Difference is PSG had paid 222m euros for Neymar. It was a weird period. Barca were desperate. I'm sure clubs are well aware of the monumental mistake they made. Also if we had been successful these past few years, clubs would be more forthcoming.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
So basically, McTominay is a better player. Perhaps we need to be concerned about Real coming in for him instead.
This is true. We seen it last season. Pogba was on fire during the initial run with Ole, but he was neutered significantly without the correct support around him. When we started dropping like flies around Wolves & when PSG man-marked him out of the game at OT by starving his support line, the two main examples. So through no fault of his own, his performance level was impacted heavily. Not the kind of risks you want to be having on a £150m player.
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You are mixing the potential market value which would be determined by the buyer with the evaluation of the worth of that investment for the buyer when he uses the newly purchased asset. Basically I'm talking about a sort of VORP and in this case the replacement player would be the lesser alternative on the market like for example Van De Beek for 60m.
Id rather have McT in our side than Pogba.
McT doesn’t look as good on a YouTube highlights clip but will likely perform against Watford on Sunday whereas who knows which version of Pogba will decide to turn up (fitness permitting).
The only issue being that McTominay has been inconsistent this season like pretty much everyone else and has been below par in most of the games against bottom half teams like the rest of the team.
As much as I think he's a disruptive influence when he wants to be and his agent is an absolute scumbag, I would find it pretty horrendous to be selling him for about what we paid or just a bit more. If this really helps put pressure on the club to get more professional and ambitious, great.
McT can reliably function on his own to his level within a dysfunctional setup. Someone like Pogba cannot. That's the difference. It's not a fair comparison as they are judged by different standards anyway.
Because we are more likely to be dysfunctional than fully functional (it has been the case for years now), that is why you rely on McT.
If we had a fully functional setup with the proper support available, would you still take McT over Pogba?
McTominay doesn’t play well every game either. We just say ‘wasn’t his best game today but I love his attitude’ or ‘was a little sloppy with his passing today (again) but...’
If the bar was your regular Scott McTominay performance, I imagine you would be a lot happier with Paul Pogba on a weekly basis. This stuff about losing possession and loose passing - go and check McTominay’s stats. He does it more than Pogba, who despite this growing implying that he can barely pass a ball, gives it away less than all his teammates.
The point is, McTominay is more likely to play to HIS best than Pogba is. Thatbis a skewed metric. He is less likely to play better than Pogba, which in fairness to him, he is not expected to. If Pogba put in the same performances as Scott, people would moan about his giving the ball away far more than they do now.
I don’t want to turn this into some sort of assault on Scott anyway, they are held to very different standards, and he’s doing well by his standards, but not by Paul Pogba’s.
It’s a really difficult question to answer because we don’t know. The Pogba we have seen in a Utd shirt sometimes looks great - world class even - and at other times looks extremely poor, when he’s the latter he’s a liability to the team and makes costly mistakes.
McT without a doubt hasn’t got the raw ability or quality of Pogba, but his commitment can’t be questioned so for me I’d prefer a player who’s committed and always gives everything over one that turns in a performance every so often.
Fair comments and good points.
They both make mistakes/loose passes etc but i find it easier to forgive when it’s down to ability rather than effort.
My main point is that for me personally, if only one of them is fit/available this weekend my preference is McT.
Your entitled to your opinion. I suspect there is a fair chance you will be back on here bemoaning another draw on the basis that we lacked the quality to beat Watford. We do that by having better players than them, which we are expected to. In my opinion, McTominay could easily be wearing a Watford shirt instead and nobody would say anything.
If it were a game against a side where we have none of the football, then I may be inclined to agree with you. That said, I would like us to move away from going into games where we expect to have much less of the football, but that is where we are now. I see McTominay as a player who makes us harder to beat, and I see Pogba as one who makes it easier to win. If anything, Sunday is a game I see for him. But each to their own view of course.
That’s what he means. Raniola basically said United think commercially and need to stop using Pogba as marketing tool and build a team that can win things.
Oh please...
I can't take you seriously after saying that it never happened! So will not bother replying to you again. Seems you are a fanboi and I have triggered you by not agreeing with your opinion, Sorry man...Yeah he's the greatest, hardest working player for Utd and you are lucky to have him...he deserves to be worshipped! Btw we know that players give the ball away, and when they do I wanna see him busting a gut to get the thing back like James does, like McTom does, like proper hardworking pro's do...not just stand there waving his arms around in fustration, even if it is at himself...there is no room for that at Utd, you mess up thats Ok, just make sure you react instantly to try your best to fix the mistake. Not rocket science!Funny, Rash was on penalty duties the previous games and looked as though he was going to take it until Pogs started throwing his weight around. Everyone commented on it at the time, even Ole, but Ole being his diplomatic self papered over it but it was unmistakable that he shouldn't have done that. I watch him play you can run round all day and cover lots of ground, but if he's not doing it at the right times i.e when he is dispossed then whats the point?
No, I am not saying he needs to win games single handedly. I am saying he needs to be busting a gut for the team. Scott McTom takes the game by the scruff of the neck, he puts in an incredible effort and it rubs off on players. Same with James, Bissaka, Rashford ect. Utd need guys like Pogba to set the bar in this respect. He is the best player. He was the leader on the pitch that these young lads look to for inspiration, he needs to step up and inspire them through his sheer will and determination to make things better. This is what makes the great players great and what makes them legends!
This is my point. He is very capable of being an amazingly fanstastic player and one of the best players in the world and has the skillset to remembered as a legend in the same way as Scholes and Keane...but it's no good just playing to that level
when he can be arsed. When the chips are down this is when you need your top guys to rally the troops and inspire them to be better.
The fact remains Utd this season look a much better team who are up for a fight without Pogba. Everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. I hope he has taken note of this while he has been out. I really hope he has reset his attitude, comes back with a fresh mentality and gives his everything for the club and shows everyone that he really is the ultimate midfielder in the world. I don't hate him, like is trying to be made out. I think hes a good player...but he could be so much better!
You haven't triggered me, I didn't even realize that what you said was supposed to trigger anyone, it's simply doesn't fit with reality. And no Pogba isn't perfect, he is quite obviously flawed which is something that no one has disputed.Oh please...
Rambling... chose the right username at least.
All things we want to see happen ourselves. It's ironic that Raiola is the one calling the board out on the clubs ambitions and not our so called legends who can't keep their mouths shut otherwise.
Look at the amount of experience lost these past 2 years alone.
Departures 18/19: Blind, Fellaini, Carrick.
Departures 19/20: Herrera, Lukaku, Smalling, Valencia, Sanchez, Darmian.
Arrivals 18/19: Fred.
Arrivals 19/20: Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, James.
Net Spend: £63.5m avg.
Man City Net spend 19/20 as champions past 2 years: £90m.
It's plain to see. No wonder we are where we are.
Departures 18/19: Blind, Fellaini, Carrick.
Departures 19/20: Herrera, Lukaku, Smalling, Valencia, Sanchez, Darmian.
Arrivals 18/19: Fred.
Arrivals 19/20: Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, James.
Net Spend: £63.5m avg.
Man City Net spend 19/20 as champions past 2 years: £90m.
It's plain to see. No wonder we are where we are.
Club ex legends on TV are a bunch of hypocrites
Yep. I go out of my way to not hear them. Much prefer the American coverage. Amazon introducing the silent matches was especially bliss.
There is a way he could shut every one up. Perform on the pitch consistently and everyone will be singing his praise.
I try to keep civil but your a joker, I’ve noticed your a pogbaista - I’ve been over 500 hundred games home away and abroad so don’t even go there.Its funny how the “non toxic” turn toxic
You ain’t a real fan...
Do you know where Manchester is?
Silent games, as in no commentary? Sounds perfect. Is this a setting within the Amazon coverage?
Yeah, they had a 'Stadium FX' setting which was stadium noise only. It was found where you would normally find the sound options on the amazon tv app.
Yea right
He had the most productive season of his career, helped extend the reign of a manager he had fallen out with with his play a few times and was voted into the PL team of the year by his fellow players yet ended the season with him getting verbally abused off the OT pitch
Seems there's not much he can do keep from being scapegoated in the eyes of many, the vitriol some have for him comes off as more personal than anything quite often
Why do people keep saying it’s personal, he’s been crap for what we paid and what he gets paid, that was before this season where he has took the piss.Yea right
He had the most productive season of his career, helped extend the reign of a manager he had fallen out with with his play a few times and was voted into the PL team of the year by his fellow players yet ended the season with him getting verbally abused off the OT pitch
Seems there's not much he can do keep from being scapegoated in the eyes of many, the vitriol some have for him comes off as more personal than anything quite often
Why is everyone in this thread speaking in such absolutes and extremes? He’s not the best player in our history nor is he the worst. He’s also not a complete cnut which some seem to believe. He’s such a polarising player it’s a bit stupid to be honest.
They perform completely different roles. Pogba replaces Lingard/Pereira and the team greatly improves.
Because people have been allowing their buttons to be pushed ever since he joined. Hes never been outside our best 3 performers since he came but people outside the club who know nothing about his personality, professionalism etc know that they can get attention by talking about him.
As far as I can see all he's really ever done is make one bad comment in an interview in Japan about being open to a new challenge. It not even unusual in the modern game. Other than that his crime seems to be his gait and style of play which to me looks completely inherent.
People have lost their minds when it comes to Pogba. Its become highly emotive for some people. But the narrative behind most of it seems to be an invention. 90% of opinions on him seem laced with projection. Very odd.
He really is the living embodiment of that old United fan adage, 'Hated, Adored, Never Ignored'
He's somehow become an even more polarizing player than a proven cnut like Neymar
If Scott were to try and perform Pogba's creative role you'd want him sold tomorrow. Luckily they are supposed to play together, not replace one another.
Not scored a goal from open play since last February for club or country and people talk about him being balloon door - very very odd
The thought of him coming into a much more solid midfield than the one he left is exciting.
McT Fred
Pogba
This could be excellent If we could manage to keep it together consistently
McT Fred
Pogba
This could be excellent If we could manage to keep it together consistently
Who did that?
Edit: What a misleading timeframe to choose btw. That's what 2-3 months of football. Most of it in a team that was riddled with fitness and confidence issues. He was brilliant in January and February but you leave that out.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. People are emotional about Pogba and willing to distort and twist to be right. Can we stop pretending he's been crap or amazing. The truth is in between.
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Poster 1: Pogba bad
Poster 2: why?
Poster 1: >:^(
Poster 2: why?
Poster 1: >:^(
There was a thread after we beat Chelsea
right, and we have babies like you contributing positively to the conversation
so refreshing
For how long? Until two bad games in a row and all that went before will be forgotten. In fact, the whole season will be written off as a disappointment. The same will happen with Martial, and mark my words, Fred will go back to being rubbish soon too, after only a couple of games. There is a group of players who have much shorter string, and are generally warmed to grudgingly. There are others who the poor/average performances are excused within minutes, so that by the time a good one comes, the narrative will not be ‘one good game’.
Nobody will sing Pogba’s praises unless United are great again. Regardless of his own personal form, he will be considered underwhelming so long as United are where they are.
He’s not a fecking striker is he? Not to mention he’s missed a lot of football since February (yes, due to him not caring bla bla). He’s created many big chances since then, he’s in the team to help out with goals, not be the team’s leading scorer, which he was last season.
Would be great to keep him in his prime.
The trouble with him is that he doesnt suit being our star player. He polarises opinion too much. Other players need to take the focus.
The trouble with him is that he doesnt suit being our star player. He polarises opinion too much. Other players need to take the focus.