The problem is Matic isn't the right sort of player to partner him. You either need Pogba and someone else or Pogba + Matic + someone else. Whatever Matic is good at, sitting back and protecting the back line as Pogba players in advance positions, where he would excel, doesn't seem to be one of them. Not necessarily a knock on Matic but if you need a third person to make your two first choice midfielders viable then there's a problem.
Is Pogba being misused by Mourinho ?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
So instead of trying to complement your star signing, arguably best talent in your squad, you would be prepared to sell him just because he seems unable to play in MF 2, despite seeing glimpses of his ability when he's part of MF 3?
If Mourinho opts to sell Pogba, it would be even greater defeat for Mourinho himself considering he insisted on Pogba as his star signing.
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I rather we ship Jose, it's clear as a day he's clueless when it comes to taking the best out of creative players.
It's more because his attitude is shit and he throws a strop and looks useless on the pitch every time something goes wrong. And yeah, with Sanchez here, he isn't the star anymore. Maybe that's upsetting him. But he should deal with it because he certainly hasn't shown anything more then little glimpses here and there in the premier league so far.
A lazy and heartless creative player is lazy and heartless at the end of the day. Creativity and talent is never enough by itself. This is what's wrong with the world and especially the younger generations these days. They want things to be handed to them on a platter. Work for it or you don't deserve it.
Get your point (frustrated with Mou too) but very wary of letting players win in these battles for power with the coach. The only guys who should win those, and do, are Ronaldo and Messi. Pogba is nowhere near that level yet.
Martial - Lukaku - Sanchez
Pogba
Matic Herrera/ McTominay
Def Def Def Def
DDG
I'd like to think this could fix the issue with him. Regardless he still needs to put in a better shift every game. He should be able to trounce the vast majority of players he comes up against.
Pogba
Matic Herrera/ McTominay
Def Def Def Def
DDG
I'd like to think this could fix the issue with him. Regardless he still needs to put in a better shift every game. He should be able to trounce the vast majority of players he comes up against.
Pogba's attitude not withstanding I'm not seeing much evidence of what Duncan Castles is saying on the pitch, one of Mourinho's greatest strengths is his "tactical understanding and his ability to put different formations into place for different opponents and at different times of the game effectively and give his team an edge because of that" where has this been?
Well if you buy someone for £100m. be prepared to give up some ground or use them in their preferred positions as those players, obviously, are going to have huge egos.
Don't try talk sense or use evidence. Jose is clearly evil and won't let Pogba play the 3 inches closer to goal he needs to be a star (despite Pogba actually just doing what he wants anyway).
I think he worked hard enough at Juve for us to splash £100 on him, I mean if you're spending this much money and exposing his weaknesses game in game out with all the pundits and media on his shoulders it will certainly going to get into his head, at the end of the day they're still humans. He will feel let down by Jose and rightly so.
Not working? Or hasn't work yet?
Give him time. He and matic is our only addition to a long dysfunctional midfield. With fellaini leaving and herrera not looking like the player we thought he was it'll limit mourinho option.
Many of us wanted a 3 man midfield but apart from matic and pogba we're still missing one more component from a solid 3 man midfield.
Give him time. He and matic is our only addition to a long dysfunctional midfield. With fellaini leaving and herrera not looking like the player we thought he was it'll limit mourinho option.
Many of us wanted a 3 man midfield but apart from matic and pogba we're still missing one more component from a solid 3 man midfield.
While our tactics and that formation doesn’t suit him at all, it doesn’t give him leeway to stop caring at all on the pitch.
The best thing he can do now is to keep his head down, and start doing the basics right. All his passes don’t have to be world class, just keep things simple. I understand that he might also be going through a dip in form, but he should, even then, do the basics right.
On a side note, this 4231 with Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez and Martial simply doesn’t work. They all like to play in similar positions, and hence, this affects us negatively.
Just one game, I would like to see Sanchez played as the 9, with Martial and Rashford/Lingard/Lukaku in a 433. I think Herrera, given a few chances can come back into form.
The best thing he can do now is to keep his head down, and start doing the basics right. All his passes don’t have to be world class, just keep things simple. I understand that he might also be going through a dip in form, but he should, even then, do the basics right.
On a side note, this 4231 with Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez and Martial simply doesn’t work. They all like to play in similar positions, and hence, this affects us negatively.
Just one game, I would like to see Sanchez played as the 9, with Martial and Rashford/Lingard/Lukaku in a 433. I think Herrera, given a few chances can come back into form.
It’s not an easy situation but in my view Pogba can ask, but not demand. He hasn’t earned that right. But as a matter of being sensible, I do think Pogba should be played in a 3 just to see if it works because the 4231 is not working.
Just to elaborate on what I said. Talent without the ethics and value can of course bring temporary fame or recognition but not sustained success. Look at all the players who have had career-long successes. They are all serial winners who are built at the core of wanting to win but they have all worked hard to stay in that position. The lazy and heartless may find success here and there when they feel happy to do it one season or two and the stars align to have the perfect players in the team to make them shine.
I think Jose has kind of frozen Herrera out as he has barely played this season. It seems so stupid now that we have both Andreas Pereira and TFM on loan as they could have been more than reliable options in midfield. Right now, I'm prepared to even give Lindelof a chance in a role similar to the one that Dier plays for Spurs.
He's not in his best position but should still be doing better.
Yup, we could definitely do with one of them. But for now, I hope he gives Herrera a chance again.
Haha fair enough...I have to remember my audience afterall.
Get Arturo Vidal in the summer and problem solved temporarily. I know he's getting older but he still has a minimum of 2 very good years left. Bayern has told every club of his availability in the summer so he should be relatively cheap (like 30M).
I'm not saying he himself shouldn't improve, ofc it's all just speculation whether there actually is something between them 2, but selling Pogba just like that as some are suggesting would be nothing short of insane.
People take the ridiculous shortcut that Pogba don't want to defend, that's wrong. Instinctively Pogba comeback deep, chases opponents and make loads of tackles, that's something that anyone that has followed him with France and Juventus will acknowledge. The problem with Pogba is somewhere else, @kouroux and I mentioned it a lot to the point where some thoughts that we disliked him but Pogba isn't an intelligent midfielder, he is a reactive and instinctive player, at this point of his career you can't trust him to do anything that requires tactical nous and control, he still plays draughts instead of Chess.
There goes agent P in that case...
In a midfield 3 at Juve, Pogba became a 90m pound rated player. In a midfield 2 at United, he plays like a 40m pound rated player. Play a 3 like United did vs Ajax with Herrera as the destroyer, Matic in the Fellaini role, and Pogba as Pogba.
Sanchez insists on playing LW while knowing full well he's the best and most experienced RW in the team. Nobody is accusing him of being spoilt and throwing toys out of the pram because he refuses to do what's best for the team.
Sanchez insists on playing LW while knowing full well he's the best and most experienced RW in the team. Nobody is accusing him of being spoilt and throwing toys out of the pram because he refuses to do what's best for the team.
Which is why I thought that he was closer to a 40m player than a 90m one. It's like the canvas used by Picasso to paint Guernica, with Guernica the canvas is worth millions but without it it's only worth a handful of euros. So unless you can purchase Pogba with the rest of Juventus's setup or an equivalent of that setup, Pogba's worth declines drastically.
The problem isn't that he can't play as a midfielder, more that he won't. And thats's a problem.
It's not the first time we've had a situation where a player feels he should play a certain position, but the manager disagrees.
Welbeck, Kagawa, Herrera and Rooney to name a few. They all wanted to play in a niche role, but the fact is if they had applied themselves, then they would have learned to play in certain roles, learned to strengthen those weak parts of their game, and become a better player. Herrera to his credit has adapted to playing a deeper role, and worked on his weaknesses. I'm not buying this 'I'm too good to play position X or Y, so i'm not going to bother learning it'.
Pogba has all the attributes to play a deeper role, the only thing stopping him is his own ego. You don't want players like that, players who'll only play in one formation, one system. You want players who are prepared to sacrifice bits of their game to help the team. When you have as many quality players as we do, you can't build a team around just one.. And that's our problem at the minute - too many egos putting their own glory ahead of pulling together as a team.
It's not the first time we've had a situation where a player feels he should play a certain position, but the manager disagrees.
Welbeck, Kagawa, Herrera and Rooney to name a few. They all wanted to play in a niche role, but the fact is if they had applied themselves, then they would have learned to play in certain roles, learned to strengthen those weak parts of their game, and become a better player. Herrera to his credit has adapted to playing a deeper role, and worked on his weaknesses. I'm not buying this 'I'm too good to play position X or Y, so i'm not going to bother learning it'.
Pogba has all the attributes to play a deeper role, the only thing stopping him is his own ego. You don't want players like that, players who'll only play in one formation, one system. You want players who are prepared to sacrifice bits of their game to help the team. When you have as many quality players as we do, you can't build a team around just one.. And that's our problem at the minute - too many egos putting their own glory ahead of pulling together as a team.
TFM isn't a midfielder and Periera was given the option to stay, but bottled it and went on loan for an easier way of playing football.
Dier wasn't a midfielder but that's where he plays for Tottenham now. What's your point?
As I said, we could try Lindelof there in a midfield 3, even Blind, but no - let's just stick to the same shit that doesn't get us the required results and expect a different outcome. Genius.
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Yes he is being misused.
You don’t pay £90 million on a midfielder and then shoehorn him into a role he isn’t familiar with. You play him in the role that made him a £90 million midfielder.
Mourinho doesn’t seem to have a clue how to set up the team to capitalise on the fact that we have a fantastic group of attackers. It’s fecking depressing.
You don’t pay £90 million on a midfielder and then shoehorn him into a role he isn’t familiar with. You play him in the role that made him a £90 million midfielder.
Mourinho doesn’t seem to have a clue how to set up the team to capitalise on the fact that we have a fantastic group of attackers. It’s fecking depressing.
Put a side the 3 man midfield talk (which i have been advocating a lot these few days 
). The Spurs and Newcastle performance from Pogba was disgraceful. He actually played much further up the pitch(not that it benefitted us with the lack of balance), while Lingard tried to help out in midfield, but Pogba didn't bother to help Matic, which rightly made Mourinho take the decision to sub him on both occasions. My question would be: Is Mourinho telling Pogba he can go drift forward a lot and Pogba maybe takes it too literally? That sounds a bit ridicilous between a manager and player that they don't know to communicate properly on what the player actually should be doing. If it's Pogba playing the big man and just ignoring Mou's tactical instructions, which his attitude could maybe imply, then i'm inclined to say get rid.
Yes Pogba can play in a 2 man midfield, of course he can we have seen that plenty of times. Will we get more out of him in a different setup? I think so. But the Spurs and Newcastle, possibly Stoke too as we were overran in midfield in that game despite winning 3-0, should be looked at in one isolated situation. Something has changed Pogba's mind, and now he doesn't seem to budge on him playing freely, without too many defensive responsibilities.
I honestly think Pogba deserves to be dropped if Mou doesn't want to cater to his needs, don't persist playing him in a position where he won't bother doing what he is told.
). The Spurs and Newcastle performance from Pogba was disgraceful. He actually played much further up the pitch(not that it benefitted us with the lack of balance), while Lingard tried to help out in midfield, but Pogba didn't bother to help Matic, which rightly made Mourinho take the decision to sub him on both occasions. My question would be: Is Mourinho telling Pogba he can go drift forward a lot and Pogba maybe takes it too literally? That sounds a bit ridicilous between a manager and player that they don't know to communicate properly on what the player actually should be doing. If it's Pogba playing the big man and just ignoring Mou's tactical instructions, which his attitude could maybe imply, then i'm inclined to say get rid.Yes Pogba can play in a 2 man midfield, of course he can we have seen that plenty of times. Will we get more out of him in a different setup? I think so. But the Spurs and Newcastle, possibly Stoke too as we were overran in midfield in that game despite winning 3-0, should be looked at in one isolated situation. Something has changed Pogba's mind, and now he doesn't seem to budge on him playing freely, without too many defensive responsibilities.
I honestly think Pogba deserves to be dropped if Mou doesn't want to cater to his needs, don't persist playing him in a position where he won't bother doing what he is told.
It's clear he is being misused but there is no hiding from the fack he should be preforming better even in a 2 man midfield than he he currently is. I think there is a bit of a power struggle going on. Jose continually playing him where he clearly doesn't like being played and Pogba doing his best to make sure everyone knows he isn't enjoying it. Who is right? Well that depends if you back the player or manager.
If Pogba is not listening to the manager, the club should fine him for being unprofessional and bad influence to the squad. I hope it's not true but feck that kind of attitude and give your best on the pitch, it's what these players are paid millions for, ffs!Put a side the 3 man midfield talk (which i have been advocating a lot these few days
Yes Pogba can play in a 2 man midfield, of course he can we have seen that plenty of times. Will we get more out of him in a different setup? I think so. But the Spurs and Newcastle, possibly Stoke too as we were overran in midfield in that game despite winning 3-0, should be looked at in one isolated situation. Something has changed Pogba's mind, and now he doesn't seem to budge on him playing freely, without too many defensive responsibilities.
I honestly think Pogba deserves to be dropped if Mou doesn't want to cater to his needs, don't persist playing him in a position where he won't bother doing what he is told.
He should be doing better, and there's no excuse for being lazy. I think his recent frustrations have more to do with the brand of football being served up than anything else. I want us to play 4-3-3 as I think that would bring out more consistently good performances from Pogba, but I don't think for a second it would solve all the problems in this team. And to be perfectly frank, who could blame him if he was having second thoughts about coming here given the brand of football and lack of progress in this team? Pogba presumably thought he would be challenging for the biggest trophies when he signed, and we still look miles away from the best teams in Europe. I totally understand if he's disillusioned.
It goes both ways, Pogba as a professional should commit and give his all when he's on the pitch regardless of what tactics Mourinho wants. At the same time, you don't pay 90 million for him, one of the brightest talents in football and don't build the team around his strengths.
I really hope Mourinho would give this 4-3-3 a go, they have been lacklustre for the past month or so and we clearly need some new ideas. However, with the recent remarks from the media to do this, I doubt Mourinho will. Either way, Pogba and Mourinho need to voice their concerns to each other if there is any tension between them at the moment.
I really hope Mourinho would give this 4-3-3 a go, they have been lacklustre for the past month or so and we clearly need some new ideas. However, with the recent remarks from the media to do this, I doubt Mourinho will. Either way, Pogba and Mourinho need to voice their concerns to each other if there is any tension between them at the moment.
Well, we finished 5th the season before he joined, so he must've known we were some way off. And even then we still managed to win the League cup and Europa League last year, that's a pretty good trophy haul for any club. We still have the FA cup and CL trophy to play for this year, of course the CL looks unlikely, but why throw a strop at this moment in time with so much to play for still?
I can understand the frustration about how we play, but that isn't a reason to stop making an effort.
I'm pretty sure Pogba didn't sign for us for the League Cup and Europa League. We finished 6th in the league last year, so other than the important CL qualification through the EL (which, let's not forget, we were very close to missing out on too) I wouldn't say we had a better season than 15/16 either. I'd take an FA cup over the League Cup/EL every day of the week.
Yeah, as I said, there's no excuse for laziness. All he can do at this point is focus on his own game. But I completely understand the frustration with our style of play and the lack of progress. He left one of the best teams in Europe to join us after all.
You are correct in what he should be doing but the big problem is what Jose is instructing him to do. At the beginning of the season Pogba was our main man, Jose’s main man and had free roaming rights on the field. Those games we weren’t playing fantastically but we were improving scoring 4 goals per game. We all saw what Pogba potentially could do, he was our KDB. We saw it in the Arsenal game but now Jose has decided Pogba is just another midfielder like everyone else who plays in midfield and Sanchez is now his playmaker, therefore he must hang back more and defend with Matic, like Herrera does. In the last couple of games, since Sanchez has come into the team how often has Pogba roamed over into the opposition half let alone over the entire field?
Personally I think if the situation doesn’t get resolved quickly this team will implode and only go downhill and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Pogba put in a transfer request.
Paid £90million for an attacking midfielder and you play him in a defensive midfield role, the amount of time i've seen him being sucked in deep in front of the back 4 is unreal he looks lost and looks like he's fed up.
So yes he is being misused would guardiola, conte, klopp, poch get anymore out of pogba i'm sorry to say the answer is yes, i'm not anti mourinho but he needs to lose the stubborness, overall look at the pace and power we have in the team, martial, lukaku, rashford, sanchez we should be doing a lot better but instead we are losing to newcastle, huddersfield etc.
So yes he is being misused would guardiola, conte, klopp, poch get anymore out of pogba i'm sorry to say the answer is yes, i'm not anti mourinho but he needs to lose the stubborness, overall look at the pace and power we have in the team, martial, lukaku, rashford, sanchez we should be doing a lot better but instead we are losing to newcastle, huddersfield etc.
I'd also say that this problem extends beyond Pogba. I mean, how many players in this team can we honestly say that Mourinho is consistently getting the best out of? That's quite damning when you think about it.