Is Sterling the best english player at the moment?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by TsuWave, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Feb 10, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    Of course not, but Rashford hasn't been playing in a team which is essentially built around him as the focal point either. He's been played mostly out wide and it's only now that he's getting a consistent run in the team and he's scoring. In stats he's not too far behind Kane either - Rashford (10G 6A for United) and Kane (19G 5A for Spurs). He's 4 years younger too so he has time to catch up in terms of his finishing skills and OGS is the perfect manager to learn that from too. Nobody is forgetting or discounting Kanes quality and they'd be stupid to do so considering his record since his breakout season and the way he plays, but there are always different methods that will work on different teams and the Rashford/Sancho/Sterling combo would potentially work better in terms of their fluidity.

    You're right, it won't happen in general because of Kanes quality but when he's injured it won't be too much of a downgrade which is only good for England.
  2. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    I reserve the rights to make the thread for when Rashford is clear of Kane btw.
  3. Feb 10, 2019

    Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell New Member

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    Sterling is a great player - Pep is the perfect manager to develop him. Sterling seems like a decent kid too, hard to begrudge him having success.

    I don't get the point in debating who is better between Sterling and Kane because they're totally different players. For the same reason it's pointless comparing Rashford to either of them. Hopefully England can figure out of system that gets the best of of them all.

    Sterling is so young, he really could go on to win the major personal honours - if he can reproduce these peformances in the Champions League.
  4. Feb 10, 2019

    GeorgieBoy Full Member

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    He's keeping Sane and Mahrez out the team on a consistent basis. At the moment he's definitely one of England's top 2 players.
    Plus he seems a likeable guy fair fecks to him for doing so well, despite the shit he gets.
  5. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    And Kane is more of an aerial threat, a better passer of the ball, better overall in terms of shooting technique both inside and outside of the box.

    Rashford has more 'X Factor' than Shearer did as well, which is to say he's quicker and better at stepovers. It doesn't mean he's going to better than he was either.
  6. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    Kane is nowhere near Shearer (Kane would not even make top 10 strikers ever in the EPL) so evoking that name to dismiss a legit point regarding Rashford having a lot more ability than Kane is comical.

    I did concede Kane being a better finisher, that included aerial threat and finishing in/outside the box unless stated otherwise. Kane being a better passer than Rashford is debatable, its not like he's opening teams like Pogba or something.

    like i said, Rashford to me has a much higher ceiling, and aligned for age, stats seems to corroborate that. to me Rashford being clear of him, much like Sterling is, seems inevitable.
  7. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    See, this is where we disagree. I think fluidity wise you'd lose a lot by benching Kane because he would offer balance with his ability to hold the ball up and lay it off out wide.

    Someone mentioned France, and when they went with a similar front 3 Dembele/Mbappe/Griezmann it simply didn't work, despite all 3 being incredibly exciting individuals. Teams were able to counter the pace they had by simply sitting deep and refusing to allow them space in behind.

    When they brought in Giroud they had a focal point, someone to cross the ball in to the box for, someone who could nod it down or play it out wide for their teammates. Players like Sterling, Hazard, Sancho etc love playing alongside someone like that.
  8. Feb 10, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Sterling has more than double the assists of Kane in the league this season, 11 big chances created to 7, 85.88% pass completion to 72.75%. Is he a better passer of the ball, really?
  9. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I was talking about Rashford.

    Also again, City have scored 20 more goals than we do. I've watched them play plenty of this season and Sterling gets an insane amount of chances per game, and so many chances to play through balls in to his teammates, more so than Kane.

    Again, how creative or lethal in front of goal is Sterling when playing in the same setup as Kane for England?
  10. Feb 10, 2019

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Derp, my bad :D

    I'd rather not talk about England. I always get shat on for it when I do :lol:
  11. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    English national team is not the be all end all
  12. Feb 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Yeah but offering balance via his superior hold-up play is not 'fluidity', you're misinterpreting the word in your determination to defend Kane. A front three of Sancho/Sterling/Rashford would offer greater fluidity than one with Kane as the striker, that's not even up for debate. It could be more fluid and less effective, as you suggest, and likely would, but it would nevertheless be more fluid.
  13. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    No, but it is the only example we have of Kane and Sterling playing on an equal footing where neither is playing in a side which scores far more goals.
  14. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    player comparisons have existed for eons and hardly any has ever met this criteria. It’s the nature of things. Seems like we are just trying to find a crutch for Kane, much like the “it’s the system!!!” line of argument as if Guardiola didn’t sell a bag of players.

    Sterling is elite, and the best English player.
  15. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    What would you class as fluidity then? I'd say having Giroud in the France team made the attack flow better, before that it looked dysfunctional. Kane's off the ball movement is fantastic so it's not like he's static either, he's just not quick in behind .. but nor is he particularly slow.

    I don't get why Rashford would offer more fluidity to an attack than Kane.
  16. Feb 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Yeah using performances in the same national side to compare players is a pretty poor argument, you could make tons of bizarre claims on that basis. It's something worth referencing but I wouldn't attach much significance to it. Kane's better than Sterling in my opinion, but it has nothing to do with what they do in an England shirt. If you had to build a team from scratch, you'd be mad (or brave) to pick Sterling ahead of Kane. In the right system then Sterling can be a better option, such as City's, but the majority you're going to get more from Kane.
  17. Feb 10, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    @BobbyManc put it better than I would have in his response to this but added to it by fluidity I mean that each of those 3 could easily interchange with each other across the 3 forward positions with ease.
  18. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    People also act like Sterling didn’t show levels at Liverpool. “it’s the system!!!”
  19. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    I don't think it's a great argument or proves anything on its own either, it's just we don't really have any other form of comparison and it's hard to say what Sterling would do outside of this exceptional Manchester City side/setup.
  20. Feb 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Let's use a simple google definition:

    the state of being unsettled or unstable; changeability.
    "tactical considerations can change rapidly given the fluidity of the situation"

    A front three of Sterling/Rashford/Sancho could interchange without problems. If Rashford wants to drift to the left wing and hug the touchline or start making runs in behind on the right or through the middle then you can switch it up to allow that. Sterling or Sancho can go do whichever role he was doing beforehand. If you have a player like Kane or Giroud, then they're going to be given one job and they're going to stick to it.
  21. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    :lol: Sterling was never half this good at Liverpool.

    Also, he's a very good player and it's clearly not ALL the system it's just being suggested as a contributing factor, why do you seem to have such an issue with that idea?
  22. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Ooo fair enough, I'll accept that :).
  23. Feb 10, 2019

    stepic Full Member

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    Kane is still better.

    He’s comfortably England’s second best player though.
  24. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Yeah, I've just seen his definition and that's entirely fair.

    I kinda had a different definition of 'fluid in mind, as it meaning how well attacking play in general would flow, but it's certainly true that Rashford is better at switching from the centre to the flanks.
  25. Feb 10, 2019

    dogwithabone Full Member

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    I’ve asked this question before ......... as of now, would you swap Rashford for Kane ?
  26. Feb 10, 2019

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Think it would be interesting to see what happens with a front 3 of Sterling, Rashford and Sancho, however Kane does still deserve to start over them given his performances in the England shirt.

    An ultra attacking 4231 could be a joy to watch...

    -------------------Kane
    Rashford - Sancho - Sterling

    Would be one hell of an attacking quartet
  27. Feb 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Sterling was a teenager for most of his time at Liverpool, naturally he's going to be vastly improved as a 24 year old. Kane also benefits from systems which are designed to get the best out of him, for both England and Spurs, as he's the best player in both sides. Sterling isn't City's best player and doesn't have the luxury of having the side built around him. You put Kane in a side like City's or Barcelona's or a national team where he's not the main player and he might struggle (indeed, as Aguero did for a time) as he's going to be taken out of his comfort zone and asked to do things he normally wouldn't have to. The system argument is as valid for Kane as it is for Sterling.
  28. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Regardless of systems, I think Sterling benefits more from the quality around him than Kane does. We have some very good attacking players but you have better ones, as well as having a vastly more creative midfield, and Sterling benefits from that.

    The Sterling thing was more because he was acting like Sterling was doing the precise same things for them as he did for you, which isn't true. He also played in a very good side going forward with Suarez leading the line and then when Liverpool struggled the next season Sterling was nowhere to be seen.
  29. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    I said he showed levels, which he did, hence a record transfer between EPL clubs for a British player, hence Liverpool fans being sore about his departure. dude was a teenager hitting double figures in both goals and assists for Liverpool.

    much like Spurs' system aids Kane? that could be said about any player.

    Sterling though >
  30. Feb 10, 2019

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Yeah that's certainly a valid point. It would be fascinating to see how Sterling would fare in a mid-table side and he was made the talisman kind of like Zaha at Palace. It's one where I wouldn't be surprised if he really struggled or if he actually managed to step up a level with his newfound freedom.
  31. Feb 10, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    He showed levels? He showed he was very talented, which nobody is denying.

    Yes, we know you think this. You say it in every single post, I think everyone knows by now that you think Sterling is better than Kane.
  32. Feb 10, 2019

    Amar__ Incredibly Nasty Man

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    @TsuWave you should probably stop posting about Kane. As someone who doesn't care about any of Sterling or Kane, I think your underrating of Kane has reached unreasonable levels.
  33. Feb 10, 2019

    Red1968 Full Member

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    Sterling is a decent talent that's it. His so called "superstar" evaluation from some of his fan boys here on the café seems to ignore the unprecedented talent he has been surrounded with at City. City has and has had so many great players that have set the table for players like Sterling over the past few years that even a middling or no talent player couldn't help but score in his position. Put Sterling on Watford or someone mid table and he is back to his ordinary self, quickly.
  34. Feb 10, 2019

    We need an rvn Full Member

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    this exactly sums up everything I don't get in some fans.

    so let's play a kid who is smashing it for United as a striker and stick him left wing. let's put a player who is doing brilliant on the right wing for Dortmund and stick him central and stick Sterling out to fit him in.

    This is exactly the Lampard / Gerard conundrum all over again and instead stick to a system and put the best player on form in that system rather than put a player in a team just because

    Not saying I don't get the enthusiasm but you got to admit you're doing a Gerard / Lampard thing and putting Lampard on the left wing just because he had to be in the squad type thing
  35. Feb 10, 2019

    Prometheus Requested ban until Sep 22, 2019

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    He's been for a while now.

    Also people acting like he didn't light the league up as a teenager as part of the Liverpool team that nearly won the league.
  36. Feb 10, 2019

    TsuWave Full Member

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    nah. because I think Sterling is better and that Rashford could be too? or was it my assertion that he wouldn't make a top 10 best premier league strikers ever? now that i think about it, he may struggle to make it to a top 15. Good player though.

    I don't know if you're not familiar with colloquialisms, it may be a language barrier, alas, you don't reach double figures in both goals and assists as a teenager in this league and move for a record transfer without showing levels. Raheem Sterling, best english player, can't be reiterated enough.

    exactly what i said. "b-b-but the system!!!!"
  37. Feb 10, 2019

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Everyone of those players can play in the position they are portrayed in. Also it would be a fluid tactic with them all interchanging positions throughout so it's not like either of the 3 are stuck in a position they don't want to be like Lampard was.
  38. Feb 10, 2019

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Well Rashford ain't going to play as a no 9 for England ahead of Kane is he? And Sterling tbf is arguably at his best on the RW, so that does leave the LW as the obvious place for Rashford to play, a position he can play very well and probably is England's best option there. The shoehorning is Sancho at no 10 though I agree
  39. Feb 10, 2019

    Adcuth Full Member

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    If the formation allows interchangeable players then I'd start sterling as the 10 but allow him to drift out to the right. Rashford can be effective on the left and given Kane's ability to hold up play he could allow Rashford to break forward into the striker role. Sancho can adapt his position accordingly so I don't think it's a bad shout
  40. Feb 10, 2019

    andyox Full Member

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    I think it goes both ways and it's therefore unfair to use a "but system" argument for Sterling at City, but not use one for Sterling for England.

    Sterling is a great player for City, extremely dangerous on both right and left wing, but obviously he benefits from playing in an excellent City team in front of the likes of Silva x 2 and KDB. So yes he gets more chances than if he were at another team, and therefore scores more goals than he would at other teams. His finishing and composure has certainly improved though, which is why his stats at City have also improved.

    Conversely, no I don't think Sterling played to his potential for England at the WC -- although I'd argue he was far from "shocking". But in his defence, he was effectively being played as a second striker with his main role seemingly to chase after hoofs from the likes of Henderson and Dier, with absolutely no support from other England midfielders. So if he did manage to retrieve any of those long balls, more often than not he was quite isolated and tried to do too much on his own in terms of over-dribbling etc. He very rarely does this at City.

    I know the Caf loves to compare players, but don't know how useful it is to compare a winger (Sterling) with a #9 (Kane)? They're both great and both having great seasons.