But he had that player for a year. The money was still spent. Net spend is always a useless argument. Money spent is money spent. Having a high net spend is usually a sign of poor management. Signing a player for £60m one year and selling him the next for £45m is always a bad thing. It makes no difference if the money spent came from a player sale or from an official tea bag partner. His rebuild has left us short on players and needing to spend more to get it up to scratch so factor that in if you want to talk about his spending.
Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Money spent is influenced by money recouped, this is basic finances. The money recouped was reinvested into Martial, you wait and see what he becomes, you'll soon change your mind about the decision.
We aren't short on players, when you have five full backs injured then obviously the squad will look small but who on earth buys two first choice full backs with four squad options? You use players from the youth team, that's common sense.
Christ alive I really hope so! Relegation form being shown over the past while, if we can't get better than this? God help us.
Yes but transfers out are not the only way to raise money. The money was there regardless. I don't believe for a second that you actually think Di Maria leaving is the only reason we could afford Martial. If I spend £1000 on a tv is that not money spent because I've raised the money through working?
We have two full backs injured. Three if we want to count Valencia. The others are a winger and a centre back. If you count Valencia as a full back we have 7 players for four positions in defence. So we're light in numbers and quality. Being light there has meant playing Young in defence which leaves us with three wide players for two positions so we're light there even without injuries. If Martial has to play out wide then we have one striker. So we're light there. To play behind a striker we have two options because one of them also has to play out wide. That's Fellaini and Herrera. Light and lacking quality. In the centre of modified we have number but no real balance because only one of them has any real attacking instinct and Van Gaal won't play him there. The only area we aren't light is in nets and he doesn't even rest De Gea in cup games.
The argument was Louis van Gaal has spent a fortune however then you have to factor what he has recouped. The money recouped would increase what he can spend, what is difficult to understand?
What do you expect him to do? Give the Angel di Maria money to the Glazer family picnic fund? Obviously it will be put back into buying players. This is the man who was told by Ajax they couldn't afford to sign Jari Litmanen so he used his life savings to finance the transfer because he wanted him so much.
Three if we want to count valencia? Louis van Gaal has never used him as anything but a full back! And Ashely Young has made that position his own (ahead of Darmian) after failing to make the winger spots his own, he has made it his own because he has played it well in this system. Rojo also would be used as a full back, that's like saying Martial is a striker playing left wing or Rooney is a number 9 playing as a 10. There is this thing called versatility.
Going into the next match the only position where we need to use youth players is in the full back positions and one of them will probably be McNair who has senior experience.
If Rooney gets injured, Martial goes 9 and Depay goes LW, I'm sorry but this is really basic stuff to figure out...
Ultimately the most important person at a football club is the manager, who is bought and sold is their call, tactics, support staff, team moral, etc is all up to them, and by all accounts Lvg has been given even more power by dictating how the pre season tour should play out, re jigs at the training ground, etc, yes of course when a top player like Messi or Ronaldo comes along it makes their life easier but everything stops with the manager as far as I'm concerned.
Much as I know it's hard to sometimes hold your hands up and say perhaps I got this wrong, I feel you are deluding yourself now if you think LvG is going to leave anything other than a mess behind when he leaves.
He has sold players he shouldn't have sold, his promotion of the youth has at best been haphazard, and whilst you say £130 m net spend isn't much it simply is in the space of 2 summers, and alot of it was him taking unneeded risk also.
Kagawa, RvP, Nani, Hernandez, Zaha, Evra, Evans, all of those players sold for roughly less than we paid for Depay, and all players I would happily have back in the squad now, not to mentioned the farce of ADM, surely you can see that it wasn't the above players that was the problem given their form since they left us.
How the club are going to think well thanks Louis you've 'given us what we needed' now let get Pep to finish the job is beyond me, LvG came here to win us things, he said if he leaves having not won us the prem he will have failed, he isn't going to get close, so surely that means he's failed badly, or are we just selectively lowering the expectations of him as we go along?
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I will defend LvG if he resign.
But he has. Let's go with your net figures. He spent £100m net to accomplish fourth place. Super. He's spent a further £30m net since. Have we seen improvement on that? I don't expect him not to spend it but I don't believe having the funds to afford Martial was dependant upon selling Di Maria. Do you actually believe that?
But Young was our best winger last season and has barely been given a chance or been able to play there this season. Guess why? It's not like his replacement has played well so it's nonsense to say he couldn't make it his own. One injury up front leaves us with nobody on the bench to change it. How can that possibly be evidence of a squad with adequate depth. We have 7 first choice recognised defenders and one of them is a midfielder. We have for most of the season had four wide players. One of those back up striker and one who had played once for our first team before this season. We've had to play Rooney every week in terrible form because we have no options. It's really basic stuff.
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net spend 
net spend DFM - 65m
net spend DFM - 65m
He rose three spaces from 7th to 4th and that's not even the point. I replied to a poster who said he has spent a fortune, with me saying he has not, he has spent on average £64.5m per season net, that's not a fortune when you are doing a rebuild.
You have posted waffle that is yet to discredit the point that he has not spent a fortune when you consider it's been a rebuild.
You also still haven't understood this statement "money recouped was reinvested into Martial", what do you think happened to the money recouped then? When you analyse our spend you must look at both the income and expenditure because the money that comes in will influence how much we have to spend. Our wage bill has also reduced as a percentage of turnover I think probably in part thanks to Louis and getting high earners off the books and also to our commercial department, I think Woodward said he wants the wage bill no more than 50% of turnover, now it's like 43% or something.
This is probably why Louis has been afforded the time he has, if he gets fourth the board might be (barely) satisfied with all things considered, i'm not saying that's the right thing but to me that's a genuine possibility.
On the topic of Young, he had his chance but didn't do well enough as a winger to establish a start role, and so Martial is ahead of him on the left, he has done well as a full back because he is a versatile player.
You said regarding Young doing well LW last season 'It's not like his replacement has played well so it's nonsense to say he couldn't make it his own.' Martial is our left winger, please stop insulting him, he has been fine this season. You just want to criticise for the sake of it I think.
I've explained to you what happens when Rooney gets injured, Martial moves to striker and Depay or Lingard off the bench is used as a LW, please can you explain to me why this is so difficult to comprehend?
Defenders:
Rojo - LB / CB
Blind - LB / CB
Shaw - LB
Darmian - LB / RB
Jones - CB
Smalling - CB
Valencia - RB
Young - RB
That's eight but you use the term 'recognised', the thing is if a player can play in defence then he can play in defence and surely Young has to be good enough if he is ahead of Darmian. He gets so much stick on here, he is a good player who works hard for the team, that has shown this season and obviously somebody who can execute instructions too.
You say our attack is short yet Wilson left because he couldn't get enough game time, excluding Adnan:
Mata
Lingard
Depay
Martial
Rooney
Herrera
Fellaini
Young
Pereira
That's nine for four positions however if we were short we go three up top or something or move to a diamond, however you must include Wilson or Januzaj as one player because Wilson was here until quite recently and now Adnan is here so it's basically for most of the season been 9 options for 4 positions.
The quality must improve but it was extremely difficult for us to sign world class players as it is for any club, we signed two players who have immense potential in Memphis and Martial and that was sensible, it's the most realistic thing but then you must wait for their quality to blossom.
The rebuild is over and this summer we need only quality although I find it unlikely we will sign a player like Bale or Muller therefore it's doing what we did with Martial but the manager has already said this.
You are stretching a bit with Fellaini, Young and Herrera. As for the rest there is a clear lack of quality.
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The manager
The most important person is not the manager, there is no most important person, the CEO, DOF, best player all have responsibilities too. In fact the most important factor is how it all comes together, in the case of Bayern they got it right, from their board and commercial activities to those involved with footballing matters outside of the manager, to the players that came in and the managers they signed, there was a lot of great work done throughout the organisation and now with Ancelotti too, they have been fantastic.
If everything stops with the manager as far as you are concerned then you'd have sacked Alex Ferguson all those years ago, as it was the board recognised his talent but the conditions weren't ripe for him to express himself.
And before you miss the point, I'm not comparing LvG's situation to that, nor am I suggesting he shouldn't be sacked, don't confuse the point, I'm just saying everything doesn't stop with the manager, other factors are important too.
My delusion
I'm not deluding myself, I just believe in players like Martial, Depay, Lingard, Adnan, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Shaw and Darmian, I also think Smalling will continue to improve on the ball and a top player will emerge from our youth system if we continue to give them chances. If we get the right replacement in then I also think we can take this possession game to the top level.
I think you are wrong if you think £129m net spend is loads over two summers for a rebuild of a team that finished 7th when Arsenal spent £73m or something in those two years despite the season before Louis came spending more time at the top of the league than any other side and City over £150m despite being the champions the season before he arrived.
And finally did you see the Kagawa thread on here?! RVP's clear decline? You want players like Nani, Hernandez, Zaha, Evra and Evans back? Yet you won't believe in Lingard, Adnan, Martial and Memphis? That's insane. Louis van Gaal has under performed in terms of results, some of his work has been good and other areas not good enough but criticising him for getting rid of those players is insanity, it had to be done, look at the clubs most of them signed for!!
Louis' expectations
Louis also said he wants us to be in the final of the champions league next season, he sets ridiculous expectations for himself, he always has done. He also said in his first season in his interview with Gary Neville when asked what he will leave behind, he said a very good basis and he hopes to win a league title because he has done that everywhere he has gone.
Besides he still has next season assuming he gets fourth, his biggest problem right now is getting goals to put points on the board.
Mad Winger
I swear I feel like Mad Winger! Except I could careless whether LvG gets sacked, whereas he'd give his kidney to see Kagawa succeed, but I'm just saying some of the points you've made are crazy.
Well the poster I replied to said Young was our best winger last season so he might be offended if I left him out. The point was there are options, Herrera is a number 10, he has the versatility and has done reasonably well there.
As I mentioned in that post the quality in our attack is lacking hence why we aren't effective in attack but what can we do? Sign Bale? We tried but it's extremely difficult.
Instead we can sign a player that could get to that level, in Depay and Martial we have done that, but then you've got the expect inconsistency and have patience until they become consistently effective attackers.
This summer also we will add quality to the team but it's likely a player with immense potential ready to make the step up as opposed to somebody in his prime.
Hey, I never said I don't believe in our young players, I am simply making the point that some of the senior players that have been let go could help us right now, clearing out the so called 'deadwood' is all well and good but you need to be sure you still have a squad capable of still competing, and it is been proven we currently do not.
Hernandez, ADM, RvP, Zaha, etc looked awful for us but now they have moved on they are showing their quality, look at our players now, everyone is looking average except for a few - Martial, Smalling, DDG, and maybe Blind, the rest are not showing anything like what they can, even Martial is on the downturn atm and is been used far too much for a young player, and what's happened to Depay is just bizarre, you can bet your last pound if LvG sells some of the players that aren't playing well - Mata, Herrera, and Depay for example, that they'd go to their new clubs and be top class again.
He has made a total hash of it, it is staring you in the face, but becasue of his reputation it is hard to accept.
Reasons to want LvG to stay...
.. That is all
.. That is all
You talk about waffle and then post that. Depay was Young's replacement. Martial has to play there because he's been shite. And I responded by saying what options does that leave us if it's not working? If one injury up front robs is of any options then it's not a good enough squad. What's difficult to comprehend?
A fortune has been spent. Where the money comes from is irrelevant as long as we have it. Utd don't need to sell players to afford Martial. Having to sell players after a season is not a good thing. You never answered my analogy. If I spend money on something does it mean I haven't spent it because I recouped the money elsewhere?
You can only include Wilson if the manager is even willing to use him. He wasn't and he's also still a player from the youth team essentially.
You're stretching with your 9 there. Herrera isn't a forward and has been beyond shite when played behind the striker. If you have to use him and Fellaini in forward positions it leaves you three midfielders. One injured most of the season and 35 and one who is 31 and constantly knackered. Pereira is also from the youth team and again the manager barely uses him because he isn't ready to play for our first team. You've already told me Young is a full back so I don't know why you're counting him as a winger because he can't play there when he's playing in defence. I'll leave you to your fantasy.
OP: Well, looks like we can count Fred Done, of BETFRED fame out!
The point is that this was a rebuild, something new for the future, the senior players that left would get in the way of that especially when you expect them to take a squad role. If Rooney doesn't turn his season around then he needs to be moved on in the summer, there's no point asking him to do a squad role because he won't be happy with that.
It's important games are given to young players, Martial has taken his chance, Lingard and Bothwick-Jackson seem to be making the most of theirs, Memphis, Januzaj and Pereira are waiting for their chance.
Those senior players had to go and now we have a squad that looks good for the future as long as we keep on top of things and make the right signings each summer, e.g. replacing Carrick
It hasn't been proven we don't have a squad capable of competing because we are five points behind Arsenal and seven behind City, Leicester have been on fire and Spurs have had a good season so these last fourteen games will be interesting but it's too early to rule this squad out, a season is 38 games.
RVP and Zaha don't look like they are good enough for where United want to go, Hernandez has already shown he isn't good enough for a top club, that's why he is at Leverkusen, and ADM Louis wanted to stay but the player wanted Paris, sometimes this happens.
Martial is on the downturn? He has done better for us than he did for Monaco!
What has happened to Memphis? He looks good from the bench but is kept out of the team by an in form Martial.
His reputation has little to do with it, the signs are there on the pitch the foundations are in place whether he stays or goes. And that's the point of this discussion, where it all started, when I stated he has put foundations in place and the new manager need only tweak what he inherits not rebuild.
The problem with you is that you have concluded the likes of Lingard and Borthwick-Jackson aren't good enough whereas I'm supporting them and saying give them a chance to show what they can do. If his name was Lingardinho everybody would be raving.
Even if those two don't prove themselves good enough, so far they are in the team on merit and that's the right thing to do. And in the future they could prove to be solid squad players like Pedro.
Personally I like the youth policy Louis van Gaal has implemented and I like this squad although clearly this summer we must add quality, more Martial like signings in positions where we need them.
I dont think we need much either; just the right player in the right position- the right wing.
Martial has looked most dangerous LW and Rooney is scoring goals, 7 in 7 so why change that?
Depay wasn't Young's replacement but a new addition to the squad hence Young retaining his place in our squad too, you have a squad of players. So far he can't get in the team ahead of Martial and Young can't either, what's wrong with that?
The squad is fine, if we have injuries then we have replacements, it's actually really simple. If we get injuries we have options, this has been shown already, you're just looking for reasons to slate Louis van Gaal and rationalise your opinion we should have kept hold of some of those we sold.
Net spend, we've been over this. £65m per season is not a fortune when you are doing a rebuild, it's insane to say it is.
If you have a TV budget of 'x' amount, and you want to buy a new tv then it depletes that budget but if you sell an existing TV that you own then that adds to the budget, it's pretty simple.
The money from Angel di Maria's sale means Louis van Gaal has more to spend. Overall his net spend has been £129m for a rebuild, City have spent over £150m and Arsenal £73m just tweaking their squad.
It's insane to say LvG has spent a fortune when you put it in context.
Look above, you are talking about options. Is he not an option? He was on the bench but there was no need to use him because we had so many options! You have basically with that statement just accepted our squad size is fine, discredited your own point and proven mine
Herrera is an attacking midfielder and central midfielder, he can play both roles, he played as a 10 the season before United signed him. Herrera has actually been good this season for us behind the striker and that's why he got a run of games, what have you been watching? Obviously he has dropped off in his last few so Mata has replaced him.
Fellaini has been used as an attacking target man.
Pereira can't get into the team, the manager barely uses him because we have so many options, again you've proven my point our squad size is fine.
On your point 'you've already told me young is a full back so I don't know why you're counting him as a winger', you yourself said he was our best winger last season! You are getting muddled, untangle this web you've got yourself into.
There is this thing called versatility, like Blind can play CB and CDM, Rojo CB and LB, Rooney ST and SS, Martial as LW and ST, you know what I'm talking about? Young can play on the wing or as a full back, or even as a wing back.
We are talking options so Young is an option at full back or winger, if we have an attacking injury crisis then Darmian can play RB and Young as a winger.
And if you want to ignore Herrera and Fellaini because as a 10 they play as attacking midfielders then we play with three forwards.
For three positions we have Memphis, Martial, Adnan, Mata, Rooney, Pereira, Young and Lingard, that's 8 players for three positions. And in the event of a highly unlikely attacking injury crisis where 6 players are out, we can go to a diamond.
That you've waited until after we played last night to respond says it all. It's just the same shite all over again. If Martial is injured we're down to players who've played less than five games for us before this season and players who just aren't playing well. If Rooney or Martial is injured and we're struggling during a game for a goal we have nobody to throw on to change the game. Repeating the same shite you've already said doesn't change that.Martial has looked most dangerous LW and Rooney is scoring goals, 7 in 7 so why change that?
Depay wasn't Young's replacement but a new addition to the squad hence Young retaining his place in our squad too, you have a squad of players. So far he can't get in the team ahead of Martial and Young can't either, what's wrong with that?
The squad is fine, if we have injuries then we have replacements, it's actually really simple. If we get injuries we have options, this has been shown already, you're just looking for reasons to slate Louis van Gaal and rationalise your opinion we should have kept hold of some of those we sold.
Net spend, we've been over this. £65m per season is not a fortune when you are doing a rebuild, it's insane to say it is.
If you have a TV budget of 'x' amount, and you want to buy a new tv then it depletes that budget but if you sell an existing TV that you own then that adds to the budget, it's pretty simple.
The money from Angel di Maria's sale means Louis van Gaal has more to spend. Overall his net spend has been £129m for a rebuild, City have spent over £150m and Arsenal £73m just tweaking their squad.
It's insane to say LvG has spent a fortune when you put it in context.
Look above, you are talking about options. Is he not an option? He was on the bench but there was no need to use him because we had so many options! You have basically with that statement just accepted our squad size is fine, discredited your own point and proven mine
Herrera is an attacking midfielder and central midfielder, he can play both roles, he played as a 10 the season before United signed him. Herrera has actually been good this season for us behind the striker and that's why he got a run of games, what have you been watching? Obviously he has dropped off in his last few so Mata has replaced him.
Fellaini has been used as an attacking target man.
Pereira can't get into the team, the manager barely uses him because we have so many options, again you've proven my point our squad size is fine.
On your point 'you've already told me young is a full back so I don't know why you're counting him as a winger', you yourself said he was our best winger last season! You are getting muddled, untangle this web you've got yourself into.
There is this thing called versatility, like Blind can play CB and CDM, Rojo CB and LB, Rooney ST and SS, Martial as LW and ST, you know what I'm talking about? Young can play on the wing or as a full back, or even as a wing back.
We are talking options so Young is an option at full back or winger, if we have an attacking injury crisis then Darmian can play RB and Young as a winger.
And if you want to ignore Herrera and Fellaini because as a 10 they play as attacking midfielders then we play with three forwards.
For three positions we have Memphis, Martial, Adnan, Mata, Rooney, Pereira, Young and Lingard, that's 8 players for three positions. And in the event of a highly unlikely attacking injury crisis where 6 players are out, we can go to a diamond.
Actually no, unlike you I don't browse these forums daily, I usually come on after matches and then respond to a series of posts. I could have responded after Derby if I wanted to wait until we played well but I didn't check my notifications.
And as for the Southampton match, I was in hospital, missed the match and so for about 10 days I wasn't going to come on here, more important things to deal with.
If Martial gets injured then Memphis gets his chance, players are hungry, they are bursting to play. And also a player can go from not playing well to hitting form instantly.
It's not like Arsenal or City won't suffer due to injuries, this is football, losing important players will affect a team but it's important your squad has options and we have options.
That's fine in theory. It's a bit risky in terms of playing the rotation game, however. You don't get to rest Player X when needed if he's the de facto backup for Player Y (who goes and gets himself injured).
But the real issue is obviously that our performances and results under LVG simply do not warrant any trust in his judgment regarding the squad. We have been terrible to watch and our current situation is that we're anything but a shoe-in for a "4th place trophy" most consider an absolute minumum - at best.
That's where all the LVG criticism comes from: The evidence so far points to him not doing everything right. The fact that he relies on youngsters and versatility for backup speaks against him as long as the results don't justify his methods. If we'd been top of the league, playing swimmingly, nobody would've questioned his policy. As it stands, you can reasonably claim that we should have replaced some of the "deadwood" with experienced players, rather than this versatility + youth formula of his. And that criticism won't go away until he has proven that he was right all along. That goes for everything regarding LVG at the moment.
People always talk about the money. So we paid all that money, and yet how many kids do we have in the first team squad? How many are English? So I think it's overrated. I think LVG could have defended himself and his position easier then he has done. We've lost not just Sir Alex but so much experience in the last 2-3 years and many over look it. We 'lost' - one way or another a whole back four in Evra Vidic Rio Rafael. Quality players. Vast experience. We lost Giggs and Scholes.....etc etc
So the turn over has been great. I just think that we've been mismanaged. LVG has done plenty good but if we had have had the right attitude from the get go, we'd be higher up the table. We're not a poor team. We were made to look a poor team because we didn't get what was being asked of us and because management didn't understand most premiership clubs have balls. IF you give them an inch, they will take it and even yesterday Stoke didn't become an easy game. They had pride enough to keep looking forwards.
Mind you the league cup game still rankles. There we were the day before, seeing lots of clubs crashing out of the competition. It was a great chance for us to progress and what did we do? We didn't play and that's not down to one player. That was the whole team basking in negativity waiting for that ONE chance. We were playing a lesser team, we should have been out there looking to overrun them at home. It's a disgrace and I hope we're seeing a change but we'll see. We should focus on ourselves and our quality and stop worrying about 99% of the other clubs.
So the turn over has been great. I just think that we've been mismanaged. LVG has done plenty good but if we had have had the right attitude from the get go, we'd be higher up the table. We're not a poor team. We were made to look a poor team because we didn't get what was being asked of us and because management didn't understand most premiership clubs have balls. IF you give them an inch, they will take it and even yesterday Stoke didn't become an easy game. They had pride enough to keep looking forwards.
Mind you the league cup game still rankles. There we were the day before, seeing lots of clubs crashing out of the competition. It was a great chance for us to progress and what did we do? We didn't play and that's not down to one player. That was the whole team basking in negativity waiting for that ONE chance. We were playing a lesser team, we should have been out there looking to overrun them at home. It's a disgrace and I hope we're seeing a change but we'll see. We should focus on ourselves and our quality and stop worrying about 99% of the other clubs.
Whatever. You were here on Friday night at least. Depay isn't a striker though. Therein lies the evidence of lack of depth. Arsenal and City have nothing to do with our squad depth.
Yes and I replied on Thursday to you so I didn't check my notifications again until today. I had 39 notifications!
What lack of depth? You mean as a striker? We have two options in Rooney and Martial and if both are injured we can recall Wilson however as has already happened, we can play Depay in the striker position who scored in the game he played there when both Rooney and Martial weren't available!
City and Arsenal, if they have their first two strikers injured who do they have?
We have one position up top, it would be pointless keeping RVP or Hernandez to be the third striker hardly getting any games, that would be disastrous for the dressing room.
That's where youth comes in, something which to LvG is very important, giving youth players a chance. As of now Borthwick-Jackson is in the team on merit and if he continues to perform like this he will keep his place. And it will do wonders for motivating our other young players to work hard.
And I haven't said LvG has done everything right, simply he has put a foundation in place which the next manager needs to tweak as opposed to us needing a new rebuild.
Our squad only needs quality over quantity from this summer, like any other club, the rebuild is over.
Jesus Christ. If we need to make two changes or play a player a winger as a striker because of an injury to Rooney then it's staring you right in the face. If Arsenal or City get an injury to one of their strikers they don't have to make two changes to replace them and leave nothing on the bench. And again they have nothing to do with Man Utd. If we go first choice and are struggling to score we can't make a single straight swap. That's a clear problem and had been all season because when Rooney was playing like shite we had no option but to keep playing him. Our problem is our second striker is also our winger. City don't have that problem and Arsenal need a striker so they aren't making your case stronger.
Well no, Martial is quality and a fantastic option as a striker so if Rooney gets injured it's common sense to use him as a striker and Memphis on LW. The alternative is a player like Bony coming off the bench but when you look at Depay's potential it makes sense to play him.
It seems the problem here is that you rate players like Bony whereas I prefer developing players like Depay.
Martial isn't only a winger, he is a player who can play both as a winger and a striker, that's like saying Neymar is a winger when he can actually play as a striker too.
Yes, but that is awfully generic, isn't it?
What he has done is to bring in some players (most of which are good purchases, I have no issue with that), get rid of others (rightly so in most cases, no issue with that either), and give minutes to youngsters whose performances have been mixed (as you'd expect).
There's no evidence to suggest that he is laying a particularly solid foundation, one which would - which is relevant in this particular context - redeem him, so to speak, and justify what people see as the blatantly negative sides of his tenure so far.
It's not remarkably astute to get rid of the players he let go, nor remarkably astute to buy the players he's brought in. Whether the youth players already at the club he has given chances come good or not is still an open question. In short, unless you can confidently conclude (and I fail to see how you can) that he is laying a foundation for the next manager which will be worth terrible football and mediocre-at-best results, there isn't much there to bring up in the shape of a convincing defense of LVG. Unless the defense is that he may have assembled a squad which the next manager can use to good effect: His critics will say that any number of managers could have achieved this given our financial resources - and that many of them could have achieved it without boring us to death in the...process.
It seems the problem here is that you fail to acknowledge then when you rely solely on players being to play in multiple positions it's not evidence of a squad with great depth. You don't acknowledge that the second Young has to play full back he is no longer an option on the wing. If Rojo is injured we lose backup in two positions. If our strikers are out of form we have no striking option on the bench. You're just making up an argument now.
I'm aware Martial can play both positions. But having to use him in one means he can't play the other at the same time and leaves us relying on players not good enough and woefully out of form. I'll ask again, how is this evidence of good depth?
We will know in the future whether the foundation is good or not, to me we are well set. That's simply been my point, quite a few posters in this thread disagreed that he has left us with a good foundation.
I also made clear in another post I'm neither attacking or defending him. I'm just saying what I see, I feel his work will benefit us like it did Bayern Munich who built on that, I think even though in Louis van Gaal's failed second season he got sacked, the players were taught well tactically even if that didn't translate onto the pitch, it gave Jupp Heynckes a solid base to work from and what he produced was magnificent. Bayern were also bored to death but their players benefitted tactically and for them it was worth it in the end, it doesn't always work out that way but you have to try.
Tactically I feel there is a foundation, as players like Martial mature breaking down a parked bus will be easy with their consistent individual brilliance and we will also be well set for big matches allowing us to compete on all fronts.
Youth policy I think has been good, long may it continue, it motivates the younger players to work harder because they know they will get their chance if they do. And I'm glad players from our academy like Borthwick-Jackson and Lingard have taken the chances they have been given, as of now they deserve their place in the first team.
Player wise I think there is a lot of potential in this squad, we need only add quality now, a young player who is one of the best in his age group ready for the step up.
Staff wise I feel Ryan Giggs' apprenticeship will serve him well in his career, whether he is the successor or becomes our manager in the future after showing his skill. I also think it's much easier to take over what Louis has left behind because of the foundation, it simply needs continuity and the manager doing the sensible thing.
Our wage bill is something like 43% of turnover, Woodward said he works on 50%, by clearing out the deadwood and their replacements not being experienced stop gaps but young players, we are in an even stronger financial situation so if the right world class players become available, we could finance a move for more than one.
A foundation isn't easy to put in place, I don't think SAF left us in great shape, Moyes couldn't do it, Mourinho doesn't do it at his clubs, and I think there's a lot of top managers who wouldn't do this, I don't think Ancelotti has demonstrated this. LvG has done a lot in two seasons and his net spend of £129m too is reasonable considering Arsenal spent £73m tweaking their squad and City over £150m tweaking their squad who were the champions of England when LvG arrived.
That's all I've said, he has left behind a good foundation and with the right managerial successor who builds on this there is so much potential.
But the season isn't over, we are getting to the business end with fourteen games to play, historically when he's needed it Louis van Gaal has gone on a run, in his second season at Barcelona in the league he lost four in a row before bouncing back with 14 wins in his next 16.
you keep saying foundation is important and all that, but what exactly is this foundation?
In the case of Young for him to be needed as an attacker we would need there to be an attacking injury crisis, and in defence there are two other senior full backs in his position and a player trying to break into the first team squad.
We have no problems with squad depth because of the versatility in this squad.
It's nice to see you are aware Martial can play in two positions, it just means somebody else plays in the other position, there is no problem with squad depth.
Players out of form will get into form by playing, and other players will get their chance like Lingard did when a player loses his place in the team.
From defence to attack, the versatility of this team means we have no problems with our squad depth. We have the second most injuries in the entire league with six right now and even then in the last match we fielded a good team with only one youth player who has taken his chance, that shows you our squad depth is fine.
There is no argument to even make, if we had the most injuries in the league we would still field a good team.
Not defend. But may as well support. He's not going anywhere. A bit of supports can do wonders to our team.
He's the kind of manager who won't get fired. Absolutely not at this stage of his career. He must flop totally (14th spot) or he's going nowhere. Many fans on here don't understand what kind of manager this is.
I would love for nothing more to see him turn it around. It would be a great story and would prove to the world Man United aren't a silly sacking club. But let's face it. He has had almost two years now and he hasn't proved himself. If anything, we've been regressing.
Prove me wrong Van Gaal.
Prove me wrong Van Gaal.
This discussion all started because you said the reason for our poor results were injuries. You're defeating your own argument. So thanks for that.
The discussion started because I said Louis van Gaal has laid down a good foundation.
And look at Arsenal, the loss of Cazorla has affected them as did the loss of Aguero to City, obviously when a team loses key players this will happen, it's no coincidence like last season with the return of Carrick we have looked better.
The squad however is fine, we have options, you don't expect City to have a back up Aguero for first team Aguero or Arsenal to have a back up Cazorla for first team Cazorla because that's insanity.
But it's one rule for Louis van Gaal, another for everybody else. This is probably the most ridiculous point made, we will never have a back up player who is as good as the first choice player but our squad has back up players when there are injuries, that is squad depth.