Is David Moyes career finished in top level football?

snowkarl

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Moyes is a breed of manager that is outdated in the Premier league today.

Chris Houghton was doing a great job at Brighton but they still sacked him, as even the smaller clubs in the Premier league are hoping to find a new innovative Eddie Howe type manager, who plays nice football and turns exciting potential into stars.

Football evolves quickly and if you don't adapt like Fergie always did then you get left behind like Mourinho, Big Sam, Moyes, Wenger, Van Gaal etc have been
Houghton was shocking last year for Brighton and was deservedly sacked... Not only did they play extremely poor football and almost went down but he lost the players' confidence and didn't manage to integrate any of his big signings like Alireza, Andone, Locadia etc.

They are twice as good now thanks to Potter. Houghton is a nice bloke I'm sure but that's leadto him becoming crazy overrated, he is way worse than memed, laughed at managers like Allardyce and Pardew even, and PL clubs aren't exactly rushing to sign him are they?

Motes is a good manager still I believe but I agree with your sentiment, I think PL clubs all want to be the next Leicester or emulate Pochettino Everton/Michu Swansea etc with a young foreign manager with flair players. It will end badly for many of them though.
 

manutddjw

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He’s a dinosaur that failed to adapt to the game and worse off he developed an arrogance that is totally undeserved. To put it into context, Harry Redknapp also qualified for the champions league, making it to the quarter finals not failing to reach the group stage like Moyes. He also won an FA Cup with Portsmouth.
 

Jeppers7

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I'm beginning to think Moyes is living rent-free in a few minds here.

The qualifying rounds are Champions League matches however way you want to cut it. He got there with Everton, which was quite an achievement. It's that simple.
Wonderful
 

Cloud7

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I just don't understand why these clubs rotate amongst people who have failed 2 or more times at other clubs.

Why not go for some up and coming lower league manager who has known only success?
I've asked this question time and time again. Why do these clubs persist with the same conveyor belt of these managers when they all know how it's going to end, when surely there must be some promising managers in the lower leagues? Take Eddie Howe for example, surely there must be more like him down there?
 

Chesterlestreet

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Why do these clubs persist with the same conveyor belt of these managers...
Well, they don't to the same extent. Hiring from abroad has become much more common, as has actively seeking out younger and presumably more progressive managers. So, the market for traditional merry-go-round types has grown tougher.

But the obvious reason for going for someone like Big Sam or Woy is that they're proven at steadying ships and avoiding the drop. The difference between relegation and an utterly unglamorous 15th place finish is - what - £100m? That's a hell of a lot of money to most owners.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Still, things change and it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that the good old merry-go-rounder is a dying breed. But it won't happen overnight. Woy is sitting nicely around the middle of the table as we speak. Bruce, another classic type, may very well avoid the drop too. Whereas as new school manager like Farke could easily end up relegated - if he isn't sacked before that happens, and quite possibly replaced by a dinosaurish successor of some description.
 

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I've asked this question time and time again. Why do these clubs persist with the same conveyor belt of these managers when they all know how it's going to end, when surely there must be some promising managers in the lower leagues? Take Eddie Howe for example, surely there must be more like him down there?

I think the same goes for players too
 

Sandikan

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I've asked this question time and time again. Why do these clubs persist with the same conveyor belt of these managers when they all know how it's going to end, when surely there must be some promising managers in the lower leagues? Take Eddie Howe for example, surely there must be more like him down there?
My lot have Ainsworth, joint top on points in league 1, as a tiny club.
A lot of championship clubs have been circling, but even they tend to go with "names", as those seem to satisfy fans more than up and coming guys.

In fairness though, a lot of Premier league clubs are real hidings to nothing.

Anyone under the top 10 or so can have a poor year and end up in the relegation zone
 

romufc

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Manchester United is a bad omen for managers.

SAF retired
Moyes - never been the same, cannot get a job
LVG - Retired
Jose - Struggling to get a job, normally would be first choice for likes of Juve and Bayerm
Ole - Doubt he will get another top level job.
 

Wade3

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To be fair, you have to admit he was not backed be the Board. Two more Players in the summer and things would have looked better. But that has been a continuous mistake by the United board. And when they have opened the purse they Went for the wrong players: Mata, Sanchez, Martial, Pogba, Maguire...
Yeah, Martial, Pogba and Maguire were not the wrong players. It’s quite an odd and probably misinformed post by you.
 

Perseus

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Houghton was shocking last year for Brighton and was deservedly sacked... Not only did they play extremely poor football and almost went down but he lost the players' confidence and didn't manage to integrate any of his big signings like Alireza, Andone, Locadia etc.

They are twice as good now thanks to Potter. Houghton is a nice bloke I'm sure but that's leadto him becoming crazy overrated, he is way worse than memed, laughed at managers like Allardyce and Pardew even, and PL clubs aren't exactly rushing to sign him are they?

Motes is a good manager still I believe but I agree with your sentiment, I think PL clubs all want to be the next Leicester or emulate Pochettino Everton/Michu Swansea etc with a young foreign manager with flair players. It will end badly for many of them though.
The second half of last season was a downward blip for CH. After 11 games in the first season, the records of CH and Potterball are identical.

CH is not my cuppa tea, but he tends to grow on people. There something reassuring about the CH defensive style when the full backs do not go AWOL.

CH did not really suit the BHA style. Not sacked because of the clamour from fans, but more than like Potterball was identified as the way to go.

Recruitment has changed as well. Alireza, Andone, Locadia still haven't integrated. Maybe they were not good enough?

The United players that gave BHA most problems were Ashley Young and Pogba.
 
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snowkarl

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The second half of last season was a downward blip for CH. After 11 games in the first season, the records of CH and Potterball are identical.

CH is not my cuppa tea, but he tends to grow on people. There something reassuring about the CH defensive style when the full backs do not go AWOL.

CH did not really suit the BHA style. Not sacked because of the clamour from fans, but more than like Potterball was identified as the way to go.

Recruitment has changed as well. Alireza, Andone, Locadia still haven't integrated. Maybe they were not good enough?

The United players that gave BHA most problems were Ashley Young and Pogba.
No I'm sorry but he totally failed last year, lost the dressing room and almost got relegated. His defensive brand of football was terrible to watch and they would probably have been relegated with him this year.

As I said, he is a nice guy which makes people overrated him
 

roonster09

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Talking of crosses when was the last time United scored from a cross/header move in open play. I can't remember, probably not since Ibra.
Pogba vs Bournemouth.
 

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Just ruled himself out of the Hearts/Hibs jobs so it's clear he's holding out for another PL post. Based on his West Ham stint, he'll probably get another short-term gig at some point. I don't see it as a sustainable career choice given the short-term expectations of relegation fire-fighting and the consensus view that he cannot play the progressive and attractive modern football that most PL clubs aspire to.
 

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Just ruled himself out of the Hearts/Hibs jobs so it's clear he's holding out for another PL post. Based on his West Ham stint, he'll probably get another short-term gig at some point. I don't see it as a sustainable career choice given the short-term expectations of relegation fire-fighting and the consensus view that he cannot play the progressive and attractive modern football that most PL clubs aspire to.
Footie manager: one of the few jobs where you can probably land a decent job--only to be given a shot at another decent to good job just because the first one hired you and hey - maybe the club just wasn't right for you - lost that job but be set for life - get paid a bit here and there for your opinion or even a more permanent gig and coast through til retirement.
 

RedPed

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A lot of the old guard like Moyes are gradually going out of circulation...because they think they're too big/good for Championship and lower teams.

Imagine bringing a team like Leeds United back into the Prem again and getting them established. That should be a big enough challenge for most managers if they actually believe their own hype.
 

Denis' cuff

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Nobody wants him but he’ll still walk away a multi-millionaire.

Nice work if you can get it.
 

BusterGonads

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Benitez accepted the challenge and managed in the Championship but the wee man is too good for it? Different class
 

stevoc

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I'm beginning to think Moyes is living rent-free in a few minds here.

The qualifying rounds are Champions League matches however way you want to cut it. He got there with Everton, which was quite an achievement. It's that simple.
:lol:

However you want to cut it mate they are Champions League qualifiers yes. Be honest unless you are claiming the goals scored in them count towards CL goal records (they don't and we both know why) and that the equivalent World Cup play off qualifiers are actually World Cup tournament matches (they aren't) then you have to logically concede that Moyes never actually qualified for the Champions League proper. To do anything else is just being stubborn.

Yes it was a great achievement for Everton to come 4th and get into the CL qualifiers, would have been better had they reached the actual tournament. Though to be fair to them Collina pretty much fecked them over from what i can remember.
 

Josep Dowling

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Houghton was shocking last year for Brighton and was deservedly sacked... Not only did they play extremely poor football and almost went down but he lost the players' confidence and didn't manage to integrate any of his big signings like Alireza, Andone, Locadia etc.

They are twice as good now thanks to Potter. Houghton is a nice bloke I'm sure but that's leadto him becoming crazy overrated, he is way worse than memed, laughed at managers like Allardyce and Pardew even, and PL clubs aren't exactly rushing to sign him are they?

Motes is a good manager still I believe but I agree with your sentiment, I think PL clubs all want to be the next Leicester or emulate Pochettino Everton/Michu Swansea etc with a young foreign manager with flair players. It will end badly for many of them though.
I think you’re being a bit harsh on Hughton. Hasn’t he got Newcastle, Norwich and Brighton promoted to the Premier League and maintained Premier League status for all those sides before being sacked.

Maybe Brighton are playing more attractive football but they still aren’t getting results.
 

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A lot of the old guard like Moyes are gradually going out of circulation...because they think they're too big/good for Championship and lower teams.

Imagine bringing a team like Leeds United back into the Prem again and getting them established. That should be a big enough challenge for most managers if they actually believe their own hype.
Think he’s missing the point as well. He needs to reinvent his image and style of play if he ever wants anything more than a short-term relegation battle. The best way to do that is play more progressive football at a lower level where he can build momentum and potentially progress to PL on the front foot, rather than the back foot that characterises most of his recent work.
 

stevoc

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Think he’s missing the point as well. He needs to reinvent his image and style of play if he ever wants anything more than a short-term relegation battle. The best way to do that is play more progressive football at a lower level where he can build momentum and potentially progress to PL on the front foot, rather than the back foot that characterises most of his recent work.
It's possible that at this stage Moyes doesn't really care about his career and is only interested in a few more pay days. He was very ambitious at one point no doubt but he got his big break in 2013 and fecked it up. He knows he's never getting a sniff at a top job again.

He's reportedly turned his nose up at SPL jobs and he's said himself he doesn't want a championship job. I doubt teams in either of those leagues could pay him what Premier League teams could. So it's possible that for Dave it's now all about the money. Which is fair enough is someone if willing to pay him.
 

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Footie manager: one of the few jobs where you can probably land a decent job--only to be given a shot at another decent to good job just because the first one hired you and hey - maybe the club just wasn't right for you - lost that job but be set for life - get paid a bit here and there for your opinion or even a more permanent gig and coast through til retirement.
Most sensible clubs have realised you just need the right manager at the right time. You don't need one for 10-15 years or more, or even 5 years.

You get one who will do the job for the next season or two, and then re-evaluate your needs. The likes of Moyes and Big Sam, can save you from relegation and keep you up. Once that's done, their purpose is served and you get someone else in who maybe has a shot at pushing you up with a better brand of football.

Even the big clubs do this. They hire the managers their needs at the given time.
 

cjj

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:lol:

However you want to cut it mate they are Champions League qualifiers yes. Be honest unless you are claiming the goals scored in them count towards CL goal records (they don't and we both know why) and that the equivalent World Cup play off qualifiers are actually World Cup tournament matches (they aren't) then you have to logically concede that Moyes never actually qualified for the Champions League proper. To do anything else is just being stubborn.

Yes it was a great achievement for Everton to come 4th and get into the CL qualifiers, would have been better had they reached the actual tournament. Though to be fair to them Collina pretty much fecked them over from what i can remember.
They are group stage qualifiers - not qualifiers for the "Champions League" (the whole competition is constructed very strangely).

The point was no more than that Moyes has managed a team in Champions League games, nothing more.
 

stevoc

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They are group stage qualifiers - not qualifiers for the "Champions League" (the whole competition is constructed very strangely).

The point was no more than that Moyes has managed a team in Champions League games, nothing more.
:lol: stubborn it is then.

Well he hasn't, look i don't understand what you're having a problem with here mate. It's right there in the name Champions League qualifiers, as in to qualify for the Champions League. They're not called Champions League group stage qualifiers. Uefa doesn't consider them a part of the tournament proper which is why the goals scored in them don't carry over for players stats.

It's that simple.
 

cjj

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:lol: stubborn it is then.

Well he hasn't, look i don't understand what you're having a problem with here mate. It's right there in the name Champions League qualifiers, as in to qualify for the Champions League. They're not called Champions League group stage qualifiers. Uefa doesn't consider them a part of the tournament proper which is why the goals scored in them don't carry over for players stats.

It's that simple.
Equally, denial it is.

The Champions League itself lists them as Champions League games. It's not the Intertoto.

I find it strange and fascinating that some of you are so odd about Moyes that you're clutching at straws when trying to discredit something he did a decade before her joined United...
 

Abizzz

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How was getting 4th with a semi decent Everton such an achievement though? They finished 3 points ahead of Bolton and 6 ahead of Middlesbrough.
 

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Most sensible clubs have realised you just need the right manager at the right time. You don't need one for 10-15 years or more, or even 5 years.

You get one who will do the job for the next season or two, and then re-evaluate your needs. The likes of Moyes and Big Sam, can save you from relegation and keep you up. Once that's done, their purpose is served and you get someone else in who maybe has a shot at pushing you up with a better brand of football.

Even the big clubs do this. They hire the managers their needs at the given time.
Exactly this. Which is why i pull my hair out when i see comments like "why did team x sack their manager who achieved (fill blank here) two years ago".

An over romantic sentiment at best and a completely simplistic statement at worst.
 

stevoc

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Equally, denial it is.

The Champions League itself lists them as Champions League games. It's not the Intertoto.
Its not a matter of opinion but fact mate so i can't be in denial.

The Champions League?

Think you mean Uefa , you're getting all sorts wrong here. Uefa lists them as Champions League qualifiers nothing more. If the games were part of the Champions League tournament then the goals scored in them would carry over, they don't.

I find it strange and fascinating that some of you are so odd about Moyes that you're clutching at straws when trying to discredit something he did a decade before her joined United...
:lol:

I have more than enough ammunition to discredit Moyes if i wanted to. I was simply stating a fact, you tried to act a smart arse got proved wrong but instead of holding your hands up and admitting it you are digging your heels in and doubling down. You'll fit in well on this forum if you ever get promoted mate, good luck.
 

stevoc

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How was getting 4th with a semi decent Everton such an achievement though? They finished 3 points ahead of Bolton and 6 ahead of Middlesbrough.
I'm no Moyes fan but to be fair it was an achievement though. Maybe not an amazing one but considering how set the top 4 was back then they did well to come 4th.

Though the argument could be made that they only came 4th that year because Liverpool took their foot off the gas in the league to concentrate on the CL.
 
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Sassy Colin

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It's possible that at this stage Moyes doesn't really care about his career and is only interested in a few more pay days. He was very ambitious at one point no doubt but he got his big break in 2013 and fecked it up. He knows he's never getting a sniff at a top job again.

He's reportedly turned his nose up at SPL jobs and he's said himself he doesn't want a championship job. I doubt teams in either of those leagues could pay him what Premier League teams could. So it's possible that for Dave it's now all about the money. Which is fair enough is someone if willing to pay him.
11 years at Everton contradicts that, he was comfortable, earning fortunes and clearly had no further ambition.
 

acnumber9

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How was getting 4th with a semi decent Everton such an achievement though? They finished 3 points ahead of Bolton and 6 ahead of Middlesbrough.
They weren’t exactly a semi decent side before that. They hadn’t finished higher than 13th since 1996. For all Moyes faults, of which there are many, Everton were much worse before he was their manager. And barring one season they’ve been worse since too.
 

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11 years at Everton contradicts that, he was comfortable, earning fortunes and clearly had no further ambition.
I dunno. The endless bleating from all his old school buddies on the Sunday Supplement about how he should be considered for the next big job and felt he wasn't being given the opportunities suggested to me that he felt he should be the next cab off the rank and would have been willing to move. It's just that no one other than us saw that in him.