If you have tried everything and nothing has worked, what on earth do you do next?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by fastwalker, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Oct 7, 2019
    #1

    fastwalker Full Member

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    Let's face it, everyone seems to have lots of answers, but no-one seems to have defined a viable solution to United's problems.

    There are those who want Ole out, whilst forgetting that not so long ago they were Ole in. There are those want Jose back, less than a year after he was sacked for playing some of the worst football seen at United. There are those who want Pochettino in, yet on current form there is absolutely no evidence that he will do any better than Ole and then there are those who want Allegri in, whose biggest claim to fame is that he was serial winner in a one club league.

    We replaced the colossus of Ferguson, with the man supposedly in his image (Moyes), then we replaced the hapless Moyes, with the experienced and worldly-wise Van Gaal. When that failed, we replaced the worldly-wise Van Gaal, with the serial-winner Jose. Then when Jose threatened to turn the club into a laughing stock, we replaced him with Ole, the club legend, who in a strange quirk of fate has now turned the club into a laughing stock.

    Like I said, there are lots of easy answers, but no simple solutions. With the rebuild seemingly in tatters and a looming relegation battle on the horizon, where do we go from here?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  2. Oct 7, 2019
    #2

    KiD MoYeS Good Craig got his c'nuppins

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    Nobody has the answer.

    Said it in an other thread but the reality is that Manchester United will not return to the good old days under the Glazer ownership, this current board and Woodward running things. The board set the culture, the board are not Manchester United people, they're not even football people.

    We are f*cked until they go. The club is broken top to bottom, and we need to fix the top first...
  3. Oct 7, 2019
    #3

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

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    We haven’t tried everything though, we haven’t tried a hipster manager, we shall do that next.
    Someone who hasn’t peaked, but has shown clear style of play and development of players at a high level and the ability to compete against bigger clubs.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  4. Oct 7, 2019
    #4

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    You try doing the same things but properly.
  5. Oct 7, 2019
    #5

    fergiesarmy1 Full Member

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    Which nut jobs want Jose want back? :nervous:

    116 123
  6. Oct 7, 2019
    #6

    Eckers99 Michael Corleone says hello

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    We haven't tried minimising Ed's role in football matters and filling the void with competent 'football people'. I say try that.
  7. Oct 7, 2019
    #7

    Sweet Square Full Member

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    The issue is that we really haven't tried anything since Fergie left. We've given things a go but completely switched course as soon as it get tough.
  8. Oct 7, 2019
    #8

    Salus Populi Suprema Lex Full Member

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    Well said. Fergie's genius papered over the enormous cracks of the Glazer ownership, but they have been badly exposed ever since. Their only concern is the balance sheet and we are in trouble until they go.

    In the meantime we can only persevere and hope we can find another manager capable of overachieving under such a lousy board. The club has been through far worse. We lost our greatest side in a plane crash; were relegated in 1974; didn't win the title for 26 years. We will turn the corner again, but we have a huge task ahead of us.
  9. Oct 7, 2019
    #9

    the chameleon Full Member

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    In other words we’ve tried hapless.
    We’ve tried worldly and wise.
    We’ve tried a serial winner.
    We’ve tried inexperienced club legend.

    That’s the thing. We’ve tried different things. But not combinations. None of these coaches play attacking football. This is what fans long for. Apart from 6 games in December ole has played pragmatic, clueless football.

    We had a chance to get an experienced, yet still young winner that played attacking football (we haven’t tried this combination). But Ed sold him Disney land for adults.

    At the moment, there isn’t anyone that truly stands out.

    Nagelsman and Rose both tick off youth and good, attacking football, not sure about winning yet. We could take a risk with them.

    We also have a winner, with a pragmatic style and plenty of experience in Allegri. But I don’t think dominating series a with Juventus measures up to winning in a super competitive premier league.

    Then we have young, fairly attacking, wise but not a winner in poch. You could argue that poch with £200m window unlike anything he’s had at spurs could transform us.

    My best bet would be poch, even though he hadn’t won anything. If not nagelsman or rose.

    Allegri just would be a nicer version of mourinho and wouldn’t in the direction we want.
  10. Oct 7, 2019
    #10

    Catt Ole's at the wheel!

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    Yep, we go again.
  11. Oct 7, 2019
    #11

    MisterLupus Full Member

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    Give up then move to Kansas - buy a farm and have a family.
  12. Oct 7, 2019
    #12

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    At this point I'd be happy if they dissolved the club and I could just quit football
  13. Oct 7, 2019
    #13

    bond19821982 Full Member

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    Keep trying . There is absolutely nothing money cant buy in football. If we had spent half the amount of what we spent wisely, we would be one of the best teams now.

    Right persons and right decisions are not exactly a rocket science.
  14. Oct 7, 2019
    #14

    killerboi2 New Member

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    We just keep on going until we get it right. It takes as long as it takes. There is no quick fix now, unfortunately. Moyes was the biggest mistake as he instantly ruined us.
  15. Oct 7, 2019
    #15

    Dinghy Full Member

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    We still haven't tried buying a bunch of good players and getting rid of the shit ones.
  16. Oct 7, 2019
    #16

    United Hobbit Full Member

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    You look at the common link between all 4. Who also said they would wait until the season before appointing Ole or someone else permanently then rushed into giving him the job. We dont know if the subsequent run of results would have still happened but if they had would he have still been given the job? Yes I know he left them in a dammed if you do dammed if you don't position to some extent however he was going nowhere so there wasnt the rush
    Who wasnt proactive in getting the transfers sorted, leaving no time to replace Lukaku?

    You point the finger above the manager. I wouldn't say to sack Ed completely as I think he is good at the corporate side so he should be moved purely to that and stay doing what he's best at, bringing in sponsorship deals- nearly every other page of our magazine and programme is a sponsors advert

    Then appoint a DOF and properly look into a new manager only when one is appointed

    You continue a structured clear out while at the same time signing a mix of established players who can instantly come in and make an impact while also scouting the young and promising players and sign a manager who can properly bring them and our own academy players through the ranks, coaching them properly and allowing them to be slowly integrated into a structured, well coached side where they can be surrounded by players who can help them through a game if needed
  17. Oct 7, 2019
    #17

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

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    Start to realize that maybe the way you assess the situation and approach the solution is at fault.

    Then you get people who can assist you. It's not about relinquishing power since better results will strengthen your status among the owners too. It's about not playing your version of monopoly just because you think you're good at it.

    Someone on the board should tell Ed that "it's either a snowglobe or we're going around in circles".
  18. Oct 7, 2019
    #18

    dove Full Member

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    We have tried everything except hiring a good manager, should try that.
  19. Oct 7, 2019
    #19

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    That's what everyone does. They don't stand on their hands telling themselves that they tried everything, they simply think "we didn't do it properly and we will improve the execution". United fans have been so used to SAF stability that they fail to accept that in football everyone fails and everyone tries again with small tweaks until it works.
  20. Oct 7, 2019
    #20

    Powderfinger Full Member

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    You haven't yet tried the most obvious thing:

    1) Hire a young manager with a good sense of modern tactics who has had some success elsewhere playing attacking football.

    2) Then buy some players just entering their prime that manager wants so that he can build a team out of them.

    That United hasn't given this a go in seven years is honestly quite astounding.
  21. Oct 7, 2019
    #21

    Mourinhonista Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    The talent of the players isn't a match for the ambition. Some young players didn't develop as expected, reasons are injuries or loss of focus.

    You can criticize the managers all you want but when comparing available individual quality United have been far off. United don't have one winger who has the ability to become world class in the near future, no.10s are of championship quality and no cover for midfield. Where are the goals coming from?!

    Sure United did spend money but at some point we stopped and others teams don't. If money is an issue, then try to copy Chelsea, despite the ban they could bring in quality players all around.
  22. Oct 7, 2019
    #22

    van Nistelrooy Full Member

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    There is only one possible way to incite a positive change.

    Get rid of the Glazers and Woodward once and for all!

    A potential protest in the summer seemed to gather pace, but turned out to be absolutely nothing. A protest outside OT, anti-Glazer/Woodward banners inside should be the start. "Trying to hit the Glazers where it hurts" is never going to work. Forget you're not supporting the sponsors and unfollowing on social media. We need to hit them hard with our voices.

    COME ON!! Force the Glazers and Woodward out. Changing managers won't solve the real problem. It won't be easy and will take persistent efforts, but it is far better than anything else that will help us.

    Green and Gold till the club is sold.
  23. Oct 7, 2019
    #23

    LoneStar Full Member

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    Reduce Woodward's role to just the commerical side of things.

    Set up a proper structure with a DoF and people who know football. Let the DoF hire the manager and support him in transfers.

    But most importantly get the manager right. Let's be honest, Liverpool were going nowhere before Klopp came. Even now their midfield is nothing special, but they just won the CL.
  24. Oct 7, 2019
    #24

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    This is true. We don't have the right structure at the top to succeed as an actual football team - any young progressive manager will lack the support to succeed. We don't have the attacking talent. Any seasoned veteran will butt heads with the board once he realises they aren't going to sufficiently back him and it'll go to shit.

    We are screwed, basically.
  25. Oct 7, 2019
    #25

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    It's nowhere near as doom and gloom as people think, football can change quickly.

    Let's just assume the Glazers and Ed stay and we function much as before. A new manager coming in will likely have, at a minimum, £100m per summer window (likely much more but let's be pessimistic) which is enough in my mind for 2 top level additions per season or one, more blockbuster, deal. Also Pogba will leave and he is a £100m player so pessimistically let's add another £50m to the budget.

    The key really is the manager here, it's not about the owners or Ed. Our current team on paper should be in the fight for top 4, it's definitely not in the fight for the title but we have enough quality to be in the mix. Our injuries have been substantial but we should not be giving the job to a rookie manager or any manager who is not proven in one of Europe's major leagues at an absolute minimum. Any manager moving forwards must have some kind of body of work to fall back on, proof of what they are building towards and the types of players they would look to bring in.

    We have a good enough defence at this time, I think Shaw likely won't reach the heights I had hoped but he is solid enough and we have a decent amount of cover for CB and FBs. We don't need any more investment here for now.
    Midfield is where the crux of our problems lie, and if we can find a strong DM as well as the elusive RW I think the base for our team is there. Then it's a case of trying to lure a striker in who is proven at the top level and generally supplementing the squad with more Dan James type signings around the £20m range.
  26. Oct 7, 2019
    #26

    Catt Ole's at the wheel!

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    Totally agree and I've been saying the same thing. But apparently it won't work and we are doomed.
  27. Oct 7, 2019
    #27

    LJJT Full Member

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    Play 442
  28. Oct 7, 2019
    #28

    Catt Ole's at the wheel!

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  29. Oct 7, 2019
    #29

    RedChisel New Member

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    So Premier league, La Liga, Serie A and 2 time Champions league winning Jose Mourinho isn't a good manager?
  30. Oct 7, 2019
    #30

    dove Full Member

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    Past his best.
  31. Oct 7, 2019
    #31

    Buster15 Full Member

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    Correct.
    The only thing in common is Woodward.
    However, it would be silly in the extreme to think that there is one single problem.
    There are many different problems at all levels of the club.
    All of these problems have to be defined and solutions found.
    But you cannot do all of this immediately.
    So it has to start with the obvious.
  32. Oct 7, 2019
    #32

    reddev3 New Member

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    We haven't tried everything, we haven't tried poaching a manager from a club that is doing well at the time.
  33. Oct 7, 2019
    #33

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    Totally untrue. We have not tried everything.
  34. Oct 7, 2019
    #34

    Greck Full Member

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    False premise. You purposely eliminated the two viable managerial candidates just to paint a false image that there's no where to go from here
  35. Oct 7, 2019
    #35

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    We haven't tried prioritizing a certain style and identifying emerging talent who fit into the style and then leveraging our financial power to secure that talent while also ensuring we hire a good manager with the experience to handle the fragile-yet-brilliant egos of modern footballers. After we try that then we'll have tried everything.

    But you know, an official lamp sponsor is just as good.
  36. Oct 7, 2019
    #36

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    In my opinion everyone is going about this the wrong way. We are what we are now and have this squad of players till January transfer window.
    What does Ole do? Play the same old team every time and every time it fails.
    Ole's job is now. This time and not what happens three years down the line. Yes he needs to have the basis of a good team three years down the line too but not at the expense of destroying the club now by getting us relegated.
    So he should get the players he has now to play the best of their ability. Not try to get them to play a way he wants them to play but they are not capable of playing. This is what is happening now.
    We need to change. Jones comes in place of Matic. Rojo to go on the left side of midfield, Scott on the right side and Pogba pushed forward in midfield. Two up front with Martial and Rashford/ James/ Greenwood.
    The job of Jones is to stop them coming through the middle. He is not a bad player and SAF has played him in midfield. Rojo is also not a bad player and he is quick, can tackle, can dribble , can shoot from long range and is a good header. His job has to be supportive and not left them play in the inside right space. These three will begin a bit of steel into our midfield and that would let Pogba move forward and reduce his defensive responsibility.
  37. Oct 7, 2019
    #37

    eire-red Full Member

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    You go all out for Pochettino and back him 1000%. He has everything we want in a manager bar winning a trophy, but he has proven everywhere he has been that he has the ability to improve players he's got, play attacking football and develop young players.

    Spurs' capitulation is worrying, but it has all the hallmarks of a team that knows it's probably gone past its peak and has nothing to show for it. There's something not right at the Spurs at the moment, but I wouldn't be quick to suddenly write Poch off as a mediocre manager all of a sudden. Everything we've seen over the past 5 years has told us otherwise.

    He's not only the best option at the moment, or not as bad as we've got now. Bar Klopp and Pep, he is the best candidate for this club and if there is any chance he could be on the verge of the end of his tenure at Spurs, we should be all over him, and screw how stupid it might look after backing Ole.

    Who here would be more comfortable sticking with Ole in regards to this long term 'plan' we've got going on, instead of seeing Poch as the man to take us forward.
  38. Oct 7, 2019
    #38

    Ballache Full Member

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    You get rid of the guy that tried "everything". I have never seen a CEO make so many shit decisions and survive.
  39. Oct 7, 2019
    #39

    fastwalker Full Member

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    You mean the two nameless ones that you didn't think to mention yourself? Ah that would be right then....
  40. Oct 7, 2019
    #40

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Get over yourself and stop pretending you've tried everything?