He suits England and international football. He’d fair similar to Ole for us. We need someone capable of revolutionising a football club’s style of play and also have some track record of excellence in club football. What experience does Southgate have in building a top side? ETH is light years head of him in this regard. Granted we need to give manager less power to sign players single-handedly but the answer is not a manager who isn’t a great coach and is failure at club level.
Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?
- Thread starter Sir Erik ten Hag
- Start date
That’s not the issue. It’s more than the mainstream media has picked it up as a supposedly credible story. You can’t blame fans of the most football club in the world that has (relatively) struggled for a decade to be unhappy at the idea of Gareth fecking Southgate being the new owners number 1 /2 target.
I’d like to give INEOS the benefit of doubt given the people they’ve targeted for other roles have been highly regarded.
Which mainstream media outlet with credible journalist is running with this story you will find none .
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Hearing him talk about mental health and resilience with a few others, how he was able to overcome his penalty miss. Think he comes across well generally.
People don’t follow only credible journalists. Popular shows like Espn Fc are running this story with ex players / journalists discussing it as if it’s fact.
We need a Southgate v. Ten Hag poll.
Well Odgen and his imaginary sources have floated this nonsense So offcourse Espn would run with it as he is their Employee and I don't think anybody who has followed football long enough looks to Espn to get any serious info about their clubs .
So they’re only being watched by teenagers? I think you severely underrate the contribution of “not incredibly regarded journalists” to the general discourse. I’m not praising these outlets but acknowledging that people form views / fears / feelings based on what the general mainstream media churns out as “news”.
Oh I absolutely get the point you are making now but I still expect posters who frequent Red Cafe to know better still with all the great work put in by @mazhar13 to ensure we can easily sift through nonsense and credible info whether it's about transfers or just general info .
Exactly. As a FA spokesman.
Losing a big, high-profile match by penalties is hardly unique.
Please be respectful to our manager for Christ sake.
As an Irishman, I hope he stays in the England job for many, many years.
What an absolute softcock of a man.
What an absolute softcock of a man.
I said in the newbs I think he's become one of those that it's cool to hate on.
Yes he's got deficiencies tactically and with favourites but the way this team is viewed now is so far away from the joke we used to be. Other, better managers have had extremely talented England squads and failed with them so I don't think it's just a case of "he's got good players". Obviously it helps but the unity is such a big part that was missing from any previous England team. He's quite clearly very good at the man management side and dealing with them psychologically, and if we're honest with ourselves he probably does have more tactical knowledge than he's given credit for.
You're also not going to get the top managers venturing into International football so in some aspects he's not a terrible choice. We've tried and failed in th past with proven managers who just don't 'get' the players or how to manage them as people and we've seen how that turns out.
He's also by all accounts a lovely bloke. That doesn't mean you can't want him to not be England manager or Utd manager but I do think it means having some respect and not banding about calling him a clown, coward or whatever the current buzzword is. It's perfectly fine to think he doesn't suit the England job (I do) or the Utd job (I don't) but I don't really understand how he's become a bit of a joke name for some people.
Yes he's got deficiencies tactically and with favourites but the way this team is viewed now is so far away from the joke we used to be. Other, better managers have had extremely talented England squads and failed with them so I don't think it's just a case of "he's got good players". Obviously it helps but the unity is such a big part that was missing from any previous England team. He's quite clearly very good at the man management side and dealing with them psychologically, and if we're honest with ourselves he probably does have more tactical knowledge than he's given credit for.
You're also not going to get the top managers venturing into International football so in some aspects he's not a terrible choice. We've tried and failed in th past with proven managers who just don't 'get' the players or how to manage them as people and we've seen how that turns out.
He's also by all accounts a lovely bloke. That doesn't mean you can't want him to not be England manager or Utd manager but I do think it means having some respect and not banding about calling him a clown, coward or whatever the current buzzword is. It's perfectly fine to think he doesn't suit the England job (I do) or the Utd job (I don't) but I don't really understand how he's become a bit of a joke name for some people.
It's a tough one of assess with Southgate.
He's not great tactically and in the 2 biggest moments he froze and tried to shut up shop when we got the lead, which ultimately lead to our downfall. However, England have had tactically astute managers previously with top talent and they didn't come close to the success (I know we didn't win anything, but going deep in international football for England is a success given our disastrous record previously). There also seemed to be a shift away from that in the World Cup where we took the game to France and were in a position to take the game to extra-time and who knows what happens after that if Kane doesn't miss.
International football requires a slightly different skillset than club football, system managers are often failures in the international game as they don't get the time to work with their players, enrique and flick being the 2 latest examples with poor records internationally at major tournaments. Southgate clearly excels in man management and creating a good environment for an international team to thrive. England no longer have segregated club cliques like the days of the past and everyone seems to actually be in it together. One argument is that footballers are a little softer in this era with regards to rivalry and you can see it at the end of each premier league game when rival players are walking of the pitch embracing, the like would have never been seen in Roy Keane's reign as captain. However, Southgate's influence on this cannot be understated, it was clear in 2018 the atmosphere he was trying to build and it could be seen again when he made an example of sterling back in 2019 when he was a key player for him by dropping him for potentially causing disharmony in the group.
With all that said do I think Southgate is underrated? It depends on the context we're assessing him. I think his skillset has a ceiling in the club game, as 'good vibes' can only get you so far and it soon goes away once the results start to turn. In club football I think he'd be consigned to being the manager who's parachuted in to get the new manager bounce by improving the dressing room culture, but would then be back out the door once the ship had been steadied and clubs want to look for a more expansive type manager. I think his tenure as England manager is criminally underrated though. The team in 2018 was absolute toilet water and we still got to our first semi final in nearly 3 decades. I think we should have won that Euro final, but given where we've come from and the age profile of the squad we have it's still a success and last world cup we were edged out by one of the only teams in the international game who have an equal footing in terms of squad quality. That said I think Southgate's legacy all hinges on the summer, if we win the Euro's, when the dust settles and we inevitably go back to getting knocked out by iceland I think the perception of the success he has had will change significantly. If we don't win it, he will rightly be remembered as the nearly man.
He's not great tactically and in the 2 biggest moments he froze and tried to shut up shop when we got the lead, which ultimately lead to our downfall. However, England have had tactically astute managers previously with top talent and they didn't come close to the success (I know we didn't win anything, but going deep in international football for England is a success given our disastrous record previously). There also seemed to be a shift away from that in the World Cup where we took the game to France and were in a position to take the game to extra-time and who knows what happens after that if Kane doesn't miss.
International football requires a slightly different skillset than club football, system managers are often failures in the international game as they don't get the time to work with their players, enrique and flick being the 2 latest examples with poor records internationally at major tournaments. Southgate clearly excels in man management and creating a good environment for an international team to thrive. England no longer have segregated club cliques like the days of the past and everyone seems to actually be in it together. One argument is that footballers are a little softer in this era with regards to rivalry and you can see it at the end of each premier league game when rival players are walking of the pitch embracing, the like would have never been seen in Roy Keane's reign as captain. However, Southgate's influence on this cannot be understated, it was clear in 2018 the atmosphere he was trying to build and it could be seen again when he made an example of sterling back in 2019 when he was a key player for him by dropping him for potentially causing disharmony in the group.
With all that said do I think Southgate is underrated? It depends on the context we're assessing him. I think his skillset has a ceiling in the club game, as 'good vibes' can only get you so far and it soon goes away once the results start to turn. In club football I think he'd be consigned to being the manager who's parachuted in to get the new manager bounce by improving the dressing room culture, but would then be back out the door once the ship had been steadied and clubs want to look for a more expansive type manager. I think his tenure as England manager is criminally underrated though. The team in 2018 was absolute toilet water and we still got to our first semi final in nearly 3 decades. I think we should have won that Euro final, but given where we've come from and the age profile of the squad we have it's still a success and last world cup we were edged out by one of the only teams in the international game who have an equal footing in terms of squad quality. That said I think Southgate's legacy all hinges on the summer, if we win the Euro's, when the dust settles and we inevitably go back to getting knocked out by iceland I think the perception of the success he has had will change significantly. If we don't win it, he will rightly be remembered as the nearly man.
Screams of an agent trying to enhance a coach's profile ahead of what is likely to be the coach's last tournament.
Gareth Southgate is underrated because he's not physically attractive.
Just like the equally unattractive Vicente del Bosque couldn't get a job after Real Madrid despite having an extremely successful stint with 2 UCLs and 2 LaLigas.
He was unemployed for years until Spain took pity on him and made him coach – with known results.
Just like the equally unattractive Vicente del Bosque couldn't get a job after Real Madrid despite having an extremely successful stint with 2 UCLs and 2 LaLigas.
He was unemployed for years until Spain took pity on him and made him coach – with known results.
I think the "system managers don't work in international football" is a bit blown out of proportion. While it is true that you have less time to work with the team that doesn't automatically mean that you have to play very basic stuff with no tactical nous whatsoever. You have to make concessions but a) we've seen more than enough coaches implementing their handwriting over the span of two or three weeks after coming in and b) you can still build upon the foundation of a core of players that are used to playing in a certain system. Of course you won't be able to replicate the level of automatisms we see in club football unless you can field half the team of a successful club team but I think the pareto principle applies here as well.
Personally, given the golden generation you guys currently have, I think England cannot allow itself be satisfied with Southgate. In a tournament format, everything's possible so you can't rule out that he actually wins something but I think the chances would be much higher with a more capable coach overseeing this team.
The waistcoats didn't cut it for you eh?
That's like rolling a die with only 3's and 4's on it. We need better options.
For England Southgate's brought the most defensive and coward approach to football I can remember to have seen for a top NT in modern times. Topped by the EURO 2020: Being big favourites and starting 8 defenders (7 defenders + 1 goalkeeper) in the final against Italy, with Saka, Grealish, Rashford, Sancho and Bellingham all starting on the bench, and then sitting back defending an early lead and let Italy play football for 117 minutes, is the most coward approach to a football match I've ever seen.
He would be a disaster for us. It's like he doesn't know he has a job in the entertainment business and would be slaughtered with that approach here, like LVG without the obsession with possession.
I'd much rather take a chance with someone with an attacking football philosophy, even if it's a big risk of total failure.
I'd rather fail miserably with someone trying to implement an attacking philosophy than having to watch "Southgate football" for a couple of seasons with decent results.
It hasn't harmed Klopp
We'd end up with Henderson as captain so no thanks for that alone.
Look at your own pile of steaming shite fella
There are some very strange takes on this forum, but even with those weirdos lurking I would still fancy Ten Hag to get 75% or more of the votes. I'll be happy enough if Ten Hag is the manager next season. But i'll be distraught if it's Southgate
Southgate is utter wank. He has absolutely no pedigree in managing a club and our national performances often underwhelm despite having an embarrassment of riches.
Appreciate the considered response, but I'm afraid that this is a Gareth-Southgate-type-answer. It's convoluted, complicated and I am not sure whether it clarifies any position on his suitability as Man Utd manager.
This is why I want Southgate as far away from Man Utd as possible. He doesn't actually stand for anything at all.
Nope. Just massively overrated by his chums in the media
That's disrespectful to Ole. There's no way Southgate could win 3 games on the bounce at the Etihad.
He's an awful manager at club level. National sides, he's okay, but we obviously need to upgrade on him there, too. He did his job well at making England a harmonious squad, but his tactics always left a lot to be desired.
He earned the Euro 2020/1 tournament off the back of a good world cup, but should've been let go after not learning from the Croatia game against Italy. The fact that he got another tournament, cost us again, and is getting another one on top of that is a travesty.
If United even consider him then I don't know what we're playing at.
He earned the Euro 2020/1 tournament off the back of a good world cup, but should've been let go after not learning from the Croatia game against Italy. The fact that he got another tournament, cost us again, and is getting another one on top of that is a travesty.
If United even consider him then I don't know what we're playing at.
I really wish these Southgate rumours would die. I was hoping they were nothing more than the usual memes doing the rounds.
The man's sole club managerial experience was managing Boro in the noughties, where he managed to get them relegated, and failed to bring them back up the season after. How that translates to him being the right man to kick off United's modern rebuild I don't know. His experience as England manager is irrelevant for me as international football is an entirely different ball game - figuratively speaking. It would be akin to us hiring someone like Fernando Santos. If you're going to go down that route then at least go for a proven winner like Deschamps.
I'd really start tempering my optimism with the Ratcliffe era if these rumours do start materialising.
The man's sole club managerial experience was managing Boro in the noughties, where he managed to get them relegated, and failed to bring them back up the season after. How that translates to him being the right man to kick off United's modern rebuild I don't know. His experience as England manager is irrelevant for me as international football is an entirely different ball game - figuratively speaking. It would be akin to us hiring someone like Fernando Santos. If you're going to go down that route then at least go for a proven winner like Deschamps.
I'd really start tempering my optimism with the Ratcliffe era if these rumours do start materialising.
Oh I’m well aware that a ticket of Fergie, Pep and Cruyff wouldn’t make Ireland successful. Just that England being unable to make full use of the talent available to them makes our being shite a little more bearable.
England have had two great sides in my lifetime. Luckily they have had shite managers in charge for both.
Who's the other, Sven?
He's actually a manager who was overrated because of his appearance. We all know the ladies swooned around him and he had that ”wise owl” look, making people believe he was smarter than he was.
People say it was his assistant who actually knew anything about football.
But talking openly about mental health isn’t. My OP is about liking him as a person but not a manager. Many fit that like Ole, I don’t think it’s so controversial for me to think this…
Current England team is the best since 1966. And I'm sure England won't win Euros. This is how good Southgate is in my view.
Zehner and common sense are parallels when it comes to football
(jk, in this case he's not wrong, about the first part of his post)Btw, it's funny that you continue to blame the quality of football or playing style when Southgate modeled England's 2021 Euros on the 2018 WC-winning France. The same France that started playing more aesthetically pleasing, pro-active and attacking football and...didn't win
Modelling and implementation are worlds apart especially when you have a manager who loses more nerve the farther into a tournament he gets - like some kind of inverse super power - and is fearful of fully committing to anything that could oppress sides, let alone the best of them.Zehner and common sense are parallels when it comes to football
Btw, it's funny that you continue to blame the quality of football or playing style when Southgate modeled England's 2021 Euros on the 2018 WC-winning France. The same France that started playing more aesthetically pleasing, pro-active and attacking football and...didn't win
The measures of Southgate is how he'll manage to flub the next one, rather than what he'll do to right the wrongs of his previous tournaments.
The day he proves this incorrect is the day I'll @ you and hold my hands up.
He could go trophyless for four years though.
The thread is asking if Southgate is underrated, not if he's suitable to be Manchester United manager. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Southgate should be nowhere near us as manager, that can be true whilst still saying he's underrated, which I think is the case.
Cool. So did Klopp.
Wrong. He won the CL within his first four years. Try harder.