I mean this is what I'd want us to do, but if we tried to sign Haaland, Raiola would insist on a release clause, which we'd have to accept if we wanted him, and then we'd just look like complete idiots. Which in fairness would be because we are.
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
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I was on topic all the time. You were the one arguing something I never said.
What do you know? They are getting more and more in trouble, and Sancho is making them feel the weight of their error.This is such a spoilt, entitled viewpoint.
Basically 'we are United and as such you will sell us any player we want for any price we want'.
The 'work around' was to meet Dortmund's demand of ~£108m, which you didn't do.
I can categorically confirm they won't waste any time at all 'working around' a £40m offer.
£108m is long gone, they will be lucky with £40m very soon, especially when they keep losing left and right.
Then they will be in a s*******.
$50m + add-ons.
Not worth paying 60m guaranteed during covid times. He was only really worth 85m precovid imo.
We overpaid for Maguire. I'm glad we didn't do the same with sancho. He would be getting slated to hell by our fans
Not worth paying 60m guaranteed during covid times. He was only really worth 85m precovid imo.
We overpaid for Maguire. I'm glad we didn't do the same with sancho. He would be getting slated to hell by our fans
I think he has probably downed tools himself and having abit of a sulk. We all know he was looking forward to playing with his mate Rashford in the summer in United colours but it didn’t happen
Shoulda put the transfer request in.
If I remember correctly, he was injured for a long time in that campaign
Something that I haven't seen mentioned here yet, although it's the common sentiment among Dortmund forums, is that he's desperately missing the overlapping runs from Hakimi.
A huge percentage of everything good he did last season came from link-ups with Hakimi - one-twos, decoy runs etc.
A huge percentage of everything good he did last season came from link-ups with Hakimi - one-twos, decoy runs etc.
We are Manchester United. We do what we want.
Basically 'we are United and as such you will sell us any player we want for any price we want'.
The 'work around' was to meet Dortmund's demand of ~£108m, which you didn't do.
I can categorically confirm they won't waste any time at all 'working around' a £40m offer.
We will not be sending an offer to Dortmund to "ask" them if this is okay or not. We would send them a £40m offer to basically tell them to choose their own poison. And I'd be loving every minute of that, even if we don't want get Sancho. I don't care about Sancho anymore. It is all about the deserved get-back we dish to Dortmund.
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This thread should not be in the United forum.
It's transfer related and Sancho is not United's player.
Moved!
It's transfer related and Sancho is not United's player.
Moved!
Eh?
It's his second best season in United..... He was a freak of nature in 07/08, not hitting the same insane heights the following season in England is hardly shocking, doesn't change the fact that he was sublime that year as well. He didn't once sulk after it became clear he was staying, so feck knows what you think you're on about
Some people really shouldn't have access to numbers.
08/09 was a decline for Ronaldo from the previous year, and even 06/07. I'd argue he wasn't our best player that season (that would go to Vidic).
Partly not his fault, he was out with an injury early on in the season, and when he came back he struggled for form somewhat. He came back to life in the second half of the season, especially in the CL, but he was getting a lot of flack from fans up to the game at Porto (he was average at best in the 2-2 draw at home).
I'm not going to say he sulked, but I can understand those who felt he did. The summer was draining for fans and for him to come back subpar (compared to the last two seasons) rubbed many the wrong way.
Yeah, sounds like the perfect model to run a football club and/or business.
20 years old, fully fledged England international with Ballon D'Or type potential - a goal or assist every 85 minutes in a top 4 league in his first 3 seasons in professional football.
Dortmund didn't need to sell and this follows on from them selling a similar player in Dembele 3 years before for roughly the same price. So how is that them overpricing him?
We live in a world where your own side paid £80m for Maguire, Barca paid more for a much older Coutinho 2 years ago than Dortmund wanted for Sancho etc.
Oh and regarding my 'nonsense' about Utd...
Once again - hugely entitled fanbase who thinks' other clubs should bow at their feet and hand them any player they want.
What would be fun is if Dortmund gets 5th or blow. Then, the conversation is going to be interesting.
Dortmund and are entitled to expect whatever they want for one of their prized assets to be fair, but benchmarking against Dembele and Coutinho is a bit of a misnomer. The only reason they went for the prices they did was because PSG used an oil states resources to spend £200m on Neymar, which Barca then used to purchase those two players. Comparetively you look at players like Mane and Salah moving a year earlier for £30m odd.
The knock on effect to that was players like Maguire and Havertz become worth £80m, a bit ridiculous but yes comparatively Sancho at £110m isn't too bad. But things changed this year - revenues have been massively hit by Corona and prices have depressed with clubs spending less. Against that backdrop £110m on Sancho became unreasonable, imo.
Also Sancho's stats in the Bundesliga are misleading - similarly Kagawa and Mikhitaryan got around 20 goals in single contributions for Dortmund, but then failed to really show much in the PL for us. Sancho despite shining for Dortmund will find it harder in the more physical and defensively compact premier league. He's a talent alright but he's not in the same leagues as players like Neymar or Mbappe who both are technically excellent like Sancho but physically are a step above from him.
Is hoping they don't even make the EL too much to ask?
That would be amazing, and I can imagine the dressing room will be buzzing, with players regretting the choice of Dortmund over some other clubs and all, but it would take a huge storm to have such a situation. Their league is not really that strong, so I can't imagine that happening. But who knows?
Raiola is not Haalands agent. His father is. Raiola served as an advisor in the deal with Dortmund, but that does not men he has to be involved in a transfer to Untied. Ole knows both Erling and his father quite well.
I do think Haaland likes Raiola. It will be a pain in the ass.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/haalan...ibed agent,Italian for the foreseeable future.
I think you are really overrating him.
I think he’s a player with excellent potential. But you e mentioned “fully fledged England International” where he’s not a starter, and hasn’t really done anything of note - to be frank for England he looks average.
furthermore, if you think he’s the potential to be the bast player in the world, then so do 100 young players.
of course Dortmund can ask whatever fee they want - but they seriously misjudged this.
Dortmund didn’t need to sell, but they wanted to. But they seriously misjudged that we were in a pandemic, and where there was only one buyer.
I don’t see anyone else coming in for him. So if they want to move him on, they will need to seriously adjust their valuation.
hardly surprising that United fans take joy in that reality.
could they sell him for close for £100m again, not a chance. Shop has sailed.
edit to add. As other have stated, Dortmund is a stepping stone club. Bellingham, Sancho, Haaland don’t want to spend half their careers there, they go to be developed, and get a move to a big club. If Dortmund keep pricing out their players, then these guys won’t go there in the first place.
Dortmund will still have lost less than the amount it cost us to pay Sanchez to go play somewhere else.... we are about to lose Pogba on the cheap or even on a free for the second time. We were supposedly going all in for sancho for the last 2 summers and it’s not some great victory we didn’t get him just another case of us messing up when it was easier to just do the deal but still getting a bit of luck in the end (see Bruno’s signing) we’ve wasted over a billion quid post Fergie and we still struggle to get the players we want or field a complete team but Dortmund are the ones who’ve messed up? Yes they probably should have sold but he’s still worth a hell of a lot. Just a young player having a blip in form.
What an entitled, self centred bunch some of our are
Acting like dortmund are our enemies because their social media department came up with a light hearted post. From another perspective we completely unsettled one of their best players despite never intending to pay what they wanted
The fact is they set out the fee they wanted early in the window and they are entitled to ask for what they want for their players, as we are for ours. If we thought it was too much it would have been sensible to walk away from the deal early in the window. However ed seemed obsessed with trying to negotiate them down and continually put out briefings through friendly journalists to help aid this
Those who are crediting ed for not paying what dortmund wanted are frankly absolute morons. He made the window into a circus whilst spending £75m om transfers without improving the first team
Acting like dortmund are our enemies because their social media department came up with a light hearted post. From another perspective we completely unsettled one of their best players despite never intending to pay what they wanted
The fact is they set out the fee they wanted early in the window and they are entitled to ask for what they want for their players, as we are for ours. If we thought it was too much it would have been sensible to walk away from the deal early in the window. However ed seemed obsessed with trying to negotiate them down and continually put out briefings through friendly journalists to help aid this
Those who are crediting ed for not paying what dortmund wanted are frankly absolute morons. He made the window into a circus whilst spending £75m om transfers without improving the first team
Yeah, more the reason that he's not going to fit better. The one behind him would be Wan Bissaka, who would offer much less attacking threat than Hakimi
He had to say that, as Raiola won the award for "best agent in the world" at the same event. It's obviously natural that they might continue to work together, but if he wants to rejoin Ole at a United keeping the trajectory they have been on for the last year, he might tell Raiola to sod off if that is required.
But yeah, he would probably still be a pain in the ass.
I would say he was fantastic that season after his injury. But took a while to come back.
He missed some games in 07-08 too but three of those were because of a "headbutt". As you say, he also had the move away hanging over him but he was still great.
Obviously not as good as 07-08 but is that really the question?
There is an economic downturn. To think Dortmund are immune from that is crazy talk. Their losses are mounting. Did they need to sell? Maybe not then but maybe now.
His stats over his short time in Germany are impressive.
As are kagawas (41 goals 37 assists in 148 games)
and
Mkhitaryan (41 goals and 49 assists in 140 games)
And look how they turned out! I believe Sancho to be better but I wanted to add weight to my argument that the £108 million was still a massive gamble and a fee usually reserved for a player at the peak of their powers, Jadon still has plenty room for improvement.
He's pulling no trees up this season and although Dortmund are going through a tough period on the pitch, Sancho looks massively out of sorts. He struggled to control a 5 yard pass against UB.
As for the self entitled part...
In 2017 a Charlton fan was arrested and jailed for punching the Palace mascot. So by your logic, all Charlton fans a thugs and criminals, correct? You based your statement on one fans comment from a team with a reported 690 million fans! (Kantar reporting in 2013)
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To the thread title - no, I don't really believe any player at present is worth that much. Even Ronnie/Messi because of their age.
People really need to adjust their perspective to the covid economy in sports. There are no fans. There is less commercial interest because of that. Revenue simply will go down.
Even United - who have excellent revenue streams - do not have 100m to throw around on single players every window. No one does (except thoes clubs that don't need to break even of course).
Coutinho, Dembele are excellent examples of why NOT to do these deals - Barca are basically f*cked.
Imho, any deal involving 100m for a single player is daft, and any squad would be better improvedby purchasing 2 c. 50m players. In today's football of tactics, pressing and so forth, 1 of the 10 outfield players cannot single-handedly make that much difference.
Hopefully we sitll get Sancho because I do think it's a deal that makes sense for all parties. He wants to leave, he'd be an instant starter for us, back in his home country. Dortmund know he's going to leave, and are a selling team. We're a buying team with a huge hole on one side of a two-sided pitch. So I expect this to get done in the summer, and I expect it to be far less eye-watering numbers.
People really need to adjust their perspective to the covid economy in sports. There are no fans. There is less commercial interest because of that. Revenue simply will go down.
Even United - who have excellent revenue streams - do not have 100m to throw around on single players every window. No one does (except thoes clubs that don't need to break even of course).
Coutinho, Dembele are excellent examples of why NOT to do these deals - Barca are basically f*cked.
Imho, any deal involving 100m for a single player is daft, and any squad would be better improvedby purchasing 2 c. 50m players. In today's football of tactics, pressing and so forth, 1 of the 10 outfield players cannot single-handedly make that much difference.
Hopefully we sitll get Sancho because I do think it's a deal that makes sense for all parties. He wants to leave, he'd be an instant starter for us, back in his home country. Dortmund know he's going to leave, and are a selling team. We're a buying team with a huge hole on one side of a two-sided pitch. So I expect this to get done in the summer, and I expect it to be far less eye-watering numbers.
Haaland's own words are Railoa is the best agent in the world and I want to continue working with him.
We would be mad to get involved with him and go through the same circus as every other Railoa deal.
I can't believe we are debating the potential of Sancho vs Kagawa and Mkhitaryan. Literally before this whole saga happened you will find tonnes of United fans on this forum proclaiming him to be the next best thing. Funny how that's changed.
Also in response to your last bit, it's not based off of one fans comment - more like 6 years of RedCafe experience across the board.
We are not debating who is better. re-read it as you clearly misunderstood me.
Again, a small selection area to reference but when you are intent on driving your narrative, it's expected.Also in response to your last bit, it's not based off of one fans comment - more like 6 years of RedCafe experience across the board.
Welcome to the world of business. Dortmund have every right to set a particular price, and United have every right to negotiate and haggle. Every single club in the world has suffered financially because of Covid-19, to criticise the board for not mindlessly writing a cheque for £108m and instead wanting to get a better price is fecking ridiculous, and is out of touch with reality. Despite our inconsistencies this year you'll see lots of people praising Ed and the board for not caving to Dortmund's excessive demands. That is despite the fact that Ed Woodward is possibly the most vilified man to ever be involved with United in any capacity (Tevez might run him close, but I reckon Woodward still wins out). Also, the Dortmund social media page has previous for those weird, cringe worthy snipes. They send a tweet out to Mkhitaryan when we went into Europa League or something equally small-time. It's no wonder fans are having a bit of a laugh at their expense given how things have panned out.
Your last point is a strange one. Has Cavani not improved the team? We're still waiting to see the best of Telles and VdB but they weren't signed to immediately come into the first 11 but to be excellent options and strengthen depth, which is tantamount to winning titles and trophies. Regardless, VdB is a huge upgrade on the likes of Lingard and Pereira and Telles gives us much needed rotation, and something different, for Shaw. 2 of our other signings haven't even played yet but are very well regarded youth players. It wasn't the perfect window but it wasn't a terrible one either.
Some strange digs at United fans and posters on the 'caf. I've followed and posted here for over a decade and while it has it's fair share of nobs, it is primarily filled with good people that are passionate about footy.I can't believe we are debating the potential of Sancho vs Kagawa and Mkhitaryan. Literally before this whole saga happened you will find tonnes of United fans on this forum proclaiming him to be the next best thing. Funny how that's changed.
Also in response to your last bit, it's not based off of one fans comment - more like 6 years of RedCafe experience across the board.
Fair enough, but I don't see why they would change their stance. We're not top of the tree so if that's Haaland's ambition he wont want to tie himself down somewhere midway up. The illusion of being able to control when players come and go is exactly that. The only way you control that is by keeping them happy when they are here.
I'm still perplexed how we managed not to sign him for such a small fee, then spent all summer quibbling over a much bigger fee for a player who, imo, would be less beneficial to us than him. I wouldn't have minded signing Sancho as I think he COULD turn out to be a very good player, but the fee would have put a clowd over him from the off, and he's what, 19? He'd have had next to no chance of living up to it.
Yes he is but only on add-ons. Considering his age, potential, being English and the fact that he has only played in Germany, I think a 60ml guaranteed plus a 30/40 ml add-ons is fine.
Hevertz went for 70 ml including add-ons and he is just 21 himself.
Hevertz went for 70 ml including add-ons and he is just 21 himself.
No.
I wasnt blaming the board for trying to haggle for sancho however i am blaming them for not signing an alternative capable of starting in that position. Given the gap between what we were willing to offer and what Dortmund wanted it was always unlikely we were going to get the deal done so we should have moved on much earlier.
And no i dont think any of the summer signings really strenthen the first team for this season. Cavani is the closest to doing so but it dont have much faith he will be able to stay fit for any length of time. Its early days bug things arent looking promising for dvb
QUOTE="Harry Harries, post: 26522077, member: 52854"]
Welcome to the world of business. Dortmund have every right to set a particular price, and United have every right to negotiate and haggle. Every single club in the world has suffered financially because of Covid-19, to criticise the board for not mindlessly writing a cheque for £108m and instead wanting to get a better price is fecking ridiculous, and is out of touch with reality. Despite our inconsistencies this year you'll see lots of people praising Ed and the board for not caving to Dortmund's excessive demands. That is despite the fact that Ed Woodward is possibly the most vilified man to ever be involved with United in any capacity (Tevez might run him close, but I reckon Woodward still wins out). Also, the Dortmund social media page has previous for those weird, cringe worthy snipes. They send a tweet out to Mkhitaryan when we went into Europa League or something equally small-time. It's no wonder fans are having a bit of a laugh at their expense given how things have panned out.
Your last point is a strange one. Has Cavani not improved the team? We're still waiting to see the best of Telles and VdB but they weren't signed to immediately come into the first 11 but to be excellent options and strengthen depth, which is tantamount to winning titles and trophies. Regardless, VdB is a huge upgrade on the likes of Lingard and Pereira and Telles gives us much needed rotation, and something different, for Shaw. 2 of our other signings haven't even played yet but are very well regarded youth players. It wasn't the perfect window but it wasn't a terrible one either.
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And no i dont think any of the summer signings really strenthen the first team for this season. Cavani is the closest to doing so but it dont have much faith he will be able to stay fit for any length of time. Its early days bug things arent looking promising for dvb
QUOTE="Harry Harries, post: 26522077, member: 52854"]
Welcome to the world of business. Dortmund have every right to set a particular price, and United have every right to negotiate and haggle. Every single club in the world has suffered financially because of Covid-19, to criticise the board for not mindlessly writing a cheque for £108m and instead wanting to get a better price is fecking ridiculous, and is out of touch with reality. Despite our inconsistencies this year you'll see lots of people praising Ed and the board for not caving to Dortmund's excessive demands. That is despite the fact that Ed Woodward is possibly the most vilified man to ever be involved with United in any capacity (Tevez might run him close, but I reckon Woodward still wins out). Also, the Dortmund social media page has previous for those weird, cringe worthy snipes. They send a tweet out to Mkhitaryan when we went into Europa League or something equally small-time. It's no wonder fans are having a bit of a laugh at their expense given how things have panned out.
Your last point is a strange one. Has Cavani not improved the team? We're still waiting to see the best of Telles and VdB but they weren't signed to immediately come into the first 11 but to be excellent options and strengthen depth, which is tantamount to winning titles and trophies. Regardless, VdB is a huge upgrade on the likes of Lingard and Pereira and Telles gives us much needed rotation, and something different, for Shaw. 2 of our other signings haven't even played yet but are very well regarded youth players. It wasn't the perfect window but it wasn't a terrible one either.
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think that his form will help ‘level’ his price.....it’s often the case that young players have dips in form - Dortmund missed a trick to get top dollar last summer - they won’t get anything like that now.....think that this ship has sailed for us as well now
100m is too much for a winger, unless you're buying someone like peak Robben or Hazard. For me, the big money should be spent down the spine of the team. CB, CM and CF. If we can get 3 top class players in those positions for around 150 - 200m then it's worth a lot more than two Sancho's.
He's a great player I think of course, but for me you build a team capable of winning the title from the middle, and then fill in the pieces around it. We need a right winger for sure, but I don't think we can spend a huge amount of our budget on a winger when we have more important positions to fill. We absolutely need to address the imbalance of our squad though.
He's a great player I think of course, but for me you build a team capable of winning the title from the middle, and then fill in the pieces around it. We need a right winger for sure, but I don't think we can spend a huge amount of our budget on a winger when we have more important positions to fill. We absolutely need to address the imbalance of our squad though.
Yeah I would definitely prefer us to give Diallo a chance there and spend the money addressing our CB, DM and proper CF issues
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