Is it sensible to carry on with Bruno as the focal point of our team next season?

[Alpha 1]

Bruno represents a low time for Man utd. An ambitious side would look for an upgrade but we settled for lesser and not only in his position, but several others as well.

 

[Jeppers7]

Yes we should, probably. He is always available, plays every minute, never injured, creates the most chances in the league, and playing with a random lineup every week. Half the time this season he’s played in front of 4th choice players, sometimes with players who have no ability in a makeshift role. Bruno’s 30 is like another player at 26. He’s got several years at the top left in him.

He doesn’t really, it’s just the way the stat is recorded. Our wide players take a lot of shots, so a simple pass out wide can create a ‘chance’.

In terms of players in the league over the last three seasons Bruno fares pretty poorly as a creative player for metrics that matter. Last three seasons…

kDB
G - 215mins
A - 165mins

*G/A every 93 mins.

James Maddison
G - 247mins
A- 247mins

*G/A - 123 mins

Martin Odergaard
G-295mins
A-419mins

*G/a - 173mins

Bruno
G-413mins
A-456mins

*G/A 216 mins

Andreas Pereira has a better minutes per assist for Fulham for example. In addition the above players have performed to a much higher standard, where Bruno has been poor.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

The problem is, I don’t think we’re finding anyone els with Bruno’s numbers. He creates more than De Bruyne. We just don’t finish them off. We need him back to his first season form… other priorities in the squad… the wingers being to selfish is a problem. When someone’s open in the box we never pass, shooting is always first with some players. Less selfish wingers who are creative and we’ll score a lot more goals.

This is the problem with stats. If there's a stat that says Bruno creates more than De Bruyne, it's not worth listening to. You just need to see with your own eyes, that's not close to being true.

 

[Jeffthered]

This discussion makes me think of United replacing Ruud with Saha. Ruud is probably the best out and out striker I’ve ever seen at United and was truly world class.

But he needed to be the focal point, wanting every attack to end with a shot for him and all he wanted to do was score goals. United were a far better team with Saha.

This is utter, utter madness. Madness.

 

[lilcurt]

This is utter, utter madness. Madness.

Not at all. The post you quoted is absolutely correct, towards the end the team needed to play for Ruud. When Saha came in our game was slick and fast and we played better.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

This is utter, utter madness. Madness.

It's not madness. That's absolutely true

 

[Jeffthered]

And to respond to the thread, absolutely no. We should be open to offers for Bruno Fernandes. He is not as good as many United fans think, he isn't critical to our progress. He's as disruptive as he is an asset, self-centred, lacks discipline or inspiration and he's been given a role which doesn't reflect well on the club. Bruno being Captain tells you everything about where we are as a team under ETH.

 

[Jeffthered]

Not at all. The post you quoted is absolutely correct, towards the end the team needed to play for Ruud. When Saha came in our game was slick and fast and we played better.

Edit: Whether a team plays better or not by changing their style is an entirely subjective debate. A team playing more direct, and scoring goals, against a 'slick style (???) team… depends what is more effective. And Man Utd were more effective, and clinical as an attacking team with RVN. He didn't score all those goals on his own.

 

[buckooo1978]

Love Bruno but he isnt suited to a possession based system which is what you'd expect us to play.

who knows what the plan will be under Ten Hag or a new manager. We may want to keep him and try and change his game a little to fit into a more possession focused approach.

Bruno is a very sellable asset and alongside Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay and Maguire our best chance of raising funds.

The players we really need to sell more urgently - Sancho, VDB etc will be more difficult.

 

[pocco]

My only concern with the likes of Bruno and Rashford is that they are probably the most talented players the likes of Ashworth and INEOS have had, and I just hope they can take a proper view on them and not be clouded by this. There were apparently rumours that INEOS want to keep Rashford and hearing things like this worries me, for the reason I've given. On what basis they could come to this conclusion already is worrying.

 

[mikeyt]

No, he's a high earner, who is approaching 30 and hasn't delivered consistently for some time. His attitude at times is disgusting and he is as far away from a leader as I see in this squad. He's had plenty of good moments here but if we have aspirations of competing for the league again, he among other fading mainstays need to be sold while we can get a good fee. The likes of him and Casemiro are two of ETH's most key players and neither are up to it and simply don't provide us the quality or discipline we need to move forward.

This is where I'm hoping the new regime will start being smart and cashing in while there are decent fees still to be earned.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He’s played 154 games at club level alone over the last three full seasons he’s been here and then you add Portugal appearances with the national team and it’s a miracle he’s shown no worse physical deterioration. He’s still the only attacking outlet for a team that struggles to find its arm from its foot in attack and you lot think we can do better.

 

[Oldyella]

This is utter, utter madness. Madness.

Looking at stats of the players it would be, but the side evolved when Saha was introduced, which wouldn't have happened with RVN remaining as the focal point of the attack.

Personally think the same needs to happen here. Someone may come in who is not at the same level ability wise but allows a more structured game to develop.

 

[DJ_21]

This is the problem with stats. If there's a stat that says Bruno creates more than De Bruyne, it's not worth listening to. You just need to see with your own eyes, that's not close to being true.

Speaking of seeing with your own eyes… you’ll clearly see it could be true but De Bruyne gets more credit because he has the players upfront to finish them… how many chances has Bruno created that have been missed by our attackers. We squander way too many chances. That’s the reason De Bruyne ends up with more assist but it doesn’t mean he creates more.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No we need another 10 / most advanced midfielder to eventually replace him, allow us to dominate possession and if that’s possible, force Bruno to elevate his game.

If we want to keep playing on the break and be perennial top 4-6 team then sure - let him be the talisman.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The problem is, I don’t think we’re finding anyone els with Bruno’s numbers. He creates more than De Bruyne. We just don’t finish them off. We need him back to his first season form… other priorities in the squad… the wingers being to selfish is a problem. When someone’s open in the box we never pass, shooting is always first with some players. Less selfish wingers who are creative and we’ll score a lot more goals.

That’s fine. The team will improve with a more functional midfield. Any serious club in this situation would add more midfielders and define the play style and then it’s up to Bruno to adapt to the front foot football the collective is aiming for.

 

[JJ12]

We should be upgrading or bolstering positions before him I think, It's such a massive job it has to be a 2/3 year rebuild.

CB
LB cover
CM/CDM
RW
CF - another option

Are probably the positions I'd look at first.

If Rashford continues this poor form and Garnacho continues to be inconsistent we may need to look at LW.

I guess it also comes down to who's available, so may not be able to do it in the perfect order. If somebody like Wirtz becomes available then it's a no brainer.

Long winded way of saying yes we need to move on but maybe not immediately.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

No we need another 10 / most advanced midfielder to eventually replace him, allow us to dominate possession and if that’s possible, force Bruno to elevate his game.

If we want to keep playing on the break and be perennial top 4-6 team then sure - let him be the talisman.

We just bought a 10 who can’t even get on the pitch even when fit ahead of McTominay, let alone replace Bruno.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Speaking of seeing with your own eyes… you’ll clearly see it could be true but De Bruyne gets more credit because he has the players upfront to finish them… how many chances has Bruno created that have been missed by our attackers. We squander way too many chances. That’s the reason De Bruyne ends up with more assist but it doesn’t mean he creates more.

De Bruyne creates more. There's no question, we miss chances but so do City. Can you honestly tell me seriously that Bruno creates more than De Bruyne regardless of the chances being converted?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We just bought a 10 who can’t even get on the pitch even when fit ahead of McTominay, let alone replace Bruno.

That’s fine. If your don’t succeed you try again.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

That’s fine. If your don’t succeed you try again.

Yeah the problem is that we can’t afford to take two or three stabs at positions that aren’t an immediate need when we are playing midfielders at left back and wingers at center forward with a defensive midfielder reaching his sell by date.

 

[DJ_21]

De Bruyne creates more. There's no question, we miss chances but so do City. Can you honestly tell me seriously that Bruno creates more than De Bruyne regardless of the chances being converted?

I’m just going of the stats… search it up. Bruno Fernandes has created the most chances this season in the premier league… which is surprising that he’s only got a few assist.

 

[Jeppers7]

Speaking of seeing with your own eyes… you’ll clearly see it could be true but De Bruyne gets more credit because he has the players upfront to finish them… how many chances has Bruno created that have been missed by our attackers. We squander way too many chances. That’s the reason De Bruyne ends up with more assist but it doesn’t mean he creates more.

I’ve put stats above regarding goals and assists. Are you telling me that James Maddison at Leicester or Pereira at Fulham have better minutes per assist because they have better players up front?

 

[DJ_21]

I’ve put stats above regarding goals and assists. Are you telling me that James Maddison at Leicester or Pereira at Fulham have better minutes per assist because they have better players up front?

Because they have players finishing of the chances… how many times has Rashford missed a 1 on 1 after being played through by Bruno.

 

[Jeppers7]

Because they have players finishing of the chances… how many times has Rashford missed a 1 on 1 after being played through by Bruno.

Again….Are you telling me Fulham players and Leicester players don’t miss chances?

The Bournemouth game at home Bruno statistically recorded 6 chances created. How?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Bruno has been the most consistent United player in a truly laughable set up akin to Gerrard's Liverpool for ages. But trust our fans to be ungrateful.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

His output has been on the wane since Klopp had his say on penalties. His performances have been consistently poor since the season Ronaldo signed, and inconsistent the second half of the season prior.

Pre-Klopps outburst
Non pen goal every 415 mins
Assist every 348 mins.

Post-Klopps outburst
Non pen goal every 478 mins
Assists every 453 mins.

Maybe he’s a confidence player and drew confidence from the amount of penalties he was afforded. Whatever the case his performances have been poor for way too long and his output is waning significantly. We need to look to move in a different direction as a team so a near 30 year old, who’s in decline and is on,y suited to transition football, is not someone we should be hanging on to.

Assists are a frankly a weak statistic when judging players like Bruno because it entirely depends on tea mates taking chances. Chances created is a far superior statistic (especially from open play) Since he arrived only KDB competes with him in chances created in the league season on season.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Assists are a frankly a weak statistic when judging players like Bruno because it entirely depends on tea mates taking chances. Chances created is a far superior statistic (especially from open play) Since he arrived only KDB competes with him in chances created in the league season on season.

Considering how bad United have been and how most players who join generally play worse, I’d say it’s unfair and hard to judge Bruno. I’d love to see how he’d get on a club that’s not a mess.

Comparing players and managers at clubs that have less pressure and thus players who can play with more freedom (and probably playing at clubs that don’t have the baggage that we impose on everybody we hire/sign) is a bit redundant.

Think of players who had unreal stats at decent teams in top leagues but struggled to bring them levels to bigger clubs. I think it’s Riquelme and Mendieta that come to mind. Both quality players but when they got a chance at bigger clubs they couldn’t handle it.

There’s plenty of examples , but unless a player/manager has succeded in a pressure cooker environment at the top level , it’s apples and oranges comparisons. So for me Bruno has done extraordinarily well with us and if anything he’s been one of our best signings in 11 years. I can’t think of many senior ones (maybe zlatan) who we got more bang for our buck.

But then you look at the team being built to suit him. How much does that play a role? Would we be better with a more rounded player in his position who is more controlled. Bruno shooting in that Luton game in injury time , when ball was in corner was bad. They nearly equalised moments later.

Considering the bullsh*t going on at the club I’d call Bruno a great buy and a great player for us. I still think there’s a case that if we had a more settled , balanced team, he may be worth replacing, but there’s plenty of work to do in that squad before focusing on Bruno

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Considering how bad United have been and how most players who join generally play worse, I’d say it’s unfair and hard to judge Bruno. I’d love to see how he’d get on a club that’s not a mess.

Comparing players and managers at clubs that have less pressure and thus players who can play with more freedom (and probably playing at clubs that don’t have the baggage that we impose on everybody we hire/sign) is a bit redundant.

Think of players who had unreal stats at decent teams in top leagues but struggled to bring them levels to bigger clubs. I think it’s Riquelme and Mendieta that come to mind. Both quality players but when they got a chance at bigger clubs they couldn’t handle it.

There’s plenty of examples , but unless a player/manager has succeded in a pressure cooker environment at the top level , it’s apples and oranges comparisons. So for me Bruno has done extraordinarily well with us and if anything he’s been one of our best signings in 11 years. I can’t think of many senior ones (maybe zlatan) who we got more bang for our buck.

But then you look at the team being built to suit him. How much does that play a role? Would we be better with a more rounded player in his position who is more controlled. Bruno shooting in that Luton game in injury time , when ball was in corner was bad. They nearly equalised moments later.

Considering the bullsh*t going on at the club I’d call Bruno a great buy and a great player for us. I still think there’s a case that if we had a more settled , balanced team, he may be worth replacing, but there’s plenty of work to do in that squad before focusing on Bruno

I don't see ANY good reason to replacr Bruno. His creativity hasn' t waned and he is ever fit. He literally pays for example the same way as Ødegaard at Arsenal, out strips him defensively and creatively but because our set up is so poor, personnel wise we make him look bad and erratic whilst Arsenal's system makes their Norwegian playmaker appear majestic.

I'm convinced once we have the personnel to fix the system we are attempting to build. Even Bruno will significantly improve because he won't have to constantly attemp Gerrard impersonations by trying to do everything and I have no doubt he can operate in a more disciplined fashion. I see him do it for Porrugal in a side that have their attacking position rotations down to a science.

 

[Brightonian]

Let's not forget the man's game was not this chaotic and wasteful when he came to us. Think about that first 12 months or so, he barely put a foot wrong.

Playing amidst the constant chopping and changing, players and teams in and out of form, no plan from the top... I think it has taken a toll on him. If the man had been signed by Madrid or Bayern instead of us his reputation would be unassailable and he might be a better player too. He'd certainly be happier. But his dedication is absolute, he plays every single minute and he busts a gut for every single one of them.

No way in a million years we should be selling him. If we find ourselves in a position to buy real competition for him, then by all means make him fight for his place. But it's not his fault we're in such a mess in so many positions that it's unlikely we'll spend money that way. Maybe that's what Mount was meant to be. Maybe he still could be.

Not every player deserves loyalty from fans, but players like Bruno do.

 

[Hammondo]

Speaking of seeing with your own eyes… you’ll clearly see it could be true but De Bruyne gets more credit because he has the players upfront to finish them… how many chances has Bruno created that have been missed by our attackers. We squander way too many chances. That’s the reason De Bruyne ends up with more assist but it doesn’t mean he creates more.

He definitely creates better chances.

 

[Red00012]

We’ve far bigger problems than Bruno who is also a big problem worryingly

 

[Hammondo]

I’m just going of the stats… search it up. Bruno Fernandes has created the most chances this season in the premier league… which is surprising that he’s only got a few assist.

Quantity over quality.

 

[DJ_21]

Again….Are you telling me Fulham players and Leicester players don’t miss chances?

The Bournemouth game at home Bruno statistically recorded 6 chances created. How?

Of course every single player misses chances but again… it’s about who misses the most. You can’t deny that we miss tons of chances every game that should be goals. The game against Luton for example we should have scored at least 5 minimum.

 

[DJ_21]

He definitely creates better chances.

Agreed. Players like Garnacho, Rashford need to be more clinical.

 

[Hammondo]

Agreed. Players like Garnacho, Rashford need to be more clinical.

I mean De bruyne makes better chances, Bruno spams half chances a lot.

 

[Mainoonited]

No. Bruno might be the best we have but he's no KDB. He thinks he is - but he's not.

I think with a strong team around him his level would be higher - but at that stage if he was replaced by someone top tier the whole team would go up a gear.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The guys being played as a number 8 in a role that struggles what he’s good at. He’s not been the focal point of the team since Ole left.

I find it difficult to really judge Bruno when he’s being played in a position he has limited suitability for.

He’s not the ideal player, far from it but he was a very productive one. We went from a team that needed to improve on McFred to this shower of shite set up. EtH immediately came in & started shoehorning him into a set up that doesn’t benefit either.

If he’s going to be playing as a 10 & we get a proper midfielder to partner Kobbie behind him then I’m all for keeping him. If Eth is staying, then there’s no point.

 

[DJ_21]

I mean De bruyne makes better chances, Bruno spams half chances a lot.

Ye his final ball lately has been shocking. Still think if we had someone in the same league as Haaland then a lot of our chances would be converted.

 

[Remember the geese]

No it is not sensible. We need players in every single position.