Is Matic a big reason why we can't build attacks?

Is the current state of the club solely down to one player?

If you are angry and you want to direct that anger at any one person, you should choose the United executive board.

Today showed the gulf in quality between City and us and if I have to be pissed off, I cant be pissed off at the players. They are there because there is no change in personnel. They have not been shipped out and replaced. Smalling, Matic, Young, Valencia, Jones are in the squad and not replaced because the board have not shipped them out.

Until the board decides it's time to put football first then this is what United is going to be going forward. A so so team that has ambitions to fight for top 4.

I cant believe I'm actually saying it but we are a team that is fighting for top 4 and even then this is a long shot with our rivals going from strength to strength.

Matic and the players and manager are the visible scapegoats. Direct your anger and frustration at the executive board.
 
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Just isn’t a fluid enough footballer. Too often he brings the ball back towards where it came from and everything stalls.
 
manunited1919 said:
I know Mourinho would never do this. But what would you people think of Phil Jones playing as CDM instead of Matic? I remember SAF using him as a midfielder on several occasions, and he wasn’t that bad.
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If we're converting a CB, I'd much prefer Lindelof there. He already plays like a CM asked to do a job in defence.

Make Smalling and Bailly first choice at the back.
 
The third goal today was disgraceful.

Every bit of effort every one of our players put into that game to try and get a result was rendered completely pointless because Matic literally couldn't be bothered to move 2 metres.

That moment in itself was bad enoough to turn a 10/10 performance into a 1/10 performance, and he has been consistently closer to the later anyway this season.

It is getting to the point where Jose's loyalty to him will cost him his job. You can't have players pulling shite like that and then carry on picking them. It's showing a lack of respect to the whole team.
 
noodlehair said:
The third goal today was disgraceful.

Every bit of effort every one of our players put into that game to try and get a result was rendered completely pointless because Matic literally couldn't be bothered to move 2 metres.

That moment in itself was bad enoough to turn a 10/10 performance into a 1/10 performance, and he has been consistently closer to the later anyway this season.

It is getting to the point where Jose's loyalty to him will cost him his job. You can't have players pulling shite like that and then carry on picking them. It's showing a lack of respect to the whole team.
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This
 
everything about him is wrong at the moment (passing, intercepting, tackling, attacking), he is our worst player since the start of the season. I was never a fan of his style of ugly play even at his best. But this version of him the Chelsea sold us and gladly got 40 m for is one of the biggest problems right now. I hope he get the boot with his dinosaur manager.
 
Kevin said:
So I assume we will mot see many more "uh huh huh, green smiley, 29 is the new 49" "turns 60 next year hehehehe" sarcasm on the caf anymore next time some people have doubts about the age of a player in the transfer forum?

Rvp, Matic, Sanchez, Vidic, Rio and more have proven that there is indeed a physical and/or mental decline in or soon after the late 20s early 30s for most players.

Ronaldo and Ibra have skewed perceptions on here but are actually more the exception to the rule.
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Hilarious, wasn't it? Anyone that watched him could see he was on a steep decline, yet we were the ones labelled 'clueless' :lol:
 
Matic and Fellaini not helping that is why we bought Fred but Jose failed big time in this too. Now we need a couple of mobile players who can play football fast football alongside Pogba. Man we need an awful lot of things...
 
Waynne said:
Is the current state of the club solely down to one player?

If you are angry and you want to direct that anger at any one person, you should choose the United executive board.

Today showed the gulf in quality between City and us and if I have to be pissed off, I cant be pissed off at the players. They are there because there is no change in personnel. They have not been shipped out and replaced. Smalling, Matic, Young, Valencia, Jones are in the squad and not replaced because the board have not shipped them out.

Until the board decides it's time to put football first then this is what United is going to be going forward. A so so team that has ambitions to fight for top 4.

I cant believe I'm actually saying it but we are a team that is fighting for top 4 and even then this is a long shot with our rivals going from strength to strength.

Matic and the players and manager are the visible scapegoats. Direct your anger and frustration at the executive board.
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Yea i blame our board. How could they not get Mourinho the players to beat Brighton, Westham, walloped at home by Tottenham and struggle against the likes of Derby and Wolves? How could allow the team posses the worst goal difference of the top 10 teams, worse than the likes of..wait for it..Bournemouth, Watford, Everton and Leicester City! Teams that spend 100's of millions buying quality talent every year. What a terrible board! They couldn't get players that could show more attacking intent in a Derby. It's their fault that a United team had only one shot on target in a Derby- a penalty. I blame the board for everything. How can we hold the manager responsible for ways the board has failed him time and time again over 3 years. The board trains the team, drills the tactics and sends them on the pitch on match day, that's why are so bad they stink.
 
As you might have guessed I am a Matic fan, I think the difference he made when he first came into the midfield was enormous he gave Pogba a chance to move forward and play further up the pitch (whether Pogba always did this or was told to do this is debateable).
Matic's best role is as a defensive midfield player. I suspect he's not fully fit after the back injury during the summer, and he isn't a long term solution by any means, but by and large Jose knows what he can expect from Matic on a regular basis, which is more than you can say for the other players, except perhaps De Gea!
 
Maticmaker said:
As you might have guessed I am a Matic fan, I think the difference he made when he first came into the midfield was enormous he gave Pogba a chance to move forward and play further up the pitch (whether Pogba always did this or was told to do this is debateable).
Matic's best role is as a defensive midfield player. I suspect he's not fully fit after the back injury during the summer, and he isn't a long term solution by any means, but by and large Jose knows what he can expect from Matic on a regular basis, which is more than you can say for the other players, except perhaps De Gea!
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The problem is he isn't even doing this part, just simply tracking midfield runners seems to be beyond him at the moment
 
I can't remember which ex-Utd player said it, maybe Hargreaves, but he said when he first joined the club and was in training, Keano absolutely blasted him when he played a ball sideways. Apparently Keano had a right go at him for not looking up and playing the ball forward and told him 'You're at Utd, you play the ball forward!!!'. Keano was absolutely right, and Matic was never going to be a Utd player because he doesn't pass forward.
 
I can't remember which ex-Utd player said it, maybe Hargreaves, but he said when he first joined the club and was in training, Keano absolutely blasted him when he played a ball sideways. Apparently Keano had a right go at him for not looking up and playing the ball forward and told him 'You're at Utd, you play the ball forward!!!'. Keano was absolutely right, and Matic was never going to be a Utd player because he doesn't pass forward.
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Yes, but he is a Mourinho player, who plays for Man Utd, & to him he is playing perfectly.
 
AlwaysRed66 said:
Yes, but he is a Mourinho player, who plays for Man Utd, & to him he is playing perfectly.
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Mourinho' saw last season that one of his biggest problems was getting players he could rely on to do the job he wanted, and to do it regularly, Matic, fitted that bill almost completely.

I have said elsewhere, if you compare Matic's consistency now with how it was when he first arrived you can see its starting to become irregular, maybe because of the operation he had on his back, but even 90% fit Jose seems to trust him more than most other players, except perhaps De Gea.

A manager needs at least one player on the pitch who does what he's asked to do, even SAF played Keano at times when his form was up and down because it was vital to have that presence on the pitch. Before everyone starts telling me Keano was much better than Matic, as a player and to the United team at the time, I agree, but beggars can't be chooses and at the moment Mourinho is definitely in the beggars camp
 
His issue is ‘ManchesterUniteditis’ which happened to a number of excellent players when they arrived at OT. Falcao, Schneiderlin, Kagawa and Mkhitaryan to name but four. I don’t know what it is, maybe some players can’t handle the club or they just get lazy. Matic is one of them and, it’s looking as if Fred is falling into that trap.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Only @Brwned and the new lad left defending him it seems.
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That's such an odd position to take. I suppose you get some fun out of misrepresenting or misinterpreting reality, but you should really consider why...but for the record I don't think I've mentioned Matic this season, never mind defended him. The truth is much simpler: I give it almost no thought, almost all the time.

If you are for some reason weirdly interested in my view, the truth is I wanted to throw my computer at the TV screen because of Matic on that 3rd goal...one of the few times I've been seriously infuriated in a football game. And he was crap all game. And he's been crap pretty much all season. Not sure whether he's past it or whether he's mentally broken. Both seem plausible given Mourinho mentally broke him last time, and his lethargy - and the perception of it - is oddly reminiscent of Carrick during his depressed period.

If you think he's past it now fair enough. If you think he was past it before he came, also fair enough. I think you need to do some mental gymnastics to still buy into that narrative, given how imposing he was for such a significant chunk of last season...but ignoring that does make it easy to feel vindicated. And feeling vindicated is great, no doubt.

Personally I think we made a good decision to bring him in, in spite of his age and position making a steep decline very possible, and in spite of his bizarre relationship with Mourinho. I also think we made a good decision to bring in yet another midfielder on top of keeping Pereira and Fellaini to lessen the burden on him, considering those risks. Sadly I think Mourinho is unnecessarily brutal with the young players, and whoever it was between him and the C-suite chose the wrong midfielder.

I totally agree with the OP here. I think that was always one of his weak points but it's gotten even weaker in this environment and with the disappearance of many of his other very useful qualities. I suppose it's good someone finds a positive in that. Probably not so good it boosts their online ego, but hey we live in a weird world.
 
Although coaching plays a very big part, something our coach barely looks like he is doing, the holding midfielder is so vital to building play from the back. A quick turn in midfield, a first time pass, a quick burst, passes through the lines are things you should expect from a holding midfielder if a team have even the slightest intent of playing out of the defence. One big problem is that Matic is capable of none of those. You'd excuse him if he did his fair share of defensive duties, but he doesn't and right now, he's a passenger and we basically play games with ten men.
He doesn't protect the defence nor aid the build up and he is not a monster on the air either, what is he then meant to be doing?
 
Ban said:
You're on some kind of crusade here?
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That would be you on your Mourinho crusade. You managed to bring him up in a thread about the new Leicester manager I see when literally no one else had :lol:

As for Matic, I was just pointing how how right I was. No harm done you can learn from me.
 
Robbie Boy said:
That would be you on your Mourinho crusade. You managed to bring him up in a thread about the new Leicester manager I see when literally no one else had :lol:

As for Matic, I was just pointing how how right I was. No harm done you can learn from me.
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:lol:
Sure, mate, sure.
Go on with your witch hunt if it makes you happy.
 
He is responsible but he's not the only one. To build attacks, we need to have centre-backs who are not afraid of the ball. Smalling, Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Rojo are all terrible. Every time, the ball comes to their feet, they either hoof it or give it back to De Gea who always loses it. By the way, DDG's distribution is also one of the reasons why we can't attack right now.

To come back to Matic, this year he should not be playing this much, it's totally on Mourinho. This year, even Fellaini is better as DM than him and Pereira should be given another chance before he leaves.
 
I think the problem is mourinhos tactics and player selection. There are too many technically good players coming here and failing for it to be anything else really. Pogba, Sanchez, mikhitaryan. Those are/were the players who would be generating fluid attacks if the manager wasn't hostile to that kind of play.
 
Robbie Boy said:
:lol:
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:lol: Indeed. He was trying to be clever and failed big time and to save face he acted like you were the one who got riled. Some people just overestimate their own intelligence when in reallity they are just another avarage joe on the internet.

On topic, I thought Matic had a few good months when he joined but something just isnt working for him atm. Maybe he needs a bit of rest. I would love to see Mourinho give Pereira a few games in Matics role. Nothing to lose with that move imo.
 
Peter Larsson said:
:lol: Indeed. He was trying to be clever and failed big time and to save face he acted like you were the one who got riled. Some people just overestimate their own intelligence when in reallity they are just another avarage joe on the internet.

On topic, I thought Matic had a few good months when he joined but something just isnt working for him atm. Maybe he needs a bit of rest. I would love to see Mourinho give Pereira a few games in Matics role. Nothing to lose with that move imo.
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Aye, I think he ended up wumming himself in the end, the poor ouel soul.

Yeah, tbf he started well here and that's when I thought that maybe he just needed a fresh challenge and had gone somewhat stale at Chelsea. However, his poor form has been going on for far too long now and there's absolutely no reason why Pereira isn't getting a chance. Given how poor Matic has been - as you said - there's absolutely nothing to lose giving the kid a chance.
 
Brwned said:
That's such an odd position to take. I suppose you get some fun out of misrepresenting or misinterpreting reality, but you should really consider why...but for the record I don't think I've mentioned Matic this season, never mind defended him. The truth is much simpler: I give it almost no thought, almost all the time.

If you are for some reason weirdly interested in my view, the truth is I wanted to throw my computer at the TV screen because of Matic on that 3rd goal...one of the few times I've been seriously infuriated in a football game. And he was crap all game. And he's been crap pretty much all season. Not sure whether he's past it or whether he's mentally broken. Both seem plausible given Mourinho mentally broke him last time, and his lethargy - and the perception of it - is oddly reminiscent of Carrick during his depressed period.

If you think he's past it now fair enough. If you think he was past it before he came, also fair enough. I think you need to do some mental gymnastics to still buy into that narrative, given how imposing he was for such a significant chunk of last season...but ignoring that does make it easy to feel vindicated. And feeling vindicated is great, no doubt.

Personally I think we made a good decision to bring him in, in spite of his age and position making a steep decline very possible, and in spite of his bizarre relationship with Mourinho. I also think we made a good decision to bring in yet another midfielder on top of keeping Pereira and Fellaini to lessen the burden on him, considering those risks. Sadly I think Mourinho is unnecessarily brutal with the young players, and whoever it was between him and the C-suite chose the wrong midfielder.

I totally agree with the OP here. I think that was always one of his weak points but it's gotten even weaker in this environment and with the disappearance of many of his other very useful qualities. I suppose it's good someone finds a positive in that. Probably not so good it boosts their online ego, but hey we live in a weird world.
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Aye, the third goal was bloody disgraceful.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Aye, the third goal was bloody disgraceful.
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If I was De Gea I'd be tempted to punch him! He just looked completely devoid of spirit at that point. Totally unforgivable at such a critical moment. We can't know what it's like working in the kind of environments Mourinho creates... but I can't think of any reason why we were feeling hopeless at that point. We had a chance for fecks sake!
 
Brwned said:
If I was De Gea I'd be tempted to punch him! He just looked completely devoid of spirit at that point. Totally unforgivable at such a critical moment. We can't know what it's like working in the kind of environments Mourinho creates... but I can't think of any reason why we were feeling hopeless at that point. We had a chance for fecks sake!
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I actually thought we would get an undeserved draw when Martial got one back but it went to total shit after that. At this stage though with Matic, I just see no purpose in him playing whatsoever. As someone alluded to earlier on, there would be zero risk with giving Perreira a chance given how poor Matic has been. As a squad player, he would be worth keeping around due to his experience and the fact that he could technically still be useful in certain games but continuing to start him is criminal.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I actually thought we would get an undeserved draw when Martial got one back but it went to total shit after that. At this stage though with Matic, I just see no purpose in him playing whatsoever. As someone alluded to earlier on, there would be zero risk with giving Perreira a chance given how poor Matic has been. As a squad player, he would be worth keeping around due to his experience and the fact that he could technically still be useful in certain games but continuing to start him is criminal.
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I think so too. Even if he's not ok with taking a risk on Pereira he should be behind the often hapless Fred and much maligned Fellaini. That said I understand why managers have their favourites. Doesn't make it less annoying!
 
Brwned said:
I think so too. Even if he's not ok with taking a risk on Pereira he should be behind the often hapless Fred and much maligned Fellaini. That said I understand why managers have their favourites. Doesn't make it less annoying!
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It's well and good to have favorites but wondering if Jose will ever drop Matic. If any player plays so poorly every week, they would be on the bench and even out of playing squad.
 
roonster09 said:
It's well and good to have favorites but wondering if Jose will ever drop Matic. If any player plays so poorly every week, they would be on the bench and even out of playing squad.
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I honestly wonder whether he's overcompensating for what happened at Chelsea. He was brutal in a way I don't think even he can justify on reflection. He was clearly in a bad place.
 
Brwned said:
I honestly wonder whether he's overcompensating for what happened at Chelsea. He was brutal in a way I don't think even he can justify on reflection. He was clearly in a bad place.
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Worst part is, it's not helping anyone. Player is getting even worse.
 
Smalling and Lindelof are at it also, Passing the ball across the Backline and back to De Gea. I wouldn't put all the blame on Matic either, The midfielders in front of him should be moving into space to take a pass. There seems to be a big hole in the middle of the field in every game.
 
Play Lindelof instead of Matic and bring back Bailley as a CB.
 
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