Is Pogba being misused by Mourinho ?

[kouroux]

People take the ridiculous shortcut that Pogba don't want to defend, that's wrong. Instinctively Pogba comeback deep, chases opponents and make loads of tackles, that's something that anyone that has followed him with France and Juventus will acknowledge. The problem with Pogba is somewhere else, @kouroux and I mentioned it a lot to the point where some thoughts that we disliked him but Pogba isn't an intelligent midfielder, he is a reactive and instinctive player, at this point of his career you can't trust him to do anything that requires tactical nous and control, he still plays draughts instead of Chess.

I honestly love him, a french player for Man Utd will always be a source of pride. It's just frustrating that he isn't fulfilling what his talent should allow to do. He can be the best in his position or one of the best in the world easily.

 

[Marcky411]

He looked a better player at Juventus. In fact most players we sign looked better at their previous club. That to me is a big concern and can't be put down to coincidence.

Fully agree, if it was only one player I wouldn’t be concerned but all our players seem to be performing below par and that is on the manager. He hasn’t improved one player in our team but a lot of our players have regressed this season and now at this stage of the season we need the team to step up their performances.
The team has really lost its little bit of stability and structure since he has shifted players to accommodate Sanchez.
One player which has really been on the receiving end the last couple of games, who has become a bit of a liability on the field, who many think should not start a game and should be sold, is LvG’s Mike “the rock” Smalling, just shows what a difference a manager can make to a player.

 

[singhters]

@ borden totally agree, martial poor, lukaku poor, rashford poor, mata, herrera.

 

[Canagel]

Ofcourse he is being misused. You don't pay 90million pounds for the one of the best attacking midfielders in the world to have him collecting balls off our CB's 70 yards away from the opposition goal. People who say 'yeah but he can do a job there and isn't doing enough' are missing the whole point. Footballers must be motivated to perform at the best of their abilities. Pogba at the moment isn't motivated and he isn't happy at being played out of position. We have plenty of players who can play the defensive role Pogba is being asked to do. McTominay and Herrera can fill in there. We have no-one however capable of influencing our attacking play like Pogba does. Mostly everything good going forward comes from him and when he isn't playing well the whole team doesn't play well. If a player isn't motivated he can look worse than he actually is. Mourinho's job is to motivate his players and try to adapt to them instead of throwing them under the bus all the time. Why is it that so many players we sign look gradually get worse when they come to United? No-one is pulling any trees at the moment so that proves that the manager is the one at fault. All our attacking players have slowly regressed since he arrived and I don't see him improving any players.

 

[golden_blunder]

Reports this morning claim that Pogba has said that he regrets joining united

Bs in my opinion

Meh

 

[Manny]

Reports this morning claim that Pogba has said that he regrets joining united

Bs in my opinion

Meh

That report is about 48 hours old.

 

[Hullyback]

Definitely misused. And it's gonna become a stand off at some point. Will Mourinho back down and admit he's wrong, or will Pogba walk? It's not going to end well I don't think, either JM will get the sack because Pogba wants to leave, or Pogba will leave to accommodate Mourinho staying. It'll depend on who the Directors see as the most expendable.

It's not like this wasn't coming though, everywhere the man goes he upsets or ostracises one or more of the star players within a year or so. He was never the right man for United, despite the two trophies last season in the long run he was bound to cause issues eventually. The question is how much damage he does before he gets the boot/walks away. He's miles behind Pep and City and will know it, so will he take the cowardly route and join PSG next season if he gets punted out the CL early doors (QF stage) and fails to get top 4? It'll be interesting to see what happens between now and May that's for sure. You have a decent squad in place barring a few that really need to be shown the door (Smalling, Jones, Fellaini, Young etc) but he's not making the most of it at all. I'd love Martial at Liverpool, but under JM he just looks lost, as does Pogba, as did Mkhitryan who isn't half as bad as some think he is. Lukaku seems frustrated too, all that money spent on him and he's not getting any service.

Time will tell but I think Mourinho peaked a while back and his style of football isn't right anymore. Either he changes, or like LVG the longer he goes on, the worse he'll get and become a bit of a laughing stock.

 

[SwSw]

Is Mourinho mis-using Pogba? Probably yes.

But let's not give Pogba a free ride as well. The effort he shown isn't enough. You don't just go sulking and throwing tanturms because you didn't get what you want. How about putting and some effort and then come back with a better pitch?

 

[Cliche Guevara]

No.

He’s being developed into a World Class all-round midfielder and needs to learn more quickly.

It’s ridiculous for anyone to think in the modern game a player needs a specific wee triangle on the left side of the pitch. That if he steps out of it he becomes completely shit. If you look at the failings people say Pogba has they are unacceptable but, actually, can be cured with the right training.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

If it means not playing him at his more natural position and given few defensive roles, like what Juventus did, thereby not getting the best performance out of him, then yes he's being misused.

But if we change that perspective to..

Mourinho trying to squeeze out getting the bestest/ more best out of Pogba by playing him at a slightly more unnatural position and more defensive roles (which can benefits him as a player), then no he's not being misused.

Still doesn't justified the half-hearted performances from him, as if putting no effort into it at all. Hopefully he won't sulk and continue being professional.

 

[Mart1974]

Fully agree, if it was only one player I wouldn’t be concerned but all our players seem to be performing below par and that is on the manager. He hasn’t improved one player in our team but a lot of our players have regressed this season and now at this stage of the season we need the team to step up their performances.
The team has really lost its little bit of stability and structure since he has shifted players to accommodate Sanchez.
One player which has really been on the receiving end the last couple of games, who has become a bit of a liability on the field, who many think should not start a game and should be sold, is LvG’s Mike “the rock” Smalling, just shows what a difference a manager can make to a player.

Lingard and Jones are improved. Could make an arguement for Young. He is no Pep but then again he doesn't have Pep's exceptional nutrionists and doctors...

 

[Infra-red]

As Ken Early suggested in the Irish Times earlier this week, Mourinho perhaps could learn from Benitez's handling of Gerrard circa 2005-09 (ie recognise the player's tactical weakness and compensate for it rather than trying to completely change his game - in Gerrard's case, that meant moving him away from the area of responsibility, and sticking Alonso & Mascherano in behind him - Pogba would probably benefit from something similar).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...between-pogba-and-mourinho-1.3388768?mode=amp

 

[mike bird]

Sell Pogba. Overrated.

This current issue with Jose is not about football, its about money. He wants more money.

Sell him and get a decent midfielder. Sell Lukaku as well and get Kane at all costs.

 

[red_devil83]

Surprised its taken this long to become a media story tbh. Play the lad in his best position. Square pegs, square holes etc

 

[Infra-red]

Sell Pogba. Overrated.

This current issue with Jose is not about football, its about money. He wants more money.

Sell him and get a decent midfielder. Sell Lukaku as well and get Kane at all costs.

So when Pogba and Mourinho were shouting and gesturing at oneanother on the side of the pitch at Wembley, you think that they'd decided to take time out from getting destroyed by Spurs to have a little discussion about his current rate of pay?

 

[Leftback99]

As Ken Early suggested in the Irish Times earlier this week, Mourinho perhaps could learn from Benitez's handling of Gerrard circa 2005-09 (ie recognise the player's tactical weakness and compensate for it rather than trying to completely change his game - in Gerrard's case, that meant moving him away from the area of responsibility, and sticking Alonso & Mascherano in behind him - Pogba would probably benefit from something similar).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...between-pogba-and-mourinho-1.3388768?mode=amp

Maybe, but Pogba doesn't have the goalscoring ability of Gerrard to play as a support striker like he did. We also don't have another reliable quality midfielder to play alongside Matic.
He wouldn't like it but it would be an interesting experiment to try him on the right of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, with Sanchez at 10 and Martial on the left.

 

[Infra-red]

Maybe, but Pogba doesn't have the goalscoring ability of Gerrard to play as a support striker like he did. We also don't have another reliable quality midfielder to play alongside Matic.
He wouldn't like it but it would be an interesting experiment to try him on the right of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, with Sanchez at 10 and Martial on the left.

Agreed re the goals, although we did sign one of the best wide forwards in world football last month, which could compensate for that somewhat.

I do think it's a reasonable blueprint, as is Juve's midfield circa 2012-15 and Napoli's current configuration - in order to set up a platform to get the best out of Pogba (Gerrard/Hamsik), we need the stability of our own Alonso/Pirlo/Jorginho & Mascherano/Vidal/Allan (the former of which would replace Carrick).

 

[Jim Beam]

Sell Pogba. Overrated.

This current issue with Jose is not about football, its about money. He wants more money.

Sell him and get a decent midfielder. Sell Lukaku as well and get Kane at all costs.

Don't know if you're serious? First of all, you would be mental to give up on Pogba so easily despite his performances in the last 2 games, because, erm... It was 2 games. He was good for the large part of the season. Second, you absolutely have no idea what is an issue with Pogba. Third, you can't get Kane. This is not shopping in the mall where you can get anything you want from the shelves.

And last, all this overhaul, selling that or buying this won't solve anything in the long run and it's tiresome. Then we mock Pep for trying to solve problems with money? Get this team to gell with Sanchez for a start. We are more than capable, just looking at the names and some performances during the season, to play good football.

 

[mike bird]

Don't know if you're serious? First of all, you would be mental to give up on Pogba so easily despite his performances in the last 2 games, because, erm... It was 2 games. He was good for the large part of the season. Second, you absolutely have no idea what is an issue with Pogba. Third, you can't get Kane. This is not shopping in the mall where you can get anything you want from the shelves.

And last, all this overhaul, selling that or buying this won't solve anything in the long run and it's tiresome. Then we mock Pep for trying to solve problems with money? Get this team to gell with Sanchez for a start. We are more than capable, just looking at the names and some performances during the season, to play good football.

First point that you make, why can we not get Kane? Whats the point of being the most successful team financially on this planet, if we do not assert our financial muscle when it counts. Dont forget, the same was said about Sanchez, yet, he is a Utd player.

Second point, for Pep if you do not perform, you get dropped and eventually get sold. He had his issues with Aguero, but it seems Aguero soon realized that he had to raise his game iin order to stay.

No one is bigger than the team, not Pogba not Jose. But, at some point, you have to cut your losses and sell whoever is not willing to perform to their standards.

 

[JPRouve]

Football is a team sports, there isn't a single player out there who is able to do things alone, who can play every roles just because his manager asked him or because he has all the talent of the world, not even Ronaldo and Messi. Everything in football is about combinations, synergy and mutual understanding. Players need roles that suit their qualities and compliment their teammates roles. That's the problem that we have at United, that's the problem that Pogba has at United and had with France.
In the case of France that problem completely vanished when he had Lemar and one of Tolisso/Kanté next to him or when he had Lassana Diarra behind him. And the reason is fairly simple, Tolisso and Kanté are all action players with decent defensive abilities, they can play at Pogba's rhythm without problem, while Lemar and Diarra are football magnets, the game invariably goes through them, they automatically take control of the flow which allows Pogba to concentrate on his impact player abilities.
At United Pogba is supposed to control the flow of the game which isn't one of his main tools, we expose his flaws because we don't have a complimentary set of midfielders, none of them are game managers and weirdly enough even our attacking midfielders are a flawed group, all them are goalscorers none are the creative type, we don't have a Ozil, Hazard, Ribery, Iniesta, Isco, De Bruyne or whoever else, so Pogba has to do it himself which isn't his best role.

 

[Tango80]

Paid £90million for an attacking midfielder and you play him in a defensive midfield role, the amount of time i've seen him being sucked in deep in front of the back 4 is unreal he looks lost and looks like he's fed up.

So yes he is being misused would guardiola, conte, klopp, poch get anymore out of pogba i'm sorry to say the answer is yes, i'm not anti mourinho but he needs to lose the stubborness, overall look at the pace and power we have in the team, martial, lukaku, rashford, sanchez we should be doing a lot better but instead we are losing to newcastle, huddersfield etc.

I'm not too sure about that. Pep did the same thing with De Bruyne last season and played him deeper, and to an extent he does the same with Silva. And they did well there. Poch and Klopp have also shunted players around as well.

A midfielder by nature should have both attacking and defensive qualities, and play a multitude of roles, especially a £90mil one. Pogba has everything in his locker to play that deeper role Mourinho wants, but he just wants to chase a ball around all day like a schoolkid.

 

[roonster09]

Football is a team sports, there isn't a single player out there who is able to do things alone, who can play every roles just because his manager asked him or because he has all the talent of the world, not even Ronaldo and Messi. Everything in football is about combinations, synergy and mutual understanding. Players need roles that suit their qualities and compliment their teammates roles. That's the problem that we have at United, that's the problem that Pogba has at United and had with France.
In the case of France that problem completely vanished when he had Lemar and one of Tolisso/Kanté next to him or when he had Lassana Diarra behind him. And the reason is fairly simple, Tolisso and Kanté are all action players with decent defensive abilities, they can play at Pogba's rhythm without problem, while Lemar and Diarra are football magnets, the game invariably goes through them, they automatically take control of the flow which allows Pogba to concentrate on his impact player abilities.
At United Pogba is supposed to control the flow of the game which isn't one of his main tools, we expose his flaws because we don't have a complimentary set of midfielders, none of them are game managers and weirdly enough even our attacking midfielders are a flawed group, all them are goalscorers none are the creative type, we don't have a Ozil, Hazard, Ribery, Iniesta, Isco, De Bruyne or whoever else, so Pogba has to do it himself which isn't his best role.

Good post. Like someone posted a video where some guy said fans want Pogba to control the game like Busquets, create like Ozil/KdB, work defensively like Kante. It's impossible.

 

[Jim Beam]

First point that you make, why can we not get Kane? Whats the point of being the most successful team financially on this planet, if we do not assert our financial muscle when it counts. Dont forget, the same was said about Sanchez, yet, he is a Utd player.

Second point, for Pep if you do not perform, you get dropped and eventually get sold. He had his issues with Aguero, but it seems Aguero soon realized that he had to raise his game iin order to stay.

No one is bigger than the team, not Pogba not Jose. But, at some point, you have to cut your losses and sell whoever is not willing to perform to their standards.

Because if Kane is on the market Levy won't sell to us than to Madrid for example. Also, it's realistic that Kane would want to join Madrid more than us as it won't upset Spurs fans so much and they are probably way more attractive to him. That's unfortunately how it is. It's not comparable with Sanchez, the market for world-class strikers is extremely limited and we will have a big competition for this one. It's very unlikely we can pull it off and if Madrid joins the race and they should be, it will be impossible imo.

You're right, Pep had issues with Aguero. They solved the problem and it's fine since then. There is no reason to believe it won't be the same with Pogba. It's way too early to start saying we should sell a player who should be a backbone of this team for the foreseeable future. If we are talking of buying, we should be looking more at strengthening our midfield along Pogba.

If we roll just 2 weeks back, anyone who would say such thing would be seen as mental. So, just 2 weeks later, 2 bad games (as bad as they were) and there is a reason to sell. Let's have some balance and perspective when we talk.

 

[SwSw]

As Ken Early suggested in the Irish Times earlier this week, Mourinho perhaps could learn from Benitez's handling of Gerrard circa 2005-09 (ie recognise the player's tactical weakness and compensate for it rather than trying to completely change his game - in Gerrard's case, that meant moving him away from the area of responsibility, and sticking Alonso & Mascherano in behind him - Pogba would probably benefit from something similar).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...between-pogba-and-mourinho-1.3388768?mode=amp

Mourinho is probably too stubborn to do so. Probably bending over to him means succumbing to player power.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Even if he is being asked to do a job at the moment, until we get one or two additions to the team, he should at least put a shift in.
If I turned up for work and told my bosses that I didn’t want to do this or that task, I’d be up the creek.
Entitled and lazy is what I’ve seen from him lately.

 

[Smores]

Paid £90million for an attacking midfielder and you play him in a defensive midfield role, the amount of time i've seen him being sucked in deep in front of the back 4 is unreal he looks lost and looks like he's fed up.

So yes he is being misused would guardiola, conte, klopp, poch get anymore out of pogba i'm sorry to say the answer is yes, i'm not anti mourinho but he needs to lose the stubborness, overall look at the pace and power we have in the team, martial, lukaku, rashford, sanchez we should be doing a lot better but instead we are losing to newcastle, huddersfield etc.

What a ridiculous post, he isn't an attacking midfielder and he hasn't played in defensive midfield apart from 2 games last season
where he actually did surprisingly well there.

None of his heat maps show what you've claimed to see. He spends most of his time closer to Lingard and Lukaku.

I'd actually say Lingard is some of the problem as he's occupying simmilar spaces at times.

We had huge transfer threads of people wanting Ozil, Griezeman. Exactly how did people see them fitting in if Pogba can only play in thier position (currently occupied by Lingard)??

 

[Pogue Mahone]

As Ken Early suggested in the Irish Times earlier this week, Mourinho perhaps could learn from Benitez's handling of Gerrard circa 2005-09 (ie recognise the player's tactical weakness and compensate for it rather than trying to completely change his game - in Gerrard's case, that meant moving him away from the area of responsibility, and sticking Alonso & Mascherano in behind him - Pogba would probably benefit from something similar).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...between-pogba-and-mourinho-1.3388768?mode=amp

Asking someone to play in what isn't his preferred position, for the good of the team? That's what he's doing. Pogba responded by sulking. Gerrard responded by driving his team to a CL trophy.

 

[Jacob]

So we need a worldclass mid to get the best out of our worldclass signing?

 

[JPRouve]

So we need a worldclass mid to get the best out of our worldclass signing?

If you actually mean "the best" then yes, to squeeze the best out of any player, worldclass players included, you need to have complimentary players that have the same level of ability. While WC players might ponctually drag their team out of darkness, it will never be a consistent occurrence, there isn't a single example of WC player that wasn't surrounded by peers and consistently played at his absolute best.
Now, if you just mean "play consistently well" then no you don't need to surround him with WC players, you just need players that compliment your WC player.

 

[Infra-red]

Asking someone to play in what isn't his preferred position, for the good of the team? That's what he's doing. Pogba responded by sulking. Gerrard responded by driving his team to a CL trophy.

You won't get any argument from me there - Pogba clearly has some maturing to do in that regard.

Ultimately this is just white noise anyway as we all know where this is going eventually.

 

[Number1]

I'd also say that this problem extends beyond Pogba. I mean, how many players in this team can we honestly say that Mourinho is consistently getting the best out of? That's quite damning when you think about it.

Yeah got to say if i imagine myself as a player, i wouldn't like to play for Jose Mourinho, not only the jobs he asks you to do, but as a man, he's not a guy you'd really want to fight for unlike Klopp/Pochettino, Jose is the type of weasel who looks after number one, takes all the credit in sucess, but if things aren't going his way he'll blame players/chairman/owners/referees/press/fans, anyone and anything other than himself.

Read an article in the paper this morning that Pogba regrets moving back to United, think i would to be honest with you, Alexis Sanchez is probably having doubts too and i think many players will think twice before moving here.

As for 'Pogba should be sold' (which one or 2 people have wrote here) i'd rather see Jose go first.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah got to say if i imagine myself as a player, i wouldn't like to play for Jose Mourinho, not only the jobs he asks you to do, but as a man, he's not a guy you'd really want to fight for unlike Klopp/Pochettino, Jose is the type of weasel who looks after number one, takes all the credit in sucess, but if things aren't going his way he'll blame players/chairman/owners/referees/press/fans, anyone and anything other than himself.

Read an article in the paper this morning that Pogba regrets moving back to United, think i would to be honest with you, Alexis Sanchez is probably having doubts too and i think many players will think twice before moving here.

As for 'Pogba should be sold' (which one or 2 people have wrote here) i'd rather see Jose go first.

Most of the players that have talked about Mourinho love the man, he is supposed to be caring and very nice, he is also a hard worker and expect total focus and commitment but he definitely sounds like the type of person you would play for because you know that he cares.

 

[crossy1686]

Reports this morning claim that Pogba has said that he regrets joining united

Bs in my opinion

Meh

Nonsense. Someone's been sitting on that headline since he arrived and hoping he'd go through a bad spell at some point.

 

[Andrew~]

If Pogba is genuinely as rubbish as some people are saying in this thread: why did Mourinho push to buy him for a world record transfer fee without scouting him properly? Tactical ill-discipline and poor basics are very hard to miss if you watch a player over the course of a season. You do not pay £90 million for a player in the hope you might turn him into a different player so I don't think this argument makes Mourinho look any better.

If Pogba is rubbish, Mourinho failed to scout properly; overpaid wildly for a player who's not very good; and lastly is failing to adjust his tactics to cover for his expensive player's rubbish-ness. Sack them both.

 

[Jacob]

If you actually mean "the best" then yes, to squeeze the best out of any player, worldclass players included, you need to have complimentary players that have the same level of ability. While WC players might ponctually drag their team out of darkness, it will never be a consistent occurrence, there isn't a single example of WC player that wasn't surrounded by peers and consistently played at his absolute best.
Now, if you just mean "play consistently well" then no you don't need to surround him with WC players, you just need players that compliment your WC player.

Should be the other way around. A worldclass player bringing the best out of lesser players.

 

[JPRouve]

Should be the other way around. A worldclass player bringing the best out of lesser players.

And what you are saying won't get the best out of a world class player.

 

[Raees]

Asking someone to play in what isn't his preferred position, for the good of the team? That's what he's doing. Pogba responded by sulking. Gerrard responded by driving his team to a CL trophy.

Question is it actually good for the team though? Results and performances suggest otherwise on the whole.

 

[Infra-red]

If Pogba is genuinely as rubbish as some people are saying in this thread: why did Mourinho push to buy him for a world record transfer fee without scouting him properly? Tactical ill-discipline and poor basics are very hard to miss if you watch a player over the course of a season. You do not pay £90 million for a player in the hope you might turn him into a different player so I don't think this argument makes Mourinho look any better.

If Pogba is rubbish, Mourinho failed to scout properly; overpaid wildly for a player who's not very good; and lastly is failing to adjust his tactics to cover for his expensive player's rubbish-ness. Sack them both.

He presumably hopes(ed) to transform him into an all-round #8, able to attack and defend with equal ability, playing as one of the deep-lying midfield two in his preferred 4-2-3-1 system. If that doesn't work out, he'll be flogged to PSG/Madrid/whoever for similar money to that which we originally paid for him.

 

[Smores]

He presumably hopes(ed) to transform him into an all-round #8, able to attack and defend with equal ability, playing as one of the deep-lying midfield two in his preferred 4-2-3-1 system. If that doesn't work out, he'll be flogged to PSG/Madrid/whoever for similar money to that which we originally paid for him.

As someone else posted, Pogba has said he wants to be that all rounder too. Which to me shows a lack of awareness, he might think he can do everything but he evidently can't be disciplined in his play or be a reliable goalscorer.

 

[Member 85611]

Playing in the Real Madrid midfield 3 he'd be Top 3 Ballon d'Or instantly

What would you tell Ballbag then
"Spanish league is worse"
Or "He has better players around him"?