Is Matic a big reason why we can't build attacks?

Adam-Utd

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So as we know, he's having a poor season so far.

Against Newcastle he looked very slow, dithered on the ball and got tackled/intercepted many times.

He's in charge of building our play from the back, and he's doing a poor job, he just doesn't move or pass the ball fast enough.

As soon as he was moved into defence in the 2nd half, our play rose dramatically. While you can argue that was mainly because Newcastle sat back and tried to hold on, we also pressured them back and won the ball higher up the pitch than usual.

When I think back to the start of the season, we played Fred,Pereira and Pogba. While this midfield wasn't perfect we certainly got the ball forward better and created more chances.

Jose then decided to drop Pereira for Fellaini, and we continued playing well.

Matic was then brought back into the team, and since then we've struggled.

Jose seems to play him every match whether he's good or bad, and his current form is detrimental to the team.
 
Adam-Utd said:
So as we know, he's having a poor season so far.

Against Newcastle he looked very slow, dithered on the ball and got tackled/intercepted many times.

He's in charge of building our play from the back, and he's doing a poor job, he just doesn't move or pass the ball fast enough.

As soon as he was moved into defence in the 2nd half, our play rose dramatically. While you can argue that was mainly because Newcastle sat back and tried to hold on, we also pressured them back and won the ball higher up the pitch than usual.

When I think back to the start of the season, we played Fred,Pereira and Pogba. While this midfield wasn't perfect we certainly got the ball forward better and created more chances.

Jose then decided to drop Pereira for Fellaini, and we continued playing well.

Matic was then brought back into the team, and since then we've struggled.

Jose seems to play him every match whether he's good or bad, and his current form is detrimental to the team.
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He was awful Saturday. Had a great three or four games when he first signed. Since then he's been very overrated. Very slow, takes too many touches then plays it in the same direction he's just kicked it in four times ! Just do one bigger kick ffs !
 
He doesn't help. An issue we have is that Pogba will often drop back to pick up the ball from the centre backs, which should mean Matic pushes up to add numbers to the attack but he doesn't really do that. But if Pogba doesn't drop back Matic/ our centre backs can't usually find him from deep.
 
I don't really think it is a singular problem. If there was calmness in the defense behind him, I think Matic would have been much more calmer.
Yes, Matic has been in bad form. But he is not a main reason.
 
For me he's the player that should shield the CBs, we'll always need at least one player in that role and IMO he's ahead of Fellaini.

We have better options for the positions further forward, Andreas and Herrera the most obvious
 
He's certainly having a poor spell, but I thought he was good last season generally speaking. I wouldn't want to write him off quite yet.

The slowness of our play is not down to him alone and I think part of the reason he is so slow to release the ball is lack of options. Pogba does exactly the same thing, but he's much better at shielding the ball and has clever feet which allows him to get away with it more. The lack of movement has so many negative knock-on effects to other areas of our play.
 
He's certainly a ditherer but when your options include Smalling and Bailly not really wanting it, Valencia offering nothing going forward, and Fellaini and Lukaku standing like lamp posts I do feel sorry for him a bit and can see why he might have to take his time to find the right option. We don't attack as a team and our movement is pathetic. He undoubtedly does have to raise his game considerably though, just like everyone else
 
He takes to many touches. He is in such a key position, he takes the ball deep and most of the play starts with him but he holds on to the ball far too long. By the time he lets it go the opposition are back into their defensive formation.

He doesn't look forward enough, he doesn't close down quick enough....I dont know if its age or form but he just looks slow ponderous at the moment, as does most of the team but he is the one controlling the tempo of our play and think this is where some of our issues lie. Would like to see Fred in there as he has a bit of dynamism about him which the team really lacks.
 
Adam-Utd said:
So as we know, he's having a poor season so far.

Against Newcastle he looked very slow, dithered on the ball and got tackled/intercepted many times.

He's in charge of building our play from the back, and he's doing a poor job, he just doesn't move or pass the ball fast enough.

As soon as he was moved into defence in the 2nd half, our play rose dramatically. While you can argue that was mainly because Newcastle sat back and tried to hold on, we also pressured them back and won the ball higher up the pitch than usual.

When I think back to the start of the season, we played Fred,Pereira and Pogba. While this midfield wasn't perfect we certainly got the ball forward better and created more chances.

Jose then decided to drop Pereira for Fellaini, and we continued playing well.

Matic was then brought back into the team, and since then we've struggled.

Jose seems to play him every match whether he's good or bad, and his current form is detrimental to the team.
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Not sure why you bring this up? Is it because you feel this limited how much he actually saw the ball?

Only thing I will say about Matic is for a DM I wish he'd sit in front of the defence and let Pogba and those ahead of him get involved in the build up. At the moment Matic plays as much of a CM as Pogba and Fellaini do and that's what giving attackers a free run at our defence
 
Yes and no.
  • His insistence on always being on the door step of the CB to get the ball, but he also does this because our CB are lacking too much in ball playing skills.
  • Taking forever on the ball before releasing it. This also is his fault,but at the same time not. Our other MF players rarely are in position to receive the ball. Everyone retreats towards the CBs when the ball is in defence.
  • He plays way too deep, also his fault but on the flip, not his fault. The lack of trust on the backline forces the situation and opposition teams are able to pin us back therefore no attack happens

So yes, he is part of the problem in us failing to build an attack, but I wouldn't say he is the biggest issue.
 
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Matic, Fellaini and Pogba take way too many touches. Two of them dont have the passing range and the other always wants to fecking play a killer pass

We lack a Carrick/Scholes/Keane who can see and play that early pass.

Not until much later many fans took for granted Carrick

Let the ball do the work. Keep it simple
 
I actually don't think Matic is that slow, running wise - he accelerates quite well through midfield with the ball at his feet, and he also tracks runners reasonably well. I'd say he's at least as mobile as Carrick was. Not every player has to be Usain Bolt, right @Amar__ ! The problem is that he looks to have such poor awareness at times. He dallies on the ball and you just don't have that amount of time in the PL. Pogba also takes too long on the ball, but at least he looks more purposeful with it. Matic just stops and then loses the ball. He either has to release it quicker, or we need to play someone else instead when we are the team that is set to dominate the match.
 
I don't think you can blame one player but I do believe Mctominay/Fellaini and Matic is defensive overkill.
 
What I don't understand is that lately we have seen Fellaini playing in the DM position but then some how Matic is also on the field. Fellaini has been doing great in that role (to my surprise), so if Fellaini is starting in the DM role and we are playing a 3 man midfield, then Matic shouldn't see the field. Matic is not a box to box player. So it should be Fred or Herrera (if healthy) playing with Pogba...
 
He’s just not that good.
 
It's the positioning of our two defensive midfielders that's the problem. For big chunks of the game they're almost as deep as the centrebacks, and all they do is one two it back and forth because our attackers are being man marked and are too far away. Our defence line needs to be higher and our centre midfield as a whole needs to be closer to our attackers, this is on Mourinho in my opinion. We don't need two defensive midfielders when we're at home against Newcastle FFS.
 
Thought he looked well past it when we were signing him and to be honest, at the time I thought it was a seriously poor signing. He did start well but he's proven my instincts right as time has gone on. Was he ever really that good bar one really outstanding season at Chelsea?
 
While I do think Matic is past his best, I also think you can go through practically every player in the team and ask this question in one regard or another, for instance do we struggle to build attacks because the Mourinho method is to build off the #9 and we have a #9 with a first touch like a lndmine so our attacks constantly fizzle out? Do we struggle to build attacks because whatever front 3 combo we play the movement is so poor and static? Do our attacks struggle because we seem to have so little synergy between our wide players and fullbacks? A lot of it is simply how badly we are coached in attack and this constant playing of both Fellaini and Matic isn't helping as it takes away a lot of mobility and dynamism in midfield, both would be better with Fred or Pereira in there with them .
 
luke511 said:
It's the positioning of our two defensive midfielders that's the problem. For big chunks of the game they're almost as deep as the centrebacks, and all they do is one two it back and forth because our attackers are being man marked and are too far away. Our defence line needs to be higher and our centre midfield as a whole needs to be closer to our attackers, this is on Mourinho in my opinion. We don't need two defensive midfielders when we're at home against Newcastle FFS.
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The funny part about that is its only when we are the ones with the ball.

When we dont have the ball our DMs are rarely in a good starting position to defend between midfield and defense. They're pulled wide, or inside the box turning into another CB who is almost helpless to stop someone shooting from the edge of the box
 
We have Matic and two midfield players. Then we have the two wingers.
So when you divide into the triangles, you have the winger, full back and one modfmidf player triangle on each side.
The opposing full back and their winger and two of their midfield players are up on ours.
Which means their CBs never get turned. They are always in shape and tight.
Unless they get moved about its very difficult to make that pass from midfield.
Matic can take the ball into their half and there is no movement up in front.
His choice is to pass to our full backs or try to make a risky pass to our wingers.
There are only two options. Every one knows this so our passes get covered.
I am not an expert but I saw a lecture by Cruijff who says the movement of the CB, the cm, and striker should always be in cordination
 
If the defence is still leaking goals despite having Matic then WTF we need him for? We might as well go for a CM trio of Fred-Pogba-Herrera.
 
I don't really see what he brings to us anymore. His form has been awful for a good while now. Slow and cumbersome, adds no protection to our defence and just looks like a liability. Probably just in decline and a good example why you don't buy players so old.
 
We are clearly paying him per touch of the ball. No other explanation for why it takes him so long to pass to the nearest red shirt.
 
Judas said:
I don't really see what he brings to us anymore. His form has been awful for a good while now. Slow and cumbersome, adds no protection to our defence and just looks like a liability. Probably just in decline and a good example why you don't buy players so old.
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I wonder if there have been any recent studies done about the "prime years" of a footballer. In American sports, studies have shown "prime years" have shifted earlier in an athlete's career. I remember reading on here about how Matic was still in his prime at 30 and I just saw that and thought there's no way that's true in today's football.
 
Ekeke said:
The funny part about that is its only when we are the ones with the ball.

When we dont have the ball our DMs are rarely in a good starting position to defend between midfield and defense. They're pulled wide, or inside the box turning into another CB who is almost helpless to stop someone shooting from the edge of the box
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I agree, it's madness.
 
Yes. He is so one-footed to play as holding midfielder in a midfield three, because in that position you receive the ball from every angle, so he always takes a lot of touches to accomodate the ball to his left foot. When he plays in a midfield 2, he looks a lot more comfortable on the ball, because there is another player at his rigth receiving the ball from that side. Thats one of the aspects why Carrick is so underrated. He could deliver a good, quick forward pass, from every angle he received the ball.
 
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I actually think that he's a major problem for us. He is slow and cumbersome, doesn't really help us out defensively and attacking threat is non existent. Swap him for Perriera and we would be a lot more fluid.
 
I too think that he was a bit overrated last season but he's only 29/30 isn't he? Players like him shouldn't experience a drop that quickly unless there's an obvious reason. I would much prefer a more mobile midfielder but I don't think he's the main reason why our attacks are so slow. When Fellaini was playing that 3rd centre back role Matic played more as an 8 and I thought he looked good in those games. He moved the ball quickly and was composed in possession. The lack of movement ahead of him is probably one of the key problems in recent games.

I think I would still like to see Herrera, Fred and Pogba as the midfield 3.
 
Pogba Fred Herrera

Save Matic for CL where the pace is usually slower
 
A chronic lack of movement is a bigger reason I'd say. Matic has an excellent passing range but of course he's going to dither on the ball if he has no one to pass to.
 
Yes, takes far too many touches, has a habit of dribbling into crowded areas, losing the ball and starting counters for the opposition. He is also rather ineffective defensively. Would be delighted to see Pereira get a run in that role, something has to be done about the speed of the passing, can't blame it all on the CB's when you have Matic and Pogba dribbling all the time. That is ok if it is a Giggs or even, bloody hell, Anderson driving forward with the ball at speed but Matic is not capable and Pogba gets drawn into showing off how strong he is too often.
 
Needs to be dropped once Ander is back. Ander, Pogba & Fred should be our starting 3. Perreira also needs to start getting into the rotation ahead of Matic.
 
No. It is not Matic. It is not Pogba. It is not Mourinho. It is not formation. It is not rain. It is not Brexit.
We have shit defenders who can't defend so they need 2 defensive midfielders to help them plus defensive tactics and on top of that they don't know how to pass fecking ball so we can't start attacks from the back.
 
Adam-Utd said:
So as we know, he's having a poor season so far.

Against Newcastle he looked very slow, dithered on the ball and got tackled/intercepted many times.

He's in charge of building our play from the back, and he's doing a poor job, he just doesn't move or pass the ball fast enough.

As soon as he was moved into defence in the 2nd half, our play rose dramatically. While you can argue that was mainly because Newcastle sat back and tried to hold on, we also pressured them back and won the ball higher up the pitch than usual.

When I think back to the start of the season, we played Fred,Pereira and Pogba. While this midfield wasn't perfect we certainly got the ball forward better and created more chances.

Jose then decided to drop Pereira for Fellaini, and we continued playing well.

Matic was then brought back into the team, and since then we've struggled.

Jose seems to play him every match whether he's good or bad, and his current form is detrimental to the team.
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Since the beginning of this year, I have been noticing slight things. Remember how we'd complain when Carrick would get caught with the ball between his feet in midfield on occasion?
Been noticing too much of that with Matic recently. Not necessarily for the same reasons.
Sometimes I feel he is totally unaware of what is happening behind him when he either has the ball or is waiting to receive it. Even noticed this happening with his back to the opposition goal instead of ours.
Also I feel his reaction time is too slow for us.
Wished we would start a few games with Fred, Fellaini and Pogba in midfield (with Fellaini instructed to play as DMf).
 
And people compared about Herrera who released the ball almost instantly, able to play a nice through ball when possible straightaway too. It only takes ages for Matic to release it and ages to cover the space. It's clear which palyer is better for our system but Mourinho's friends shall always play. Matic is a great squadie but not an upgrade on Herrera, We should get a different player. It was clear that whoever plays in the four opening games last season will be off to a flying start. We need more players like Fred, Pereira, Herrera who are aggressive players and are able to handle the ball quickly as well as move quickly and press. Obviously won't happen under dinosaur mourinho.
 
He is one of several reasons. But some of the things hes doing other players do when he isnt playing. Like Andreas dropping deep and picking the ball up off the CBs from a few yards away. Chances are the reason other players do it too is because Mourinho has asked them to do it.
 
Rossa said:
I actually don't think Matic is that slow, running wise - he accelerates quite well through midfield with the ball at his feet, and he also tracks runners reasonably well. I'd say he's at least as mobile as Carrick was. Not every player has to be Usain Bolt, right @Amar__ ! The problem is that he looks to have such poor awareness at times. He dallies on the ball and you just don't have that amount of time in the PL. Pogba also takes too long on the ball, but at least he looks more purposeful with it. Matic just stops and then loses the ball. He either has to release it quicker, or we need to play someone else instead when we are the team that is set to dominate the match.
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I am sorry I strongly disagree, that's exactly what he's not good at. He has a big problem tracking a run to the box at set pieces too. He doesn't accelerate quick, he has a long stride but it takes ages before him to turn and start sprinting.

Pogba has obviously all the rights to spend time on the ball, because he rarely loses it even though he can get dispossesed too but he's the main creator of the team, he creates 4-5 chances openings for our team every game from the midfield, you can't have another palyer like Matic doing the same especially when he's by far less creative and skillful then Pogba. I like Matic's strength and ability to keep the ball under pressure but that's not good enough for a modern midfielder, he doesn't need to do that he can play one two with a defender and be in a better position sooner than trying to dribble someone back to the goal and slow the game down. Matic should never replace Herrera
 
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