I was all for giving him more time until he revealed he was too scared to drop/sub underperforming out of form players like Rooney and rvp. That meant he had to go for me.
Is anybody backtracking?
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And why is it only the players professionalism that's being questioned? What about the professionalism of a manager that belittles his squad in public, accuses his players of being mentally fragile, attacks his predecessors methods, invents rules to punish players (Cleverley, Young and Welbeck after that night out) whilst not raising an eyebrow about others turning up to training the worse for wear, obviously favours some players above others and changes the tactics with 30 minutes to a derby. I could go on but it doesn't seem to me that these (and there are others) smack of a particularly professional manner in which to operate.
This was also starting to become a major concern of mine as well.
I agree with this. Indeed I'm astonished at the way Moyes went about doing the job. I genuinely thought he would adopt the Ferguson approach of delegating responsibility to the same staff (Phelan, Rene etc) with perhaps one or two additions to the squad if the right person became available. If I was appointed in similar circumstances, I'd be concerned that I didn't actually have a winning formula at this level.
Yep. Dave and his supporters haven't got much fuel for the 'he was hard done-by' fire. They have to make the most of this one damp little faggot.
No! I'm delighted hes gone, really lifted me.
The only 'backtracking' I'd do is wanting him out earlier. I should have gone with my gut instinct initially and decided he wasn't good enough from the very beginning instead of clinging on to false hope by giving him a chance.
The only 'backtracking' I'd do is wanting him out earlier. I should have gone with my gut instinct initially and decided he wasn't good enough from the very beginning instead of clinging on to false hope by giving him a chance.
I just hope the overrated, overpaid and simply not good enough members of the squad follow him swiftly out the door never to return. The players have been an absolute disgrace and some of them deserve to never play for the club again after this season.
If you re-read the stories, it is clear that they were briefed but also that United weren't totally sure when Moyes was going to be fired. Suppose a group of journalists wonder among themselves whether Moyes is likely to be fired after the Liv match, the City match etc. They ask their contacts, nothing happening, then they do the same after the Everton match, this time the response is different though little clarity. Some suggestions Giggs has been told he is taking over soon. They ask Woodward for clarification. He is put in a difficult position because the board are still debating the merits of firing Moyes now or waiting for the end of the season. Woodward's briefing to the media isn't that intelligently worded.
If some of these stories are true then you are right the players or at least some of them acted unprofessionally.
And since we are slinging shit at our players now it seems for some reason, how about Moyes did he act professionally in all this?
Because if we are believing stories about the players and using them as a stick to beat them with, some of the rumours don't exactly paint Moyes in the best light either.
Picking sides in all this is pointless though, laying into the players isn't going to achieve anything at this stage. They wouldn't be the first bunch of young men to act classless and they certainly won't be the last.
Now I know which one I'll leave to help watch my kids when I'm out of town, and which one I'll leave to help take care of the club I support when the long time manager leaves. Point is, I was referring to footballing matters exclusively.
I for one expected Moyes to come in with an approach of trying to learn what made us tick as a club. To try and discover what step up he needed to make from his approach with Everton, which surely wouldn't work here. The onus was on him to learn adapt as much as our squad. Instead, it looks like he came in and basically wanted to blow the whole thing up.
Completely agree. Who's in a better position to judge a new manager than experienced players? Rather than criticizing them, we owe them a debt.
True hes been using his mates in the media to push his agenda about our squad needing a rebuild all season.
Listened to a radio show with Pat Nevin yesterday (friend of Moyes) and he kept banging on about the rebuild that moyes will never get the chance to complete. He even said SAF agreed with Moyes that the squad needs completely rebuilt, i somehow doubt Ferguson thinks that if i am honest. Even now when hes out of a job the bullshit continues.
Gary Nev said earlier this season that Moyes has to let United shape him, rather than him trying shape Man United.
Pretty much that. Went against my better judgement in the hope I hadn't seen something about him. In reality, as soon as he canned the coaching setup I should've realised it was never going to happen.
Are you saying a team just looks on and knowingly let the captain take his ship down?
Nev comes out with some fantastic quotes.
Is there any evidence the players deliberately underperformed whilst on the pitch?
I doubt its as simple as that. If you don't like the training and aren't happy day to day, then when you go out your 'best' isn't really your best. You may try your hardest in the moment, but you need to be in peak physical and mental condition to play well.
Million-dollar question that no one seems to have asked.
It's a fine line between deliberate underperformance and the manager being so abysmally bad that the resulting demotivation becomes too entwined with the underperformance that it virtually becomes a moot point.
Agreed with the nicely written points, jojojo. Might as well copy and paste this on every thread that still 'supporting' that failure Moyes.
Exactly! Players are influenced by the type of leadership and the coaching staff. Mismanagement and inappropriate leadership impacts negatively on team morale, and player confidence, greatly reducing chances of success. It's a big call to say the team underperformed for Moyes. I personally think Moyes is deflecting blame for his failures, if that is the claim being made.
Moyes had plenty of friends amongst the press pack during his time as manager, so i have to wonder why these normally unscrupulous journalists held back such allegedly damning information. Whilst i am not surprised at these reports of rebellion there is also clearly a propaganda war in progress, truth isn't likely to be the victor here. Given better leadership i think we can avoid the necessity of a purge.
Obviously petty acts of insubordination cannot go ignored, however in light of them being so widespread involving most unlikely suspects, the root cause would have been a greater worry i think. If we believe what is said of the Moyes' regime as well as the players, there could have been no guarantee of a similar disaffection taking hold in new signings.
Speaking of backtracking i wonder when it was that Sir Alex first started to doubt his choice, what it single act of Moyes set an alarm bell ringing. I can imagine some cursing at the "ungrateful little upstart" pretty early on. lol
Obviously petty acts of insubordination cannot go ignored, however in light of them being so widespread involving most unlikely suspects, the root cause would have been a greater worry i think. If we believe what is said of the Moyes' regime as well as the players, there could have been no guarantee of a similar disaffection taking hold in new signings.
Speaking of backtracking i wonder when it was that Sir Alex first started to doubt his choice, what it single act of Moyes set an alarm bell ringing. I can imagine some cursing at the "ungrateful little upstart" pretty early on. lol
If Fergie didn't have control or the respect of his players, he'd have seen it as a personal failure rather than the squad being mean old potato heads.
How can he not count? Lol. He signed last January, therefore, he was officially our player.Zaha doesn't really count in my book he was signed for the season after, but we can agree to disagree. But Zaha would make 6 who was the other one?
The other player was Sean Goss. I provided you with a link where it tells you the signings we made in my previous post.
Well like I said in one of my previous posts then, Fellaini must have been a transfer target then, but Moyes must have wanted a ball player to go next to him - someone who we didn't get.
What about the Herrera bid? That can't be blamed on Moyes. Also, I'm sure we made a bid for Fabregas a good while before Thiago went to Bayern.
Can't it? He dithered on Fabregas deal all Summer long, realised he couldn't get him at the last minute and decided to switch to Herrera when it was too late. He might be as much to blame as Woodward or even more.
As a united fan for the last 27 years, you know when something is wrong.
I started noticing the body language was all wrong on the pitch during the 2nd half of the Newcastle defeat at OT. We were chasing the game late on but nobody wanted the ball, they were happy to hide behind their marker.
Well my comment was tongue in cheek, but you could say he shouldn't count since he didn't join until July. But anyway its all semantics really no point getting into a debate about it.
Cheers missed the link, haven't really heard much about goss to be honest.
Well said. People always come out with the usual stuff that when you earn as much as they do, you shouldn't need any motivation. It doesn't work that way. Your working climate will affect your motivation level. It's inevitable. If you feel completely uninspired by your boss and what he makes you do, you won't be able to deliver your best, no matter how much money you earn.
I am pretty sure we went after Fabregas almost immediately Thiago had moved. Made no sense then, makes no sense now. The Herrera deal fiasco has to be shared between Moyes and Woodward. Both came out of it looking like idiots.
My point is, the transfer window was horrible with Moyes equally responsible for such a shamble. But despite that, the season went on to be much worse and that is almost solely on Moyes.
Herrera was certainly a Moyes mistake as firstly he left it so so late to go for him (likewise Khedira, Coentrao) and secondly he didn't value him at his buyout clause, which is the only price at which we were ever going to get him. His reluctance to pay what needed to be paid was stupid. He was well backed financially, there is no way he can complain about that.
Yeah I recall that our first public declaration regarding Fabregas came immediately after Thiago was set to move to Bayern.
Exactly, and I was gobsmacked at the timing of all that drama. What made the club think we could get two midfielders out of Barca at the same time is beyond me.
Yup. It's the first time we've fired a manager in 27 and we haven't done it perfectly. Whoopty fecking do.
Is there actually any official source for the idea that Moyes wasn't told until well after the press? I keep hearing this, but never from anywhere credible, and it seems so unfeasible. Do we know it for sure or are we just giving Moyes the benefit of the doubt because it's a juicier story?
Just because they didn't officially announce it on Easter Monday when he wasn't in work, doesn't mean he wasn't told. Especially if he actually had this so called clause in his contract. The idea he'd be at home phoning the club, Woodward, Fergie et al while they all hid under their desks blanking him is surely completely daft?
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Fck no
Agreed. The players should have stood by and done nothing as Moyes and his incompetent Everton staff valiantly tried to tear down everything Ferguson achieved for this football club. Desperately disappointed the players lacked the dignity to stand by Moyes' visionary work.
Indeed - ringleaders like that no mark Ryan Giggs should be ashamed of themselves. The likes of him, Rio and, off the field, Scholes obviously have no real understanding of what United is all about and should have kept quiet while Moyes and his multi-trophy winning coaching team set about making it hard for mid-table teams at Old Trafford.
The funniest thing is the stories of what he was doing when he supposedly heard these rumours. According to one account, he'd just wrapped up the signing of Luke Shaw after a hard day's work on it. According to another, he'd been putting the beginning of a powerpoint presentation together for the Glazers at the end of the season (
). I can just imagine him having trouble deciding between two sound effects for his intro slide before going on BBC live text and seeing the rumours.He's known this was likely for weeks, complaining about its manner is just bitterness.
But if Woodward activated Herrera's buy out clause, instead of going with like 5-6M leass, surely we would have got him.
If we activated his buy out clause we would have got him, though. As it is, we didn't, and failed to get anyone but Fellaini. That said, like @NK86 said, Moyes should have done a lot better with the current squad. However, I feel he would've been a lot better prepared this Summer, as opposed to last.