Geez, if united are putting the bundle of joy known as Geoffrey Boycott to sleep, the idea united are boring is more and more undeniable.
Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Geoffrey Boycott would be a good replacement... Dour defence for 3hrs - the fans would love it. A new tactical innovation could be 11 players standing still in front of the goal.
Oh dear. The pro- van gaal guys are thinking about the past are we!!!?? If anything we are the one thinking about the future - not even the near future but a club completely in sync with its style of football for 10-15 years plus!
If we really are only backing van gaal because of his past then god forbid Mourinho- erase his past & we have a relegation struggler.
Seriously- did no-one do any research on van gaal when we hired him? 80% of his players, CEO's & other managers only have legendary things to say about him. It is not me who is saying he influenced the current bayern & barcelona sides - it is the players!!!
While every club be that at barca, bayern & now united - it is the fans who carry the impatience.. I thought maybe we could learn something. If bayern & barca did improve in such an shortened and vigorous period; maybe just maybe we could show some patience & squeeze every ounce of knowledge out of him aslong as realistic expectations are met.
We spent the majority of the 250 mil on the first year when our business plan in qualifying for the CL was the most important thing. Now what? You expect a title winning side instantly. Get out of SAF's shadows & realise even an experienced wenger hasn't won anything so complicated in years.
I do admit the lack of squad depth is a bad move but oncd a style is set up in a squad; currently possesion- then it becomes easy as p*ss to see what players are capable and incapable of doing so. We have enough money and space in the squad for thr best players for the best role. Lets not start crying the fact an aging van persie or an inconsistent nani were really going to be counted upon. Should we have kept falcao too?
Van gaal is a driving instructor teaching the squad how to drive but ultimately he is a instructor who does not allow the squad to rest & take it easy.
After practice doing the same thing & maybe with a different instructor who says ' your 70% there - just continue & relax a little' we will have a team that passes any test thrust upon them.
Finally for anyone calling me a blind LVG supporter- that is not the case. I believe we could sack him now & we would just about be under where LVG's Barcelona & Bayern teams were when the majority of the supporters started rambling. The reason i dont want him fired is because - if he did revolutionise barca & bayern ( players said it not me) - then ultimately a bit of knowledge on the subject shows that the only way any team can one day be even BETTER than bayern & barcelona is to show him a little respect with regards to expectations and for you to try & understand what he is doing. So stop calling me a troll because i highly doubt anyone has done the research & ended up excited for out future like me and a few others.
No- let's be like city thougn & be like madrid or PSG. Instead of learning how to drive - let's keep taking taxis.
. Great advice guys. We might be slow now but not forever.
The idea that we suffering for some future great reward is about all that is left right now given results and performances are so wretched. But this idea that it will all make sense at some unspecified future date sounds like wishful thinking to me (a bit Hollywood in fact, with our seemingly toothless possession football standing in for the Karate Kid having to creosote fences). The more likely explanation is the one that's been on show month after month - an ageing but excessively proud manager struggling to adapt to a new football culture and keep up with modern developments. Even if our ugly caterpillar will eventually become an elegant butterfly, it's not unreasonable for a club of our resources to go out and hire someone who can have a positive impact on both current results of the first XI and short to medium term development of the overall club.
LvG has misjudged the premier league and he is stuck realizing the players he has brought in cannot roll teams let alone compete with Arsenal and Man City when they are on song. He is going to have to make some fast compromises with his visions of how to play because the corporate hounds are circling their wagons and when that happens a man, any man, will get shafted, battered, eaten to a husk, and impaled on a flagpole at the foot of his own street to teach a lesson to his peer group faster than Fellaini puts up his elbows to protect his hair.
Not bragging complaining.
As you have said we have major problems breaking down defences.
Although the Newcastle game was disappointing the fact that we had led 2-0 and then 3-2 gave me hope that we might win the match. I would rather have that hope however fleeting rather than the desolation of endless 0-0 draws.
I wouldn't call myself a LvG supporter or a hater, but I don't think the blame rests with him alone. Our attackers are just not quality. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The managers job is to create a platform for the players to perform off of. Having possession, a large % of which is JUST outside the other teams box, is providing that platform. LvG doesn't control the quality of the end product any more than we do. If the players cannot create with 70% possession and large stints of it just outside the box, I'm not sure how anyone can really ignore the players role in that.
Other things to note. Has anyone thought, that maybe LvG's possession based tactics are because he knows how absolutely dire our defense is? I know we have tremendous defensive stats, leading the league maybe? However, how much of that is from holding the ball for 70% of the game, and how much of that is from actual defending? Because, it seems like whenever we actually try to defend, we get torn apart. Any team that attacks us with pace and directness, pretty much waltzes through our defense and takes target practice at DDG.
I will also note, that our defensive performances have gotten consistently worse since the fans began clamoring for more attacking, risk taking football. Chants of attack attack attack, have in a way pressured LvG into making the team more open, but at the same time, it seems to be exposing our defense to having to actually, you know, defend.
Maybe I'm wrong, and this is all LvG's fault, but, having been involved in sports at a competitive level into my 20's, I don't really see how. A manager can deploy the wrong plays/tactics, and misread the strengths and weaknesses of a team/player. They don't however, retard fundamentals. Like knowing where to stand. Knowing how to defend. Knowing how to mark. Knowing how to pass.
There is a difference between players being used incorrectly, and players not performing. Right now, our problem is at both ends. Some players are certainly being misused. However, there is also a general lack of execution in terms of performance by the players. From my perspective, it looks to me like the players ARE trying, they are playing their hearts out, so I don't think it's a case of guys giving up on the manager. I think it's a case of guys shitting the bed + misusing a couple of guys.
Mata for instance is criminally played out of position whenever he is deployed on a wing. Incidentally, while I think many would consider Martial wide being another mistake, I think right now it is the correct place for him. Out wide he WILL get touches, and he WILL get space to influence the match. When he has played centrally, he often gets isolated and hung out to dry. Out wide he has more opportunity to influence the match.
If LvG is guilty of anything, I think it's in the transfer market. Other than a couple of guys, the majority are just not good enough. We have plenty of depth, but very little quality. Depth is something you should pursue, AFTER quality.
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
Other things to note. Has anyone thought, that maybe LvG's possession based tactics are because he knows how absolutely dire our defense is? I know we have tremendous defensive stats, leading the league maybe? However, how much of that is from holding the ball for 70% of the game, and how much of that is from actual defending? Because, it seems like whenever we actually try to defend, we get torn apart. Any team that attacks us with pace and directness, pretty much waltzes through our defense and takes target practice at DDG.
I will also note, that our defensive performances have gotten consistently worse since the fans began clamoring for more attacking, risk taking football. Chants of attack attack attack, have in a way pressured LvG into making the team more open, but at the same time, it seems to be exposing our defense to having to actually, you know, defend.
Maybe I'm wrong, and this is all LvG's fault, but, having been involved in sports at a competitive level into my 20's, I don't really see how. A manager can deploy the wrong plays/tactics, and misread the strengths and weaknesses of a team/player. They don't however, retard fundamentals. Like knowing where to stand. Knowing how to defend. Knowing how to mark. Knowing how to pass.
There is a difference between players being used incorrectly, and players not performing. Right now, our problem is at both ends. Some players are certainly being misused. However, there is also a general lack of execution in terms of performance by the players. From my perspective, it looks to me like the players ARE trying, they are playing their hearts out, so I don't think it's a case of guys giving up on the manager. I think it's a case of guys shitting the bed + misusing a couple of guys.
Mata for instance is criminally played out of position whenever he is deployed on a wing. Incidentally, while I think many would consider Martial wide being another mistake, I think right now it is the correct place for him. Out wide he WILL get touches, and he WILL get space to influence the match. When he has played centrally, he often gets isolated and hung out to dry. Out wide he has more opportunity to influence the match.
If LvG is guilty of anything, I think it's in the transfer market. Other than a couple of guys, the majority are just not good enough. We have plenty of depth, but very little quality. Depth is something you should pursue, AFTER quality.
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
Fantastic post.
Just like you it is the transfer market nuisance that has let us down. I don't know if thats Woodward or LVG's fault either. He isn't completely blameless neither is he deserving of punishment.
As you said- we have a foundation platform that players use to play on. No doubt if messi played for chelsea- he would get goals. However if a team has 3 times more possession - in theory he should be able to amass 3 times more goals.
All that i see are players clearly not capable & the reason fans like you and I have a slight more different view is because instead of being butt-hurt about a draw - it is the same players that are letting us down.
I said mata was going to struggle before the first game of the season just reading about van gaal tactics alone.
It's bad enough this being wrong, but it's boringly and stupidly wrong to boot.
I don't think it's farfetched to suggest that van Gaal has laid the foundations. It's just that they have already disintergrated.
He's good in small dosages.
Unfortunately we've kept him past that point. Worse yet, we've given him free reign in decision making. He needs a filter, like he had at Bayern.
Why didn't he lay these foundations the first time he was at Barcelona? Why did it require them to have a collection of some of the greatest players in decades before his foundations bore fruit?
Oh dear. The pro- van gaal guys are thinking about the past are we!!!?? If anything we are the one thinking about the future - not even the near future but a club completely in sync with its style of football for 10-15 years plus!
If we really are only backing van gaal because of his past then god forbid Mourinho- erase his past & we have a relegation struggler.
Seriously- did no-one do any research on van gaal when we hired him? 80% of his players, CEO's & other managers only have legendary things to say about him. It is not me who is saying he influenced the current bayern & barcelona sides - it is the players!!!
While every club be that at barca, bayern & now united - it is the fans who carry the impatience.. I thought maybe we could learn something. If bayern & barca did improve in such an shortened and vigorous period; maybe just maybe we could show some patience & squeeze every ounce of knowledge out of him aslong as realistic expectations are met.
We spent the majority of the 250 mil on the first year when our business plan in qualifying for the CL was the most important thing. Now what? You expect a title winning side instantly. Get out of SAF's shadows & realise even an experienced wenger hasn't won anything so complicated in years.
I do admit the lack of squad depth is a bad move but oncd a style is set up in a squad; currently possesion- then it becomes easy as p*ss to see what players are capable and incapable of doing so. We have enough money and space in the squad for thr best players for the best role. Lets not start crying the fact an aging van persie or an inconsistent nani were really going to be counted upon. Should we have kept falcao too?
Van gaal is a driving instructor teaching the squad how to drive but ultimately he is a instructor who does not allow the squad to rest & take it easy.
After practice doing the same thing & maybe with a different instructor who says ' your 70% there - just continue & relax a little' we will have a team that passes any test thrust upon them.
Finally for anyone calling me a blind LVG supporter- that is not the case. I believe we could sack him now & we would just about be under where LVG's Barcelona & Bayern teams were when the majority of the supporters started rambling. The reason i dont want him fired is because - if he did revolutionise barca & bayern ( players said it not me) - then ultimately a bit of knowledge on the subject shows that the only way any team can one day be even BETTER than bayern & barcelona is to show him a little respect with regards to expectations and for you to try & understand what he is doing. So stop calling me a troll because i highly doubt anyone has done the research & ended up excited for out future like me and a few others.
No- let's be like city thougn & be like madrid or PSG. Instead of learning how to drive - let's keep taking taxis.
. Great advice guys. We might be slow now but not forever.
deludedhe used pyrite to build the foundations, that's why there are cracks appearing already
A sandwich short...
shush you. LVG is god remember, he first built Adam and Eve, then Barcelona and Bayern
by his own hand.
I actually think he bought very well. He just can't seem to inspire a team to play football.
Exactly. It's ridiculous to think this.
Sports people improve, by pushing themselves and gradually improving performances, inching up the ladder slowly but surely to eventually becoming the best.
You don't play badly on purpose with some grand plan that the worse you play today, the better you will play in the future. This is some bizarre thinking.
In private, I'm sure that losing and drawing like we do is not part of LVG's short, medium or long term plan.
EDIT: this "we must lose now to be great later" is what got LFC into trouble and has seen them without a league title in decades.
You shall not eat that fruit, yeah you fat Eve, there.
these people. Hpw they think they are funny is beyond me.Who the hell said we are playing badly on purpose =/
Jheeze. We are playing badly because the squad is still learning to ' ride its bike'. Some players will never do it either - leading to the complaints some player made from the inside.
Hilarious. People think barcelona & bayern were structured on money! How they cna call me deluded is beyond me when it is the players like xavi who are saying that van gaal was a manager 10 years beyond his time.
Now all you know it all's - tell me why xavi is wrong & i should believe you instead
Jheeze. We are playing badly because the squad is still learning to ' ride its bike'. Some players will never do it either - leading to the complaints some player made from the inside.
Hilarious. People think barcelona & bayern were structured on money! How they cna call me deluded is beyond me when it is the players like xavi who are saying that van gaal was a manager 10 years beyond his time.
Now all you know it all's - tell me why xavi is wrong & i should believe you instead
It's a British and Irish thing to cope with disaster; dunkirk, the blitz, when you're sat on the roof with the floodwaters rising, your house has burned down, or your football club has made itself the national laughing stock, then we joke. They don't have to be good jokes, but as the saying goes, you've got to laugh or you'd cry.
I think he has.
Schneiderlin, Herrera and Darmian are good signings.
Memphis and Shaw were among the best young prospects in European football.
Bastian brought the experience we lacked.
Martial a superstar to be.
He should have signed more , but his signings have been competent.
It's just that his philosophy leaves those players looking far worse than the sum of their parts.
It's a bit of a conundrum for the Van Gaalites. They want to lavish their leader with as much praise as possible (see the ridiculous of the two world cups in this thread), but admitting that the players he's signed are good is also a tacit admission that his philosophy has failed this players then.
So they're 'go to' strategy is to claim that the players are not good enough (with the overwhelming majority of our players being Van Gaal signings) and the solution is for Van Gaal to sign even more players.
Nah I don't have any motivation to start a thread on LVG, the discussion has become far too repetitive and would only descend into another circular argument of opposing viewpoints unwilling to see any type of middle ground. I will continue to comment but starting a thread is far too much commitment for me
I don't care about Louis van Gaal or what happens to him, I'm not trying to defend or attack him.
I don't have a problem with his work though but I could be wrong in my opinion since i'm in the extreme minority, still I'm not going to be influenced by the crowd, this is my observation, it's what I see and time will show whether the current work is good or bad.
Our attack
Arsenal and City's quality players are in attack as opposed to defence, it's sensible for them to play more attacking.
United's current quality players are in defence (De Gea + Smalling) so it's sensible to keep it defensive (for now).
Current Rooney, Juan Mata, a young Depay, a young Martial, a young Lingard, a young Januzaj, they aren't going to offer what Sanchez or Ozil do, what Kane does, Aguero, Silva, whoever.
When Aguero was 21, he scored for Atletico Madrid 19 goals in 54 matches (0.35 per game) and now Martial has 8 in 23 (0.35 per game).
It is worth noting Aguero the two seasons prior to being 21 had a higher goals to game ratio, the above figure is just to compare, to emphasise the point Martial is young and inconsistent, he is our best attacker but more comparable to a young Aguero than the current version.
The future of this attack
Our attack will be excellent, that's the point of signing Depay and Martial, promoting Lingard, yielding to Adnan's wishes so not to lose him, to go to Dortmund even though the manager wanted him to get guaranteed games at a less competitive club, we obviously respect Januzaj and felt it was best for him to realise the hard way he needs to work and prove himself, Louis told him he wouldn't get games before he went.
This attack will be incredible but we have to wait until that happens, Louis knows it, Giggs knows it, Woodward probably knows it and it's important the fans respect this too, well it's not important because the staff won't care too much what we think if they believe in the potential of our attacking players but it makes life easier for those players and coaching staff.
I have consistently read on here how Louis van Gaal's methods have caused Martial to become ineffective, the dislike for the manager has clouded the judgement of him sometimes, last season for Monaco Martial had 0.26 goals per game, this season he is at 0.35 goals per game, he is progressing as he should.
While Martial is respected by all, opinions are divided on Memphis, Lingard and Adnan, we have a manager who has a good record with young players, if he thinks they are good enough then they probably are.
Stop gap?
Surely the only way that attack develops is by those guys playing as opposed to being hindered by stop gaps, yes it means Memphis will make an error leading to a conceded late goal or Lingard will miss a sitter like we saw both against Newcastle, it means dropped points and fans calling for the sack, it's a risky and bold move from the manager but I respect it and I hope it works out for us.
We now have seven players for four positions, Lingard, Memphis, Adnan, Martial, Rooney, Mata, Herrera, it's not bad as far as quantity goes, the quality might or might not show with what is left this season but hopefully it will in the next because the conditions are right for the four with potential to develop, the fact there are 4 players for 7 positions means plenty of games but also it's not that difficult to take the position away from their senior team mates.
The only thing I ask is we get top four whatever the football might be and the young players keep getting their chances despite their mistakes, this is what Louis van Gaal seems to want too, it's important we keep hold of them and develop them.
Louis van Gaal's system
The system hasn't been that bad, it has got the ball consistently to players in the final third with the opposition defence pinned back but the quality has been lacking to make something happen.
Is the system preventing goals?
Robben had his best goal scoring season in his career under Louis van Gaal, so did Luis Figo, Ribery had his fourth best, a young Muller managed 19 goals in Louis' failed second season, Olic had his best season ever in this system, Kluivert was good in it (21 goals twice at Ajax, 23 goals at Barcelona so his second best season in it). Overmars his second best season for goals scored and Rivaldo won world player of the year in this system.
Coaching?
It could be poorly coached but we do get the ball into dangerous positions only to mess up, we sometimes play well for 20 mins, we are inconsistent but when you look at our attack this is what you'd expect.
Recently Louis said something like at times he's been bored and frustrated but it's difficult in the final third because it is more intuitive and creative but the players have shown him they have the quality, they must consistently show it on the pitch though.
Lack of an effective attacker
This version of Rooney, Herrera and Mata are not on the level of the manager's previous senior attackers, they are not as good as the attack Arsenal or City have and we are waiting on our younger players to blossom into consistently effective attackers.
It's not easy to be an effective attacking side without a quality attacker who consistently scores or assists, he didn't inherit one here, it's hard to buy somebody with that quality but he has signed players that will develop into that soon.
Angel di Maria helped us last season by consistently assisting but he clearly wanted out, RVP did well in his system for Netherlands being the top scorer in qualification for the world cup but his last top season was 2012/13 when he was on fire saving us on multiple occasions, imagine if we didn't sign him? In Moyes' season he had a good goals to game ratio but it was clear he wasn't the same player, last year you could see the decline too.
If we hadn't signed RVP for £24m considering he was 29 but instead went for a Martial esque signing in attack things might be different now, but we must look at our situation as it is, we're a team without a consistently effective attacker so we're not going to be an effective attacking team but it's also a team with two or three young attackers who will be that.
Louis' future
For now though as frustrating as it is in the short term, I think it's sensible to keep things defensive, we need to ensure we produce the results though. We know Louis can attack when he has a consistently effective attacker at his disposal, if he can't produce the results by keeping things tight and defensive then we need to get somebody who can.
I don't have a problem with his work though but I could be wrong in my opinion since i'm in the extreme minority, still I'm not going to be influenced by the crowd, this is my observation, it's what I see and time will show whether the current work is good or bad.
Our attack
Arsenal and City's quality players are in attack as opposed to defence, it's sensible for them to play more attacking.
United's current quality players are in defence (De Gea + Smalling) so it's sensible to keep it defensive (for now).
Current Rooney, Juan Mata, a young Depay, a young Martial, a young Lingard, a young Januzaj, they aren't going to offer what Sanchez or Ozil do, what Kane does, Aguero, Silva, whoever.
When Aguero was 21, he scored for Atletico Madrid 19 goals in 54 matches (0.35 per game) and now Martial has 8 in 23 (0.35 per game).
It is worth noting Aguero the two seasons prior to being 21 had a higher goals to game ratio, the above figure is just to compare, to emphasise the point Martial is young and inconsistent, he is our best attacker but more comparable to a young Aguero than the current version.
The future of this attack
Our attack will be excellent, that's the point of signing Depay and Martial, promoting Lingard, yielding to Adnan's wishes so not to lose him, to go to Dortmund even though the manager wanted him to get guaranteed games at a less competitive club, we obviously respect Januzaj and felt it was best for him to realise the hard way he needs to work and prove himself, Louis told him he wouldn't get games before he went.
This attack will be incredible but we have to wait until that happens, Louis knows it, Giggs knows it, Woodward probably knows it and it's important the fans respect this too, well it's not important because the staff won't care too much what we think if they believe in the potential of our attacking players but it makes life easier for those players and coaching staff.
I have consistently read on here how Louis van Gaal's methods have caused Martial to become ineffective, the dislike for the manager has clouded the judgement of him sometimes, last season for Monaco Martial had 0.26 goals per game, this season he is at 0.35 goals per game, he is progressing as he should.
While Martial is respected by all, opinions are divided on Memphis, Lingard and Adnan, we have a manager who has a good record with young players, if he thinks they are good enough then they probably are.
Stop gap?
Surely the only way that attack develops is by those guys playing as opposed to being hindered by stop gaps, yes it means Memphis will make an error leading to a conceded late goal or Lingard will miss a sitter like we saw both against Newcastle, it means dropped points and fans calling for the sack, it's a risky and bold move from the manager but I respect it and I hope it works out for us.
We now have seven players for four positions, Lingard, Memphis, Adnan, Martial, Rooney, Mata, Herrera, it's not bad as far as quantity goes, the quality might or might not show with what is left this season but hopefully it will in the next because the conditions are right for the four with potential to develop, the fact there are 4 players for 7 positions means plenty of games but also it's not that difficult to take the position away from their senior team mates.
The only thing I ask is we get top four whatever the football might be and the young players keep getting their chances despite their mistakes, this is what Louis van Gaal seems to want too, it's important we keep hold of them and develop them.
Louis van Gaal's system
The system hasn't been that bad, it has got the ball consistently to players in the final third with the opposition defence pinned back but the quality has been lacking to make something happen.
Is the system preventing goals?
Robben had his best goal scoring season in his career under Louis van Gaal, so did Luis Figo, Ribery had his fourth best, a young Muller managed 19 goals in Louis' failed second season, Olic had his best season ever in this system, Kluivert was good in it (21 goals twice at Ajax, 23 goals at Barcelona so his second best season in it). Overmars his second best season for goals scored and Rivaldo won world player of the year in this system.
Coaching?
It could be poorly coached but we do get the ball into dangerous positions only to mess up, we sometimes play well for 20 mins, we are inconsistent but when you look at our attack this is what you'd expect.
Recently Louis said something like at times he's been bored and frustrated but it's difficult in the final third because it is more intuitive and creative but the players have shown him they have the quality, they must consistently show it on the pitch though.
Lack of an effective attacker
This version of Rooney, Herrera and Mata are not on the level of the manager's previous senior attackers, they are not as good as the attack Arsenal or City have and we are waiting on our younger players to blossom into consistently effective attackers.
It's not easy to be an effective attacking side without a quality attacker who consistently scores or assists, he didn't inherit one here, it's hard to buy somebody with that quality but he has signed players that will develop into that soon.
Angel di Maria helped us last season by consistently assisting but he clearly wanted out, RVP did well in his system for Netherlands being the top scorer in qualification for the world cup but his last top season was 2012/13 when he was on fire saving us on multiple occasions, imagine if we didn't sign him? In Moyes' season he had a good goals to game ratio but it was clear he wasn't the same player, last year you could see the decline too.
If we hadn't signed RVP for £24m considering he was 29 but instead went for a Martial esque signing in attack things might be different now, but we must look at our situation as it is, we're a team without a consistently effective attacker so we're not going to be an effective attacking team but it's also a team with two or three young attackers who will be that.
Louis' future
For now though as frustrating as it is in the short term, I think it's sensible to keep things defensive, we need to ensure we produce the results though. We know Louis can attack when he has a consistently effective attacker at his disposal, if he can't produce the results by keeping things tight and defensive then we need to get somebody who can.
The other part of our predicament that many (including me) struggle to accept is just how mediocre we are. I can accept it takes time to overtake City and Arsenal to win the league and certainly to build a team to compete with the elite European teams; what I can't justify are cup exits to mediocre teams (PSV and Boro) and struggling to keep pace with West Ham and Leicester. The focus on long-term (if that is what it is) is also contrary to Van Gaal's comments when he joined - then all the talk was about being first and winning trophies (as he managed at Bayern and Barcelona to be fair), not a Moyesian 6 year project where criticism is suspended while the masterpiece is slowly assembled behind the curtain.
West Ham and Leicester haven't had the parked bus like we have, I'd expect them to have a weaker second half of the season, even after Rodgers' good season Liverpool struggled and it wasn't just Suarez, sides approached them completely differently and they didn't have that momentum, even Southampton looked likely to take fourth at a point last season but things changed, there is usually some sort of surprise although Leicester have done brilliantly.
Louis van Gaal said in his interview with Neville just after the start of his first season he'll leave behind a very good basis but he'd like to win a trophy because he has done it everywhere he has gone. He obviously wants the title and to leave something of quality behind, but he won't waste money on stop gaps, he is genuinely interested in spending only to improve the team, even this season he said something like it shall be difficult but if we are in the race at the end we shall grab it.
He was probably expecting Memphis to perform better than he has and Mata + Rooney to be more effective too, if we had that we'd have more points, he went into the season with a squad that he probably thought could challenge for the title but also players he could mould into a system that will play with each other for years to come and this summer he probably planned to finish that off with the final two or three positions.
17 games to play is a lot of football, 6 points behind City and 9 behind Arsenal who like to throw things away so it's not over yet, the problem isn't so much the points but that we look awful, last season though it looked as if we'd miss out on top four at one point not because of our points total but the way we were playing however then everything changed and opinions on this board too, most feel though that won't happen this season. At Barcelona in his second season he lost 4 in a row in the league but still won it, he goes on these crazy runs, even in his failed season at Barcelona when he got the sack he equalled the record for most consecutive wins in the champions league with 10 wins in a row but because he got the sack the next manager broke the record.
The only way we do it is with an in form Rooney which is highly unlikely but you never know, LvG doesn't seem to think he's lost it, surely if he was as bad in training as he is on the pitch he'd be out of the side, we'll find out over the next few games.
We'll see where he is come the end of the season but if it's not at least a title challenge then he has obviously under performed. I still think our attack has the potential to be quality in the near future, we have to be sensible with the summer signings, another player or two who is probably going to be one of the best in his position and ready for the step up would be nice.
The parked bus is only effective because we play right into its hands
I find it hard not to support LVG when the media are acting like a bunch of schoolboy cnuts toward him. Seeing them all snivelling and laughing at him during press conferences is infuriating, how can such a bunch of non-achieving wankers think that they're in a place to do that to one of the most successful managers in the modern game. He's our manager and I think we should support him - it's not our job to hire and fire people, leave that to the board.
I don't know how accurate this is, but this seems to state we've had 55% possession over the course of our games.
http://www.squawka.com/teams/manche...eason-2015/2016#165#all-matches#1-21#by-match
I want him gone but there is something about the old buzzard I like. As much as i want him gone I would also love it if he turned it all around and proved us all wrong.
I would like that too, but time is running out. Coincidentally we are back to the liverpool match like last year.
Love the post, don't agree with everything but well written.
Oh dear. The pro- van gaal guys are thinking about the past are we!!!?? If anything we are the one thinking about the future - not even the near future but a club completely in sync with its style of football for 10-15 years plus!
If we really are only backing van gaal because of his past then god forbid Mourinho- erase his past & we have a relegation struggler.
Seriously- did no-one do any research on van gaal when we hired him? 80% of his players, CEO's & other managers only have legendary things to say about him. It is not me who is saying he influenced the current bayern & barcelona sides - it is the players!!!
While every club be that at barca, bayern & now united - it is the fans who carry the impatience.. I thought maybe we could learn something. If bayern & barca did improve in such an shortened and vigorous period; maybe just maybe we could show some patience & squeeze every ounce of knowledge out of him aslong as realistic expectations are met.
We spent the majority of the 250 mil on the first year when our business plan in qualifying for the CL was the most important thing. Now what? You expect a title winning side instantly. Get out of SAF's shadows & realise even an experienced wenger hasn't won anything so complicated in years.
I do admit the lack of squad depth is a bad move but oncd a style is set up in a squad; currently possesion- then it becomes easy as p*ss to see what players are capable and incapable of doing so. We have enough money and space in the squad for thr best players for the best role. Lets not start crying the fact an aging van persie or an inconsistent nani were really going to be counted upon. Should we have kept falcao too?
Van gaal is a driving instructor teaching the squad how to drive but ultimately he is a instructor who does not allow the squad to rest & take it easy.
After practice doing the same thing & maybe with a different instructor who says ' your 70% there - just continue & relax a little' we will have a team that passes any test thrust upon them.
Finally for anyone calling me a blind LVG supporter- that is not the case. I believe we could sack him now & we would just about be under where LVG's Barcelona & Bayern teams were when the majority of the supporters started rambling. The reason i dont want him fired is because - if he did revolutionise barca & bayern ( players said it not me) - then ultimately a bit of knowledge on the subject shows that the only way any team can one day be even BETTER than bayern & barcelona is to show him a little respect with regards to expectations and for you to try & understand what he is doing. So stop calling me a troll because i highly doubt anyone has done the research & ended up excited for out future like me and a few others.
No- let's be like city thougn & be like madrid or PSG. Instead of learning how to drive - let's keep taking taxis.
. Great advice guys. We might be slow now but not forever.
People in general pay a lot of attention to the short term though, so there will be unrest if we are underperforming, hopefully we can pull through better than we would have been if we had got back on the sack merry go round, and I think you're correct and that we will
Barcelona lost a game while having 5 times Celtic's possession.
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The board and every opposing fan!
I am not sure if that is your point but the mere fact that instances when the team that wins possession ends up losing a game are so vividly remembered is in itself proof that possession football has higher chances of succeeding. Nobody in their right mind think possession wins you games but what people like Pep or LvG or many others think is that possession gives you a better a chance to win you games. When you look at the stats and simple logic that the more you have the ball, the likelier you are to score and less likely to concede, who can really argue with the logic. Again maybe you were being sarcastic in which case, apologies.Barcelona lost a game while having 5 times Celtic's possession.
No sarcasm, no points, simple remembrance.
If I had to make a point it will be that if you have 3 times more possession of the ball, so basically 75%, you should win by a large margin. But since we are not that great in possession and we "only" have 55% of the possession we are not in a position to dominate that heavily, especially since we are unable to control the rhythm of a game or create opportunities. LVG's main failure, for the moment, is that we are not a possession team, we have the envelop but we don't have the substance and that substance has nothing to do with world class players.
All true and can't be argued with. The argument comes in the response to this problem. To some, we should abandon it and look for another way. To others, we should work harder to make it better, To make that 55% more and become a heavily dominant team. I am with the latter as I believe that this style we are talking about is probably the most difficult in football with the highest ceiling in terms of success so it makes sense that it takes longer to perfect. Barcelona have had a whole club structure dedicated to it for more than a decade for example before they reached that level. I disagree with the former because scrapping a plan because it isn't working perfectly after a year and half will lead us nowhere. A style that has so much potential is worth sticking with for longer even if it means struggling now.