In the back of my mind I'm thinking "What do we do if we have Pep Guardiola and a massive transfer budget and we still play like cr#p?" What happens then? What if LVG isn't the problem?
Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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How about we worry about that when we get Pep & a massive budget!
we don't know what he's writing down there. he could be playing noughts and crosses with Giggs for all we know.
It could be one of his several thousand resignation letters...or the same one that keeps getting sent back.
LOL. Or maybe sudoku.
I get the idea that the players should 'know' what to do and what is expected, but his nonchalance & sitting just reeks of not caring. No urgency, no intensity. That attitude will eventually seep into the players and it seems it already has.
I don't think Pep is the right guy for us, so it wouldn't surprise me. I think he's very similar to Van Gaal in a lot of ways.
The point is that we might just be making matters worse by blaming the manager for a structural problem with our player recruitment.
Even Paddy Crerand has started running us down. Going as far as saying that we've been rubbish all season. We must be bad.
Mourinho does as well.
The only weird thing about LVG's notetaking is when he does it when we score...wonder what he writes down
I love the way our players should know what to do, yet no players from other teams do, because their managers are always up on the touchline giving out instructions. Maybe he should have signed players who all have university degrees, because funny enough footballers can deal with most things if given clear instructions, note the word clear. Other times they do need some help. You cannot prepare for every eventuality in a game. It's a lazy and easy way to plant the blame back onto your players when maybe it is you not doing your job properly.
Now when someone mentioned Paddy,anyone has a video of his recent rant?
"I was right. Tell players."
I think it's very likely. Continental managers are often primarily head coach and transfer matters are mostly left to the club management or a director of football. While SAF was a gifted coach, he really shone in playing the transfer market. Guaridiola might squeeze a few percent more performance out of the current squad and bring one or two players he used to work with but unless the man has hidden talents I don't see him assemble a world class team from scratch.
One does winder!
It's a small point I don't want to come across as obsessing about this point. I get the occasional note here and there. But it seems like LVG is writing notes to himself throughout the entire match. I'd love to know what could be so important that happens in a game that must be noted immediately in written form. I'm sure it's good stuff but I wish it translated into improved performances on the pitch.
Yes, but he's more about possession and requires players with better technique. A massive budget won't help because the players he needs aren't for sale in big numbers. Maybe one finished product and one promising player every year, that's about it.
Not in his latter years. His signings didn't really work out besides RVP, who didn't require a special eye to find, and who actually didn't work out as a signing for the future.
It's impossible. All the top class squads are build over many years, just steadily improving year by year with a only a few top signings and a few youngsters with promise.
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It takes him 19 months to figure that out? Anyone who watches the team for 10 minutes will be able to figure that out.
Moyes was such a big failure here too, and we replaced with the man who we thought was going to solve all that. It didnt.
At first glance, one would argue that vindicated Moyes , that the job was too hard and fans underestimated the work to be done.
But then you really look at why they both failed. There is very little similarities with them. Not even their squads. For me its simply two struggling managers not up for the job that just followed the other.
What I am saying, is that if Pep comes here, changes our playing style..sells over 20 players and spends 250 mil and fails, it wont be on Van Gaal or the club, it'll be on him.
Then we should just give up football.
The sad thing is, VG is so completely clueless, if Newcastle went 2-0 ahead we would have lost
We've been over the spending argument, his net spend of £129m or whatever it is equates to £64.5m per season, that's not a fortune for a top club just tweaking their squad nevermind rebuilding a brand new one and so i'm not sure how you can say he has spent a fortune.
And also with your final point the credit shouldn't go to any one individual, who do you credit for Barcelona's incredible successful period? Messi, Xaviesta, Guardiola? All that came before them, the board, the list goes on, they are who they are because of a lot of people.
The manager is limited in what he can do, limited by his circumstance, had Guardiola been of a different age and taken over in 1997 he would not have done what he did 10 years later.
Anyway it's up to you, if you want to look for one person who you can credit with all the glory then so be it.
Even a mutual parting of ways at the end of the season doesn't mean Louis van Gaal's work was a failure, it just means the club feel he has given them what they wanted and now they want somebody else because the circumstances are different and that somebody else will be better suited.
I think it was the Bayern CEO who said the best thing we did was sign Louis van Gaal, the second best thing we did was sack him.
The most sensible thing the board can do right now is to enter into negotiations with Mourinho's and Guardiola's representatives. And also explore installing a director of football who would be tasked with ensuring the squad is the best it can be (e.g. youth player development, transfers etc.) who would work in collaboration with the head coach tasked with winning trophies with that squad.
The board are probably doing both.
His net spend is only that low because he had to sell Di Maria after failing to get the best out of him. He also had the benefit of that player for a season. It's not a sign of good work on his part at all.
How far back in his latter years are we going? Because De Gea, Smalling and Young are three of Van Gaal's best performers. In fact I would say his top three.
Smalling and Young have developped very well under Van Gaal, but Smalling has fallen back considerably since november and Young shouldn't be a starter at the level United should be. There've been a lot of signings that didn't work out, if the development of the squad is steady and balance, there's no need to play 40 year olds and get players back from retirement, nor do you have two most important attacking players past it only a year later.
Would agree with this.
The thing is, we haven't got in a top tier manager yet. LVG is a level below, and Moyes is probably a few below that.
I still find it crazy to think one of, if not the biggest club in the world, didn't go for one of the top level managers when SAF left - one of the biggest things to happen in football ever (and I don't accept that none were available because that could've and should've been planned around).
Anyway, my point is that we'll know where we really stand with a top manager, and will be in the best possible position to move forward even if things aren't amazing from the off.
The failure to sign at least one (young) top class CM before retiring is the obvious criticism one can level at Fergie. The rest is not so clear cut. He left plenty for others to work with.
As regards attacking players, I'm fairly sure he wanted Moyes to get rid of Rooney - so that doesn't count against him. Ideally, he should have pulled the trigger on Rooney himself - but you can't win them all, and it wasn't an obvious short-term move.
Fergie probably saw Kagawa in the hole with RVP leading the line as the way to go for Moyes. And Kagawa could have been a roaring success - hindsight is 20-20 and all that.
The hatred is so, so, so over the top on here now. It's gotten to the point where I view visiting the football forums on Redcafe as roughly on a par with visiting RAWK.
He's a man, with a good track record, trying his best. He has made some good signings, and the team looked good in parts this season. We are still in with a chance of winning the league.
From the posts on here though, you'd think LvG had just invaded Poland and his latest presser was about lebensraum.
He's a man, with a good track record, trying his best. He has made some good signings, and the team looked good in parts this season. We are still in with a chance of winning the league.
From the posts on here though, you'd think LvG had just invaded Poland and his latest presser was about lebensraum.
And plenty of the players Van Gaal has signed shouldn't be starters either. If Fergie had stayed then Rooney may have left and been replaced. Nobody would've called for Rooney to be replaced prior to 12/13 so not much he could've done there. Van Persie continued to have a very good record even under Moyes. It only diminished when your messiah came on board. He also had back up in Welbeck and Hernandez that while not being top drawer footballers does allow some breathing space between replacing your best players with new ones. Van Gaal chose to dispense with them. Fergie's problem in the latter years was a lack of investment more than his own supposed failings. And even in his last few years he managed to sign some of the players still performing the best for us currently.
True. Well it will run deeper than just the manager, that's what you look for in a manger though - not just managing the team but trying to impose "something more" on the club, be that structurally or whatever.
Make of "this sort of thing" what you will http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/15/manch...-langley-set-to-quit-the-club-report-5624396/
Think he's retiring. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Exactly.
A lot of of people continually say our players are crap, but yet they could perform under a top manager in Fergie.
I'd like to see what they can do before discarding all of them, especially since this is a relatively new team that Van Gaal himself built. We cant keep undergoing wholesale changes, when one of the biggest effect would come from changing just one man.
He is. Though it does use quotes in one of the other papers to say he's disillusioned. How did the press get to hear?
The notion that ranting on the sideline will make a difference in our results is absurd.
That's where the SAF issue becomes a problem. It's all centred around how he did things, including not methodically refreshing the squad for years, for whatever reason, but instead forcing players out of position. Change doesn't come pain free or quickly (or necessarily at all.)
Modern clubs have a different infrastructure, I sense. That's what City has been building for the last 5 years and why a manager like Guardiola might find it a more appealing and familiar destination. It's also why a club like Southampton can punch above its weight and (I suspect) why we now punch below ours. Changing the manager won't fix that. It may be that LVG is actually a very good manager in an impossible situation, but it's not obvious to the untrained eye.
Love it buddy. As wummish as it aounds I believe that this team can only get better. There is obvious gaps, there is obvious faults, there is obvious weaknesses in both the players & the manager. The hard thing to talk about with people is the fact that things being obvious is a big big leap forward for a team who were reliant on the best manager of all time.
When things are obvious -
A) you replace the weak players with better ones ( right now the squad is too small for this)
B) you fill the obvious gaps in the team & squad ( mata is not a RW, some would argue blind & rojo aren't that good LCB's)
C) you replace the manager
We have had such horrible performances it is in no way surprising that people want van gaal out. However, with van gaal he brings the philosophy; which is an awful awful word to use. Instead he uses a plan. The plan is greater than the manager & i hope it eventually reaches on towards the right manager.
There seems to be some sort of agenda at this time but regarding him I don't know.
Reading that 'metro' link up top, I have this irrational thought that the City Sheikh must be paying the press some back handers to constantly compare how shit our system is compared to theirs. For years the press bastards didn't focus on our youth system, now all of a sudden they can't stop talking smack about it. It wasn't always great either - since the class of 92, we haven't exactly had a seriously talented group come through. Wish they'd give it a break.
Of all the sticks to beat LVG with - I doubt a year and a half in the job could have contributed to our not up to par youth system.
Of all the sticks to beat LVG with - I doubt a year and a half in the job could have contributed to our not up to par youth system.
Seems an agenda for sure. I wonder if LVG and whomever are trying to overhaul the system, and by doing that they may have to let go of some underperforming staff/coaches who resent being thrown out from their comfortable positions? That will breed serious discontent and bitterness, especially if they've been there a while. You see it all the time in the ordinary working world, it's human nature after all.
Five full backs injured, that's insane, i'm not sure what the timeline regarding the returns from injury are for us but as Carrick, Bastian, Valencia, Young, Jones, Rojo, Shaw and whoever else start returning to our squad we will only put more points on the board.
That's a positive for our season whether LvG gets the sack or not.
That's a positive for our season whether LvG gets the sack or not.
He himself said he wanted him to stay but Angel di Maria wanted to go and he didn't want to stand in his way.
This is irrelevant anyway because the money recouped from Angel di Maria was able to be reinvested (in this case into Martial) thus costing the club less overall therefore when you look at his net spend and the fact we did a rebuild, he hasn't spent a fortune at all and any argument he has is born out of ignorance.
I'm not sure what the cost to the club will be if he fails to get top four, David Moyes cost us a lot there I felt, that's where he'll cost us if things don't change starting with Stoke.