Is Pogba being misused by Mourinho ?

[Rafateria]

I'm almost never in this forum but this question is being raised on more and more non-United forums. Clearly Pogba is not playing the £90m (Scholes' quote) as the world class player you expected to be signing .. so what is wrong since it's clear he has the ability but not it's not being applied (either by the player or in the correct way by the manager) ?

So, is Pogba being misused by Mourinho ? And if so what needs to change and will it ?

Watch the video first before replying (Scholes on Pogba) :

 

[M Bison]

It’s a 2 way street, Pogba needs to do more than stroll around and play Hollywood balls.

He should be influencing the game all over the pitch like KDB or Silva do.

He looked lazy yesterday and was arrogant enough to think he could coast through the game.

He needs to improve his work rate significantly.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

No, he has no players around him that are close to or at his level to make the most of what he offers and brings to the table.

He’s not a player that can single handily take over a match. He’s a creative playmaker and needs at least 1 or 2 world class players in front/around him so his talents don’t go to waste. As of yet, United still haven’t surrounded him or/and the team with that personnel and it shows with him not being able to fully tap into his toolbox.

...just look at what he does on United vs when he’s on international duty with France - same player but a night and day difference. Now he doesn’t need an entire XI of world class players either but just give him a couple and you’ll see the best version of Pogba. Until then, just going to have to deal with it as mentioned, he can’t single handily carry United. Just not possible.

 

[Bojan11]

Do what Mancini did with Yaya.

Just play him behind the striker and get him in the box if we gonna whip in crosses.

Just remove the defensive shackles.

 

[Kostur]

He could probably do with a midfield three and play a #8 there but we'd need a third world class midfielder for that I guess, we don't have that option.

 

[Ban]

I'm almost never in this forum but this question is being raised on more and more non-United forums. Clearly Pogba is not playing the £90m (Scholes' quote) as the world class player you expected to be signing .. so what is wrong since it's clear he has the ability but not it's not being applied (either by the player or in the correct way by the manager) ?

So, is Pogba being misused by Mourinho ? And if so what needs to change and will it ?

Watch the video first before replying (Scholes on Pogba) :

I've put the same video in his performance thread.

I think he should be used closer to goal or if he's deep he should be in a midfield 3 or have a better AM than Mata, Lingard of Mickhi. Or have a system around him of some sort.
Scholes has said some good points. Also as Hargreaves said he's good at everthing but not brilliant in one thing. We could get so much more from him.
Also somtimes he's his own worst enemy, when he wants to do too much. Or is too relaxed. Like yesterday. He was ok but not more than that, he should have been more brave and try to turn the game around somehow imo. Spraying passes around, hollywood or sideways, isn't enough. Scholes had said he doesn't look as fit as in Juve too which is a good point. Many of our players don't look particulary fit.

 

[Rafateria]

It’s a 2 way street, Pogba needs to do more than stroll around and play Hollywood balls.

He should be influencing the game all over the pitch like KDB or Silva do.

He looked lazy yesterday and was arrogant enough to think he could coast through the game.

He needs to improve his work rate significantly.

Scholes mentions fitness and/or training regime - maybe that's a factor ?

 

[AlwaysTheKop]

He has that arrogance/cockiness/swag to him and his play that can be a good thing, but only in an attacking role. Put him in a CDM role which he’s pretty much been playing and those traits disappear and you get what looks like a frustrated player, strolling around unable to do what he does apart from the odd Hollywood ball here and there that rarely ends with anything.

Move him into that CAM role, unshackle him form any responsibility and let him free, let him do all his tricks, flicks, etc and he'll thrive, he’s the kind of player you have to make believe he’s Gods gift, it’s always been clear with him that’s the kind of personality he is. I’d take captain off him too and give it to De Gea, sure it can boost some players but I think Pogba is the kind of player captaincy would hinder.

 

[JPRouve]

Pogba isn't a plug and play type of player, he needs to be given a strict role, with France he is easily the player that is the more directed by Deschamps. He needs a certain amount of freedom but within a box, if that makes sense.

 

[Rafateria]

No, he has no players around him that are close to or at his level to make the most of what he offers and brings to the table.

He’s not a player that can single handily take over a match. He’s a creative playmaker and needs at least 1 or 2 world class players in front/around him so his talents don’t go to waste. As of yet, United still haven’t surrounded him or/and the team with that personnel and it shows with him not being able to fully tap into his toolbox.

...just look at what he does on United vs when he’s on international duty with France - same player but a night and day difference. Now he doesn’t need an entire XI of world class players either but just give him a couple and you’ll see the best version of Pogba. Until then, just going to have to deal with it as mentioned, he can’t single handily carry United. Just not possible.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I know I'm a Liverpool fan and like to wind United fans up on their players but I still rate Rashford, Martial, Mata, Lingard and Lukaku (on his day). He has the players around him that can take advantage of creativity.

 

[Ban]

We're using as a deep lying CM, he can do that of course but should he be used closer to goal and have more freedom in his play. Maybe with a new CM, whoever he will be, he'll be used in that sense.

 

[Rafateria]

I've put the same video in his performance thread.

I think he should be used closer to goal or if he's deep he should be in a midfield 3 or have a better AM than Mata, Lingard of Mickhi. Or have a system around him of some sort.
Scholes has said some good points. Also as Hargreaves said he's good at everthing but not brilliant in one thing. We could get so much more from him.
Also somtimes he's his own worst enemy, when he wants to do too much. Or is too relaxed. Like yesterday. He was ok but not more than that, he should have been more brave and try to turn the game around somehow imo. Spraying passes around, hollywood or sideways, isn't enough. Scholes had said he doesn't look as fit as in Juve too which is a good point. Many of our players don't look particulary fit.

Ah I see you've amended / updated your post. I was going to pull you up on your comments re. playing Pogba deep(er). He was bypassed time and again by Southampton yesterday and TBH I can't remember a match where he has played well from deep, he simply shouldn't be put in that position - especially when you have Matic, who should be sitting deeper but yesterday it seemed one had to remain back if the other went forward, almost as if they were a defensive pairing rather than Matic being the anchor he should be, with Pogba part of an offensive/creative pairing in front of him.

 

[Garethw]

He’s being played far too deep. The sooner this bloody 4231 formation fecks off the better!

It’s absolutely bonkers to pay a World record amount for a player and then not put him in a position to get the best out of him. He should be played in a midfield three, with the other two doing all the donkey work.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Of course he’s been used poorly, all of our team is. With Pogba it’s and even worse tradegy tho. He can do pretty much everything on the field except as Scholes said dictate tempo. He needs to be played in a 3 and given a more attacking role. Last year when it was Pogba,Carrick and Herrera it’s the best our midfield has looked and probably the best performances we’ve seen out of Pogba. For whatever reason we’ve decided to ignore that and try and go back to this central 2. Either go back to 433 or 3142 we looked so much better in these shapes and everyone performed better. This 4231 is dragging us down.

 

[settembrini]

Not really. He's a central midfielder playing in central midfield and he is consistently one of our best players.

He would ofc look better if the team around him was more functional but that applies to all our good players except De Gea.

 

[Oldyella]

He’s being played far too deep. The sooner this bloody 4231 formation fecks off the better!

It’s absolutely bonkers to pay a World record amount for a player and then not put him in a position to get the best out of him. He should be played in a midfield three, with the other two doing all the donkey work.

It's baffling we keep playing this formation even though it doesn't work, and just doesn't suit the squad we have. Most annoying part of this recent dip.

 

[VorZakone]

Pogba isn't a plug and play type of player, he needs to be given a strict role, with France he is easily the player that is the more directed by Deschamps. He needs a certain amount of freedom but within a box, if that makes sense.

What do you mean with a strict role?

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I know I'm a Liverpool fan and like to wind United fans up on their players but I still rate Rashford, Martial, Mata, Lingard and Lukaku (on his day). He has the players around him that can take advantage of creativity.

...as I said, no world class players..

Doesn’t help when the attacking players in front and besides him are constantly changing game-to-game, week-to-week, and month-to-month. Simply put United have failed to bite the bullet to acquire such players. José knows that and has become quite vocal about it. Hoping it leads to a change now and there’s no more fecking and cheaping out about. Whether it be the January window or Summer, going to have to get that player to compliment him and develop the United attack.

 

[Ban]

Ah I see you've amended / updated your post. I was going to pull you up on your comments re. playing Pogba deep(er). He was bypassed time and again by Southampton yesterday and TBH I can't remember a match where he has played well from deep, he simply shouldn't be put in that position - especially when you have Matic, who should be sitting deeper but yesterday it seemed one had to remain back if the other went forward, almost as if they were a defensive pairing rather than Matic being the anchor he should be, with Pogba part of an offensive/creative pairing in front of him.

Yeah. When we play 4-2-3-1 they're a midfield pair and it isn't strict in the sense of Matić staying behind playing defensively and Pogba being a b2b CM. They change positions and Pogba is even more behind and deep than Matić. In any case midfield 2 of them is too light and too easy to pass by. Of course he's good/decent in that role but as I said he could do so much more if he had more freedom and he's that kind of a player. Maybe getting a better AM and a winger would help. Sometimes our midfield is too far away from a forward line, there are huge spaces in between.
Personally I think we should play 4-3-3 with Pogba being the most advanced in midfield. Problem is Carrick is out and Ander is out of form so maybe we can do it with a new CM which we need imo. Also for that formation we need a winger, I can't stress enough how much do we need a proper winger.

Also as @Andersons Dietician said we looked pretty good in 3-5-2.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Not fully, but we lack the team effort in attack. Also I think Pogba is best with someone like Carrick, Pirlo or another defensive creative midfielder that can dominate the passing while he can be a more box to box midfielder. Matic is a bit like that, but not creative enough so he gets too deep.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

He needs to be played in his Juventus position, which is left side of a midfield 3, and given instruction to attack. The problem is Herrera is absolutely awful this season so we need a new midfielder. We really are missing Fellaini.

Pogba - New CM
.......Matic

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He’s being played far too deep. The sooner this bloody 4231 formation fecks off the better!

It’s absolutely bonkers to pay a World record amount for a player and then not put him in a position to get the best out of him. He should be played in a midfield three, with the other two doing all the donkey work.

Pretty much. We saw the best of Pogba in that Arsenal game. Even the 3-5-2 would relieve him of his defensive duties thus allowing him to do more work going forward.

 

[ivaldo]

I'm happy with his performances. He is the least of our concerns.

 

[Zoo]

So am I, we have far bigger concerns then Pogba which Scholes should have picked up on instead of going on one of his usual emotional rants. It seems BT only wheel him out when the team is struggling.

 

[Bestietom]

Pogba is better in a 3 man midfield, but the manager is either too stubborn to play this way or he wants the chequebook out again.

 

[Raees]

He needs to play in a midfield which does heavy lifting for him and an attack which does like wise so he can be a luxury if that makes sense.

Modric and Mascherano behind him and an MSN trio in front and you'd get an insane version of Pogba.

In a less talented side, he's probably best in a diamond or CM in a 352, but I just think we signed him with the team in flux and tried to make him into a spine player and he's not that type of player. He's an icing on the cake and not a bricks and mortar player. That is the issue.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Completely agree. He needs to be in the last third of the pitch. His physical and technical abilities are wasted 60 yards from the opposition's goal.

I want to see him beating midfielders and hitting shots from 20 yards.

A midfield 3 with Matic and someone like Oriel Romeu, a combative git of a player. Let them two duke it out in midfield and leave him to play and express himself. If you have two DMC then the full backs can push on and you still have four at the back covering.

Frustrated seeing him so far from goal...

 

[Synco]

I think it's an illusion to expect the team performances to improve significantly by moving Paul Pogba around. He's fine at what he does, and if the team as a whole works better (that's what Juventus was about), his maneuvering room and effectiveness will improve too.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He looked a better player at Juventus. In fact most players we sign looked better at their previous club. That to me is a big concern and can't be put down to coincidence.

 

[GreenHeron]

He needs to play in a midfield which does heavy lifting for him and an attack which does like wise so he can be a luxury if that makes sense.

Modric and Mascherano behind him and an MSN trio in front and you'd get an insane version of Pogba.

In a less talented side, he's probably best in a diamond or CM in a 352, but I just think we signed him with the team in flux and tried to make him into a spine player and he's not that type of player. He's an icing on the cake and not a bricks and mortar player. That is the issue.

This. To use a JM analogy, he's best used as the Frank Lampard in the team. He does a decent job in a midfield two but he is limited. He wants to move ahead of the ball but when he does as part of a midfield two with a back 4 behind him he leaves space behind him, which means he needs to choose between putting the defence under pressure or trying to create from much deeper.

In a midfield three, or with a back 3 behind him, he has much more freedom and it is no surprise that many of his - and United's - best performances have been with a back 3.

On paper, a 3-4-1-2 or a 4-3-3 may look more defensive than a 4-2-3-1 but this is not the case as it truly frees up the front 3 to attack whereas in a 4-2-3-1 the wide players spend far too much time tracking back which leaves us with fewer attacking options.

Pogba of course is that link between defence and attack and if able to fulfil that role has all the attributes to be world class.

Given that we don't have the personnel at present to play 4-3-3 then 3 at the back is surely our best option (especially as we don't have proper wingers and all full backs are better going forward).

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It’s a 2 way street, Pogba needs to do more than stroll around and play Hollywood balls.

He should be influencing the game all over the pitch like KDB or Silva do.

He looked lazy yesterday and was arrogant enough to think he could coast through the game.

He needs to improve his work rate significantly.

Yeah I agree. He's the one player I'd say coasted his way through yesterday's game.

But in general I'd say the issue is that he's being asked to play as a pure CM and he isn't one.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Hopefully another competent CM or DM will come in and Pogba will be able to play similar to Lampard instead of Makalele.

He has more in his locker offensively rather than defensively at the moment. Maybe ones he matured and has more experience, then he can play deeper.

 

[NoLogo]

He needs to be played in his Juventus position, which is left side of a midfield 3, and given instruction to attack. The problem is Herrera is absolutely awful this season so we need a new midfielder. We really are missing Fellaini.

Pogba - New CM
.......Matic

Imagine he had someone like Kanté as his partner. A tireless worker that can also pass a ball and score the odd goal, like Herrera from last season. With Matic behind those two it would free up Pogba to drift around and get forward as much as he wants.

 

[Hoof the ball]

"He has to influence the play like De Bruyne and Silva"

1. Neither have to come back and pick up the ball as deep as Pogba does
2. Both receive the ball to feet, or in front of them on the half-turn in the last third of the pitch
3. City play a possession game which circulates the ball to give those players more touches on the ball

It's such an oversimplification to go, "oh, more effort and inventiveness like those two" without considering the tactical context of the system which they play in.

 

[Minimalist]

My only comment is that he’s not the finished article, not by a long shot. If Mourinho is treating him like he is, he’s going to fail with him.

 

[redIndianDevil]

He is a ball carrier and a pretty good one at that and his passing is just is above average. Pirlo was the brains in that Juve team not Pogba. Our problem is we don't have a Pirlo or Scholes or Modric type player, that's why our transition between defence to attack is slow and ponderous. It's why we are relying on long balls to initiate counter attacks. What happened in that Juventus team was Chiellini or Bonucci will win the ball and will pass it to Pirlo and Pirlo will find Pogba with his amazing passing ability and Pogba will carry the ball forward. Matic's passing is just average, he is good at winning the ball but his passing is not as incisive as even Carrick's passing.

 

[redIndianDevil]

"He has to influence the play like De Bruyne and Silva"

1. Neither have to come back and pick up the ball as deep as Pogba does
2. Both receive the ball to feet, or in front of them on the half-turn in the last third of the pitch
3. City play a possession game which circulates the ball to give those players more touches on the ball

It's such an oversimplification to go, "oh, more effort and inventiveness like those two" without considering the tactical context of the system which they play in.

This a million times. I've seen plenty of people in other threads who think buying Ozil and a RW will fix all our problems suddenly. The reason De Bruyne and Silva are so good is because they have the ball at all times and they are not required to track back so deep to defend.

 

[ash_86]

Apart from 3 at the middle, we need forwards, that make active runs at the top for Pogba to have an effect. Imagine passing to static players standing next to defenders. That's what happening now.

 

[Canagel]

He is playing the 'Pirlo' role trying to distribute and control the tempo and that's not his game. At the moment we have no-one with the quality to play that role so Pogba has to fill in there until we buy another midfielder. Pushing him forward in a 3 man midfield won't help much at present because we lose the ability to play out from deep. Its obvious we need another quality box to box creative midfielder like Lemar or Naingollan to play this system which will bring the best of Pogba. He can't pass to himself can he?

 

[kouroux]

I agree with Scholes regarding his role on the team and what he's asked to do