Indian Elections 2014

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
I qualified that statement with 2 riders. 1)Manmohan sing having political capital and being in control of congress. 2) having full majority with support in parliament alone.

Not that ever would have happened but in that scenario which Modi is in, MMS would have done a better job. Vajpayee much better.

And i actually hate Manmohan singh's lack of guts and Not at all fond of Congress.
That if/else doesn't matter much. I don't think he would have done any good with Congress having majority. About 'having control of Congress,' it is very hypothetical. I mean, he had no leadership qualities and could never have been control anyway. I think, if Congress had majority, he would have been relegated to just being Fin Minister at best. He is very intelligent and learned person obviously but as a PM he is not even comparable to Narendra Modi already and could never have been. He was never PM material. If not for jokers like HD Deve Gowda and IK Gujral or likes of VP Singh and Chandrashekhar, I would have branded Manmohan Singh as worst PM ever of India, worse than Rajiv Gandhi. Fortunately those 4 listed above were PM for very very short time. Manmohan was there for 10 years.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
There is evidence of slogans being raised but those actually on video raising them slogans haven't been traced yet. Expected to be kashmiri's apparently.
Precisely. As I said, none of the students arrested were seen chanting the videos.

There IS video proof of these video slogans. Not only at JNU but it was followed by Jadavpur Uni as well.

I very well know what is going on at HCU and I KNOW who is doing it and why. There is nothing 'questionable' about VC returning, some random bunch of student don't get to decide on that. ABVP also has goon elements in them and I anyway don't like the concept of student union in first place, of whatever party. Students should be focusing on study while at uni. That doesn't happen in some Univ and in cases like JNU, some profs too are sell-outs driving agenda, as they have done all these years.

The matter of different opinion is what you get when mythological events too are twisted, just like in Mahishasur case, which is hilarious. (Popularized by Irani, lol). No wonder opposition want to keep lower classes poor and uneducated, as they have done all these years, so that mythological events too become 'matter of opinion' and then conveniently used to create divide. I am surprised some educated people too believe that but each to their own.
It is not a random bunch of students at HCU at all. First, the VC is pending an inquiry on his role on suicide of a student and was on a leave. Second, the people who are opposing him are the faculty members and students union of the same university. And at such sensitive times, when there is a nation-wide student movement against the treatment of Rohith Vemula, it is grossly inappropriate at best to reinstate the same VC. It is a matter of common sense more than anything. The fact that in the present government Mr. Arun Jaitley was the former president of ABVP tells a lot about the importance of politics at students' level. The idea that students should not get involved in politics is naive at best. After all, politics itself is a form of education and perhaps of the most important kind for nation building. I would want my nation's students to be aware of the government policies surrounding them and trying to make an opinion on it rather than sitting back and letting government do everything for them (trust me that is what is happening in Nepal). Politically educated students are essential in a healthy democracy.

And the mythological facts aren't twisted at all. We can of course discuss whether myths are really necessary at all or not, but to ignore the culture and values of marginal groups as uneducated is highly insensitive. Perhaps you would label the whole Ravan worshipping population as unguided people who hold their opinions as well? These were not twisted divisive agendas up till very recently. It was very well understood in folk traditions of tribal India that the "demons" are well celebrated. It would serve you well to read a little on resistance to Hinduism by tribal and indigenous population of the time before dismissing "twisted" mythological events as hilarious. Or are you insinuating that religious sects are to have no space in modern India?
 

Akshay

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
10,860
Location
A base camp for the last, final assault
Expectations from Modi are too high as well and hence it is possible to be disappointed in some aspects. It is also not as if they haven't done any mistakes, politically, in last 2 years, but to me, it is a government who has the intent and ambition to improve India greatly. One may call some of it over ambitious. All the more to turn those promises into reality is not a 5 yr job and in Country as complex as ours and with so many political parties, it is tough. Hopefully under BJP/NDA will get at least one more clear mandate in 2019.

Opposition needs to get better as well. Right now it is just destructive politics on their end and for Congress it is survival attempt. AAP, I initially thought had good intent at least, now I am not sure of that. Besides, unless AAP becomes a truly national party, there is no point in having high hopes.
For country, it will be better if that opposition is Congress, but reformed one, not one hiding behind Gandhi name. Otherwise, from 1977 till 1998, every time a 'third front' or coalition of regional parties has formed government, it failed miserably and it will in future too. More than 1989 and 1996, if 1977 is any indicator, people should always be wary of putting hope in a third front. Although in 1977 it was more of just 'second front' to Congress, not third. More than 300 seats and still couldn't last 5 years and there was split.
I think a large problem is that the bureaucracy has gotten used to Congress Raj. BJP will need to show it is here to stay before they can really make inroads into the mess that is the Indian administration. If BJP can hold onto majority in Lok Sabha and make more gains in Rajya Sabha I think change can come. Of course opposition will try to destroy every positive policy to stay alive but to be fair BJP has also done this as the opposition.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
And at such sensitive times, when there is a nation-wide student movement against the treatment of Rohith Vemula, it is grossly inappropriate at best to reinstate the same VC. It is a matter of common sense more than anything.
Again, there is no 'nationwide' movement. It is a movement backed by student unions affiliated by opposition. No, it is not common sense, common sense is opposition stopping dirty politics.

Mr. Arun Jaitley was the former president of ABVP tells a lot about the importance of politics at students' level. The idea that students should not get involved in politics is naive at best. After all, politics itself is a form of education and perhaps of the most important kind for nation building. I would want my nation's students to be aware of the government policies surrounding them and trying to make an opinion on it rather than sitting back and letting government do everything for them (trust me that is what is happening in Nepal). Politically educated students are essential in a healthy demo
You don't need to be driving agendas by forming unions as students to understand country's politics. I think I know India's politics very well and never bothered with any such shit. Colleges and Uni are for studies. For being politically educated, you don't need to form unions and then drive what the party you are affiliated to want you to do.

And the mythological facts aren't twisted at all. We can of course discuss whether myths are really necessary at all or not, but to ignore the culture and values of marginal groups as uneducated is highly insensitive. Perhaps you would label the whole Ravan worshipping population as unguided people who hold their opinions as well? These were not twisted divisive agendas up till very recently. It was very well understood in folk traditions of tribal India that the "demons" are well celebrated. It would serve you well to read a little on resistance to Hinduism by tribal and indigenous population of the time before dismissing "twisted" mythological events as hilarious. Or are you insinuating that religious sects are to have no space in modern India?
Of course these twisted agendas weren't used till now as those who want to divide on mythological matters could get away with anything being in power. When they changed history books, what big deal is it changing twisting mythological events and saying that it was against marginal groups. Not surprised to see people lapping it up to make trivial points. And I do know enough about Hinduism, don't need lessons from you, particularly when you come across totally ignorant. No idea what 'tribal' population you are talking about with respect to Hinduism, unless you mean from mythological times when Hinduism wasn't the name and it was more of a way of life without such particular name?

Also, no idea what you are trying to say here by saying 'demons' were celebrated, and how do you relate it to "religious sects are to have no space in modern India?" Unless you are insinuating that some random and mostly false and twisting of mythological events (not facts) is what should be referred to as basis for random discussions in 'modern' India?
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
I think a large problem is that the bureaucracy has gotten used to Congress Raj. BJP will need to show it is here to stay before they can really make inroads into the mess that is the Indian administration. If BJP can hold onto majority in Lok Sabha and make more gains in Rajya Sabha I think change can come. Of course opposition will try to destroy every positive policy to stay alive but to be fair BJP has also done this as the opposition.
Yeah bureaucracy is big problem and govt can make efforts on bringing in transparency but it will take time. The politics of India is such that one single party will have control of both LS and RS but yea BJP getting stronger in RS can help.
Yea BJP too in UPA II were disruptive but what sympathy one can have when new and newer corruption cases were coming out that time. Still, it is not something which can be supported at all. If this becomes norm, in the end we, people will suffer.
 

Witchking

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
4,495
Location
Angmar
What is pretty unbelievable is fact that Modi is expected to clear out the mess Congress has made within 2 years? Are you kidding me?

All this crap about bhakts and hardliners is all bullshit. Agendas driven by the corrupt media and nothing else.

He is putting in the efforts. As a common man, i was amazed and happy to hear his speech from the red fort 2 years ago when he spoke of a clean India and the fact that parents need to reign in the boys rather than point fingers at the female population.

Fact is, India's base is quite loose, only by educating people can India improve. Any sane guys keeping tabs on the news will see that idiots like Kejriwal, Rahul Gandhi make each and every news political and keep blaming Modi for stuff which doesn't even happen in BJP rules states. Shows you how corrupt the media is.

For me what matters as an Indian, is that ministers like Sushma Swaraj, Suresh Prabhu, Smiti Irani, Piyush Goyal are doing wonderful work, which mainstream media is covering all this? NO ONE. Instead corrupt channels like NDTV, India Today who seem to be congress cronies are hell bent on creating communal hatred and violence. Congress is NOT secular and has never been. They are still trying to play vote bank politics and i hope they will pay for it one day. It would be great if thee National Herald case is won by Subramanian Swamy.

I hope Modi gets re-elected because i feel confident that we now have a PM who is working towards the betterment of the country and this is the first time many Indians are proud of their PM (maybe since Atal ji)
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
Again, there is no 'nationwide' movement. It is a movement backed by student unions affiliated by opposition. No, it is not common sense, common sense is opposition stopping dirty politics.


You don't need to be driving agendas by forming unions as students to understand country's politics. I think I know India's politics very well and never bothered with any such shit. Colleges and Uni are for studies. For being politically educated, you don't need to form unions and then drive what the party you are affiliated to want you to do.


Of course these twisted agendas weren't used till now as those who want to divide on mythological matters could get away with anything being in power. When they changed history books, what big deal is it changing twisting mythological events and saying that it was against marginal groups. Not surprised to see people lapping it up to make trivial points. And I do know enough about Hinduism, don't need lessons from you, particularly when you come across totally ignorant. No idea what 'tribal' population you are talking about with respect to Hinduism, unless you mean from mythological times when Hinduism wasn't the name and it was more of a way of life without such particular name?

Also, no idea what you are trying to say here by saying 'demons' were celebrated, and how do you relate it to "religious sects are to have no space in modern India?" Unless you are insinuating that some random and mostly false and twisting of mythological events (not facts) is what should be referred to as basis for random discussions in 'modern' India?
Now we resort to name calling, excellent. Opposing reinstatement of a VC on enquiry of role in student suicide is common sense. Nothing wrong with that. If you go to JNU or to HCU, you won't find a foothold of Congress at all, but fringe political parties which are primarily student driven and not driven by any mainstream political parties. The politics practiced there is by the students for the students. Perhaps you should look into these ideas before calling others ignorant and poor masses as "uneducated". Or calling cultural traditions still practiced today as opposed to mythological times as changing and twisting mythological events.
 

kps88

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
22,516
What is pretty unbelievable is fact that Modi is expected to clear out the mess Congress has made within 2 years? Are you kidding me?

All this crap about bhakts and hardliners is all bullshit. Agendas driven by the corrupt media and nothing else.

He is putting in the efforts. As a common man, i was amazed and happy to hear his speech from the red fort 2 years ago when he spoke of a clean India and the fact that parents need to reign in the boys rather than point fingers at the female population.

Fact is, India's base is quite loose, only by educating people can India improve. Any sane guys keeping tabs on the news will see that idiots like Kejriwal, Rahul Gandhi make each and every news political and keep blaming Modi for stuff which doesn't even happen in BJP rules states. Shows you how corrupt the media is.

For me what matters as an Indian, is that ministers like Sushma Swaraj, Suresh Prabhu, Smiti Irani, Piyush Goyal are doing wonderful work, which mainstream media is covering all this? NO ONE. Instead corrupt channels like NDTV, India Today who seem to be congress cronies are hell bent on creating communal hatred and violence. Congress is NOT secular and has never been. They are still trying to play vote bank politics and i hope they will pay for it one day. It would be great if thee National Herald case is won by Subramanian Swamy.

I hope Modi gets re-elected because i feel confident that we now have a PM who is working towards the betterment of the country and this is the first time many Indians are proud of their PM (maybe since Atal ji)
@The Man Himself right now -

 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
Now we resort to name calling, excellent. Opposing reinstatement of a VC on enquiry of role in student suicide is common sense. Nothing wrong with that. If you go to JNU or to HCU, you won't find a foothold of Congress at all, but fringe political parties which are primarily student driven and not driven by any mainstream political parties. The politics practiced there is by the students for the students. Perhaps you should look into these ideas before calling others ignorant and poor masses as "uneducated". Or calling cultural traditions still practiced today as opposed to mythological times as changing and twisting mythological events.
Calling ignorant behavior as ignorant is name calling? I see.
Yea the student unions who are backing the nonsense at JNU and Hyderabad have backing of Congress Union too, along with others. It is another contradictory comment to say that they have backing of 'fringe political parties' and then say it is student driven.

Given you are so much into demon worshipping I guess you may also be fine with a goddess being called slut by these so called marginal groups practising some supposed sectarian tradition. I didn't see you saying a word about it given it is a relevant event when you brought about Mahishasur point in light of recent events. Maybe it doesn't suit the picture you are trying to paint.
 
Last edited:

Witchking

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
4,495
Location
Angmar
@The Man Himself right now -


To be honest, i had absolutely no interest in politics and the way my post has been worded would confirm that. All i care about is the apathy that was there during UPA's 10 year rule is wiped off.

All i care about is that the average citizen is happy with the government which means things are fine.

After the failed media scam which went after Modi for the 2002 riots and failed miserably, they are now throwing mud at him and are waiting for something to stick which can be proved if you are in touch with SM rather than MSM.

Judge Modi in 2019 is all i would say. I fear that Congress will it's anti secular agendas and the media in their pocket will not allow him to be the PM in 2019 and we will have Rahul Gandhi as the prime minister or even Kejriwal and this scares me to no end.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
What is pretty unbelievable is fact that Modi is expected to clear out the mess Congress has made within 2 years? Are you kidding me?

All this crap about bhakts and hardliners is all bullshit. Agendas driven by the corrupt media and nothing else.

He is putting in the efforts. As a common man, i was amazed and happy to hear his speech from the red fort 2 years ago when he spoke of a clean India and the fact that parents need to reign in the boys rather than point fingers at the female population.

Fact is, India's base is quite loose, only by educating people can India improve. Any sane guys keeping tabs on the news will see that idiots like Kejriwal, Rahul Gandhi make each and every news political and keep blaming Modi for stuff which doesn't even happen in BJP rules states. Shows you how corrupt the media is.

For me what matters as an Indian, is that ministers like Sushma Swaraj, Suresh Prabhu, Smiti Irani, Piyush Goyal are doing wonderful work, which mainstream media is covering all this? NO ONE. Instead corrupt channels like NDTV, India Today who seem to be congress cronies are hell bent on creating communal hatred and violence. Congress is NOT secular and has never been. They are still trying to play vote bank politics and i hope they will pay for it one day. It would be great if thee National Herald case is won by Subramanian Swamy.

I hope Modi gets re-elected because i feel confident that we now have a PM who is working towards the betterment of the country and this is the first time many Indians are proud of their PM (maybe since Atal ji)
Well said.
All of it will be dismissed as 'bhakt' speaking though. You see, it is impossible to support Congress or left or any opposition party for that matter right now so the proxy way of creating controversy over trivial matters is the modus operandi of opposition, the sell out media and those who hate BJP.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
Calling ignorant behavior as ignorant is name calling? I see.
Yea the student unions who are backing the nonsense at JNU and Hyderabad have backing of Congress Union too, along with others. It is another contradictory comment to say that they have backing of 'fringe political parties' and then say it is student driven.
Given you are so much into demon worshipping I guess you may also be fine with a goddess being called slut by these so called marginal groups practising some supposed sectarian tradition. I didn't see you saying a word about it given it is a relevant event when you brought about Mahishasur point in light of recent events. Maybe it doesn't suit the picture you are trying to paint.
The fact that they have backing of Congress doesn't mean they back Congress too. These are not equivalent. You can turn pages of history to find the last Congress president of students union in JNU and you will have to go a long way back. These students use their own scholarship money to fund their politics, the money they are supposed to send home because their parents are too poor to sustain on their own and their politics has infact lost sympathy from Indian people (and politicians) long ago. It was this administration which has made JNU and their student activists relevant again.

I am not into demon worshipping at all. I am a Buddhist. But I would respect those who do, not because they were fooled by mythological twisting by foreigners or Congies but because they have been doing so since ages. The fact that there are people who call goddess sluts is not acceptable, but neither is calling professors sluts or threatening their lives acceptable. But just because some people call a goddess slut, denigrating their whole kind as wayward is way off the mark.

The picture I am trying to paint doesn't suit your belief system and that is completely acceptable. But as far as I understand, we are dealing with opinions here, and to call an opinion ignorant just because it doesn't suit your picture is insensitive at best.
 

VP

Full Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
11,559
FFS Modi fanboys need to understand that criticism of BJP does not mean an endorsement for Congress.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
The fact that they have backing of Congress doesn't mean they back Congress too. These are not equivalent. You can turn pages of history to find the last Congress president of students union in JNU and you will have to go a long way back. These students use their own scholarship money to fund their politics, the money they are supposed to send home because their parents are too poor to sustain on their own and their politics has infact lost sympathy from Indian people (and politicians) long ago. It was this administration which has made JNU and their student activists relevant again.

I am not into demon worshipping at all. I am a Buddhist. But I would respect those who do, not because they were fooled by mythological twisting by foreigners or Congies but because they have been doing so since ages. The fact that there are people who call goddess sluts is not acceptable, but neither is calling professors sluts or threatening their lives acceptable. But judrivenause some people call a goddess slut, denigrating their whole kind as wayward is way off the mark.

The picture I am trying to paint doesn't suit your belief system and that is completely acceptable. But as far as I understand, we are dealing with opinions here, and to call an opinion ignorant just because it doesn't suit your picture is insensitive at best.
I never said they back Congress. My point was the movement is politically driven and with support from all opposition and affiliated unions. The students get a lot of subsidy from government so it is pathetic that they get involved in such activities. It is naive to think they use their scholarship for such events, especially in light of recent events.

I called the opinions ignorant because you are trying to say marginal group beliefs are being attacked and destroyed when truth is that they are being used by opposition to polarize. It is laughable as well as sad when opposition are going into trivial mythological events for creating controversies and people toe that line. Just imagine if mythological reference is given by someone in BJP about some God. There will be so much furore about 'regressive thinking' and how we should in 21st century not discuss mythological events/references.
 

FromTheBench

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
10,479
I won't agree that it was overblown by BJP. An event like that is natural to get reaction and it wasn't an event organized by BJP. So I don't know how they can be blamed for 'politicizing' it. The ones who politicized it are the political parties whose affiliated student unions arranged that.

I won't defend BJP on PDP. It is political party and it is for political gain and I don't want them to carry on with that. Akali Dal is slightly different where they are more pro Sikh-majority state than a separate country.
This is not the first time university in India are having rebel type events. They are most often dealt with at university level or much more tactly than making it ultra nationalist show of strength picking up people.

And how the hell is main stream political parties idolizing and defending LTTE and Sikh terrorists or talking to NE militant groups fine but a event on Afzal sedition ? And if so then there is PDP angle.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
I never said they back Congress. My point was the movement is politically driven and with support from all opposition and affiliated unions. The students get a lot of subsidy from government so it is pathetic that they get involved in such activities. It is naive to think they use their scholarship for such events, especially in light of recent events.

I called the opinions ignorant because you are trying to say marginal group beliefs are being attacked and destroyed when truth is that they are being used by opposition to polarize. It is laughable as well as sad when opposition are going into trivial mythological events for creating controversies and people toe that line. Just imagine if mythological reference is given by someone in BJP about some God. There will be so much furore about 'regressive thinking' and how we should in 21st century not discuss mythological events/references.
Of course it is politically driven because the opposition is a political entity. I can quite easily make a counter argument by saying that the "drive" was not by opposition but by BJP itself. What was the need for that? And if you go to JNU, you will indeed find Azaadi slogans chanted all the time (and largely ignored to oblivion till the point ABVP interjected) and two Union Ministers spoke about it. It is not pathetic that students involve themselves in politics from the money they get from the government. These are not mere politicians but students who are actively studying at the same time. I work in a research institute in Nepal. Often I have to meet people from NGOs and research institutes in India. You would be surprised to see how many of them studied in JNU and how the politics there shaped their lives and how they are working now for the poorest sections of the society. The idea of the university is not to get a degree but to produce informed citizens who work for the country and believe me, these people indeed work for the country.

And I genuinely believe the marginal groups and their beliefs are under attack. I can make claims for it which you can counter (as you have by saying these are mere tools used to politically polarize). But that is not ignorance. Its your opinion against mine. And I used the issue of mythology to just illustrate to you that producing a single "Indian history" is going to be a difficult job since there are multitudes of views on the same event from various people so any "correction" is merely going to be a reinterpretation of history. Take Buddha for example. He was borne in what was then India but what is now Nepal. He became Buddha in India. Now when you say Buddha was borne in India either side can claim it to be true or false. The only history that the Indian nation can agree upon perhaps is the struggle against the British.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
This is not the first time university in India are having rebel type events. They are most often dealt with at university level or much more tactly than making it ultra nationalist show of strength picking up people.

And how the hell is main stream political parties idolizing and defending LTTE and Sikh terrorists or talking to NE militant groups fine but a event on Afzal sedition ? And if so then there is PDP angle.
Who are these relevant 'Sikh terrorists' right now? Also LTTE is being defended currently?
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
Of course it is politically driven because the opposition is a political entity. I can quite easily make a counter argument by saying that the "drive" was not by opposition but by BJP itself. What was the need for that? And if you go to JNU, you will indeed find Azaadi slogans chanted all the time (and largely ignored to oblivion till the point ABVP interjected) and two Union Ministers spoke about it. It is not pathetic that students involve themselves in politics from the money they get from the government. These are not mere politicians but students who are actively studying at the same time. I work in a research institute in Nepal. Often I have to meet people from NGOs and research institutes in India. You would be surprised to see how many of them studied in JNU and how the politics there shaped their lives and how they are working now for the poorest sections of the society. The idea of the university is not to get a degree but to produce informed citizens who work for the country and believe me, these people indeed work for the country.

And I genuinely believe the marginal groups and their beliefs are under attack. I can make claims for it which you can counter (as you have by saying these are mere tools used to politically polarize). But that is not ignorance. Its your opinion against mine. And I used the issue of mythology to just illustrate to you that producing a single "Indian history" is going to be a difficult job since there are multitudes of views on the same event from various people so any "correction" is merely going to be a reinterpretation of history. Take Buddha for example. He was borne in what was then India but what is now Nepal. He became Buddha in India. Now when you say Buddha was borne in India either side can claim it to be true or false. The only history that the Indian nation can agree upon perhaps is the struggle against the British.
Well the counter of BJP itself driving these activities will hold no grounds especially when you see those who were involved and who they have backing from.
To me work for the country is by doing your job well and for that the education is important. Those who want to go into NGO side are free to do so but again, being politically involved in Uni hasn't much relation to it.

I will be vocally supporting of marginal groups if they are oppressed on caste basis and it happens in many part of countries but I can clearly see that what is being called 'attack on marginal groups beliefs' is politically agenda driven in these cases. Then there is major factor of hypocrisy and these events only come to light for some caste and religion and get ignored otherwise. Serves as good indicator that it is politically driven, nothing else.
 

FromTheBench

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
10,479
Who are these relevant 'Sikh terrorists' right now? Also LTTE is being defended currently?
Dude Tamil Nadu assembly passed resolution to free Rajiv Gandhi killers.

Punjab assembly passed resolution for Bhullar and Raojoana. Infact at one point Punjab govt. refused to obey lower court orders to hang them.

And check this out -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...ar-commemorating-Indira-Gandhi-s-killers.html

Many other affiliated groups openly celebrate too.

Oh and BJP ally who Modi was hugging in 2014 is worth googling for comments relating to Rajiv Gandhi killers, seperate tamil country, LTTE etc...
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
Dude Tamil Nadu assembly passed resolution to free Rajiv Gandhi killers.

Punjab assembly passed resolution for Bhullar and Raojoana. Infact at one point Punjab govt. refused to obey lower court orders to hang them.

And check this out -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...ar-commemorating-Indira-Gandhi-s-killers.html

Many other affiliated groups openly celebrate too.

Oh and BJP ally who Modi was hugging in 2014 is worth googling for comments relating to Rajiv Gandhi killers, seperate tamil country, LTTE etc...
TamilNadu assembly don't get to decide what should be done with those killers. If I am not wrong, that was few years ago anyway and hardly relevant to current discussion. Thirdly Congress itself recently was OK with pardon. I personally think they should be hanged. It is a joke they aren't till now. Whatever it is, it is hardly anything BJP has got anything to do with.

About that DailyMail article, hilarious line that Congress asked answer from BJP when it is SAD they should be questioning. Shows they really don't care.

Going back to original point if these incidents are your defense of those supporting terrorists attacking parliaments then I don't know what to say. It is obvious why though.
 

FromTheBench

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
10,479
TamilNadu assembly don't get to decide what should be done with those killers. If I am not wrong, that was few years ago anyway and hardly relevant to current discussion. Thirdly Congress itself recently was OK with pardon. I personally think they should be hanged. It is a joke they aren't till now. Whatever it is, it is hardly anything BJP has got anything to do with.

About that DailyMail article, hilarious line that Congress asked answer from BJP when it is SAD they should be questioning. Shows they really don't care.

Going back to original point if these incidents are your defense of those supporting terrorists attacking parliaments then I don't know what to say. It is obvious why though.
I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Not defending anyone.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Not defending anyone.
See I agree on hanging the guilty in those assassinations. In fact the assassination is the reason I have soft spot for Rajiv Gandhi. The security arrangements were pathetic and I don't understand how both PM office and state government of TN could have been be so lax. I have my conspiracy theories but that's a different topic.

My point is, these assassinations are different to terrorist attacks. These assassinations did have background in different terrorist/separatist movements but those are not same as parliament attack by a terrorist who is getting sympathy and being hailed as martyr. With Bhindranwale, where he was killed resulted in the anger among Sikhs. I doubt had he been arrested and trialled we could have seen same furore. You are also ignoring the 'reaction' Congress executed on Sikhs after Indira assassination so for some Sikhs the whole operation bluestar is heavily sensitive issue. Now, students at JNU, Jadavpur or Hyderabad have no reason to feel sympathy for a terrorist responsible for attack on parliament unless it is politically driven.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
Well the counter of BJP itself driving these activities will hold no grounds especially when you see those who were involved and who they have backing from.
To me work for the country is by doing your job well and for that the education is important. Those who want to go into NGO side are free to do so but again, being politically involved in Uni hasn't much relation to it.

I will be vocally supporting of marginal groups if they are oppressed on caste basis and it happens in many part of countries but I can clearly see that what is being called 'attack on marginal groups beliefs' is politically agenda driven in these cases. Then there is major factor of hypocrisy and these events only come to light for some caste and religion and get ignored otherwise. Serves as good indicator that it is politically driven, nothing else.
Once again that is your opinion. The hanging of Afzal Guru was protested in JNU the day he was hanged. In fact, many hangings have been protested in JNU and they will happen again in the future. Slogans of Azaadi too are not new. What is new is the State action against it. So, I repeat again, it was the State which instigated these events. When scholars, scientists, academicians and actors decided to return their awards, it wasn't because they were backed by a political party, but it was a political protest against the State nevertheless. When students occupied UGC, it wasn't because they were backed by a political party but because the State withdrew their scholarships. FTII, HCU, BHU, TISS (just found out about this), ICHR, the list goes on. There is no doubt that these movements got support from Opposition, but these movements were based on genuine protests against the actions of the State which in fact is the driver.

Regarding role of Universities and education, I don't know about you but for me, working for the poor and marginalized is far more "nationalistic" than joining a corporate job and that is what these students do and that is the value student politics instills on them. When we decide to rant about things on internet, these guys actually participate to make their voices heard politically and I respect them for it, and rightly the University should give them a space to do so. And talking about bringing things into light, I have no doubt that media plays partisan politics (for or against BJP and Congress both). But that doesn't mean these things don't happen and they shouldn't be pointed out. Once again, if you participate in student politics, you will find that protests (without media coverage) happen all the time on multiple causes almost on a daily basis. Of course these will be driven by ideologies but they won't be hypocritical as you point out. But while it is wrong for major political parties to cherry pick protests that suit their agenda, it is equally wrong to discredit these protests because they have been picked up by opposition.
 
Last edited:

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
Once again that is your opinion. The hanging of Afzal Guru was protested in JNU the day he was hanged. In fact, many hangings have been protested in JNU and they will happen again in the future. Slogans of Azaadi too are not new. What is new is the State action against it. So, I repeat again, it was the State which instigated these events. When scholars, scientists, academicians and actors decided to return their awards, it wasn't because they were backed by a political party, but it was a political protest against the State nevertheless. When students occupied UGC, it wasn't because they were backed by a political party but because the State withdrew their scholarships. FTII, HCU, BHU, TISS (just found out about this), ICHR, the list goes on. There is no doubt that these movements got support from Opposition, but these movements were based on genuine protests against the actions of the State which in fact is the driver.

Regarding role of Universities and education, I don't know about you but for me, working for the poor and marginalized is far more "nationalistic" than joining a corporate job and that is what these students do and that is the value student politics instills on them. When we decide to rant about things on internet, these guys actually participate to make their voices heard politically and I respect them for it, and rightly the University should give them a space to do so. And talking about bringing things into light, I have no doubt that media plays partisan politics (for or against BJP and Congress both). But that doesn't mean these things don't happen and they shouldn't be pointed out. Once again, if you participate in student politics, you will find that protests (without media coverage) happen all the time on multiple causes almost on a daily basis. Of course these will be driven by ideologies but they won't be hypocritical as you point out. But while it is wrong for major political parties to cherry pick protests that suit their agenda, it is equally wrong to discredit these protests because they have been picked up by opposition.
Those who shout slogans for destroying Country are not doing anything noble. You may try to paint it as some freedom movement but it is dirty politics by students who live on taxpayer's money and waste it doing activities and events against nation. You can keep on repeating that it was instigated by state, it is clear who did it and why. I don't give a shit about those who are returning awards. Many of those are hand in gloves with opposition parties. The hypocrites who want to return awards in support of those involved in organizing anti-national event but are fine with events like Malda are not worth taking seriously anyway. It was all backed by political parties in opposition and was driven by them and hence the strategically and selective chosen time for award returning. I consider it a joke.

Again, what these students do is live on taxpayer's money, vandalize VC's office and promote hooliganism. Many of these guys are political stooges and it is naive to say they do anything worthwhile. Nobody is stopping the few, if at all, who want to work for poor and marginalized after the Uni but there is hardly any correlation between vandalizing during college, organizing events in support of terrorist and 'working for marginalized.' For me study is the most important thing in College and Uni. Doing corporate job afterwards is million times better than claiming to be working for marginalized and then doing what these 'students' do in reality.
 

DM07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
949
Location
India
Those who shout slogans for destroying Country are not doing anything noble.
Please provide proof of this. Everyone has been saying this but I am yet to see any evidence that the slogans were made by Kanhaiya Kumar or any other JNU students. Please dont take any offense.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
Please provide proof of this. Everyone has been saying this but I am yet to see any evidence that the slogans were made by Kanhaiya Kumar or any other JNU students. Please dont take any offense.
I am outside now but I am sure simple search will help you find it. Otherwise I will send later. Only argument can be if kanhaiya himself made those slogans or not as that is not clear from video. Umar Khalid can be clearly seen leading those slogans.
 

DM07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
949
Location
India
I am outside now but I am sure simple search will help you find it. Otherwise I will send later. Only argument can be if kanhaiya himself made those slogans or not as that is not clear from video. Umar Khalid can be clearly seen leading those slogans.
Thanks. Please send.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
Location
Mystic Mountains
Those who shout slogans for destroying Country are not doing anything noble. You may try to paint it as some freedom movement but it is dirty politics by students who live on taxpayer's money and waste it doing activities and events against nation. You can keep on repeating that it was instigated by state, it is clear who did it and why. I don't give a shit about those who are returning awards. Many of those are hand in gloves with opposition parties. The hypocrites who want to return awards in support of those involved in organizing anti-national event but are fine with events like Malda are not worth taking seriously anyway. It was all backed by political parties in opposition and was driven by them and hence the strategically and selective chosen time for award returning. I consider it a joke.

Again, what these students do is live on taxpayer's money, vandalize VC's office and promote hooliganism. Many of these guys are political stooges and it is naive to say they do anything worthwhile. Nobody is stopping the few, if at all, who want to work for poor and marginalized after the Uni but there is hardly any correlation between vandalizing during college, organizing events in support of terrorist and 'working for marginalized.' For me study is the most important thing in College and Uni. Doing corporate job afterwards is million times better than claiming to be working for marginalized and then doing what these 'students' do in reality.
And once again you end up deligitimizing a whole movement because of few chants. As BJP has done. And if you think working for your own money is million times working for welfare of others then I have nothing to say to you.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
And once again you end up deligitimizing a whole movement because of few chants. As BJP has done. And if you think working for your own money is million times working for welfare of others then I have nothing to say to you.
Yea working for myself is million times better than working for welfare. Those who believe in reverse, I don't have problem, best of luck to them, just don't loot more money as tax from me in this 'noble' cause of yours. Finance yourself.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
24,515
Argh, fecking stupid. You just know that these morons like Kanhiaya Kumar and Khalid will join politics now, and that'll be all thanks to the free publicity BJP is giving them.
Yup, you can bet on it. Perfect political launchpad for them
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,846
As far as economy, again current government is doing lot better than the corrupt Congress government for last 10 years.
This is the performance of the corrupt Congress government, can you honestly say the current lot are doing better?
Mihir S Sharma: Farewell, a golden age
Most importantly, there has been an enormous expansion of well-being. Poverty declined two-and-a-half times faster than under the NDA - far faster than at any time in India's history. Partly, that's because of welfarism; and partly because agriculture grew at 2.2 per cent a year under the NDA but at 3.6 per cent a year under UPA-II. Really, this should be all that one needed to say to settle the question of the UPA's place in history, in any halfway moral universe.

But, since this is not a moral but a middle-class universe, here are some other facts. Private consumption - what we eat and spend - grew 40 per cent faster a year under the UPA than under the NDA. Private disposable income - our money, not the government's - grew 8.3 per cent a year under the NDA; it grew a startling 20 per cent a year under the UPA. Assuming five per cent inflation under the NDA and seven per cent afterwards, the NDA delivered real disposable income growth of three per cent a year, and the UPA of 13 per cent a year - 10 percentage points faster. And this growth has not stopped, even as the economy slowed.

Every attempt is being made to improve transparency across departments.
This government (like UPA 2) is trying to dilute our transparency law. Which was passed by UPA 1, btw.

There is a ambitious project of making electricity available throughout the country and regular updates have been provided on that.
It's great they are being transparent about their project! That's good work!
On paper, electrified villages — in reality, darkness
Rural electrification: Centre’s claim exaggerated
Oh.

If anything, BJP govt's most initiatives have been inclined towards 'masses.'
The BJP's economic policies are for the masses. Which is why they mocked NREGA, which has been praised by the world bank for its effectiveness in poverty alleviation? Then quietly raised the funding to 2011 levels (while lying that this is the largest outlay ever)?

The government is so pro-people that the WCD minister is complaining she doesn't have funds for infant and maternal nutrition programs. If you needed reminding, India has among the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the world. It's commitment to helping people includes not releasing a UN report on malnutrition? Why?
The BBC has asked the Indian government why it hasn't been released and when it expects to - but we haven't received a response. We have, however, managed to get hold of a copy of the report. Looking just at the overall figures, India's reluctance to publish the survey is rather surprising. It shows the country has an encouraging story to tell. Indicators of malnutrition are still very high, far higher than most African nations, but they are improving. Ten years ago, two-fifths of children under five were underweight, now it is more like a third. However, the survey confirms large and enduring discrepancies between states, including the continuing strikingly poor performance of the Indian prime minister's home state, Gujarat.
It says 41.8% of children in Gujarat are stunted while 43.8% don't have the all the vaccinations they need, for example. A decade ago a survey found the neighbouring state of Maharashtra had malnutrition figures almost as woeful as Gujarat does now. Maharashtra decided to take action. Sujata Saunik, the head of the state's health department, says it used the data from that earlier survey to design a programme to improve child health. It has been a great success. She says stunting has been cut by almost 41% and in the number of underweight babies is down by 24%.
The government has cut the already tiny health budget by a fifth (including the AIDS control budget by half.) We the people should be ever grateful that we have such caring leaders.
And like all other pro people governments this one too is great at revoking constitutional rights! Bravo!

Which can very well be reason that every time a state election is around, 'coincidentally' the opposition find a reason to polarize people, especially minorities.
Oh yes. BJP has no role in polarisation. None whatsoever. It's just a coincidence that they benefit from it electorally.

I saw you mentioned Malda somewhere.
Here is the paper you call Foxpress. Sickulars must have completely ignored Malda.
Oh, wait. 18 articles.
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...onsibility-to-arrange-security-rajnath-singh/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-leaders-nephew-and-2-who-work-outside-malda/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-trying-to-polarise-voters-says-derek-obrien/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ovt-demands-independent-report-from-governor/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-hindu-leader-kamlesh-tiwari-islam-kaliachak/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...lence-four-key-suspects-yet-to-be-questioned/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ion-denied-to-hold-gadakri-rally-alleges-bjp/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...m-to-malda-as-bjp-leaders-meet-rajnath-singh/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...-for-muslim-group-which-had-called-gathering/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...an-opportunity-for-bjp-to-play-soft-hindutva/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...t-back-after-they-attempt-to-reach-kaliachak/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-as-a-clash-between-the-bsf-and-local-people/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...cops-of-kaliachak-police-station-transferred/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...team-stopped-from-entering-kaliachak-10-held/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...nce-mob-was-chanting-slogans-against-pm-modi/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...olence-48-hours-later-10-held-for-mob-attack/
http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...after-attack-police-residents-exchange-roles/
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...lda-tense-as-anti-tiwari-rally-turns-violent/
 
Last edited:

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
This is the performance of the corrupt Congress government, can you honestly say the current lot are doing better?
Mihir S Sharma: Farewell, a golden ageWhere government (like UPA 2) is trying to dilute our transparency law. Which was passed by UPA 1, btw.

It's great they are being transparent about their project! That's good work!
On paper, electrified villages — in reality, darkness
Rural electrification: Centre’s claim exaggerated
Oh.


The BJP's economic policies are for the masses. Which is why they mocked NREGA, which has been praised by the world bank for its effectiveness in poverty alleviation? Then quietly raised the funding to 2011 levels (while lying that this is the largest outlay ever)?

The government is so pro-people that the WCD minister is complaining she doesn't have funds for infant and maternal nutrition programs. If you needed reminding, India has among the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the world. It's commitment to helping people includes not releasing a UN report on malnutrition? Why?


The government has cut the already tiny health budget by a fifth (including the AIDS control budget by half.) We the people should be ever grateful that we have such caring leaders.
And like all other pro people governments this one too is great at revoking constitutional rights! Bravo!


Oh yes. BJP has no role in polarisation. None whatsoever. It's just a coincidence that they benefit from it electorally.

I saw you mentioned Malda somewhere.
Here is the paper you call Foxpress. Sickulars must have completely ignored Malda.
Oh, wait. 18 articles.
:lol: :lol: "Fair well the Golden age" fecking hell!!! After that line only reading any further of your post is waste of time. I very well know after that it will be articles from usual suspects with agenda. Mihir Sharma of all people! Where do you fit the unprecedented level of corruption in Golden era? Probably for you IT IS golden era. Just a link of glimpse on corruption: http://indiatoday.in/gallery/upa-govt-9-years-9-scams-sonia-manmohan/1/9401.html

The people of the country are fools that after the 'Golden era'(even typing this makes me laugh out loud first) it handed a historic, never seen before defeat to Congress and UPA. BJP made 'development' their agenda so people of this country decided to move away from the 'Golden era of development.' Unbelievable. You do have ability to out do yourself with biased posting. Not sure if you think everyone else is stupid to believe it. I move on.

Yeah RTI is the only measure of 'transparency' and it should be taken as it is and what scroll tells us. You know because Congress went for RTI on their own for it and it wasn't a concept which was pending and being asked for for years. The article is from Oct 2015. The author should atleast have used simple Google search before(you can teach him on this) and would have found that foreign trip details of expenses and what it is bringing in is available from way before that. Even mainstram media were reporting it in Sep 2015. The truth of joke sites scroll I am addressing at end of post.

Your posts on electricity and the one after is so hilarious I am not sure whether to laugh or cry at your biasness. A govt is aiming for 100% electricity. Given it hasn't been even 2 years, there will be work in progress and scope for improvement. But let's out of so many villages pick and choose few and try to paint it badly. The corruption is the way to go for 'Golden age' I am forgetting, not driving initiatives. The Hindu of all the papers I should use to form opinion. You know because they are so unbiased. Hilariously they claim electrified villages were unidentified but not with any basis. Govt has given the min expectations for terming a village electrified. The Hindu mentions those but adds 'could have', 'probably', 'maybe' in that article. An essential when you are driving an agenda driven 'story.'

BJP wins seats in some area. Definitely must be down to rioting happened before. About 'math' on violence you should also do math on how that violence and riots stock up in Congress era. About article anyway I had answered you before questioning methodology followed which you obviously chose to ignore then.
Yeah you found some Malda articles. Great Google search skill as usual. Please send me the links of details of how opposition leaders condemned it, went there and addressed the issue. But wait, your articles are telling us how 10000 Muslims rioting and vandalizing is opportunity for BJP :lol: :lol: And this mob were chanting anti-Modi slogans. Such a noble cause. Maybe they wanted to riot over whole country and are being stopped by Modi. Such an evil.

I don't know who you try to fool with this kind of posting. Yourself, those who don't know anything about the topic or those who know partially. It certainly provides laughs for me though given I know the purpose behind it. Maybe someday I will indulge you and send you articles from select websites. The last time I sent you one, it didn't suit your agenda so you vowed to never read from that website ever :D.
So, copy pasting 'opinion' articles every time is not my style but will give it a try. How to go about it? Google search with my opinion suiting words in search box? Is it the way to do it? Or I need to be careful of website too? It has to be from Hindu or Scroll or Wire or Indian Express? I do play this game with myself seeing your hyperlinks imagining which site they can be from. The Hindu, Indian Express, The Wire or the scroll (lool). Here is one example of scroll driving agenda: http://www.opindia.com/2015/04/how-scroll-and-firstpost-falsely-blamed-modi-for-acts-of-an-ngo/