I said it previously, but the problem with people who are supporting Ole is they're showing yet again they don't seem to have any set of expectations for the club, the manager or the season. They'll be content with pretty much anything happening and will consider it as just "progress" and "rebuild process". Challenge for the league, finish top 4 only, finish even 5th or 6th, qualify from CL group, get KOed to Europe League, it doesn't matter. They don't have expectations and basing their evaluation for the manager on it. Everything that happens is fine to them, just support Ole blindly till the end of the road.
If you're Ole in, how much time will you give him?
- Thread starter horsechoker
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Consistent season with 3 more pts having played 1 more game? That doesn't make sense does it?
They also spent 260m this summer.
And their CL group was easier.
But other than that you make valid points....hahahahaha
Expecting a manager to deliver consistency and run at trophies in his third season after spending millions is "expecting so much of him"?
Sorry I refuse to accept that we are Arsenal yet.
Until end of season, as usual, if he finish in top 4 he will stay. Simple as that.
So on one hand we have agreement as a fanbase that the team isn't that good and we've recruited badly for nearly 10 years and on the other we should be fighting for the league.
Ole taking the fall for systemic failure from this board. You lot will never learn.
I've said that Leipzig and Istanbul are younger then Nagelsmann.
My point is simple really. Both clubs are relatively inexperienced and they operate with means that are nowhere near to what Ole has at his disposal. Coming 3rd twice in a 1 horse race is hardly spectacular either.
AC Milan's transfer budget is small as well btw. They spent nothing (only loan deals) this summer, last year they spent around 26m euros and they spent around 44m the year before.
It's not people don't see problems or don't want to club to do well. It's that for sone of us we see the club going in a positive direction even if not everything is positive right now. People who say they are Ole in would change their mind if our results became very bad.
Moreover, Ole outters offer few alternatives which we can say with confidence would be vastly superior to Ole.
Like I've said, if Poch doesn't work out, then what?
If we get embarrassed vs City like we did vs Spurs he needs to feck off.
Who agreed that the team isn't good? Bonkers. The team is very good. Expensive and valuable squad. You lot will only judge the manager if you have Ballon D'or winners playing in every position?
I'm Ole in and for what it's worth, I'd give him until he fills all or most of the holes in the squad that he inherited. Ideally that would have been a long way closer to completion this summer just gone but Woody and Judge in their infinite wisdom fecked it up royally.
In terms of timescales, I'd say realistically, it would be at the end of next season. However, the minimum expectations during this interim period before we complete the squad, is top 4 and continued progression and improvement in results and momentum. As long as we achieve that then he shouldn't be expected to lose his job.
In terms of timescales, I'd say realistically, it would be at the end of next season. However, the minimum expectations during this interim period before we complete the squad, is top 4 and continued progression and improvement in results and momentum. As long as we achieve that then he shouldn't be expected to lose his job.
No it's not like that. I think we have a great squad that's capable of title challenge. I think we're now ready to take it to the next level. I also think Ole will never be the one to take it to this next level. He's a top 4 manager at best and no matter what, can't see him helping us winning the league. If the target this season is to just finish top 4 then well done, I'm 99% sure we'll manage it, because the quality of the squad is better than the majority of the league. When does top 4 stop being enough and we decide it's time to hire a manager with a bigger chance to do more with these players ?
City parted away with Pellegrini because they found Pep available and knew that Pep would bring far more to the club and to the team than Pellegrini, even though the latter wasn't doing any bad, but that's how it's. They wanted to take it to the next level. Guess what, it happened.
If Poch doesn't work out then we move on to the next manager, then next and next. What's "then what ?" Hiring a manager who fails isn't the end of the world. All big clubs around us have been appointing and sacking manager every 2-3 years. It's the nature of football.
The zombie Arsenal fan mentality I am afraid.
I would let him see out the New year and see how it goes.
We've seen this team has the ability to beat anyone on their day, we just need to nail down the consistency. Plus Traore is coming in January and could prove to be a good effective signing. Yes those last two games of the CL where a disaster, but we have a decent standing in the league a the moment, and have a good chance to catch up to the leaders. But if it begins to go downhill fast in the PL/domestic cups and our consistency does not improved (or gets worse) thats when i would feel we need to make a decision. As we really need to be playing CL football next year, and i cant see us winning the europa league.
We've seen this team has the ability to beat anyone on their day, we just need to nail down the consistency. Plus Traore is coming in January and could prove to be a good effective signing. Yes those last two games of the CL where a disaster, but we have a decent standing in the league a the moment, and have a good chance to catch up to the leaders. But if it begins to go downhill fast in the PL/domestic cups and our consistency does not improved (or gets worse) thats when i would feel we need to make a decision. As we really need to be playing CL football next year, and i cant see us winning the europa league.
It's more to do with expectations, we got knocked out the CL that's a black mark against Ole no doubt, minimum expectation is to get out of the group so we are below expectations there.
But we on still very within our expectations in the league though and while that remains Ole wont be getting sacked, top 4 again this season would be an achievement better than any manager since SAF has managed. If that happens than next seasons expectations would be a title challenge. If we finish outside of top 4 or go on a real bad spell and fall away from the top 4 race than at that point calls for his head are fair.
We cant call for his head after every bad result like what happens now its ridiculous, he deserves his chance after last season to show that he can deliver the top 4 again this season anything else would be a bonus this season if he doesn't deliver than the axe should fall.
That's not true at all.
You just made up that up.
Progress falls in with with certain position finished in league, or cups.
Myself, and a lot of people in here who support the manager have already stated high finish again in league and possible title challenge. All gearing for a legit title run next season, reason we aren't flat out demanding it is as we can see their is still a lot of holes that need filled and I think 2 windows at least could sort that out, as well as shifting the deadwood.
If the team completely catapulted from here on in dont think much be looking him to continue past christmas.
Lot of hyperbole around the fanbase at the moment. Most of us been fed up with the same set up behind the scenes and constant change of managers, where as at the moment this isn't even close to any of the managers before they got sacked, so not sure why some keep pretending it is. Just drama
I'd give him all the time in the world. We're in great shape with a full squad to choose from, able to compete in several European competitions per season, financially stable, firmly anti-racist, and always manage to play our games every single week (no covid here, unlike that wee club up north).
Some people are never happy though. It's like those people said: everybody wants to rule the world.
Some people are never happy though. It's like those people said: everybody wants to rule the world.
Define "catapulted" ? If we finish 5th in a very close race with the 4th position team it'll be good enough for him to continue ? Is "catapulting" means finishing 8th-10th ?
I bet you if we finish 5th with close points tally to the 4th many here even including you will say "progress", "rebuild process" and "enough changing managers" and will be happy to see him for another season.
We won some trophies with Mourinho and had more of a plan. The fans just didn’t like the plan that’s all.
Mourinho is the best manager we’ve had post Sir Alex period. We got results under him and finished above 80 points one year so yeah he did better than Ole.
Catapulting to me would be going on a run right now of loses and going right out of the current mix we are by chritmas.
I can also bet you I wouldn't say at all again you are just making it up
Last season I might have had that energy end of season as we were deep into a start of rebuild but this season I would like to be finishing high up table again, and hopefully fill in the holes from next window and following.
But if I thought for a second he lost the players, I'd be first to say hes a goner.
It's not this blind devotion doesn't matter how bad things are.
As I say drama. We are doing well in my opinion
He has a great shape squad to choose from and we keep getting embarrassed. It’s not good enough.
Are you taking the mick?
I've heard several radio people state they think he'll be sacked if we lose to City.
I don't think so. I think he's got he job until the end of the season at least as long as we're in a european qualification position, europa league included.
I'm not "Ole in" but I do certainly respect the opinions from both camps. However I have yet not read a convincing argument from a single person who wants to give him further years at helm so please anyone try and convince me why he should be given more time when all I've seen from his tenure so far is nothing but inconsistency.
Again, it's so irrelevant. You are describing club's status. RB Leipzig & Istanbul are very small club compared to us. But this doesn't counter my argument about them being good team and we are in toughest group because club's status doesn't reflect to team's current level.
Right now RB Leipzig as a team is considered as top team in the top league Bundesliga which reflect to where they were last season in Bundesliga and how they were semi finalist of CL. While Istanbul is the champion of the Turkey SL which tells you enough they are better team than the PL low table team, being 9th in 11 games is just a lazy conclusion.
You can't justify football team based on financial power. If it's the case then why Bayern isn't beating RB Leipzig last week?? We are a team that has problem since 2014, and the problem are growing and growing and growing. The more problem, the more money it will cost you to fix it.
I'd give him till the end of the season, lets be honest we had no chance of winning the champions league, a quarter final would of been nice but being realistic we have a great chance to win the europa league,
You mean 'capitulating', right? Otherwise it's a very confusing conversation and definition.
So if we finish 5th in close race with 4th team it will be good enough for another season under Ole? You have dodged this part.Catapulting to me would be going on a run right now of loses and going right out of the current mix we are by chritmas.
I can also bet you I wouldn't say at all again you are just making it up
Last season I might have had that energy end of season as we were deep into a start of rebuild but this season I would like to be finishing high up table again, and hopefully fill in the holes from next window and following.
But if I thought for a second he lost the players, I'd be first to say hes a goner.
It's not this blind devotion doesn't matter how bad things are.
As I say drama. We are doing well in my opinion
Because if catapulting for you means a long run of terrible losses and then finishing 8th - 10th then I don't think we will ever sack a manager again. The quality of the squad is so much for something even remote to that to happen.
It just fits what I'm talking about really. You guys absolutely don't have expectations for the team. Anything but a ridiculously terrible run of results is fine.
If you want to prove otherwise then say that finishing anywhere less than 3rd where we finished last season won't be good enough?
My god, I'm sick to death of some of you and your denial of basic facts. My fecking God it's tiring. I don't give a shit how you feel about Ole, you're entitled to be as deluded as you like, but I swear half of you would deny the fecking sky is blue.
Yes, CONSISTENT SEASON, need it fecking spelling out to you @Nou_Camp99?
Lampard has lost once all season so far, in all competitions, to last seasons Champions.
We've lost 6 times already this year, 3 in the league alone. We've lost to Crystal Palace, Istanbul, and got twatted 1-6 at home, oh and got dumped out of the CL at the group stage.
How many get on the Liverpool team?
I haven't dodged anything. I've stated my expectations for the season.
High finish ie 3rd again, possible challenge, all geared for next season, as I think it be stupid to expect this squad to win the league so would be unrealistic. Another 2 windows be perfect.
If he came 5th I would expect him to be replaced. You just inventing this narrative where everyone just madly in love with the manager so he can do whatever, we still back him. Not be the case at all. I've always been fair with managers, when it's time it's time I'll be first to go. This isn't close to that time.
What is a ridiculously bad run for you?, as it seems we lose a game, we are in the sacked territory with some fans, absolute dooms day scenario.
Reason why I stated a capitulation for a reason he would have to go, is because if say come Christmas time we managed to be sitting 8th to 10th after jose like slump he had, miles from the mix, then it's defo time for him to go this season.
What is not fair grounds is people wanting him gone weeks ago because we were bottom half of the season 6 games in. So imagine how stupid that would have been sacking him, when now we are right up at the top, and a game win away from being 2 points off the top.
This is what I mean by dramatics of it all.
You’re comparing our current squad to a near historically good Liverpool side & you don’t see the flaws in your argument.
Who cares if they get into the pool team, this squad/team shouldn’t be conceding 3 in Europe in that manner; Sevilla last season was bad enough to capitulate again last night was malpractice.
Give example of this you called ‘’don’t have any set of expectation‘’. Where is that narrative coming from? Because we have created similar thread before and lot had expectation.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-should-be-the-realistic-expectations-for-2020-21.456474/
I have one, finish in top 4 with 80 points or plus and that’s basically also progress. I’m sure majority people in that thread say similar things about finishing in 76 points plus or 80 plus points and considering where we are right now, it’s possible which is why those people are still willing to give Ole a chance.
Do you have expectation, and when I say expectation I mean realistic expectation?
With Klopp managing them? A good few I'd imagine.
He'd do wonders with a few of our players, look what the fecker managed to do with Mikhi, Kagawa, Henderson, Firminho, Sahin, Götze, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Jota etc etc
Who thought any of them would be as good as they were/have been under Klopp? Who honestly thought that Newcastle midfielder, Wolves forward, Hull left back, or Jordan Henderson would be part of an all conquering side?
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Fair enough if you think if he finishes 5th he should be replaced.
As for what a bad runs means for me, these were my expectations for the season back in July :
I still stand by them. CL has been fecked up so let's see what will happen in the league and cups.
Because I mean, all Klopp has ever done at Dortmund and Liverpool is buy ready made World Class players of course. Biggest spender in World football Klopp because he has to have them "ready made".
Any more stupidity to share for the evening?
Then we move on and get Nagelsmann if he is still on the market then which quite frankly looks highly unlikely
I wouldn't be that far of that.
Champs league always a bonus for me at the moment. Not going to lie we f##ked that bit up no getting out of group after being in control.
The season has to play out to see where we are at and evaluate then
They have 3 more pts and we have a game in hand so there's no logic to what you're saying. Ole is keeping pace with the top teams right now.
If this season isn't got any trophies, sack him
We are "trophy hunter"
IMO
We are "trophy hunter"
IMO