That's why Wes Brown and David May are legends.Haha no, of course not.
Legend is relative but at our club it requires being part of and continuing the legacy of winning trophies, the big ones. He's been a grand stopper though.
That's why Wes Brown and David May are legends.Haha no, of course not.
Legend is relative but at our club it requires being part of and continuing the legacy of winning trophies, the big ones. He's been a grand stopper though.
Yes. It is. They are.That's why Wes Brown and David May are legends.
Alternatively he was a plucky underdog who rose to the occasion when expectations were low. And failed miserably when we were expected to win things. He let both his club and his country down so many times in knockout competitions when the pressure was on. The guy isn’t a winner. Never has had that mentality, never will.No. He was unlucky in that the years he was absolutely brilliant for us, we were too crap to win anything of note.
There’s no clear metric, just feeling imo. Ole wasn’t the greatest ever striker and Cantona wasn’t here years and years. Both absolute legends.I'm really surprised how many people think the number of trophies won is important to someone's chances of being deemed a legend. I wouldn't consider it to be relevant at all.
Someone can't force their teammates to play better and win stuff!
"Legend" should be determined by how good an individual was at their role and for how long, compared to others in that position, surely?
What knockout competition did he let us down in?Alternatively he was a plucky underdog who rose to the occasion when expectations were low. And failed miserably when we were expected to win things. He let both his club and his country down so many times in knockout competitions when the pressure was on. The guy isn’t a winner. Never has had that mentality, never will.
The only reason he didn't leave was a bizarre paperwork error.Legend for not leaving sooner. He could've easily jumped ship
VDS was part of the reason we had one of the best defenses ever, he knew how to lead from the back and inspired confidence which was contagious. DDG doesn’t transmit confidence to his defense because he is too error prone.Short memories. De Gea was the best keeper in the world for years. He and Neuer had no competition.
I love VDS and I think he was better for longer, but he was not the best in the world for as long as DDG was. He also played behind the best defence in the history of this club, and statistically one of the best club defences ever.
'hE iS a gOod shOt sToPpeR nOt a gOod goAlkeEpEr' as if we are talking about Brad Friedel ffs.
So Sir Alex, LVG and Jose are all idiots. Okay.
What's your take on Rooney and Ronaldo?Voted no with a heavy heart. David is without a doubt the greatest United player of the post-Fergie era but falls just a bit short of All-Time legendary stature for the club, I reckon — unless you expand the category to include over a couple dozen players across all positions and adulterate the significance of the term. When I think of legendary goalkeepers for a specific club the likes of Casillas (who was a testament to the institution of Madrid as well as an exquisite performer), Gregg (worse off than De Gea as a pure goalkeeper but an absolute legend because of heroics during the Munich air disaster) or Ceni (gave 20+ years to São Paulo and served as team captain for 700+ matches) come to mind.
An obviously brilliant player who enjoyed an extended stint as a world-class performer (where he was either the best or the second best goalkeeper in club football behind Neuer), saved our bacon on innumerable occasions and gave his peak-performance years to United, but all things considered David is not a mythical/transcendental figure who will reverberate through the ages from a narrative standpoint, and there's a noticeable gulf between him and bona fide legends like Charlton, Giggs, Best or Scholes.
Would readily include him in the great or semi-legend tier, though...in the company of van Nistelrooy, for example — intuitively, that category makes the most sense for him as while both he and Ruud were tremendous individuals (and among the very best in the world at the peak of their powers), there's a certain je ne sais quoi lacking in their United resumé; it's not even about “winning”, for what it's worth — think of the cometh-the-hour romance associated with Gregg, the maniacal leadership of Keane, the bravado and influence of Robson, or the charismatic genius of Cantona — standout qualities that made them more than just top, top performers in individual terms, and pushed them into the legendary tier.
I said it some time ago.What's your take on Rooney and Ronaldo?
I find it impossible to define to be honest. Usually, I think someone like Ronaldo who spent his best years at Madrid, is not a United legend. Whereas Rooney who is our record goalscorer and arguably the biggest overall contributor in our 5 titles and 1 CL (and 2 finals) in 7 years incredible run has to be. But United fans generally have a bit of a unending crush on Ronaldo whereas Rooney tends to get no love. So is it contribution or peak level or how iconic the player was or the fan affection towards them? I really don't know. It probably depends on how wide a net one wants to have.
Ooh, I have trouble categorizing them too, but looking back at their United careers (with the caveat that this is not a carefully considered opinion)...What's your take on Rooney and Ronaldo?
I find it impossible to define to be honest. Usually, I think someone like Ronaldo who spent his best years at Madrid, is not a United legend. Whereas Rooney who is our record goalscorer and arguably the biggest overall contributor in our 5 titles and 1 CL (and 2 finals) in 7 years incredible run has to be. But United fans generally have a bit of a unending crush on Ronaldo whereas Rooney tends to get no love. So is it contribution or peak level or how iconic the player was or the fan affection towards them? I really don't know. It probably depends on how wide a net one wants to have.
Thing is, there's such a wide spectrum of reasons to consider someone to be a legend. I'm wary of considering Ronaldo as one but he was hugely iconic for us without doubt. Then I see someone like Ole who is universally loved and considered as a legend but in terms of actual quality, we've had so many better. I mean, RVN was a better footballer as were the likes of Vidic, Evra, DDG etc They weren't "super subs" for us but they were giant pillars of us week in week out.Ooh, I have trouble categorizing them too, but looking back at their United careers (with the caveat that this is not a carefully considered opinion)...
- Rooney has to be there, warts an all. Spent 13 years at the club...giving us the full scope of his peak, almost always left his all on the pitch, an archetypal United player in terms of vigor and application and selflessness, an imperfect but effective leader, a tireless worker for the most part, an inspirational/galvanizing presence on the field, All-Time leading scorer, highest assist-maker of the Premier League era after Giggs — while I obviously wouldn't dare to put him in the same class as Charlton or Scholes...who had close to perfect resumés, he has too much going in his favor from an objective standpoint to not be included in the broader legend tier.
- Cristiano has to be there as well, if only towards the end of the legend category. His stature can definitely be contested because he departed too early and didn't give us the majority of his best years, and seemed totally enamored with Madrid in the death throes of his United tenure — but someone who was arguably the best player in club history in terms of distilled performance, arguably the best entertainer after Best, and spear-headed the advent of Fergie's third great team (following a somewhat gloomy period where it seemed like Abramovich's Chelsea would institute a hegemony in English football) while becoming only the fourth United player to win a Ballon D'Or should be there or thereabouts?
Give me a break Raoul, I've already explained why my original post was crap.That's why Wes Brown and David May are legends.
Cantona, Robson and Keane are indisputable to me and go there without thinking.When I say legend I think of Sir Bobby, Law, Best, Scholes, Giggs and even Rooney to a certain extent. Does DDG come close to any of these guys? Nope
Than we have cult heroes aka semi legends: Cantona, Neville, Robson, Copell, Beckham, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Vidic, VDS, Schmeichel, Keane.
At his peak he was absolutely world class. Best keeper in the premier league for 5/6 years and arguably the best in the world. That’s world class by most metrics.Not legendary status, i don't want to devalue the word. I would say he was a cult hero, great servant, some great performances, but just not at the level of world class. I think his lack of vocals separate him from the legendary goalkeepers, he just does not have enough presence. He sometimes looks like a like child in our goal.
That's a tough one.A more apt question maybe is does he make top 3-4 keepers for United?
When exactly were we expected to win things after Fergie left? I assume that you mean big titles?Alternatively he was a plucky underdog who rose to the occasion when expectations were low. And failed miserably when we were expected to win things. He let both his club and his country down so many times in knockout competitions when the pressure was on. The guy isn’t a winner. Never has had that mentality, never will.
I was going to post the same 4 , DDG and Stepney are about equal for me.In no particular order, Schmeichel, VDS, De Gea and Stepney?
Honestly, I read that as titties.When exactly were we expected to win things after Fergie left? I assume that you mean big titles?
Please tell me you are joking ?That's a tough one.
I'd rate him above Barthez but below Sealey in the legend list......
half joking.Please tell me you are joking ?
half joking.
It was a very thrown together list. Ole is a legend for me too.The disrespect to Ole is a joke.
Valencia? are you on crack??
His performance at Bernabeu against Jose Madrid? The stage can't be much bigger than that and at the age of 23.Absolutely nothing to show for in European comps other than bottlejobs.
That just isn't true. Van Der Sar made more than his fair share of mistakes both at United and before that too. They just tend to get punished and remembered less when you play in an excellent team that's capable of winning regardless.Not for me, i would pick Schmeichel and Van Der Sar over him all day long, true Manchester United goalkeeping legends.
Van Der Sar being the greatest Manchester United goalkeeper, Schmeichel whilst great, but was a bit eccentric at times like Mavarick in Top Gun, whilst Van Der Sar was like Iceman, calm/everything by the book/zero mistakes.
De Gea (at his best) was a good shot stopper, but was never someone you could fully trust on corners, almost never saves a penalty and always likes to punch the ball too much for my liking and there's always a mistake in him.