Think he's a much bigger issue defensively than offensively, I don't we've attacked that badly the last month or so, but he's offering our CBs absolutely no protection whatsoever and it's giving teams license to walk straight through us.
Is Matic a big reason why we can't build attacks?
- Thread starter Adam-Utd
- Start date
I don't think that Matic is a bad as everyone makes out, he still can influence a game to a certain extent, but that game would be played a pedestrian pace. I do think he is on the wane now, evidence of this can be seen in most of this seasons matches, where he has failed to track runners into our box adequately, being a yard or two behind them in the danger area. I would be looking for Pereira to replace him, although I would not class Pereira as a DM, but a more creative CM, with a tremendous deadball ability, with Fred and Herrera either side of him I think we would be able to break quickly out of defence, utilising Pogba's abilities on the ball further forward, with a strike force of Martial, Rashford or Sanchez.
He's not a dreadful player, there could be any number of reasons he's playing poorly but a bit like Lukaku we don't really have a replacement and I'd wager Mourinho is just hoping he can play himself into some form, he's a certain type of DM, more of a classic DM than a destroyer, which we could've utilised Herrera in if we wanted to go down that route. When he's been bad he has been bad though, it's his defending that's costing us this season, I don't rate Smalling and Lindelof as the best CBs in the league by any margin but they are going to end up looking bad if attackers just get a free run against them over and over again.
It's been evident for a few games now that Matic's positioning has been all over the show and he's lacking a bit of mobility too which doesn't help. Pereira wouldn't be a bad shout but that'd be a very top heavy midfield and I think we'd still be seeing a lot of the same problems we are currently. Long term I think we'll end up seeing Pereira a bit further forward so we can make the best use of his creativity. Having such attack minded full backs doesn't do us any favours either as good as they've both been, ideally we'd play them more defensively but then we lose a dimension in our attack, quite the dilemma. Our best bet would be try and get someone in January.
Matic is in poor form, but no, he isn’t really the problem. We would be a struggling side regardless of our defensive midfielder. The full team lacks movement and dynamism.
If anything, he hurts us more the other way. He’s ghosted by too easily and often fails to follow his midfield runner back into the box.
If anything, he hurts us more the other way. He’s ghosted by too easily and often fails to follow his midfield runner back into the box.
Centre backs and full backs other than Shaw are a much bigger problem in building out from the back. I'd even put DDG in there.
I know shitting on Matic is the fashionable thing to do at the moment but when he isn't farting about like in the first half yesterday, he's very good at controlling the tempo of the game. He did it in the second half yesterday and also in the second half against Chelsea.
If we moved the ball quickly from the goalie to the defence to midfield the way any of our other top 6 rivals do, this thread wouldn't exist imo. Our attack has already been started slowly by the time it reaches Matic so giving him the blame is a bit weird.
What he really should be criticised for is his ability to protect the back four right now. On the ball he's fine to me.
I know shitting on Matic is the fashionable thing to do at the moment but when he isn't farting about like in the first half yesterday, he's very good at controlling the tempo of the game. He did it in the second half yesterday and also in the second half against Chelsea.
If we moved the ball quickly from the goalie to the defence to midfield the way any of our other top 6 rivals do, this thread wouldn't exist imo. Our attack has already been started slowly by the time it reaches Matic so giving him the blame is a bit weird.
What he really should be criticised for is his ability to protect the back four right now. On the ball he's fine to me.
Doesn't help that De Gea just smashes it constantly, when he first joined I remember him being quite good technically for a keeper but he doesn't do anything like that anymore. Getting De Gea to keep it on the ground every so often might be a half decent place to start.
My midfield would be very combative, all will put a foot in, but I still think a deeper lying Pereira could dictate a game better than Matic at the moment, and would certainly pass the ball forward quicker, and controlled, not hoofball. He can also get himself out of sticky situations with his natural ability, and pushing forward would not be a problem, as long as either Fred or Herrera hold a defensive position if he does push on.
Excellent post mate! It will be ignored by the Mourinho can do no wrong crowd though.
I don’t think he did, I had a look to see if I could see it in highlights or something but couldn’t find the incident but I’m pretty certain he did not retain possession. I have seen him retain possession previously quite well but not at this moment in time, for me he is a massive problem and yesterdays first half performance was terrible by him. Second half he improved massively so it’ll be intresting to see if there are more games with Herrera and Pogba along side him how his performances levels will be.
I say this as a previous Matic fan, but for me he had a good 2/3 months with us when he first arrived and that 1 standout game early on where he was amazing and he has never got anywhere near that level since. My major gripe is how poor his offensive decisions are and how poor his quality of passing has become and the general pace that he plays at. He might have all the football IQ in the world but if he doesn’t want to put the effort in to getting where the danger is then it’s useless. He needs a rest out of the team in my opinion but we don’t really have nailed on cover for his position although I think Herrera’s energy could do a job there. I’d even be tempted to stick Lindelof in there as I’m sure he has played there before.
Yeah, i remember LVG was getting loads of plaudits for 'improving' Smalling, as he carried the ball over the halfway line a few times
If you made a list of our midfielders over the last 20 years he'd be near the bottom (if you excluded players that made less than 15 / 20 appearances).
For what it is worth, we do have a replacement for Matic in the like for like sense and that is Fellaini but he's currently injured. He's probably better than what Matic is producing on his current form at pushing, transitioning the attack and positioning to defend. That is actually a bit of an underrated blow to the balance of our team.
The problem with Matic, in this vein of form is that he looks immobile and way way off the pace. That genuinely is a worry, I don't see much urgency and a willingness to take responsibility in midfield and in general if he isn't playing the straight up anchor in front of the back four and gets drawn out into a more all-round role he looks absolutely awful. It is similar when Pogba gets drawn back into our own half and jogs around fake pressing, fake hustling and fake defending.
Those are two massive combo breakers that go a long way to explaining the way we built up, it was horrific in the first half against Bornemouth and has been the same kinds of awful in a few fixtures this season.
I don't think we have any other first team/experienced midfielders that we can play there that are good enough and responsible enough defensively. Every other player creates a bit of a liability.
With Pogba there, who knows what you're going to get out of him on any given day. It could be amazing in patches and it could be totally shite all in a 90 minute performance ala Bornemouth.
I don't think this is an easy fix with coaching/players etc. etc. If the players don't want to play or don't care about changing the fortunes during 90 minutes there is not really much you can do. Some times it works and sometimes we get munged by West Ham and look like idiots in doing it.
against Bournemouth we almost conceded at every attack by them.
The reason is not the defence. It is was because neither Matic nor Fred can play as a DM.
They were simply going through us.
Things changes when Herrera came in for Fred.
Only Herrera or Fellani can play that position currently.
The reason is not the defence. It is was because neither Matic nor Fred can play as a DM.
They were simply going through us.
Things changes when Herrera came in for Fred.
Only Herrera or Fellani can play that position currently.
I just feel we are lacking of movements off the ball. The players seems being instructed to play safe rather than taking risk and not spreading the ball faster from defense to attack. Once we are behind, then they will take the risk to play faster and more intensity.
Yes, Matic is slow and has caused us conceding goals from midfield as he failed to track the runners. Mou probably has seen this too as he has played Fellaini much deeper behind Matic earlier in the season. Issue with Matic is more of a defense problem rather than attack IMO. We need to transition the ball from defense to attack much quicker. I thought that is the reason why we bought Lindelof but it seems we are not really utilizing him much for this task.
Yes, Matic is slow and has caused us conceding goals from midfield as he failed to track the runners. Mou probably has seen this too as he has played Fellaini much deeper behind Matic earlier in the season. Issue with Matic is more of a defense problem rather than attack IMO. We need to transition the ball from defense to attack much quicker. I thought that is the reason why we bought Lindelof but it seems we are not really utilizing him much for this task.
I know Mourinho would never do this. But what would you people think of Phil Jones playing as CDM instead of Matic? I remember SAF using him as a midfielder on several occasions, and he wasn’t that bad.
I’ve never been his biggest fan but I do think he’s not 100% physically fit at the moment. He had that surgery at the start of the season and came right back into the team. He might be still managing the recovery.
What’s the point? He can’t stay fit!
He is so poor.
Absolute Liability. Slow to attack and ball watching for the goal.
It's pretty apparent why he was sold by Chelsea.
It's pretty apparent why he was sold by Chelsea.
But, but all those ‘knowledgeable posters’ that called everyone ‘clueless’ that didn’t want him said he was amazing.
Useless in every department today
Shite on the ball, lazy, too tired, or too slow to defend. What is his purpose? 5 players I'd rather play in his position than him at the moment but Mourinho's absolutely oblivious to it.
Absolutetly terrible player these days, should be fined for his lack of interest and lazines.
He has his role when it's limited and when he isn't being run to the ground by a blindly trusting and clueless manager. It's a fecking traversy a dinosaur like him him plays so much, starts all the games, finishes them all. He has no worries about his starting, no pressure to play well. He can do whatever the feck he wants because Jose is his bitch
He was really good last season but he's just fallen off the cliff alarmingly.
It’s a joke. Plenty who actually watch him didn’t want him and could see he was completely past it but the Top Reds called us all clueless. He’s a squad player at the absolute very most. He’s been atrocious bar his first few months here.
I’m a fan of Matic but he’s been horrid today - ball watching for the Gundogan goal - slowing down attacks too much even in their box
you must have a hard life. So full of insight, but without an audience who cares. Such a tragic waste.Honestly I wasn't one of them, I was happy with him but when you see that he plays every game, no matter how fit he is, no matter how shit he is, he never gets subbed off, you gotta wonder wtf is the manager doing ? This season, he has an ankle surgery after the WC, he gets thrown back vs Spurs, with zero preseason and we lose 3-0 with him being embarassed by Lucas Moura for one their goals.
Enough is fecking enough with Matic, players should deserve their playing time and he's way past his sell-by date
Hes not just a reason we can't build from the back. The guy literally is giving away the ball like candy constantly and watching players go past him for fun.
You’re right I have a big audience, great life and fab insight. Learn from me and you’ll be learning from the best kiddo.
Can't defend, doesn't have the awareness of around him, can't hold the ball & slow. He's been passenger & just ball watching. I'm not blaming him for the loses that we got but he's been involved with a lot of goals that we conceded, Newcastle's Kenedy goal, Chelsea last minute goal, Dybala's goal, & now Gundogan's goal. Remind me of Schneiderlin where he always stop following his man and was just ball watching all the time. And in addition that he doesn't have the ability to pass the ball like Carrick put a question mark what does he offer in the team now? Fellaini offers more.
40m on Matic, 50m on Fred & 30m on Herrera and still can't find Carrick's replacement.
40m on Matic, 50m on Fred & 30m on Herrera and still can't find Carrick's replacement.
Forget attacking. He's a nothing player while defending. Players are getting past him like he's nothing. He's one of the main culprits of our terrible defensive record.
Must be dropped for the rest of the season and now. Feck me even playing without a DMF will look better.
Must be dropped for the rest of the season and now. Feck me even playing without a DMF will look better.
67th minute not putting that ball back in to Martials path and instead playing a stupid ball to Rashford that ended up going out. Does this way way too many times in games and then on the opposite end Lindelof tells him and points to Gundogan twice telling Matic that’s his man and Matic just lets him walk off him.
I wanted him, thought he would be better suited to us more so than Fabinho but since this time last year I realised I was very wrong. He just isn’t cutting it.
Another thing the amount of times he left Shaw to deal with 2 was criminal.
I wanted him, thought he would be better suited to us more so than Fabinho but since this time last year I realised I was very wrong. He just isn’t cutting it.
Another thing the amount of times he left Shaw to deal with 2 was criminal.
Simply cannot be a better option than Pereira.
We bought him last season and now he looks like he's 1-2 years away from his retirement. Whoever being brainwashed by Jose that we need more washed up 29 years old footballers in the team need to have a word with themselves
What annoyed me the most was Matic could have dumped a giant shit on the field and Jose'd still play him next game
What annoyed me the most was Matic could have dumped a giant shit on the field and Jose'd still play him next game
Last edited:
When people used to call Carrick the crab...this guy is crab from a fecking tin. His passing is atrocious.
Very limited player who looks completely past it. No other top team in the league would have any interest in him.
So I assume we will mot see many more "uh huh huh, green smiley, 29 is the new 49" "turns 60 next year hehehehe" sarcasm on the caf anymore next time some people have doubts about the age of a player in the transfer forum?
Rvp, Matic, Sanchez, Vidic, Rio and more have proven that there is indeed a physical and/or mental decline in or soon after the late 20s early 30s for most players.
Ronaldo and Ibra have skewed perceptions on here but are actually more the exception to the rule.
Rvp, Matic, Sanchez, Vidic, Rio and more have proven that there is indeed a physical and/or mental decline in or soon after the late 20s early 30s for most players.
Ronaldo and Ibra have skewed perceptions on here but are actually more the exception to the rule.
He runs around and occasionally gets his foot to the ball. At least he's doing the 2nd part because early in the season it was just the first part. But we clearly cant depend on him to mark and defend well.