If we finish 4th, should Ole get the job full time? [Poll added]

[LoveFootball]

If he gets top 4 it'd be criminal to not give him the job. There'd be too much pressure from fans and media for the board to overlook him

I don't get people who are waiting for big games to assess him and at the same time are pushing the Poch narrative! Poch has been horrible against big teams. For me Poch is still an unknown quantity like Ole at this level, at Spurs he has no pressure to deliver results.

But for him to convince me he has to pull a Zidane and win the CL or come close. Top 4 was always a possibility for me as I was confident Chelsea and Arsenal will lose many points in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Top 4 would be great, but I went for undecided. If he was to win a cup and get 4th then 100% give it to him - why not

 

[Tony247]

"IF we finish 4th, should Ole get the full time job" That's the Question being asked in here, yet I am seeing replies such as "Too early to tell", "Need to see how he does against bigger teams", "I'm undecided". Do people not read before posting?

because it's a moot question

 

[Harry190]

Because of him, I had a Man United dream last night. We were playing City. Were leading 3-1.

 

[glazed]

Isn't he improving Rashford decision skills by calming him down and positioning him better in front of goals? Isn't he improving Pogba, Lingard and Martial in a more consistent manner? Lindelof?

I don't know who's doing what because I'm not the Director of Football. Nor is anyone else. That's the basic problem.

My hunch is that the players realise that every time they win a game without him, it makes Jose Mourinho that much less employable. So they're really going for it.

 

[norm87cro]

Aldo I adore the man I went for undecided. The man management looks great going 4 games in (even if we didn't win them all) and SAFs influence is very obvious. But lets see how he responds to some diversity which will come till the end of the season

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Yes, without any shadow of a doubt.

Solskjaer has a 21 game 'league campaign' in which United have to play every single PL team in the country.

In order to finish fourth, he would need to maintain league title winning form.

If Ole achieves that, he'll have demonstrated he's good enough. How the hell is that not sufficient evidence that he's the right man?

If we finally find ourselves on the right path after 5 years of being subpar, it'd be madness to change horses in mid-stream.

Our last 3 appointments have taught us that good managers can't always replicate their past success at other clubs. Mourinho is one of the best managers in history for crying out loud, and yet he failed! Finding somebody who can show he's capable of doing do it HERE with THIS squad, should automatically mean we stop looking.

But the last 3 managers were known to have a philosophy that was diametrically opposite to what Man Uniteds all about.If we appoint a top class manager who’s committed to playing attacking football(Pochettino,Zidane),then the supporters will be delighted with that...

 

[roonster09]

When Solskjaer took over, ManUtd were 11 points behind 4th placed team and significantly inferior GD (0 vs 21). If Solskjaer manage to overturn that, then he should be in contention and get the job. We are not talking about just 5-10 games, it's 21 games (55% of the league games), so thats a good enough number of games to judge his work.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Let the players decide. If we keep on seeing the type of effort and performances we are seeing the last 4 games then it’s because they are buying in and playing for the manager. I’ve said it elsewhere but I maintain that he’s probably the best available manager in terms of being able to keep a whole squad happy because he’s one of the best examples in the history of the game at making sure you are ready when your chance comes. Ole gets us, has the right ideas, has great connections and with a proper DOF can get on with doing a good job here. The next great manager has to come from somewhere, I say give him everything he needs to become it. I’m tired of having people who don’t care about the club as much as I do in charge, now the main man undoubtedly cares more than any of us.

 

[anant]

Us getting top 4 implies that we are ending up with atleast 75-76 points.
=> 50 points for 21 games
=> 2.38 ppg or 90-91 points over the season

If he gets top 4, the board will be under tremendous pressure to give him the job, plus the newer manager will be expected to perform this well. Additionally, if the next manager fails to achieve, the board will be heavily criticised for not taking the correct decision and choosing a fancy name instead of taking the obvious solution.

P.S. I love Poch and would love to see him manage here, but it would be terribly unfair on OGS not to hand him the job if we finish in top 4!

 

[Rish Sawhney]

But the last 3 managers were known to have a philosophy that was diametrically opposite to what Man Uniteds all about.If we appoint a top class manager who’s committed to playing attacking football(Pochettino,Zidane),then the supporters will be delighted with that...

I'm sorry it's only with hindsight that you can say that LvG's football was opposite Man United philosophy. When he was announced many here were wetting themselves with that one clip of the goal against Olympiakos and proclaiming that was what United philosophy was all about - patient possession and carving out opportunities.

Remember LvG's criticism of Pep was that he was too defensive. LvG was supposed to be an attacking coach. Pochettino is much the same. His philosophy is still defense first and then build an attack and people who think he'll be an automatic success are ignoring the fact that his football also often devolves into boring possession keeping with a decent goals conceded record.

 

[Posh Red]

I don't know who's doing what because I'm not the Director of Football. Nor is anyone else. That's the basic problem.

My hunch is that the players realise that every time they win a game without him, it makes Jose Mourinho that much less employable. So they're really going for it.

That seems awfully like going out of your way to avoid giving the new manager credit, whilst simultaneously criticising the players

 

[DBT85]

But the last 3 managers were known to have a philosophy that was diametrically opposite to what Man Uniteds all about.If we appoint a top class manager who’s committed to playing attacking football(Pochettino,Zidane),then the supporters will be delighted with that...

My last post for the day after wasting 2 talking to a moron. Anyway.

I think if Ole got us to 4th and we continued playing like we are right now, people would be less happy with Poch or Zizou getting the job. That's in part because it would mean Ole has shown title winning form and yet been overlooked after 5 years of almost no title winning form from "experienced" managers who at one time or another portions (at least) of the fanbase were happy to see how they got on.

To be really happy about those appointments Ole needs to do just ok, hit a slump, not pick up points against the "easy" teams and get humiliated by the rest of the top 6.

As has been said before. If Ole does well, they hire him and then we're shit next year "why did you give him the job, he managed a pub side". If Ole does well, they don't hire him and whomever comes in is shit next year "Why did you hire him, Ole had it sussed".

 

[Dave89]

Because of him, I had a wet dream last night. We were playing City. Were leading 3-1.

ftfy

 

[youmeletsfly]

This thread will be something else after the Spurs game if we lose.

I like Ole, I really do, he seems to get the club and seems to be a good manager, but boy he talks a lot, too much at times. Now he's funny and active and jovial, but in a few months that attitude will become a bit boring for most of us I think.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

But the last 3 managers were known to have a philosophy that was diametrically opposite to what Man Uniteds all about.If we appoint a top class manager who’s committed to playing attacking football(Pochettino,Zidane),then the supporters will be delighted with that...

I don't know if Zidane is committed to playing attacking football, I watched his Madrid team quite a bit and they where great at grinding out results in the latter stages of competitions but never watched them and went that a manager who wants to play attacking football, more like that a manager who knows how to get players head in the right mindset in the latter stages of competitions.

 

[DBT85]

This thread will be something else after the Spurs game if we lose.

I like Ole, I really do, he seems to get the club and seems to be a good manager, but boy he talks a lot, too much at times. Now he's funny and active and jovial, but in a few months that attitude will become a bit boring for most of us I think.

Since I was granted a reprieve.

Why do you think he talks too much? Compared to Mou he practically monologues like the finest cartoon villain but he's only really replying to the questions he's been asked. When Mou gave a conference and said about 12 words in 8 minutes and then fecked off he was rightly lambasted for it.

Its easy to be happy and jovial when you;re winning like this. I'm sure he won't be as happy if we get turned over or play poorly.

Just losing to Spurs won't bother too many I don't think. Playing shit and getting rinsed will get peoples backs up, as will playing more defensively and forgetting everything they've done for the last 2 weeks.

A crazy 4-3 either way won't bother anyone too much I don't think, not right now.

 

[Lj82]

Depends doesn't it.

If we get top 4, but get outclassed in the CL and we look tactically naive in the bigger games in the second half this season - then he shouldn't get it.

If we don't lose a single game between now and the end of the year, go far in the CL and he shows himself to be tactically astute in the process, then he should probably get it.

If he lands somewhere in between.... then he should only get it if Poch isn't available.

This is a ridiculous criteria

 

[Tony247]

This thread will be something else after the Spurs game if we lose.

I like Ole, I really do, he seems to get the club and seems to be a good manager, but boy he talks a lot, too much at times. Now he's funny and active and jovial, but in a few months that attitude will become a bit boring for most of us I think.

when? his pressers are not even 10 mins long. And he is giving obligatory interviews. So, I don't think he is talking 'too much'

And I doubt he has time to personally call you and talk for hours

 

[edgar allan]

This thread will be something else after the Spurs game if we lose.

I like Ole, I really do, he seems to get the club and seems to be a good manager, but boy he talks a lot, too much at times. Now he's funny and active and jovial, but in a few months that attitude will become a bit boring for most of us I think.

Pretty sure you are wrong there

 

[Gasolin]

I don't know who's doing what because I'm not the Director of Football. Nor is anyone else. That's the basic problem.

My hunch is that the players realise that every time they win a game without him, it makes Jose Mourinho that much less employable. So they're really going for it.

Even if those players played under Ole before? Damn some people want to see a conspiracy everywhere...

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This is a ridiculous criteria

I'm not saying that's what he has to do, I'm saying if he did that then he should rightfully get the job no?

 

[glazed]

That seems awfully like going out of your way to avoid giving the new manager credit, whilst simultaneously criticising the players

I do think it's a mistake to give the new manager credit. I mean we were playing better within 24 hours of his arrival, so you can hardly put it down to his management techniques. It was clearly the players responding to Jose being sacked. I don't see any of that in a mean spirit - it just seems like common sense.

I may be wrong. The only way to know is if a professional football expert observes the internal mechanics of the club at close quarters with an impartial eye. That's why anything other than appointing a DoF is just random guesswork and hoping for the best. The other approach has failed three times now.

 

[Gasolin]

I do think it's a mistake to give the new manager credit. I mean we were playing better within 24 hours of his arrival, so you can hardly put it down to his management techniques. It was clearly the players responding to Jose being sacked. I don't see any of that in a mean spirit - it just seems like common sense.

I may be wrong. The only way to know is if a professional football expert observes the internal mechanics of the club at close quarters with an impartial eye. That's why anything other than appointing a DoF is just random guesswork and hoping for the best. The other approach has failed three times now.

Just to give the permission to Pogba to get in between the opposition 2 defensive lines or the fact that he trusts Rashford as a 9 or that he allows Martial and Lingard to get out of their zone unlike some other managers should be a sign? And you again ignore he trained Rashford, Lingard and Pogba. They are already 3 of the 4 offensive puzzle the team has. They know each other’s and they have played for him.

 

[Adcuth]

Depends doesn't it.

If we get top 4, but get outclassed in the CL and we look tactically naive in the bigger games in the second half this season - then he shouldn't get it.

If we don't lose a single game between now and the end of the year, go far in the CL and he shows himself to be tactically astute in the process, then he should probably get it.

If he lands somewhere in between.... then he should only get it if Poch isn't available.

If he went 12 months without losing a game, he'd warrant a lot more than a permanent job

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If he went 12 months without losing a game, he'd warrant a lot more than a permanent job

If he went 12 months without losing he'd already have a permanent job

 

[Fredo]

If he gets us top 4, he should get a 1-year contract to see how he fares when all clubs start the season. He has come in the middle of a very difficult season, took a deflated team and made them play good football in the space of 2-3 days since joining. In order not to cause a stir if things don't work out with him as permanent manager, I'd give him a one year contract then provide a bigger one provided we challenge for the title next year.

 

[Stacks]

Ah ok, Martinez could have made the players suddenly do off ball running, and the various tactical changes? I rate Ole because he has already worked with a low budget team and made them win something so he can do it at United. Furthermore, he has played with Rashford, Pogba and Lingard and seems to be able to work with Martial and others.

I have no problem admitting Ole may not be the greatest tactical manager ever but SAF was not the greatest tactical manager too. What made us win was the mental strength and the man management skill he had.
We will see how he manages this team but I would not be surprised if we beat Pep and Klopp teams because we are more unpredictable.
If you wanted predictability, we should have stayed with LVG. Don't laugh, he was able to tell all the players they needed to control before shooting and every attacking pattern had to be trained... remind you of someone? Yes, it's Pep style. Did it work for us?

I am absolutely not denying that we need a better tactical understanding. It's something that has always made our life hard on the European scene, but nevertheless, I don't think Ole is that bad compared to Pep or Klopp.
Just a feeling on this one.

Sure Martinez can. He manages Belgium to their highest world cup finish. He could do that easily. Ole is not some tactical genius all of a sudden. Working low budget in Norway is not comparable to working at United. This is the craziest comparison. Most teams in Norway cannot spend large amounts where as Prem teams spend vast amounts. its just not comparable. Like suggesting steve McLaren won the dutch league so he can win the EPL with United.

Im not calling Ole's approach world class either but DiMateo and Rijkaard (who actually won far more than Kloop) actually won the champions league and people hardly call their philosophies world class. He also had that same Dortmund side in a relegation position in February of his final year before he got the arse.

Getting close doesn't mean youre successful

True but Klopp has guided teams to the final twice and neither were littered with world class players, so his approach is consistent. No one else has managed to get Dortmund that far and of course Dortmund had their best striker snatched by Bayern. Liverpool were only the 4th best EPL side and only had good players in their front 3. the rest were average. it was an overachievement in both cases.

He beat City in the CL with Liverpool to get them to the finals. They were heavy favorites against the rest of the opponents on route to final (of which he won half the matches).

They've also won half their matches this season and lost the other half. Sometimes in a cup competition that's good enough but most of the times it isn't.

As for Ole..there's a gap in the Tippeligaen where Rosenborg didn't win. That's what Ole has done.

Why were they heavy favourites? They had 3 players in attack and the rest of their squad were average players hence why they finished 4th. At the start of the competition no one had Liverpool has CL challengers, fact. This is why Klopp's performance with them was exceptional. They finished behind us who were 19 pts off the top spot. Also I don't give much hype as to what Ole did in Norway as Steve McClaren won the dutch league and no disrespect but there are bigger achievements out there.

Pep's philosophy in Barca was built by Dutch managers before him, he just made the players working harder and harder to get the ball.

Klopp's philosophy is something new in football, but don't forget he took years to find the formula. He also once failed when most of the team finally found the 'cure' of his tactics.

I agree they are top managers in the world, but Ole is not far from them like you said. Pep was winning the league with youth team, Ole did it too. Klopp was winning the league and beating the most dominant team in his country, Ole did it too. Just put Pep or Klopp in Cardiff, I would be amazed if they saved them from relegation. People forget that poor Cardiff was bottom of the league before Ole took over, and they had terrible owner even worst than Newcastle's.

If Ole take us to the top 4, He would be the most wanted manager in the summer, even Arsenal and Chelsea would love to sign him and sack their current manager.

He really wouldn't. one half season top four finish is really nothing in footballing achievements. Rafa Benitez did this with Chelsea in 2013 and no one wanted him. Saying Ole isn't far from Pep and Klopp is hilarious. So winning the Bundesliga equates to winning the Norwegian Premier now yeah? So if Gerrard wins the Scottish Premier league, he should be a candidate for a top EPL job?

 

[RedSky]

The positive with Ole is that we have a number of young players in the squad that Ole managed previously. They'll respect him and listen to him. If we are wanting to change our approach and give our young players a chance in the coming years then Ole is the man to do that imo. I feel as though Pochettino and Zidane would come in and demand transfers which would slow down our youngsters coming through. Pochettino will want the money after being denied it at Spurs and Zidane will want his own players in.

Ole is someone who isnt going to rock the boat too much. If he did reach Top 4 this season then i'd be in favour of giving him a short contract and see how he gets on. Then reasses our options if things go badly. Pochettino would be excellent here, no doubt. But part of me does worry that if he did come here our young players would be sidelined for a while as i'm sure Pochettino would want to bring his own lads in before throwing in some young lads that could risk his job. He'd play it safe and bring in players he knows/hope would perform.

 

[wolvored]

I don't know who's doing what because I'm not the Director of Football. Nor is anyone else. That's the basic problem.

My hunch is that the players realise that every time they win a game without him, it makes Jose Mourinho that much less employable. So they're really going for it.

Love it

 

[DBT85]

I do think it's a mistake to give the new manager credit. I mean we were playing better within 24 hours of his arrival, so you can hardly put it down to his management techniques. It was clearly the players responding to Jose being sacked. I don't see any of that in a mean spirit - it just seems like common sense..

This is also what a lot of pundits are saying. Basically all he's done is told them to go and have fun and enjoy their football and that just Mou going is responsible for this.

To me that's clearly not all it is. The fullbacks (except Valencia) getting forward, pressing the enemy outside their box, quick interchanging, actual movement from our players, people actively seeking out the ball and all the rest of it.

A coach can improve players just with a word in their ear which takes 2 minutes. It's not all done over weeks on the training pitch. Even if all he's done is whisper sweet nothings into the ears of a few players, it's clearly working.

Compare the state of the club when Mou and Moyes were both sacked, Giggs had 4 games in charge literally nothing to play for and no pressure at all, unlike Ole who has longer and more to play for. He played Norwich (W 4-0 finished 18th), Sunderland (L 0-1 finished 14th), Hull (w 3-1 finished 16th) and Southampton (D 1-1 Finished 8th on a whopping 56 points). In those teams he was still fielding Rooney (before he was REALLY bad), RVP, Valencia (see Rooney), Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Carrick, Fletcher, Mata, De Gea. All players that knew what needed doing and had done so just 12 months earlier. And Giggs had been working with and playing with them all year.

Even as ageing as that team was, it should have been 12 points in the bag and more than 8 goals scored and 7 points won.

While it is definitely too early to name Ole as our next manager, and some are getting carried away with a very good start, I do feel its disingenuous for pundits and anyone else to suggest that all he did was tell them to relax and enjoy their football. If it was really that easy Giggs would have won his 4 games too with an arguably better team that were at the time still the PL champions.

 

[#07]

This is also what a lot of pundits are saying. Basically all he's done is told them to go and have fun and enjoy their football is what some would have you believe.

To me that's clearly not all it is. The fullbacks (except Valencia) getting forward, pressing the enemy outside their box, quick interchanging, actual movement from our players, people actively seeking out the ball and all the rest of it.

A coach can improve players just with a word in their ear which takes 2 minutes. It's not all done over weeks on the training pitch. Even if all he's done is whisper sweet nothings into the ears of a few players, it's clearly working.

Compare the state of the club when Mou and Moyes were both sacked, Giggs had 4 games in charge literally nothing to play for and no pressure at all, unlike Ole who has longer and more to play for. He played Norwich (W 4-0 finished 18th), Sunderland (L 0-1 finished 14th), Hull (w 3-1 finished 16th) and Southampton (D 1-1 Finished 8th on a whopping 56 points. In those teams he was still fielding Rooney (before he was REALLY bad), RVP, Valencia (see Rooney), Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Carrick, Fletcher, Mata, De Gea. All players that knew what needed doing and had done so just 12 months earlier. And Giggs had been working with and playing with them all year.

Even as ageing as that team was, it should have been 12 points in the bag and more than 8 goals scored and 7 points won.

While it is definitely too early to name Ole as our next manager, and some are getting carried away with a very good start, I do feel its disingenuous for pundits and anyone else to suggest that all he did was tell them to relax and enjoy their football. If it was really that easy Giggs would have won his 4 games too with an arguably better team that were at the time still the PL champions.

You're right and its incredible that Ole is getting so little credit for his coaching, especially as he does so much of it in plain sight.

Ole and the other coaches spend loads of time on the sidelines talking the players through the game. Basically every time there's a break in play the coaching staff will grab one of the players and speak to them. Now I suppose Ole could just be telling them to show more passion. However, given that he's often pointing, using his fingers and appearing to give direct instructions, you have to imagine he's telling them how he wants them to play.

This idea that Ole's just a Norweigian Kevin Keegan actually defies the evidence of our eyes. Yet because the pundits keep saying Solksjaer's just some sort of mascot our fans are parroting the same opinions. I've heard so many supposed experts attribute our up tick in form simply to the players trying more. Yeah, 100%, the full backs are getting forward and Pogba is focussing on exploiting runs into specific areas of the pitch because of effort...

 

[Schneckerl]

I would even give him the job if he doesnt finish 4th, depending on how well the season goes.

 

[RedorDead21]

I would even give him the job if he doesnt finish 4th, depending on how well the season goes.

I think following him won't be easy for anyone if he comes 5th and does well this season. Players will have a new man to basically not play for and we'll all blame Pooch or whomever.....'because Ole could motivate them'. It's a case of we've started so we might have to finish in terms of Ole and this group of players....who are fragile shall we say.

 

[Ibrahimorich]

He really wouldn't. one half season top four finish is really nothing in footballing achievements. Rafa Benitez did this with Chelsea in 2013 and no one wanted him. Saying Ole isn't far from Pep and Klopp is hilarious. So winning the Bundesliga equates to winning the Norwegian Premier now yeah? So if Gerrard wins the Scottish Premier league, he should be a candidate for a top EPL job?

One half season top 4 finish, starting from an 11 point deficit and a team and club with terrible morale and form would be an amazing achievement. Benitez went to Napoli after Chelsea - hardly a no-one club. If Gerrard wins the SPL he'll have absolutely have proved something and while a top Prem team won't offer him a job I'm sure an Everton level club would if they had a vacancy.

 

[Gasolin]

He really wouldn't. one half season top four finish is really nothing in footballing achievements. Rafa Benitez did this with Chelsea in 2013 and no one wanted him. Saying Ole isn't far from Pep and Klopp is hilarious. So winning the Bundesliga equates to winning the Norwegian Premier now yeah? So if Gerrard wins the Scottish Premier league, he should be a candidate for a top EPL job?

A potential 11 pts gap closed over 21 games and you say this would not be something? Woohoo, we are just going to disagree. In any cases, it doesn't matter, you don't think he's good enough, but Ole has some convictions about the game and he seems to bring the experience needed to score in term of movement or positioning for our strikers so that's quite a progress. And again, I think his knowledge of the club, his connection to SAF is a plus no matter what.

 

[RedNed77]

I'm loving him being in charge but want to see how he does when the chips are down so have gone for undecided in the poll. I just have real issues imagining him getting out the hairdryer or laying the law down when necessary. He just strikes me as a bit too nice. As strange as it is to say it, I think it'd be beneficial if we went on a bit of a shit streak at some point this season just to see if he can turn it around and get us back on course again. I'd definitely want to see this before we give him the job permanently.

 

[2 man midfield]

It’s obviously too early to say at this point, but I wouldn’t be too keen on Pochettino if he’s going to be off to Real 3 years down the line. Right now I’d prefer to see Ole given the job.

Plus, after a succession of managers who were sacked for their inability to make the top 4, it would be nicely poetic to appoint one solely based on the fact he could.

 

[reelworld]

He really wouldn't. one half season top four finish is really nothing in footballing achievements. Rafa Benitez did this with Chelsea in 2013 and no one wanted him. Saying Ole isn't far from Pep and Klopp is hilarious. So winning the Bundesliga equates to winning the Norwegian Premier now yeah? So if Gerrard wins the Scottish Premier league, he should be a candidate for a top EPL job?

Mate, somebody already post the math a a few post before. Basically for United to reach top 4, they would have to be in title winning form or something close to it. If that's happening it's not nothing, it'll be one of the best comeback in the League

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I'm sorry it's only with hindsight that you can say that LvG's football was opposite Man United philosophy. When he was announced many here were wetting themselves with that one clip of the goal against Olympiakos and proclaiming that was what United philosophy was all about - patient possession and carving out opportunities.

Remember LvG's criticism of Pep was that he was too defensive. LvG was supposed to be an attacking coach. Pochettino is much the same. His philosophy is still defense first and then build an attack and people who think he'll be an automatic success are ignoring the fact that his football also often devolves into boring possession keeping with a decent goals conceded record.

Keeping Possesion without any intent was the hallmark of LVG”s reign.Pochettinos Spurs are so much more than just a team that keeps Possesion for the sake of it...Just look at the way the attacking players press high up the pitch....Look at the devastating interchanging of positions between the front 4...Look at the narrow wide players who compress the space in the middle to allow the full backs to bomb on...And look at the way in which Pochettinos teams try to win the ball back immediately after losing Possesion.....There’s no comparison with LVG to be fair...,