one to blame. Its about Woodward making mistake after mistake when it comes to the footballing side of the club.
I am by no means a 'Jose cultist' and can honestly say, I didnt want him here from the minute the rumours started, but I can also appriciate that he has had the best season our club has had since Fergie left, and that deserves praise where it is due.

The point i was trying to make with what you quoted of me was, regardless who is in charge of the team, we will not progress as a footballing great whilst Woodward is making the final decison.

 

[gza the genius]

Yes. We'd probably be in the cl this year and next year.
He'd probably keep slthe players who were good enough to play for utd and get rid of those who weren't. Gasp!

We'd end up with an aging squad of mostly boring hard working players who would all need replaced in another year or so and still would have no trophies. He would have, at best, just slightly prolonged what we are going through now - ie getting rid of aging average players on huge wages.

Plus we'd be without Martial, probably Rashford, probably Shaw and whoever else. Greenwood wouldn't be getting a sniff, etc.

Ole is not doing a good job at all, but keeping Mourinho wasn't the answer either.

 

[In Rainbows]

You have nothing to do in this thread except spreading "Mourinho cultist" and "Mourinho fanboy" to everyone talking to you which actually speaks more about you than anyone else you have replied to in this thread so far. Anyone who defends Mourinho on something and saying he wasn't as bad as some of you are claiming is a Mourinho cultist. Extremely childish behavior. Grow up a little bit.

I was replaying to the 2 facts you mentioned. The second fact you mentioned is him spending more than anyone else bar City in his second season, so what the point of this useless fact ? He already finished ahead of all other teams he spent more than them in this season, so your point here is just comical stuff. What even brought the third season now ? Where did I talked about it in my post where I was replaying to your 2 pointless "facts" ? You talked about the second season and his spending, and I replied to it.

Regarding Pogba comments, of course he was spot on, but since you have been a "Pogba cultist" and a "Pogba fanboy" you'll see problems with these comments. Let's ignore the fact that Mourinho prasied him alot him after the starting game of the season vs Leicester, saying he was a monster in this game, and also said he hasn't been happier with him than he was then, and gave him the armband in several games at the start, to be followed by Pogba saying " If I talked I'll be in trouble and get fined". Here're all the Mourinho quotes at the start of the season that you deliberately ignored:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/paul-pogba-handed-captains-armband-13063764

https://www.buzz.ie/football/jose-mourinho-praises-monster-paul-pogba-leicester-city-win-295323

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/17/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-paul-pogba-happy

Then came this quote from Pogba after, what .... the same Leicester game ?!

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-united-things-i-cannot-say-a3909371.html

So who re-ignited the controversy here ? Everything points to one option.

So maybe before calling other names in this thread collect your facts and search Google better first.

Where do I start with this.

1. What was the point of mentioning the fact that he spent the 2nd most amount of money? Go back and read what Siorac was saying. Based on the money spent, Mourinho wasn't getting enough out of his players and his buys weren't successful. That's important for a rebuild project. Klopp spent the same following the 2018/19 summer and it resulted in a title challenge where as Mourinho had us out of the title race in week 3.
2. The 3rd season was brought up because Sammsky argued that Mourinho would win the title in his 3rd season. Jesus, follow the conversation first. These are things I shouldn't have to point out. None of the evidence points to Mourinho accomplishing that fact.
3. All those links are poor evidence. Pogba getting the armband after Mourinho called him out for his world cup high, was uncalled for and was just more evidence of him failing to take responsibility for anything bad. If you really wanted to start fresh, maybe don't call out Pogba after the entire fanbase was feeling a little positive towards this new start where he was class in the summer. So all of your links start with the start of last season.

I mean come on. Just Google better.
This started with him subbing and benching Pogba, while playing favorites elsewhere. Where Lukaku went 10 matches without scoring (scored an OG), and persisted with him. Same with him persisting with Sanchez despite Martial performing until that point. That's where all of this started. Sure Pogba fanned the flames in Mou's 3rd season, but Mourinho was starting before that 3rd season, hence the World Cup comments.

 

[matt10000]

Agreed with that, but then don’t use Mourinho sabotaging the season like some sort of beacon of principles and morality and “in the best interest of the club for standing up to EW” etc. He was a cnut for doing that. And rightly as you said, it’s the option a lot of people would choose. But it wasn’t done in anyway in the clubs interest.

Not meaning or having a go at you btw. I’ve just seen it mentioned on here a couple of times.

I agree mourinho acted like a cnut but the contract should not have encouraged this especially after chelsea! I think I might consider being a cnut for £24 million but ill probably never end up in that situation unfortunatley

 

[matt10000]

Yes I can say that, when the discussion is framed around whether or not Mourinho's vision or plan was worth further investing in it. Don't lose sight of what we're ultimately discussing.

I'm not all that results oriented right now. It's the same reason why I liked Klopp's work despite finishing 6 pts behind United that season. Anybody paying attention beyond the table could see that Klopp was more likely to succeed than Mourinho. Klopp actually had Liverpool resembling his best Dortmund sides. United could not even muster effective counter attacks under Mourinho, which was a Mourinho staple for his successful sides. If you just look at the table, you'll end up falling for a charlatan. Were you really that surprised by what happened to United last season compared to Liverpool? Maybe if you looked at the table you would be, but beyond that, all the signs were there that United would struggle. I'm not really a big Poch fan (doesn't move the needle enough for me), but he was a stark contrast to Mourinhos crap 2018/19 season. Spent nothing, and were 13 pts above United at the time of his sacking. Fair enough, you can't compete with City's money, but if you can't even compete with someone who spent nothing, you were rightly sacked and it's completely obvious that he imploded givin his history of being a short term manager, with a poisonous personality, and crap football on display.

That's the point of my assertion that his 2nd place finish wasn't some achievement. That's not the end goal for United. The goal is to ultimately build a successful side that can challenge for titles. If the table contradicts all the peripherals, maybe you should think critically and wonder why that is. To build a successful side, it's clear that results aren't the end all be all.

Fair points and well made

 

[siw2007]

It was never all Jose’s fault. I get the boards point of view but they handled the whole saga really badly and had to buy the players needed to improve the team. However, after what was materialising at the back end of the previous season I see why what happened happened.

He had made a great start in his first season winning the cups that he did and getting us back into the champions league. He then made a superb start to the 2nd season which is effectively what got him 2nd place. Be it the signing of Sanchez or him falling out with players, the team started to deteriorate in the 2nd half of the season. Other than wins against City, Spurs and Liverpool we put in many dross displays as José became more and more difficult.

The club should have done better business last year, no doubt. But with City and Liverpool vastly improving through the year, while we were eroding and Jose becoming more and more toxic, I can see why they weren’t totally committed to Mourinho’s plans. The third year was just a continuation of the poor form from the previous year.

 

[Ish]

I agree mourinho acted like a cnut but the contract should not have encouraged this especially after chelsea! I think I might consider being a cnut for £24 million but ill probably never end up in that situation unfortunatley

The only sad part is that Woody (& probably even Judge) weren't fecked off with him.

 

[Siorac]

There is unanimous agreement on this board that Woodward is the sole common denominator for all our issues. I've not seen anyone argue otherwise.

So when Woodward also happens to be your boss, lies to you and then imposes his footballing decisions upon you, I'd say that not 'speculation'.

But it is speculation, as it does not account for the transfers of Van Gaal and Mourinho being markedly different. I can't see Van Gaal signing Matic or Lukaku, just as we wouldn't have signed Blind or Depay under Mourinho. And of course let's not forget the Moyes summer - I highly doubt chasing Fellaini and Baines was Woodward's idea.

Again, your arguments are far too simplistic. "Woodward bad" is not really enough. It's probably true but still not sufficient to explain everything wrong with Manchester United.

 

[Siorac]

And as i said, its not about Mourinho and what he did wrong, think everyone agrees it could have been handled better. But he definatley isnt the only one to blame. Its about Woodward making mistake after mistake when it comes to the footballing side of the club.
I am by no means a 'Jose cultist' and can honestly say, I didnt want him here from the minute the rumours started, but I can also appriciate that he has had the best season our club has had since Fergie left, and that deserves praise where it is due.

The point i was trying to make with what you quoted of me was, regardless who is in charge of the team, we will not progress as a footballing great whilst Woodward is making the final decison.

No, he most certainly isn't. But try explaining to sammsky that Woodward isn't the only one to blame either or that Mourinho was less than perfect.

 

[el3mel]

Where do I start with this.

1. What was the point of mentioning the fact that he spent the 2nd most amount of money? Go back and read what Siorac was saying. Based on the money spent, Mourinho wasn't getting enough out of his players and his buys weren't successful. That's important for a rebuild project. Klopp spent the same following the 2018/19 summer and it resulted in a title challenge where as Mourinho had us out of the title race in week 3.
2. The 3rd season was brought up because Sammsky argued that Mourinho would win the title in his 3rd season. Jesus, follow the conversation first. These are things I shouldn't have to point out. None of the evidence points to Mourinho accomplishing that fact.
3. All those links are poor evidence. Pogba getting the armband after Mourinho called him out for his world cup high, was uncalled for and was just more evidence of him failing to take responsibility for anything bad. If you really wanted to start fresh, maybe don't call out Pogba after the entire fanbase was feeling a little positive towards this new start where he was class in the summer. So all of your links start with the start of last season.

I mean come on. Just Google better.
This started with him subbing and benching Pogba, while playing favorites elsewhere. Where Lukaku went 10 matches without scoring (scored an OG), and persisted with him. Same with him persisting with Sanchez despite Martial performing until that point. That's where all of this started. Sure Pogba fanned the flames in Mou's 3rd season, but Mourinho was starting before that 3rd season, hence the World Cup comments.

1- He did got the most of this squad in his second season though. He finished second to the best team in the country who got 100 points. We had the second best record against big teams after City. Better than that is playing better football and closing the gap with City but that's subjective. we gave up after Arsenal game when second was nearly guaranteed otherwise could have got 6 or so more points and he has never been a manager known for playing great attacking football anyway. You can talk all you want about De Gea and stuff but results and league position don't lie. Better than this was getting points closer to City and playing better football. That's about it.

2- I had nothing to do with this winning the title point. I replied on the 2 "facts" you mentioned.

3- This point is just really a nothing replay on the quotes I posted which proved your Pogba point being totally wrong and you seem to don't have a replay on it so you reverted back to the World Cup comments. These comments were tactical analysis of his inconsistency problem that Pogba should have listened to for his own sake. You're making it as if he insulted him, then after Mourinho very positive quotes about him pre and post Leicester game and giving him the armband, Pogba had a big chance to close the argument in front of the media once and for all and let everyone focus on the upcoming season, but then he went on and told the media he can't talk or he'll be fined. Hell, could have just said there's no problem with the coach and everyone should be working together for the sake of the club. Easy eh?

No one said they didn't argue together the season before it, but at the start of the 3rd season Mourinho actually tried to tie things up and close this subject by praising him pre and post opening game, saying he's happier with him now and he wants him to play for the fans, giving him the arm band etc. Pogba had the chance to follow on and close the subject but he decided to persist, the problem got bigger by the season went on and exploded. The quotes are obvious to you. Just make a little effort and read.

Currently Pogba is still repeating the same mistakes and doing the same as he was back then. Nothing has changed in him. Everything Mourinho in these "World Cup comments" you keep repeating are still happening. Still inconsistent, moody player who doesn't approach every game with full 100%, and still always leaving the subject of his future with the club open in front of the media just like he and his agent did in summer as if he wants to the media to continuously talk him about and where he'll go next. He still wants to leave.

I have never said once that Mourinho shouldn't have been sacked. By the end of his time here there was no comeback point for him or us and he had to go, but he his full 2 seasons were far better than what some of you're treating them to be, and in comparison to the shite show before and after them. No one know for sure what would have happened if we had a proper summer business and approached the 3rd season like any other. After his second season the team proved it can finish high in the table but still unable to challenge a team like City for the title. The objective was to reinforce the team more to get closer to City. The summer ended up being a disaster, everything ended up being toxic and he was deservedly sacked but people are right in saying that there's a chance if everything went as smooth as the previous 2 summer markets things might have went far better than where we're now.

 

[Dec9003]

It's possible but unlikely, given his managerial career. Look at Chelsea 06/07. Won the title the previous two seasons and signed Cole, Ballack and Shevchenko. He still lost out to United in the league and to Liverpool in the Champions League.

Again, he was already complaining in 17/18 despite spending huge amounts of money and raising the wage bill considerably. And our football and form in the second part of that season was mostly atrocious.

Of course its unlikely, but that isn't my point. You can't say that people aren't willing to be open to the idea that both Woodward and Jose were a problem, and then say that people who think Jose could have continued to be successful are part of a cult.
This isn't just aimed at you, but I do think there is a bit of an issue on the forum at the minute with people being one side of an argument or the other and never, ever backing down, its boring, its like American politics at this point.
The Solsjkaer threads are similar, its a complete shitshow at this point.

 

[sammsky1]

But it is speculation, as it does not account for the transfers of Van Gaal and Mourinho being markedly different. I can't see Van Gaal signing Matic or Lukaku, just as we wouldn't have signed Blind or Depay under Mourinho. And of course let's not forget the Moyes summer - I highly doubt chasing Fellaini and Baines was Woodward's idea.

Again, your arguments are far too simplistic. "Woodward bad" is not really enough. It's probably true but still not sufficient to explain everything wrong with Manchester United.

No, he most certainly isn't. But try explaining to sammsky that Woodward isn't the only one to blame either or that Mourinho was less than perfect.

can you read? I've already stated:

"There is unanimous agreement on this board that Woodward is the sole common denominator for all our issues. I've not seen anyone argue otherwise."

You're welcome to be the first.

 

[Siorac]

Of course its unlikely, but that isn't my point. You can't say that people aren't willing to be open to the idea that both Woodward and Jose were a problem, and then say that people who think Jose could have continued to be successful are part of a cult.
This isn't just aimed at you, but I do think there is a bit of an issue on the forum at the minute with people being one side of an argument or the other and never, ever backing down, its boring, its like American politics at this point.
The Solsjkaer threads are similar, its a complete shitshow at this point.

The cult are people who 1) are convinced that the only things that stopped Mourinho from being a resounding success are "not being backed" - augh that phrase again - and 2) Woodward. That he bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened in 2018/19. See sammsky's work over the last few pages for a brilliant example of the breed.

 

[sammsky1]

The cult are people who 1) are convinced that the only things that stopped Mourinho from being a resounding success are "not being backed" - augh that phrase again - and 2) Woodward. That he bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened in 2018/19. See sammsky's work over the last few pages for a brilliant example of the breed.

again, you simply resort to name calling and abuse. Thats literally all you have

 

[Siorac]

can you read? I've already stated:

"There is unanimous agreement on this board that Woodward is the sole common denominator for all our issues. I've not seen anyone argue otherwise."

You're welcome to be the first.

What? Yes, I can read. It's just... and this might be shocking to you... your words aren't gospel to me. I know, I know, what a heretic, but I do not think something is automatically true just because you say so.

Honestly, it feels like talking to a brick wall. I'm arguing with you. I mean, it's a blatantly false statement. Plenty of people blame the Glazer ownership, too, for one. Which is also a common denominator.

And again, because apparently it's YOU who can't read: "Woodward bad" is not ENOUGH, not a sufficient analysis of why we're shite right now. Just repeating it again and again does not make it so. He's not the only thing wrong with the club.

 

[Dec9003]

The cult are people who 1) are convinced that the only things that stopped Mourinho from being a resounding success are "not being backed" - augh that phrase again - and 2) Woodward. That he bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened in 2018/19. See sammsky's work over the last few pages for a brilliant example of the breed.

The cult are people who disagree with you, its been like that with the Jose in/Jose out crowd for over a year now.
I mean come on, a cult? The breed? Feck me, we're talking about football. If it makes you feel better to basically shit on the other side or the "cult" then crack on, but outside looking in it looks pathetic.

 

[Siorac]

again, you simply resort to name calling and abuse. Thats literally all you have

Why, are you not claiming that only Woodward is to blame for everything, and Mourinho is blameless? I don't think that part is untrue.

Also, you literally ignored everything from the post where I laid out "facts" like you asked so it's a bit rich of you to claim that namecalling is all I have. You just repeated that Woodward is to blame for everything, and that's it. Because unfortunately, you have no other argument, as Mourinho otherwise is indefensible.

 

[Siorac]

The cult are people who disagree with you, its been like that with the Jose in/Jose out crowd for over a year now.
I mean come on, a cult? The breed? Feck me, we're talking about football. If it makes you feel better to basically shit on the other side or the "cult" then crack on, but outside looking in it looks pathetic.

Look, those still hankering for a man who literally shat on the club and its past, gloating about his own triumphs over Manchester United in public after a painful defeat... I find that weird and cult-like, yes. I do not understand why he inspires such devotion. Yes, yes, he finished second once, but we're talking about Manchester United. It really shouldn't be enough to turn him into a hero yet he is that for some people. We saw over the last pages the claim that he's actually to be commended and respected for deliberately destroying our 2018/19 season. How is that not weird and cult-like?

Again, it's not fair to claim that I label those who think "he might have been successful" cult members. But those who claim he did everything right and was thwarted by Woodward and the Glazers at every turn? That he was right to burn down everything in 18/19? That it's actually respectable because of his winning mentality? Those people are so detached from reality that it's hard to comprehend.

 

[Dec9003]

Look, those still hankering for a man who literally shat on the club and its past, gloating about his own triumphs over Manchester United in public after a painful defeat... I find that weird and cult-like, yes. I do not understand why he inspires such devotion. Yes, yes, he finished second once, but we're talking about Manchester United. It really shouldn't be enough to turn him into a hero yet he is that for some people. We saw over the last pages the claim that he's actually to be commended and respected for deliberately destroying our 2018/19 season. How is that not weird and cult-like?

Again, it's not fair to claim that I label those who think "he might have been successful" cult members. But those who claim he did everything right and was thwarted by Woodward and the Glazers at every turn? That he was right to burn down everything in 18/19? That it's actually respectable because of his winning mentality? Those people are so detached from reality that it's hard to comprehend.

You're missing the point, at this point I'm just taking the thread off topic, so as I said, crack on.

 

[Siorac]

You're missing the point, at this point I'm just taking the thread off topic, so as I said, crack on.

I'd like to know what is your point then. You objected to the word "cult" - I explained why. You said it's a problem that people never back down - I'm not sure why that is an issue, it's a football forum debate, not like life and death so why not argue until we're bored? Is your point simply that we should be nicer to each other?

 

[sammsky1]

Why, are you not claiming that only Woodward is to blame for everything, and Mourinho is blameless? I don't think that part is untrue.

Also, you literally ignored everything from the post where I laid out "facts" like you asked so it's a bit rich of you to claim that namecalling is all I have. You just repeated that Woodward is to blame for everything, and that's it. Because unfortunately, you have no other argument, as Mourinho otherwise is indefensible.

No. You just can’t accept another opinion. When other opinions are offered, you act out like a 7 year old. Your views are bigoted in this regard. And you have no facts to back up your assertions.

I thinks that that’s and we’re done?

 

[sammsky1]

What? Yes, I can read. It's just... and this might be shocking to you... your words aren't gospel to me. I know, I know, what a heretic, but I do not think something is automatically true just because you say so.

Honestly, it feels like talking to a brick wall. I'm arguing with you. I mean, it's a blatantly false statement. Plenty of people blame the Glazer ownership, too, for one. Which is also a common denominator.

And again, because apparently it's YOU who can't read: "Woodward bad" is not ENOUGH, not a sufficient analysis of why we're shite right now. Just repeating it again and again does not make it so. He's not the only thing wrong with the club.

No. My point is I’ve answered your point several times to my satisfaction. I’m very happy and content with my opinion.

You’re welcome to disagree but please stop recycling like a clockwork parrot or childish personal insults.

 

[hn4manunited]

So you're okay with someone deliberately sabotaging Manchester United's season?

And then have the gall to tell me you are not a Mourinho fanboy but you support Manchester United and want what is best for the club? I am speechless.

You are a fanboy. Just admit it. It will be easier.

If the deliberateness was to expose the bigger issues at our beloved club, yes. I commend him. If you are calling us fanboys for supporting this, where do you stand? You obviously don’t care about the well being of our club as long as you can sh*t on Jose who you just hate.

 

[hn4manunited]

Bang on the head! Couldnt have said it better myself. I think its less to do with the Mourinho episode, and more to do with every other episode (except commercial) which Woodward has massively let the club down due to his decision making.

Plus, Mourinho aint here and we are having even more problems. Truth is in the pudding.

The fact of the matter is we who are trying to argue the bigger picture beyond just dissing on Jose are willing to y’all about the bigger picture and leave Jose be but the Jose haters will not leave the Jose hating to move on to the real issues at the club.

 

[Siorac]

If the deliberateness was to expose the bigger issues at our beloved club, yes. I commend him. If you are calling us fanboys for supporting this, where do you stand? You obviously don’t care about the well being of our club as long as you can sh*t on Jose who you just hate.

But it wasn't. It was to protect his own personal reputation. Much like when he was listing his triumphs over Manchester United.

 

[Siorac]

The fact of the matter is we who are trying to argue the bigger picture beyond just dissing on Jose are willing to y’all about the bigger picture and leave Jose be but the Jose haters will not leave the Jose hating to move on to the real issues at the club.

This is a thread about José Mourinho, that's why we're discussing him in this thread. I "leave him be" in other threads.

 

[Siorac]

No. My point is I’ve answered your point several times to my satisfaction. I’m very happy and content with my opinion.

You’re welcome to disagree but please stop recycling like a clockwork parrot or childish personal insults.

That's good, just stop parroting "you have no facts" when you keep ignoring facts and we'll be peachy.

 

[hn4manunited]

Look, those still hankering for a man who literally shat on the club and its past, gloating about his own triumphs over Manchester United in public after a painful defeat... I find that weird and cult-like, yes. I do not understand why he inspires such devotion. Yes, yes, he finished second once, but we're talking about Manchester United. It really shouldn't be enough to turn him into a hero yet he is that for some people. We saw over the last pages the claim that he's actually to be commended and respected for deliberately destroying our 2018/19 season. How is that not weird and cult-like?

Again, it's not fair to claim that I label those who think "he might have been successful" cult members. But those who claim he did everything right and was thwarted by Woodward and the Glazers at every turn? That he was right to burn down everything in 18/19? That it's actually respectable because of his winning mentality? Those people are so detached from reality that it's hard to comprehend.

his English may not be perfect. The way I see it, he’s trying to make a case that he does know what he is doing and does know what is going on. And that something is rotten in the club from top down.

 

[hn4manunited]

But it wasn't. It was to protect his own personal reputation. Much like when he was listing his triumphs over Manchester United.

Commented in a post from me in the above.

 

[hn4manunited]

This is a thread about José Mourinho, that's why we're discussing him in this thread. I "leave him be" in other threads.

that’s a fair point! I’ve forgotten this thread is about Jose

 

[Sterling Archer]

If he was so principled, why didn’t he just resign and walk away, the moment he felt he wasn’t backed (as most of you guys claim)? Instead he derailed the season, sabotaged the club by “apparently” not performing the job he was contracted and paid to do, to the best of his abilities.

I'll give you one chance to rephrase and explain that before I dismiss it. Surely you mean something else, because right now it's Trump-level stupid propaganda talk.

 

[MackRobinson]

I dealt with you several pages before. Just read those if you need reminding.

My last response to you:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/if-...e-be-challenging.447238/page-28#post-24799717
I literally responded to all your points with quotes from Mourinho himself.

What was your response?

You type an awful lot without saying anything new or meaningful. You might want to get that checked out

You're having a mare in this thread. You follow the same pattern thinking nobody will notice: 1) You ask someone for facts 2) You are given facts 3) You pretend you don't see them 4) Allow some time to pass 5) Repeat the same schtik with another poster.

 

[Ish]

I'll give you one chance to rephrase and explain that before I dismiss it. Surely you mean something else, because right now it's Trump-level stupid propaganda talk.

He essentially threw in the towel before the season even started, performing to get himself fired and paid off. Unless mid to lower mid table is an indication of his managerial ability?

 

[AllezLesDiables]

The funny thing is that there were the same Mourinho fans at Chelsea who blamed the board for everything even to go as far to call three of his players rats.

Nothing is black and white here.

Hiring Jose was a terrible decision especially taking into account what transpired his last season at Chelsea.

He did the same shit where he took no responsibility for Chelsea’s failures and blamed everyone else the board, the players, the fans, the referees, etc.

Is Woodward a massive issue? Absolutely, but as I mentioned hiring Jose was a massive failing because there was no legacy plan in place for when things fell apart and it came on the back of two prior poor choices for the manager position.

Jose was never the solution. He is excellent at squeezing blood from the stone to get the most from a club on a short term basis, but he is incapable of building a long term vision.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Amazing, the secret Mou cultist comes out to defend Mourinho while still claiming "I'm a Mou out guy too."

Am I supposed to give you a cookie for coming out with this useless fact as if you had a point? I'll try the same thing as you too.

Pochettino spent less than Mourinho last season, ended up 13 pts ahead of him in 2018/19. Direct correlation with your money spent = league position hypothesis. Of course you think he was right with those comments, never mind the fact that they came at a time where Pogba won the world cup and he just had to start controversy after a positive start to the summer. Meanwhile, Conte and Allegri had no problem with Pogba. We'll ignore that though. The point was that the cnut manager was already getting unhinged. That's a basic fact. You agreeing with Mou doesn't change that fact.

edit: And just to tie this all together since you didn't know why this conversation started. It was to say that the evidence did not support Mourinho not imploding in his 3rd season. He didn't act up based on the summer transfer activity. It started the prior season which Siorac pointed out.

Mourinho won 2 trophies in first season and finished second in second season. In those two seasons we were close to old days United in terms of success. We were favourites against nearly every club and on match day we were all sure that we will win against Wolves, Liverpool or Cardiff.

Today we talk how 6th place is good, how Newcastle away will be tricky match and how it is huge success to draw against Wolves. But feel free to hate him because he was the guy who spoke the truth in public instead throwing empty nice words.

For me it is amazing how this guy is hated here

 

[sammsky1]

That's good, just stop parroting "you have no facts" when you keep ignoring facts and we'll be peachy.

Preachy? What does that even mean And this from the person who talks of breeds and cults. You can’t make it up.
Dear oh dear.