Investment Investment Investment

[Ranchero]

Firstly, this is not a thread championing Mourinho. He lost the dressing room and had to go.

The timing of Mourinho's departure was surprising. However, not so, if you were aware that you would not be investing in the January transfer window, and know that the Portuguese manager would implode after our failure in the summer.

When Solskjaer came in to not just steady the ship but turn it into a speed boat, my first thoughts were, right that shows we are not going to do anything in the January window, and he has been put in to do the best with what he has got. And lo and behold, no activity other than outgoings in January.

Martial and Jones putting pen to paper is good news, but is masking the fact that we are not investing enough on the pitch to properly challenge at the top level this season, and if Solskjaer gets the job on a full time basis, will that herald a period where he is expected to continue to work with what he has got, with no significant strengthening?

That is my concern.

What we have right now is a squad that is only good enough to be Top 4. Mourinho, for all his miriad of faults knew this. After all, he built some of this.

But that does not mean that he was wrong in terms of needing investment for this season, especially if we have any ambitions to even challenge for the Premier League or do anything significant in the Champions League.

He is right that our central defenders are not good enough at the top level. They are exposed when we play top sides. Against Spurs they were all over the shop and for the Mbappe goal, especially just embarrassing. How Bailly can let that ball get across him is concerning. He has to block it.

We also lack in central midfield and this has been a long-time mantra. While the performances of Herrera and Matic have undoubtedly been a revelation since Solskjaer invited them to pass forward instead of sideways and back, at the very top level, they don't compare. And that is the engine room.

And with Pogba out, who is there? Fred? McTominay? MCTOMINAY? Against even against a weakened PSG?

My concern has been throughout this season, that to compete at the top level we had to invest in at least one top central midfielder and at least one top level central defender. That has not happened.

Sanchez and Lukaku perhaps need to leave to be replaced, so that we have more options in terms of squad. Martial, especially, needs competition to keep him on his toes, because he occasionally goes missing in the big games.

So where we are now, is just about our level.

Ole has brought the spirit of Manchester United back, no question. But the PSG game reminds me of our defeat to Juventus in Turin, nearly 23 years ago, when it was men against boys, a real learning curve for a young, promising but inexperienced United side. It was 1-0, but as Gary Neville once said it could have been 10-0.

I think we, as a team, on and off the pitch, can learn from this. As we learnt from that Juventus game.

However, we never won the Champions League three years later without adding investment to vital Champions League guile. Between then and what had to be the most memorable United victories of my lifetime, we made some vital changes. We had Stam instead of Pallister. Poborsky, McClair and Jordi Cruyff were gone. We had added quality in Dwight Yorke, Blomqvist and Sheringham.

We now have to rely on the Glazers and Ed Woodward. And that sentence fills me with a certain amount of dread.

 

[b20times]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

 

[bonsaiboy]

We've invested plenty in the team recently, it's just that it's been done extremely poorly. For me the summer showed that the club had lost confidence in Mourinho and so were reluctant to spend big just to end up with a new set of players that would be out of favour after a few poor performances.

But I agree that we need to learn from last night, and from all our other performances this season. There are some gaping holes in the first team, some obvious dead wood, and a shocking lack of squad depth. We need to work on strengthening the core of the team and improving our options from the bench. That all requires investment, and it'll be telling come the summer as to how invested the Glazers really are in the long-term future of the club.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Look at our wage we have already invested enough. We just need to be smarter with it.

 

[Red-Man-Walking]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

For competing to top 4 level, sure.

For competing for trophies we currently have 1 left back who's good enough, 1 centre back, zero right backs, 2 midfielders, 2 wide players and 2 forwards (I still think Lukaku can rediscover his prior form). For a squad of 20-25 players to be unable to even select an XI that is of sufficient quality that is abysmal.

 

[Ian Reus]

We've bought 1 player in the last 3 transfer windows.
We need to ship out the dead wood and replace with a much better quality of player.

 

[Thisistheone]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

Thats extremely harsh on Ole.

To compare our squad with the very best, we come out short.

We spend decent and pay good wages but it's still not enough. Our potential is even bigger and we need to be smarter and push harder.

 

[youmeletsfly]

For competing to top 4 level, sure.

For competing for trophies we currently have 1 left back who's good enough, 1 centre back, zero right backs, 2 midfielders, 2 wide players and 2 forwards (I still think Lukaku can rediscover his prior form). For a squad of 20-25 players to be unable to even select an XI that is of sufficient quality that is abysmal.

Fecking spot on this.

 

[VP89]

We definately need to spend. What we spent up till now is immaterial as large amounts were wasted. More players of Pogbas talent is required. I think we are short of a CM, CB, RW and RB. Martial and Rashford are still raw but with a spine behind them they can be well supported to be devastating in attack.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

So comparing our eleven to PSG's last night you think they are good enough? And Ole beats Spurs, Arsenal away but we're blaming him now because he lost his first game to PSG?

 

[Ranchero]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

I think you are wrong. Too many people underestimate what has been done since Mourinho has gone. Solskjaer can learn from this, as can the team, but always remember, that Phelan, who was Fergie's right hand man is by his side. He is seen it, done it, bought the t-shirt. We won't go far wrong continuing with this management set up, in my opinion. I certainly fear bringing someone without United DNA and then clearing out the backroom staff again.

When Fergie retired, I said at the time that it was a huge mistake not just to bring Moyes in, who's philosophy jarred with United's, but to get rid of the backroom staff, including Phelan who had United in their DNA.

The babyfaced assassin cannot be judged on one poor performance against a top PSG side.

 

[AXVnee7]

100% agree. We need arguably our biggest transfer window ever if we want to compete.

That doesn’t mean we will solve all our problems this summer, as that would be unrealistic but if we invest heavily and with purpose it will go a very long way.

 

[thegregster]

Look at our wage we have already invested enough. We just need to be smarter with it.

We haven't.

Our wage bill is behind Europe's elite.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

What are you on about? We have crap players in almost whole of defence. Then we have Mata, Lingard and Sanchez who are past it or not good enough for top level. That doesn't even leave you with 11 players!

 

[AndyJ1985]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

There really isn't. Not even close.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

We need a RW, a RB and another midfielder. Our situation is not as drastic as people are making it out to be.

 

[RedSky]

We've invested in the squad poorly thats been the problem. There's been no structure to it, it's just been completely random. This is why a DoF is so important. Otherwise we'll continue to have the same issues unless we have a Manager who lasts for 5/6 seasons. If we go all in on Oles style of football we also need to make sure the next Manager after Ole also plays the same football so he can continue with the squad.

What we keep doing is buying in players that fits a Managers play style, it then goes wrong. We sack the Manager and the next one comes in with a different playing style which results in us selling players that don't fit with the new style. This results in the situation we're in right now where we have a very unbalanced squad of players.

Bring in a DoF, sell the players that don't fit with Ole and try and balance the squad properly. It should be a very busy transfer window for us this Summer. If it isnt, then it's a big, big concern.

 

[Judas]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

This is factually incorrect.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Do we have the scouts to do it? Fred, Lukaku, Sanchez were all expensive investments.

 

[Hawks2008]

There are maybe 10 players who are good enough to be here, serious overhaul needed once again. We need 2 New fullbacks and another CB, someone to replace/compete with Matić, and the RW has been an issue for a long time. On top of that we have to ship out so much of the dross we have at the club and stop rewarding mediocrity.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Big investment needed but are the Glazers going to give it ,especially if we miss out on the top 4 ?

Last night was a healthy wake up call,in my opinion.

 

[An Irish Red]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

There really isn't though. When you compare our squad to the best sides in Europe we fall short in every department apart from goalkeepers.

 

[Judas]

Last night proved that the glazers need to spend, if we'd gone out and won that, and continued to win this season, there's a very real proposition that we'd have seen much less spending. We need games that show our true level as a reminder that we need a lot of work still.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

So this forum is back to normal. One bad result and people are talking about a squad overhaul again.

 

[klsv]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

This is one of the worst posts I've seen here.

 

[minoo-utd]

First, is there a plan? I mean do the board have a clue what should be done in the next few months?
hiring a permanent manager and backing him completely! and even get a dof before that?

 

[RedSky]

So this forum is back to normal. One bad result and people are talking about a squad overhaul again.

Surely you can see that Sanchez and Mata were not good enough yesterday or at all this year right? It's not even a bad patch of form, it's been happening for a sustained period of time.

We don't need a high quantity of Ins as we should be giving some of our youth a chance. But what we need is top quality purchases. Then have the youth fill in the numbers. We have a pretty long list of players in the squad that simply don't contribute and are on high wages.

 

[podurban2]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

Delusional...

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Surely you can see that Sanchez and Mata were not good enough yesterday or at all this year right? It's not even a bad patch of form, it's been happening for a sustained period of time.

We don't need a high quantity of Ins as we should be giving some of our youth a chance. But what we need is top quality purchases. Then have the youth fill in the numbers. We have a pretty long list of players in the squad that simply don't contribute and are on high wages.

Sanchez and Mata were only on the pitch because of injuries. We need 3 or 4 signings it is not as drastic as people are making it out to be.

 

[Judas]

Sanchez and Mata were only on the pitch because of injuries. We need 3 or 4 signings it is not as drastic as people are making it out to be.

3 or 4 signs is a lot though still, when do we ever make 3 or 4 successful signings in one window? We need proper targets that fit what we need.

 

[Ainu]

So this forum is back to normal. One bad result and people are talking about a squad overhaul again.

People have never stopped saying this. Not an overhaul maybe, but significant investment in key areas. It's just been less of a talking point due to our good run but a match at this level makes it painfully clear again.

 

[Eriku]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

You might turn out to be right, but god damn you’re making that call far too early.

 

[RedSky]

Sanchez and Mata were only on the pitch because of injuries. We need 3 or 4 signings it is not as drastic as people are making it out to be.

But we need those players to contribute, it's not a first 11 game it's a squad game. If they can't come in and look adequate then we're in trouble.

What happens if Martial has a long term injury? We'd be struggling with an ineffective Sanchez in his place, or playing Rashford on the left and playing a stumbling Lukaku up front. We've seen enough of Mata and Sanchez to know that as players they simply don't contribute anymore.

Sanchez for example has scored 2 goals this season. For a forward that's very bad and thats where our problem lies. When we removed Martial and Lingard our goal threat was reduced to Rashford and Pogba.

 

[Zlatattack]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

No there is not. Scratch below the surface and it's inadequete. We have a talented first team, but even that is made up of two makeshift players (RB and RW). We have depth in some parts of our squad, but in other parts, that depth results in a decrease in talent.

Take our first 11. They're all very good players who work well together and fit into a system.

DDG
Young Lindelof Bailly Shaw
Herrera Matic
Lingard Pogba Martial
Rashford
​

However ;

• Young is a weak link at the very best level. He tries hard, but could easily be replaced by anyone of our oppositions RB
  
• Lingard is effective because of the system, but could easily be improved to provide the same sort of threat

Now consider the squad, the next 11.

GK - Romero; excellent choice, couldn't ask for better.
RB - Dalot, unproven youngster, potentially talented, but finding his feet. I think he's fine for his role, but he's no threat to Young or improvement on his role.
CB - Smalling is decent, Jones and Rojo weaken our team.
LB - Darmian - a clear weakening of the side.
CDM - We don't have cover, we makeshift Herrera into this role.
CM - Fred is unproven at this level, Periera and Mctomminay are not good enough. All three weaken our side.
CAM - Can Mata replace Pogba? No. Can Fred? No. Can Lingard? No. All three could play this role for us, but all of them would be a significant step down in capability. You can't have like for like with Pogba, but you can change your system to still be effective without him. We don't have that option. Were creatively hamstrung without him.
LW - Sanchez is a huge downgrade on Martial. He's delivered nothing for us in a year.
RW - Lingard is hardly setting the world alight. His contribution is looking busy and passing it to rashford or Martial. Despite that if we replace him with Mata (our only alternative), we loose all that capability too.
ST - Lukaku is a good striker, doesn't really fit our system too well, but he's the least of our worries. We do look less offensive when he plays compared to Rashford though - so again a downgrade. He also struggles to play as the big man up top, so it's not like we can change the system to suit him.

Tell me where i'm wrong, or how this situation is good enough for us to win the league/CL?

 

[hobbers]

We know what we need. RB, CB, RW are the first priorities.

Second priorities are finding a long term replacement for Matic and bringing in proper cover for Martial, because Sanchez offers nothing and won't be here long.

And then personally I'd like to see us give Greenwood the shot as Rashford's backup. I think we'd get away with that if we brought in a dynamic RW and LW to give competition to Lingard and Martial.

Squad:

De Gea, Romero, Grant

New RB, Dalot
New CB, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Bailly(sell)
Shaw, Young

New CDM, Matic
Herrera, McTominay
Pogba, Fred

New RW, Lingard, Lukaku(sell)
Rashford, Greenwood
Martial, New LW, Sanchez(sell)

With Valencia, Darmian, Rojo, Mata, Pereira all leaving in the summer

 

[Judas]

It's no point saying Sanchez and Lukaku are fine as backups because last night proved they clearly are. Di Maria is a PSG squad player. That's the difference, that's the sort of level we need to be at.

 

[Handré1990]

So this forum is back to normal. One bad result and people are talking about a squad overhaul again.

I think the most reserved posters were asking for at least three upgrades before this game? It’s not news.

 

[soapythecat]

There is enough talent in the squad. Enough quality. Enough stars. It's a decent manager needed to pull it all together and up until last night I thought OGS was the one but he shown he hasn't got the minerals for the big games.

I think there is enough talent in the first 11. Then the squad shows massive weaknesses. Last night results shows exactly where we are at squad wise.

 

[The Purley King]

Players who should leave:
Rojo
Jones (doubt he's leaving now though after new contract)
Valencia
Young (won't leave now after signing for another year)
Darmian (think he is still here somehow)
Mata
Sanchez (changed my tune on him after last night)
Lukaku

We desperately need a RW, CM (even in the event Fred doesn't turn out to be a huge flop), RB (unless Dalot really steps up soon and even then we need better competition than Young), CB, CF (Rashford can't play every game).

We need 1st XI quality with these purchases, not £20m hopefuls. Looking at £250m most likely, maybe even more, although that can be offset by ~£100m from outgoing sales even if we get rid of Sanchez for nothing.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

But we need those players to contribute, it's not a first 11 game it's a squad game. If they can't come in and look adequate then we're in trouble.

What happens if Martial has a long term injury? We'd be struggling with an ineffective Sanchez in his place, or playing Rashford on the left and playing a stumbling Lukaku up front. We've seen enough of Mata and Sanchez to know that as players they simply don't contribute anymore.

Sanchez for example has scored 2 goals this season. For a forward that's very bad and thats where our problem lies. When we removed Martial and Lingard our goal threat was reduced to Rashford and Pogba.

Bayern sold their backup striker. Barca bought Prince Boateng. Real's backup striker is Mariano Diaz and their starting CF has not been great.