100% we have good youngster and a solid team but we need more, deadwood need to leave and the likes of lingard herrera mata bailly need to be our squad players and NOT first team players
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- Thread starter Ranchero
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playmaking CM (not box to box), CB (top CB at his peak ideally, or someone a sure thing becoming one soon), RW, offensive LB (RB after next season, Dalot needs a fair chance) is a must for me next season.
4 top quality additions is the minimum if we want to have hope of challenging for any significant trophy.
8 players need to be shipped out and better replaced over the next 2 seasons. Mata, Alexis, Bailly, Darmian, Rojo, Young, Valencia, Lukaku.
Pereira and mcTominay i dont count in that list, since they are youth products and dont take up place. Pereira will be gone anyway i guess.
After that, if we nail on the next 2 years squad wise, there are no excuses
4 top quality additions is the minimum if we want to have hope of challenging for any significant trophy.
8 players need to be shipped out and better replaced over the next 2 seasons. Mata, Alexis, Bailly, Darmian, Rojo, Young, Valencia, Lukaku.
Pereira and mcTominay i dont count in that list, since they are youth products and dont take up place. Pereira will be gone anyway i guess.
After that, if we nail on the next 2 years squad wise, there are no excuses
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It's simple and hasn't changed since the summer. We need a right flank and a commanding centre back. Lindelof and Bailly are good enough footballers but they both need someone better than the other next to them. The less said about Ashley Young the better, and we need a proper right sided forward in place of Lingard.
Once that is sorted we can then look to address the lack of depth in the team.
Once that is sorted we can then look to address the lack of depth in the team.
Add Shaw and Young to that list. It will take 2-3 years until we have a CL contending squad. Right now we need to start replacing these guys.
All those clubs are having poor seasons (with perhaps the exception of Barca) so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Reals spent a lot of money recently on hot prospects which is why they went for Diaz as a short term option (he's only played 219mins in La Liga this season). Next season they'll have Vincius Junior and Rodrygo.
Best thing mourinho did was be extremely demanding about us investing properly. He kept pressure on the board to do so for years. Ole won't be strong enough to keep that up I don't think.
Investment hasn't been the problem. It's the poor signing's the club has made with said investment.
I'm not going to re-hash the area's we need improvement; it's been done to death.
Bottom line is that there is not enough quality in the squad to compete with the elite clubs. The hope is that a DOF can help make better decisions when buying players, but that takes competnent scouting as well and I'm not entirely confident in our scouts ability to identify non-mainstream talent.
I'm not going to re-hash the area's we need improvement; it's been done to death.
Bottom line is that there is not enough quality in the squad to compete with the elite clubs. The hope is that a DOF can help make better decisions when buying players, but that takes competnent scouting as well and I'm not entirely confident in our scouts ability to identify non-mainstream talent.
Think we need a minimum of 4 players in the first team. A CB, RB, a midfielder and a RW.
Also based on the potential outgoing transfers (Sanchez and Mata need to be shipped out), and also doesn't make sense to have Lukaku as a backup (for both sides), we would have to replace them as well.
Also based on the potential outgoing transfers (Sanchez and Mata need to be shipped out), and also doesn't make sense to have Lukaku as a backup (for both sides), we would have to replace them as well.
Feck me, if the board despised Mourinho that much already in the summer of 2018, why the feck did they keep him? Stupid management. Instead they got him underwhelming players and led us in the shitstorm we are in now.
If you don't believe in your inferiors you do something about it, instead they did nothing at all. Can't wait till we get a DoF, someone who knows football and can create balance between the manager and the board. Desperately needed in this mess.
Ridiculous post. You realise we’ve played arsenal and Spurs recently right? Are they not big games?
I think we need to work better tactically as a team. We have been very open when we attack and we don't press too well. A right winger, right back and one midfielder is really needed though. Ole has done well to mentally lift the squad, but I am not sure about him tactically. He seem to use the same style in most games.
There’s enough talent in this side to be a top 4 side and play attractive football. Not enough talent to win a league and nowhere near talent in the side to win CL and this is even before you get to the tactical side of things where United are still archaic and need a revolution.
If cash flow is a slight issue we need to accelerate the process of promoting youngsters from the youth sides and save money that way whilst attempting to modernise the first team squad.
If cash flow is a slight issue we need to accelerate the process of promoting youngsters from the youth sides and save money that way whilst attempting to modernise the first team squad.
Agree with the OP. The squad is good enough to get top four, but not good enough to win the PL or CL - if that’s the ambition of the owners they have to spend heavily. However, I do fear that they are not too concerned with trophies as long as they get that CL $$
How many of our players are top class? De Gea, Pogba, possibly Martial and Rashford. That’s it.
Why we aren’t challenging for the CL but can finish in the top 4 is because of a lack of quality in certain areas. It really is that simple.
Why we aren’t challenging for the CL but can finish in the top 4 is because of a lack of quality in certain areas. It really is that simple.
Can we get a downvoting tool like on Reddit please?
Disagree with all of that. There's nowhere near sufficient quality in the squad at present to compete consistently with the likes of PSG.
Ole has been here barely two months. He's beaten Arsenal and Spurs away from home. He has to work with a 'squad' built on the scattergun approach to signings adopted by LvG and Mourinho, overseen by Woodward and stocked with ageing players, white elephants on sky high wages and the likes of Jones who have somehow hung on since SAF was manager. There are two players of genuine World Class, Pogba and De Gea and there is promise/potential in Rashford and Martial. Almost everywhere else needs upgrading.
Not a single player in the current squad is a Solskjaer signing. In fact, it's nothing short of miraculous what he's achieved getting a demotivated and disenchanted group up to Fourth in the time he's been here. Losing to PSG doesn't mean he isn't the man for the job. Rather, it emphasises how significant our deterioration has been and Ole was right to say that last night was a reality check. Whether he ultimately gets the job or not, I believe anyone else whose name has been touted would have struggled to get a result with this group.
Needs white text surely
Biggest issue. We should aim to buy players used to being the main creative/attacking outlet in their teams. Does not need to be in the same position as Pogba, but should be able to fill that role.
If we had another "creator" on the pitch last night, we could have created through him, and not depend on a man marked Pogba.
Suso is the go-to guy for Milan. Plays as RW, left footed, can play CAM. £33m clause active in the summer. Not the fastest, but enough accleration to be efficient 1v1, can dribble both ways, similar ability on the ball as Mata but got more physicality in him and not a liability in defense.
Zaniolo (Next big thing coming from Italy) seems to start a lot of the attacking play for Roma the last matches he has played. Strong, mobile, technical, left footed, can cross, dribble, finish with both feet, 18 years old, can play RW, LW, CAM and CM. Combination of abilites somewhat similar to Pogba.
Good post, issue he has currently is that the squad has been made up of players through three different managerial periods who all have different styles. He will need to do a job, similar to Pep when he first went in at City, where he clears the decks, becomes ruthless in what he needs and how he sees up playing. I can see similarities to say Joe Hart who people thought Pep was crazy to bin off, and Lukaku, not about the person but about how he wasn't right for his style, 75M who cares, you are not what I want so you're out, we need that ruthlessness.
Pep spent 150m+ on full backs, identified the issue and solved it. We are very similar with ours, Valencia, Shaw, Young imo just not good enough and don't offer anything going forward and are indecisive at the back. Dalot is the only one who I think can be good enough, looked at Shaw's stats last night, one assist this season, we are let down time and again by our fullbacks attacking capabilities.
Top class DMC is needed, same at RW and obviously CB as well. Deadwood needs removing, DOF with a clear vision and working relationship with the manager whether that be Ole (my choice) or someone else.
Sell the shit, raise I don't know, maybe 100m (with Lukaku included), assuming our budget this summer will be 200/250M, should be more than enough to purchase the 4/5 top class players required.
Pep spent 150m+ on full backs, identified the issue and solved it. We are very similar with ours, Valencia, Shaw, Young imo just not good enough and don't offer anything going forward and are indecisive at the back. Dalot is the only one who I think can be good enough, looked at Shaw's stats last night, one assist this season, we are let down time and again by our fullbacks attacking capabilities.
Top class DMC is needed, same at RW and obviously CB as well. Deadwood needs removing, DOF with a clear vision and working relationship with the manager whether that be Ole (my choice) or someone else.
Sell the shit, raise I don't know, maybe 100m (with Lukaku included), assuming our budget this summer will be 200/250M, should be more than enough to purchase the 4/5 top class players required.
The concern from last night, was that United did not even look like scoring and felt a bit limp.
Ole has changed the attitude of players, but the quality of players are still the same.
Aside from De Gea & Pogba, none of the others would get into the likes of Barca,Madrid,Bayern's,etc.
The squad needs a overhaul, but i just do not see it happening anytime soon.
And until it happens the best this current team can look at is 3rd or 4th.
As for Sanchez,he is up there with Bebe in terms of what quality they offer United.
Ole has changed the attitude of players, but the quality of players are still the same.
Aside from De Gea & Pogba, none of the others would get into the likes of Barca,Madrid,Bayern's,etc.
The squad needs a overhaul, but i just do not see it happening anytime soon.
And until it happens the best this current team can look at is 3rd or 4th.
As for Sanchez,he is up there with Bebe in terms of what quality they offer United.
I think we are about £300m net spend off of being at the level to compete in the league and champions league.
We have a decent starting 11 that could do with a couple additions, but we have zero squad players at the required level.
We have a decent starting 11 that could do with a couple additions, but we have zero squad players at the required level.
The concern I have is that if you're the Glazers and you're looking for maximum return at lowest outlay possible, then what would you do? You would retain players on slightly-improved new contracts in order to avoid paying high wages for new players (ie Jones, Young, Smalling, McTominay etc) and then find someone who will tow the company line to manage them without demanding a huge amount of investment. Ole is probably the man to do that, because he's excited about being the manager.
Would they be happy with Top 4 every season but not competing with Barca, PSG, Real, City etc? Well yes, because that keeps the money coming in, but it doesn't require huge spending, as we've seen with Arsenal and Spurs over the last decade or so.
It's clear to anyone who watched the game last night that we are light years behind the best in Europe in terms of squad and cohesive playing style - yet repeatedly we are reminded of our enormous revenue and standing as one of the major 3 clubs in the world. This is where Woodward's ludicrous quote about what happens on the pitch having no bearing on our commercial revenue starts to resonate. They will do the minimum to keep us in the top 4 while keeping revenue high and spending low. No more than that. It makes business sense, but it doesn't win Champions Leagues or Premier Leagues. People will point to the 300m outlay since Ferguson, but that was after years of chronic under-investment, and 200 million of that was on three players (Pogba, Lukaku, Fred) only one of those is now in our first team.
We need to clear out seven average players and make five top-class signings. But I see no evidence of that happening or even being likely to happen this summer. For some reason our personnel turnover is behind literally every other top class club in the world. I've repeated this point endlessly, but we can still field an almost first-choice goalkeeper and back four from our first-team squad that played under Ferguson eight years ago in 2011. De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Young.
As a reference point, that would be Man City putting out Joe Hart, Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott, Kolo Toure and Wayne Bridge. Now.
We've got some great players who can be the basis of a fantastic team. Martial, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea. Lindelof has potential. Lingard is a talented squad player. But we have to face up to the fact that some of our major signings have been disastrous (Sanchez, Fred, Darmian) some players are well past their best (Mata, Valencia, Young) and some aren't good enough (Lukaku, Jones) - and that's a worrying combination that needs change.
I was spoiled to grow up watching us between 1990 and 2012 I admit, but that constant success should be the foundation and the rule now, not something to look back on as a limited run of glory years. I don't want us to become a well-run business with the occasional FA cup final to get excited about. We have to invest on a major scale.
Would they be happy with Top 4 every season but not competing with Barca, PSG, Real, City etc? Well yes, because that keeps the money coming in, but it doesn't require huge spending, as we've seen with Arsenal and Spurs over the last decade or so.
It's clear to anyone who watched the game last night that we are light years behind the best in Europe in terms of squad and cohesive playing style - yet repeatedly we are reminded of our enormous revenue and standing as one of the major 3 clubs in the world. This is where Woodward's ludicrous quote about what happens on the pitch having no bearing on our commercial revenue starts to resonate. They will do the minimum to keep us in the top 4 while keeping revenue high and spending low. No more than that. It makes business sense, but it doesn't win Champions Leagues or Premier Leagues. People will point to the 300m outlay since Ferguson, but that was after years of chronic under-investment, and 200 million of that was on three players (Pogba, Lukaku, Fred) only one of those is now in our first team.
We need to clear out seven average players and make five top-class signings. But I see no evidence of that happening or even being likely to happen this summer. For some reason our personnel turnover is behind literally every other top class club in the world. I've repeated this point endlessly, but we can still field an almost first-choice goalkeeper and back four from our first-team squad that played under Ferguson eight years ago in 2011. De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Young.
As a reference point, that would be Man City putting out Joe Hart, Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott, Kolo Toure and Wayne Bridge. Now.
We've got some great players who can be the basis of a fantastic team. Martial, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea. Lindelof has potential. Lingard is a talented squad player. But we have to face up to the fact that some of our major signings have been disastrous (Sanchez, Fred, Darmian) some players are well past their best (Mata, Valencia, Young) and some aren't good enough (Lukaku, Jones) - and that's a worrying combination that needs change.
I was spoiled to grow up watching us between 1990 and 2012 I admit, but that constant success should be the foundation and the rule now, not something to look back on as a limited run of glory years. I don't want us to become a well-run business with the occasional FA cup final to get excited about. We have to invest on a major scale.
I agree on everything here. The next year or two will show us which direction we will go.
Exactly this.
Just look at our other players:
Defence:
Shaw - Average. Pretty poor defensively and now doesn't attack since his injury. The fact a Lucas Digne at Everton for example looks much better is scary.
Bailly - Good squad player but won't become the top player we once thought. Lacks concentration and is too rash.
Young - Was once a good squad member, but now should be playing for Watford, Not a top European team.
Jones \ Smalling - Laughable how many chances these 2 jokers get.
Rojo - Is he alive?
Dalot - I like what I have seen of him so far. Should be starting ahead of Young now.
Valencia - Awful.
Midfield:
Matic - Decent player who has came back to life since Ole came in. Not getting any younger though.
Herrera - Good one game and shocking / non-existent the next. Rinse and repeat the Herrera cycle.
Fred - Who knows if he is good enough as he never gets a game. Looks like £50m wasted right now.
McTominay - Nowhere near good enough. The fact he doesn't even stand out in the under 23 games he plays speaks volumes.
Periera - Gone in Summer. Not good enough.
Attack:
Lingard - Plays his role well and is a good squad player, but doesn't influence games enough to be a constant starter.
Sanchez - Gone full Torres. Was once a great player, but now his legs have gone.
Lukaku - Not the calibre of striker to play the style of football we are looking for. If he is happy to be a 3rd choice back up option i'd keep him.
No. A bad result that provides a reality check. It depends what you mean by a squad overhaul. We do need an overhaul, while remembering that we have Mason Greenwood up our sleeves.
I'd be surprised if transfers will be made before the DoF comes. Sadly there's no smoke their either.
There are many many worse
We need an overhaul in the context of having gaping holes all over the park.
Matic needs to be replaced in the short to medium term, a quality central midfielder is needed on top to add steel. We obviously need a CB, our right backs are either not ready to be full time starters or OAPs. We have no established right winger on top.
I thought the general consensus was that despite JM saying our squad was sh*t, it was not that sh*t but still not near CL/PL title good. We would still need to make major changes to compete with the best regardless of the result against PSG or other teams for the rest of the season.
We need a rb cb cm and a rw, we are miles off from challenging for the league.
I agree. We need to do what Liverpool did this season and find a couple of players who will complete the jigsaw. This club should be able to buy 3 world class players each summer if necessary but our owners have and will always be the problem. If we had a world class leader of a CB that would organise the defence. We need a RW to change our attack from being so one dimensional, every attack comes from the left wing with the occasional cross from a RB, there is still no balance with our forward play.
By the time all that will be sorted out De Gea would have left and our budget will be spent finding a replacement.
Tactically we are naive and has been too under Ferguson. Yesterday we were too but that said our quality has been piss poor compared to PSG.
Pogba, DeGea and maybe Martial will get into that PSG side. No one else.
Pogba, DeGea and maybe Martial will get into that PSG side. No one else.
I agree. But my worry is that the board think this squad is good enough. To be totally brutal (for which I apologise in advance) if we think McTominay is good enough to deserve another two years, then there is something awry. I have seen nothing (and maybe someone can provide clips that show otherwise) to make me think that he is good enough to be in the squad. A good player, perhaps in the Championship, but that is it. Signing him up against the background of not spending in the January window after a disastrous summer, does make me worry that the board do not have the ambition that perhaps we fans believe we should have.
It is all very well Ole saying we should be challenging for the title, but he cannot think we can with the current squad. The players who you would want to keep no matter what right now to mount any kind of challenge for the Prem are De Gea, Rash, Martial, Lingard and Pogba. Herrera and Matic together has always worried me when facing quality and last night they were exposed. Herrera is good enough to be in the squad but Matic is slowing up and I don't think will give you another season if we require high energy pressing and we do. Lindelof, Young, Mata (yes still) and Shaw also deserve to be in the squad. Jones (just) and the underrated Darmian.
The way we play precludes Lukaku. He is too cumbersome for the way we play. I have always said Sanchez needs more time, but that's a repeated mantra that is more wishful thinking... my brain says his legs have gone and perhaps we should get him off the wage bill to China. That leaves question marks over Bailly, Smalling, Fred, Rojo and Valencia, Pereira and McTominay.
Have a word ffs.
I agree with all that... but you can only promote youngsters if they are good enough. Mason Greenwood looks a special player. But of the rest I have not seen enough consistency yet. McTominay, for instance, for me, who has been promoted isn't good enough to be in our squad. I fear that is promotion for promotion's sake. He comes over as an eager-to-learn malleable player, but far too robotic for a top team right now. What I would hope is that we don't end up like Chelsea when there are potential stars like Hudson N'Doi being held back.
I would not argue profusely with this analysis. Fact is we desperately need to reinforce in central midfield in particular. We have got away with it in defence in the Prem against sides sitting back against us.
There is no question we need investment particularly in central midfield and defence. Looking at the central mid options, who do we pick when Pogba is out. Probably only Mata can play that role.
The Herrera - Matic axis, however, needs an upgrade to compete at the top.
Absolutely. The idea the OP was rightly keen to debunk from the outset, that any criticism of the squad = tacit backing for Jose, needs to die. Jose was shameless in the way he hung good players out to dry but he wasn't wrong about our squad not being good enough to challenge at the very top. It very obviously isn't, but nor were the tactics under Jose, something Ole is at least looking to remedy.
Maybe, but is Ole in a position to make demands of the board? I'm not saying he is/would be a yes man but I doubt he's been hired in the interim to have breaking the directors' balls as part of his role.
That has to be the most knee jerk reaction I think I've ever seen. So you're picking a game against one of the best teams in Europe, in which our manager was forced to make 2 subs at half time because of injury, as proof that he "hasn't got the mineral for the big games"??? Wow
Rubbish. The squad is weak. Lack of investment has taken its toll.
Three world class players in a summer? My god, from what we have seen Fergie went that is a very big genie wish. We do need an upgrade, for sure, particularly in midfield. Not sure that all our attacks go down the left at all. There was one game recently, can't remember which, think it was the Brighton home game, where I could not believe how right-sided we were and much was going to Young.