Dante
Average bang
No, not even close.
Van Der Sar rarely made any mistakes at United, I'm not too bothered what he did anywhere else.That just isn't true. Van Der Sar made more than his fair share of mistakes both at United and before that too. They just tend to get punished and remembered less when you play in an excellent team that's capable of winning regardless.
He had his share of mistakes and bad performances at United too. He was at fault or should have done better for goals in each of our three CL finals, for a start.Van Der Sar rarely made any mistakes at United, I'm not too bothered what he did anywhere else.
We got him when he was at his most experienced, he was the perfect goalkeeper in my opinion.
Ok then, rarely made mistakes, how's that then?He had his share of mistakes and bad performances at United too. He was at fault or should have done better for goals in each of our three CL finals, for a start.
I mean obviously he was generally excellent. But the idea that he never made mistakes just isn't true.
Much harder for me to be pedantic about that.Ok then, rarely made mistakes, how's that then?
Agreed on both points. Has nothing to do with how De Gea has played before this season & the lastVDS was part of the reason we had one of the best defenses ever, he knew how to lead from the back and inspired confidence which was contagious. DDG doesn’t transmit confidence to his defense because he is too error prone.
surely you cant think these 2 are on the same level as De Gea, De Gea was our best player for about 5 years, yes it dont say much about the rest of the squad when your keeper is your star player but still they 2 had like 1 good season each while at UnitedDepends on your definition of a legend in my opinion.
He will go in to the pool of semi legend for me:
Legends - Class of 92, Ronaldo, Cantona, Rooney, Rio, Schmeichel, VDS, Vidic, Evra, Keane, Bruce etc (Not named them all)
Semi legends - De Gea, Valencia, Berba, Ibra, Van Persie, Ole? (Maybe in the full legend), Fletcher, Carrick etc (Not named them all)
He's certainly on a higher level than Teddy. I saw somebody else compare him to Ruud and I think that might be a good comparison.Not really. I’d say icon. Legend for me is different. He didn’t really win anything here. I associate legends with trophies.
I have him on the same level as Teddy Sheringham. Not quite a legend, but a valued icon.
Absolutely spot on.Depends on your definition of a legend in my opinion.
He will go in to the pool of semi legend for me:
Legends - Class of 92, Ronaldo, Cantona, Rooney, Rio, Schmeichel, VDS, Vidic, Evra, Keane, Bruce etc (Not named them all)
Semi legends - De Gea, Valencia, Berba, Ibra, Van Persie, Ole? (Maybe in the full legend), Fletcher, Carrick etc (Not named them all)
well, I can tell you who it isn't: that clown Barthez!Given that the top 3 keepers are Schmeichel, VDS and De Gea, which keeper is in the distant 4th position (Premier League ERA only)?
Comfortably Barthez, yes he made some clangers in his time, but you don’t win 2 PL titles if your keeper is a complete clown, he was similar to post World Cup DDG, Van der Gouw & Romero we’re very solid no2’s but were never first choice, and there was a reason why Howard and Carroll only pent 1 season each as first choice.Given that the top 3 keepers are Schmeichel, VDS and De Gea, which keeper is in the distant 4th position (Premier League ERA only)?
Actually hard to say. Both Barthez and Howard had one really good season each, before falling away badly in the following seasons and ultimately having to be replaced. Then there are the steady back-ups in Van der Gouw and Romero.Given that the top 3 keepers are Schmeichel, VDS and De Gea, which keeper is in the distant 4th position (Premier League ERA only)?
I thought Barthez was a good keeper for us overall, it's just he was liable to make mistakes.Given that the top 3 keepers are Schmeichel, VDS and De Gea, which keeper is in the distant 4th position (Premier League ERA only)?
He made many mistakes to be fair. Was dogshit on two finals against Barcelona, remember him costing us points against Liverpool and his peak was nowhere as high as De Gea’s (though his bottom level was much better than De Gea’s). De Gea staring from 2012-2013 up to 2017-2018 was better in every season than VDS’s best season here.Van Der Sar rarely made any mistakes at United, I'm not too bothered what he did anywhere else.
We got him when he was at his most experienced, he was the perfect goalkeeper in my opinion.
Was at fault for Lampard's goal in the CL final we won too, slipping in front of him as he ran in on goal.He made many mistakes to be fair. Was dogshit on two finals against Barcelona, remember him costing us points against Liverpool and his peak was nowhere as high as De Gea’s (though his bottom level was much better than De Gea’s). De Gea staring from 2012-2013 up to 2017-2018 was better in every season than VDS’s best season here.
Agreed, VDS also saved Anelka's PK which won it for us in 08'Was at fault for Lampard's goal in the CL final we won too, slipping in front of him as he ran in on goal.
None of which is to put him down in any way, just to point out that the notion that he didn't make mistakes is exaggerated. Even more so if you take his career pre-United into account, where there were plenty of errors too, including another costly CL final mistake.
He's not though, he was among the world's best, certainly top 3 during his peak. The same was true for VDS and Schmeichel. He's unlucky to have been our no 1 during the dark years. Easily our best player during the LVG era. How is our best player for a couple of seasons not in contention to be among the legends?If he’s a legend then he’s the ultimate symbol of the club’s decline.
If you’re a stalwart during a period of failure then you don’t deserve to be in such a conversation.
This. Absolute legend, during very turbulent and underwhelming years in club's history, and severely declined in the past three years, but legend nonetheless.I do not see how he is not a United legend. Was our best player for something like 5 seasons in a row, has more appearances in EPL’s team of the year than any other goalkeeper (be it from United or other teams) and is arguably our best ever goalkeeper. If he has a coach like SAF for his career here, he would have won dozens of trophies. Saying that he is not a legend would be as absurd as saying Robson is not a United legend (cause of lack of trophies) or Neville is not a legend (cause of his form near the end of his career).
Since I watch United (beginning of this century), the only player who IMO rank higher than him are: Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Rooney, Ronaldo and Keane with Rio, Vidic, Evra, VDS and potentially RVN being around his level.
Because we won feck all and he was a senior / leading player during that time.He's not though, he was among the world's best, certainly top 3 during his peak. The same was true for VDS and Schmeichel. He's unlucky to have been our no 1 during the dark years. Easily our best player during the LVG era. How is our best player for a couple of seasons not in contention to be among the legends?
Again, we could refer back to Bryan Robson. His career was that of a stalwart during a barren period too, contributing only as an aging squad player in his final two league-winning seasons (as opposed to De Gea who was the starting GK during his and made it into the PL team of the season).If he’s a legend then he’s the ultimate symbol of the club’s decline.
If you’re a stalwart during a period of failure then you don’t deserve to be in such a conversation.
I’m not old enough to judge. Did Robson ever produce anything as damagingly bad for the club as De Gea has in the last three years?Again, we could refer back to Bryan Robson. His career was that of a stalwart during a barren period too, contributing only as an aging squad player in his final two league-winning seasons (as opposed to De Gea who was the starting GK during his and made it into the PL team of the season). Does Robson not deserve to be in the conversation either?
If you're not able to judge whether Bryan Robson deserves to be regarded as a club legend then that suggests you don't know much about the club's history, not that you're too young. Presumably Buchan doesn't register on your radar either? Another symbol of failure by your standards.I’m not old enough to judge. Did Robson ever produce anything as damagingly bad for the club as De Gea has in the last three years?
I'm not sure you understand this "legend" talk is pure nostalgia. Let's remember world class Rooney and not the fat over the hill version.I’m not old enough to judge. Did Robson ever produce anything as damagingly bad for the club as De Gea has in the last three years?
That’s not what I was trying to say at all. I know what Robson means to United – and the fact that he’s regarded so highly speaks to the exceptional levels he reached as an individual during his spell with the club.If you're not able to judge whether Bryan Robson deserves to be regarded as a club legend then that suggests you don't know much about the club's history, not that you're too young. Presumably Buchan doesn't register on your radar either? Another symbol of failure by your standards.
And if a decline in form at the end of your United career is enough to deprive you of legend status despite what you've done before then we can discount many legends of the past too, starting with our all-time top goalscorer. It's a very reductive way of looking at someone's career.
Well, one recent season his shit form was the principal reason we missed CL qualification.I'm not sure you understand this "legend" talk is pure nostalgia. Let's remember world class Rooney and not the fat over the hill version.
Would Gerrard be less of a club legend than Keïta for Liverpool? Prizes aren't everything.
I also think the "damage" you're talking about is exaggerated. He's won 3 cups!
What "pantheon of legends"? It isn't an official term, it's a meaningless phrase that includes whoever people want it to include.That’s not what I was trying to say at all. I know what Robson means to United – and the fact that he’s regarded so highly speaks to the exceptional levels he reached as an individual during his spell with the club.
I was simply trying to point out that I am too young to have seen him play, so didn’t want to judge too deeply.
The fact of the matter is that De Gea has eroded the memory of his own brilliant peak by throwing the ball in his own net every other game for three years now.
Turning your own logic on its head, I would question what you know about the club’s traditions if you think he belongs anywhere near our pantheon of legends.
Some of your phraseology is making me chuckle. You talk about what De Gea has contributed. He’s the highest paid player in the PL which is astonishing and totally at odds with what he brings to the table. He’s a wage thief.What "pantheon of legends"? It isn't an official term, it's a meaningless phrase that includes whoever people want it to include.
If you only want to narrow it down to our absolute greatest ever players, that's fine. If you want to include everyone from Bobby Charlton down to Ji Sung Park, that's fine too. Nobody would claim you think they're all on the same level if you do, so it's not disrespecting anybody.
What is disrespectful though in saying the likes of Robson, Buchan and De Gea don't deserves to be in the conversation and are symbols of failure just because they happened to be here during a barren spell. Not because it discounts them from some vague and meaningless category of players but because it downplays what they actually contributed to the club in tough times.
As was Wayne Rooney in his final years, doing absolutely nothing to justify his wages. Which is why we sold him and why we may sell De Gea. Ditto countless other players over the years.Some of your phraseology is making me chuckle. You talk about what De Gea has contributed. He’s the highest paid player in the PL which is astonishing and totally at odds with what he brings to the table. He’s a wage thief.
Rooney was past it, but De Gea has actually been a sabotaging influence for three years.As was Wayne Rooney in his final years, doing absolutely nothing to justify his wages. Which is why we sold him and why we may sell De Gea. Ditto countless other players over the years.
That fact didn't erase their prior performances though or what they had contributed to the club up to that point, which is what this thread is about. If you want to criticise De Gea for what he's doing now then there are plenty of other threads to do so in.