Last year's performances really shouldn't be used as a basis for anything, other than Moyes' incompetence. If we're judging our players based on last season, we'd only be left with DDG, a 19 year old, and a money-grubbing cnut.
If only... Vidic had stayed
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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Our backline definitely needs an experienced head. And judging by a few grapevine rumours, he is regretting jumping ship early.
thank you for reposting exactly what I said.
Vidic might have had an Indian summer.
Only one game a week. If we could have got him to play 25-30 games he might have had a good season. Still he has become very injury prone. So its a big if.
Only one game a week. If we could have got him to play 25-30 games he might have had a good season. Still he has become very injury prone. So its a big if.
I was only expanding your point
I'd add Rafael and Blind to that list.
I have faith that one of Jonse/Smalling/Evans/Blackett can step-up to a level that does fill the hole that Vidic left - Maybe not the Vidic of 4/5 years ago, but certainly the Vidic of now.
Vidic would have been absolutely superb in a back 3. I think thats one of the reasons he's moved to Italy (albeit having had a bad first game). With two mobile defenders like Rojo and Evans covering him, he would have been majestic. None of our center backs today have the qualities which he brought to the table (Injury prone Jones to an extend) and we'd have had one more leader in the dressing room.
I really think he might be regretting his decision a wee bit. The cat's out of the bag with Rio's autobiography anyways.
I really think he might be regretting his decision a wee bit. The cat's out of the bag with Rio's autobiography anyways.
Agreed. Sure he's older and slower, but so are Terry and Demichelis and it's not that big an issue because of what they have for help.
I agree with the sentiment about Jones and Smalling getting their chance, but they just aren't very reliable because of the injuries. Having Vidic here would be a huge benefit for us.
I agree with the sentiment about Jones and Smalling getting their chance, but they just aren't very reliable because of the injuries. Having Vidic here would be a huge benefit for us.
He isn't finished, he is better than any of our centre backs. Even if you don't hold this opinion, there was no harm in him being here. He could easily have been our Terry
He pretty much confirmed this in an interview if you're interested
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-in-my-final-season-at-Manchester-United.html
Yeah, vidic would have stayed. I wonder if we would have signed rojo though. And rojo might be someone who suits LVG's preference of ball plying centre backs more.
Obviously you add vidic to this lot and it would be incredible.
I'm glad he's left. We need to give one season to Jones/Evans/Smalling to establish themselves in the center back position. If they don't do it then bin them but they need to be given the opportunity.
I hindsight, I'm pleased the likes of Rio, Vidic and Evra left.
The squad needed a proper shakeup and a rebuild.
The squad needed a proper shakeup and a rebuild.
I'd say if only we bought another top class CB we'd have a perfect team IMHO. Vidic was done
Don't think Vidic would have partnered Rojo well. To me, Rojo or Jones need players similar to Rio next to them, who will sniff out the danger a mile off and is composed on the ball. We currently have Evans and Smalling who will do this role, although Van Gaal might want to purchase another centre of this sought next season.
I do think we should give Smalling a chance, though. Providing he doesn't keep getting injuries, I have high hopes for him.
I do think we should give Smalling a chance, though. Providing he doesn't keep getting injuries, I have high hopes for him.
Cheeky bid in January?
Had a conversation about this today. Actually extended the conversation to how surprised I am he went to Inter Milan considering Barcelona wanted a centre back and payed money for Vermaalen when Vidic was there and available on a free. Even Bayern should've considerd him too.
It was definitely the right time for him to go.
The last couple of seasons were much more injury ravaged, and the mobility had gone lower than ever before.
It's time to give Evans, Jones and Smalling a proper run, or finally get someone top end in.
The last couple of seasons were much more injury ravaged, and the mobility had gone lower than ever before.
It's time to give Evans, Jones and Smalling a proper run, or finally get someone top end in.
It was time to move on, it's just the way we managed it was awful. We would've been much better off if we let them go one by one in the previous seasons. Our defence wouldn't be full of newbies now, plus we'd know if the newbies were actually good enough and if they were we'd have some partnerships/chemistry built up along the back line.
I think our time will come next season, this season is about regaining our identity and quality. Just make a top 4 even a top 3 this season, and then next season go for the title. Next season I expect cleverley nani zaha hernandez loans to be made permanently, I expect the club to move on anderson fellaini young that will be huge wages off the books when all 7 will be leaving, which gives us the keys to sign more players especially if we make the CL to just add more quality and depth to the squad. Times are changing at this club, and for the better. The transfer policy is more aggressive, the quality is changing, the quantity is leaving, and I feel when 2015/16 season kicks in, we will have a squad fully equipped to take on the best. Next season I expect LVG's squad to be his, this season is about rebuilding ground zero
For me no question the last 4 signings of di maria rojo blind and falcao has been the game changer we needed
Yeah I think vida for one more season would have really helped with his leadership and experience. He wasn't great last year, but moyes had no clue on how to organize anyone. Van gaal would have found a way to put him in the defence and stabilize us, like Mourinho did with Terry. This probably would have been his last season though as first choice, but that maybe would have been enough to bed rojo in and develop the others more.
van Gaal has maintained we'll challenge for the title next season, and the Champions League the following season. I trust him.
He's the breakthrough youth player for this season. He's looking more confident and composed on the ball than Smalling and Jones. With Jones, Evans and Smalling being sicknotes I see him getting more game time and much needed experience. Only 20, massive potential.
I agree, it is next season I expect us to challenge and possibly be favourites. Our aggressive transfer policy is what will give us the keys to keep up with chelsea and city, I think we will surpass arsenal and liverpool, who are still stuck in this regression. I think the frontline will need a freshness, has I do not see the club signing falcao permanently. It would not surprise me if we sign ronaldo instead
Gets beaten too easily? What games are you watching? Lets be honest here, he's looked better than all our CBs this season except maybe Jones. It doesn't matter either why he's playing, the only thing that matters is that he is playing and taking his chance while Smalling and Jones continue to be the sicknotes that they are. LVG clearly rates Blackett and even said this in preseason. Keane was loaned out and Thorpe hasn't been given the opportunity yet. Clearly Blackett is a full member of the first team now.
On topic: Vidic could've stayed on for one more year, but its time for Smalling, Evans and Jones to show if they're truly United quality. No more excuses.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-central-defenders-in-2013-14-a-statistical-analysis.395152/
Vidic wasn't that much (if any) better than our current crop, and it could be argued that he often held them back during his final season. His time to move on had come, he's at the age now where his ability will diminish each season while Smalling/Evans/Jones/Rojo should improve if they are given playing time.
Vidic wasn't that much (if any) better than our current crop, and it could be argued that he often held them back during his final season. His time to move on had come, he's at the age now where his ability will diminish each season while Smalling/Evans/Jones/Rojo should improve if they are given playing time.
Nah, I think Vidic left at the right time. Aside from the fact that everyone played badly last year, it was clear that his mobility was nothing like it was a few seasons ago and he was heading down the same road as Rio. I preferred that he left instead of setting himself up for embarrassment.
It's true we don't have any leaders in the back now but our situation might not be all that bad. We have Rojo now and Jones, Evans, Smalling, Rafael etc. are very reliable, it's just that they can't stay fit all at the same time. Blackett has also been a pleasant surprise, at least to me. Shaw is also coming back soon.
We just need a reliable veteran CB in the winter or summer and we could be in very good shape.
It's true we don't have any leaders in the back now but our situation might not be all that bad. We have Rojo now and Jones, Evans, Smalling, Rafael etc. are very reliable, it's just that they can't stay fit all at the same time. Blackett has also been a pleasant surprise, at least to me. Shaw is also coming back soon.
We just need a reliable veteran CB in the winter or summer and we could be in very good shape.
We don't exactly need Vidic, we just need a world class defender since Jones is always injured and Smalling & Evans are not title winning quality.
We'll miss him more as a personality than a footballer. The same applies to an even great extent with Rio and Evra. I think our issue not getting a top class CB, I had no issues with Vidic and co leaving.
I think he had one season left at this level and it would indeed be a side worthy and capable of winning the Premier League. However, I think Phil Jones has looked great with a run at CB.. Possibly our best player this season up until Di Maria came along.
Really disappointing that he got injured, but if he can get over these problems in the near future then I think he can be great. He'll probably not reach the level Vidic was at a few years ago, but he'll come reasonably close and be good enough to challenge for all major trophies. I think we're fine with the CB's we have now for this season, but breaking the bank for Hummels would definitely be a good decision if we can tempt Dortmund.
Blackett is someone I like as well. Can't say he's done much wrong during his time in the side, but we'll have to see what LvG does and we know he likes his left footers to play as the LCB. That could mean first choice for the RCB are Jones & Smalling, with Rojo & Blackett for the LCB. I think Evans is most likely to get pushed out of the side now, as his form has been pretty average for a while in my opinion. Some fans will disagree and not rate Smalling, but I'd argue that even if you don't think he has progressed quick enough, he's definitely at least stayed the same and put in more good than bad. Evans, in the last 18 months or so, has definitely gone backwards.
The main thing that would worry me no matter if we had Vidic, Hummels, Vidal or another World Class talent is that I still think Chelsea will be extremely difficult to pry the title away from this season.
Really disappointing that he got injured, but if he can get over these problems in the near future then I think he can be great. He'll probably not reach the level Vidic was at a few years ago, but he'll come reasonably close and be good enough to challenge for all major trophies. I think we're fine with the CB's we have now for this season, but breaking the bank for Hummels would definitely be a good decision if we can tempt Dortmund.
Blackett is someone I like as well. Can't say he's done much wrong during his time in the side, but we'll have to see what LvG does and we know he likes his left footers to play as the LCB. That could mean first choice for the RCB are Jones & Smalling, with Rojo & Blackett for the LCB. I think Evans is most likely to get pushed out of the side now, as his form has been pretty average for a while in my opinion. Some fans will disagree and not rate Smalling, but I'd argue that even if you don't think he has progressed quick enough, he's definitely at least stayed the same and put in more good than bad. Evans, in the last 18 months or so, has definitely gone backwards.
The main thing that would worry me no matter if we had Vidic, Hummels, Vidal or another World Class talent is that I still think Chelsea will be extremely difficult to pry the title away from this season.
He showed he's United quality almost 6 years ago when at the age of 20 he ate and digested Ibrahimovic and Adriano at San Siro in UCL knock-out stages. What he has to prove is if he's moxy enough to make a leader of that back four and we'll need that given Jones's injury record. For the time being it looks like he fares better with a more commanding partner next to him. He's an easy target for bollocking, partially because some people have never forgiven him his mistake against City (Ballotelli) at home 3 years ago whereas in reality far better defenders (incl. Rio and Vidic) have made far worse blunders against far weaker strikers (Lukaku, Bellamy, C. Cole).
EDIT: Even yesterday (where he was virtually faultless) he got bollocked for a 'shaky' performance by some after apparenty giving possession away time and time again. The truth is, if they're arsed enough to re-watch the game, that he slightly underhit two fecking passes to Rafael in the opposition half and none of those carried a good deal of threat to us.
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Big mistake to let Vidic go (remind me of SAF said that he regrets sold Stam). I would like to move on.. But we can't deny that he can still offer something to the club. His experience and act as our leader is still very important to us as well.
Ok you're talking Evans, you didn't make it clear. What specific game against Milan are you talking about though? I dont recall Evans up against Ibra and Adriano. I remember he played when we beat them at the San Siro in 2010
08/09 vs Inter.
I was disappointed that he left. I expected Rio and Evra to go but I felt we might keep Vidic around for another season or so. In saying that, it could turn out to be for the best if some of our other defenders push on. He certainly isn't the player he once was but he still has good leadership qualities and is still a damn good defender.
I think you have to ask if Vidic had stayed (had he known Dingbat Dave was going to be shown the door)... would he have been happy with a diminished role (ie not playing all the time... allowing the younger players (Jones Smalling ect) more time on the pitch)... because a defense with Vidic at its core had maybe 1-2 seasons left.
Maybe that's the writing he saw on the wall, and took the last chance he had to get a decent contract at another club
Maybe that's the writing he saw on the wall, and took the last chance he had to get a decent contract at another club
Oh ok. Evans has been here forever. He'll never be world class. Fergie really talked him up, future captain, etc.
Totally agree with the OP. I said it last year and I'm still of the opinion that Vidic still had a lot to give. We shouldn't have let him go, and we all know whom to blame for that, but I'll leave that to Rio..
Still excited about the squad we have though, and hopefully Smalling, Jones and Evans will pay SAF back for the trust he had in them.
Still excited about the squad we have though, and hopefully Smalling, Jones and Evans will pay SAF back for the trust he had in them.
He himself said just that only a couple of weeks ago. Had he known Moyes was gonna go he would have stayed on.