Is this one of the worst quality World Cups ever? | Probably not

[KeanoMagicHat]

There are many obvious reasons why the WC is extremely underwhelming, most of them have already been mentioned in this thread, but here is a other less-talked-about aspect:

Club football level has gone up so high that watching national teams feels like watching Championship game. You cannot possibly expect that forced selection (by nationality) plus very limited training time together to produce teams anywhere at the level of EPL. Most people here watch EPL regularly, of course we find national teams football of much lower quality

I think the level of club football is overrated, there are plenty of shite games in club football every single weekend as well. You just don't watch 4--5 every day. Also the WC group stages are going to be like some Championship games, because there are 32 teams in the tournament. Not every team is brilliant, as with any competition with this many teams. You wouldn't sit down to watch RB Salzburg and Dinamo Zagreb in the Champions League and declare it as the peak of football. No, you'd pick Man City playing Real Madrid as your example. If France vs Brazil, for example is a terrible game, then maybe you have a point.

Even if you believe the quality is this much worse, then have you considered that it's good that teams can't just spend 300 million to buy up all the best players in every position and that's actually better for football? If Brazil have a shite right-back, and Trent Alexander-Arnold is unhappy, that's Trent to Brazil, deal done. If you think Qatar project PSG's line-up of well-paid mercenaries vs Abu Dhabi project Man City line-up of well-paid mercenaries is better for football than players fighting every minute to be legends in their countries then I suppose good for you.

For example, It's actually soothing to know that Qatar can't buy a team that can play football, no matter how much money they have. Meanwhile the poorest country in the World Cup, Senegal, can still outplay Qatar (who have 29 times higher average wealth per citizen) even though by far their best player is injured.

 

[Tyrion]

Honestly? I don't care. I remember people moaned about 2010 as well. This world cup has been great to watch and surprising. I'd rather that than have 3 or 4 super teams who stroll into the semis which is what happens in the champions league every year.

Absolutely. Big teams underperforming big time.

If the big teams were destroying everyone, there'd be complaints that there were only a few good teams and the standard isn't high.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

People tend to overrate club football. There are lot of dull /lackluster games on weekly basis in PL itself let alone other leagues. Atleast world cup brings some passion and some purpose.

Cl is fun but again not all game. You get to see some real crap there also. And some club football matches are just bland. I rather see a bland WC match where fans care than a bland club football.

Yeah I can't hack 4 games a day in the Premier League, United and one other game maximum. Meanwhile, I'd watch 3-4 World Cup games in a day no problem. Passion and purpose is well summed up. Premier League meanders along with 380 matches, by the second half of the season, half the matches are dead because it's 9th against 12th with nothing to play for. By that stage only the relegation, title and CL places really matter. And many seasons the title is over by April. People have a rose-tinted view of the quality and entertainment of a lot of PL games, because they probably only watch select games with the big 6.

 

[fallengt]

Lack of quality managers.
Some teams are clearly underperforming.

 

[tentan]

Proabably. Some of the football seem championship level.

2010 was dreadful though.

 

[Stack]

There are many obvious reasons why the WC is extremely underwhelming, most of them have already been mentioned in this thread, but here is a other less-talked-about aspect:

Club football level has gone up so high that watching national teams feels like watching Championship game. You cannot possibly expect that forced selection (by nationality) plus very limited training time together to produce teams anywhere at the level of EPL. Most people here watch EPL regularly, of course we find national teams football of much lower quality

Yeah but then there are people that expect newly signed players at clubs to perform like superstars from their first game......

 

[AshRK]

Yeah I can't hack 4 games a day in the Premier League, United and one other game maximum. Meanwhile, I'd watch 3-4 World Cup games in a day no problem. Passion and purpose is well summed up. Premier League meanders along with 380 matches, by the second half of the season, half the matches are dead because it's 9th against 12th with nothing to play for. By that stage only the relegation, title and CL places really matter. And many seasons the title is over by April. People have a rose-tinted view of the quality and entertainment of a lot of PL games, because they probably only watch select games with the big 6.

Exactly. And even the top 6 games aren't always great quality wise. There have been some miserable 0-0 or borefest of 90 minutes in PL as well.

Like today's Germany spain game was a wonderful tactical game. Brazil displayed some wonderful stuff against a decent Serbia side. England were great against Iran who in turn played a tense game against wales. Portugal Ghana was fun. Croatia Canada was fun as well. I am really enjoying Morocco's game.

I won't say this has been a brilliant world cup and all games are amazing. In fact I would say some big nations have underwhelming but I don't buy the fact that club football is always amazing.

 

[NewGlory]

The quality is lower but the passion is higher which makes up for it. Seeing Morocco score, Iran win, Japan celebrate against Germany, it's beautiful stuff.

I think you are making an excellent but outdated point. What you are saying used to be true. Club football has always been of higher quality than national teams games, for the reasons already stated, but passion was making up for it big time. Not anymore. That is actually the point that the gap has become so wide, passion is unable to make up for the difference.

It is very obvious, to be honest.

For anybody who is old enough to remember 70s and 80s, or some of 90s, a World Cup game with Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Netherlands and teams like that esp. against traditional rivals... those games were magical and on par with the best finals of any club football game, including Champions League ones. Not anymore. Last Euros were boring AF. And yet the players individually, on average are better.

 

[AshRK]

I think you are making an excellent but outdated point. What you are saying used to be true. Club football has always been of higher quality than national teams games, for the reasons already stated, but passion was making up for it big time. Not anymore. That is actually the point that the gap has become so wide, passion is unable to make up for the difference.

It is very obvious, to be honest.

For anybody who is old enough to remember 70s and 80s, or some of 90s, a World Cup game with Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Netherlands and teams like that esp. against traditional rivals... those games were magical and on par with the best finals of any club football game, including Champions League ones. Not anymore. Last Euros were boring AF. And yet the players individually, on average are better.

Let us rewind last 5 CL finals. The last three CL finals was a borefest which were won in a narrow 1-0. I would say quality wise PSG Bayern was the best but unfortunately that was played with no fans. Chelsea City was crap and the last one was only fun because Liverpool lost otherwise it was a game no one will talk about in 3 years time. None of them had any real tension or had a feeling that anything big may happen. That chelsea city final was one of the worst I have seen.

The one in 2019 was another borefest between spurs and Liverpool. Hardly felt like a CL final but more of a PL game.

The 2018 one fun and comical thanks to Karius but quality wise it wasn't amazing.

I will not even talk about FA cup or league cup finals. The last season's one were forgettable which were decided in pens.

Like I said people have a weird analogy that club football is always amazing. It is not true. France Croatia final was much more fun than anything that I have seen in the last 2 CL finals.

But again each one have their own preference.

 

[Lost bear]

It's been fine, some good games, some bad games and a few great games.

Like most tournaments

Not sure why there's always a need to label things as the best ever or the worst ever... Things can be in between

Well, I’ve no idea whether it’s the ‘worst ever’ or even how criteria for that dubious distinction could be arrived at. However, as one who watches footie for entertainment and fun, perhaps with a bit of art thrown in, I must agree with those who have found it pretty dire.
Every team works very hard and there’s a whole lotta pressing going on, but in terms of creativity, flair and those kind of tough to define characteristics, it has been a bit of a slog to watch. Just my own inexpert response.

 

[Stack]

To the people who say they dont like the World Cup because the standard isnt good enough, do you ever watch grass roots football?

 

[mariachi-19]

To the people who say they dont like the World Cup because the standard isnt good enough, do you ever watch grass roots football?

Tbf atleast at grass roots you expect shit.

 

[shamans]

One of the worst quality is really a stretch but there have been some very dull games. That said, I think we've had quality games as well. Spain Germany was pretty high quality football.

Since 2010 I've been hearing these complaints BTW. I don't know what it is but part of me thinks its just nostalgia of the TV dominant era without internet that people loved as part of 2006 and before

 

[Stack]

One of the worst quality is really a stretch but there have been some very dull games. That said, I think we've had quality games as well. Spain Germany was pretty high quality football.

Since 2010 I've been hearing these complaints BTW. I don't know what it is but part of me thinks its just nostalgia of the TV dominant era without internet that people loved as part of 2006 and before

Its nostalgia.

 

[tenpoless]

None of the team get you that excitement anymore. England looks exciting but limited by an ultra cautious manager.
The rest of them are meh. Most of the superstars are also aging.

 

[kouroux]

I think the level of club football is overrated, there are plenty of shite games in club football every single weekend as well. You just don't watch 4--5 every day. Also the WC group stages are going to be like some Championship games, because there are 32 teams in the tournament. Not every team is brilliant, as with any competition with this many teams. You wouldn't sit down to watch RB Salzburg and Dinamo Zagreb in the Champions League and declare it as the peak of football. No, you'd pick Man City playing Real Madrid as your example. If France vs Brazil, for example is a terrible game, then maybe you have a point.

Even if you believe the quality is this much worse, then have you considered that it's good that teams can't just spend 300 million to buy up all the best players in every position and that's actually better for football? If Brazil have a shite right-back, and Trent Alexander-Arnold is unhappy, that's Trent to Brazil, deal done. If you think Qatar project PSG's line-up of well-paid mercenaries vs Abu Dhabi project Man City line-up of well-paid mercenaries is better for football than players fighting every minute to be legends in their countries then I suppose good for you.

For example, It's actually soothing to know that Qatar can't buy a team that can play football, no matter how much money they have. Meanwhile the poorest country in the World Cup, Senegal, can still outplay Qatar (who have 29 times higher average wealth per citizen) even though by far their best player is injured.

Excellent post.

 

[Tragically Hip]

I might be wrong, but I feel that there are too many teams playing 3-5-2 who have no idea what to do with the ball when it gets to the wingback. The ball just constantly gets recycled around the back.

 

[Idxomer]

Currently at 2.32 goals per game it is in 19th place out of 22 world cups for goal scoring. That's pretty bad/boring

Two of the WCs behind it are South Africa which I thought was a terrible world cup as well and Germany which I was too young to properly remember.

Brazil and Russia are well ahead of it

Not that it matters much but it's 2.39 goals per game and it wasn't much different at the same stage in the last World Cup.

I think it's interesting we're likely going to have 3 of the 4 lowest World Cups scoring-wise just from the last 5 ones. Maybe teams have just become more competitive and games between mediocre teams are more tactical these days which results in fewer goals overall.

The point about the lack of true strikers in the game is also an important one. That list of strikers from 1998 is shocking because we have at best 3 strikers we could say they're world-class in this version.

 

[2mufc0]

Not that it matters much but it's 2.39 goals per game and it wasn't much different at the same stage in the last World Cup.

I think it's interesting we're likely going to have 3 of the 4 lowest World Cups scoring-wise just from the last 5 ones. Maybe teams have just become more competitive and games between mediocre teams are more tactical these days which results in fewer goals overall.

The point about the lack of true strikers in the game is also an important one. That list of strikers from 1998 is shocking because we have at best 3 strikers we could say they're world-class in this version.

It's easier to find 11 dsicplined athletic players to enable a high press low block team than a team with high flair players. Although competitiveness is going up the quality is going down.

And I agree with the poster above I couldn't watch every PL game some of it's really dire especially when you have two physical teams up against each other which happens so often.

I would say this world cup is on par with those in the post Mourinho era.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I think most NT missed that 3 week boot camps which usualy take place bofore WC. They had a week od preparation

 

[largelyworried]

This is definitely a low quality one so far. None of the big teams look particularly impressive, but I don't see many dark horses among the smaller teams either.

To be fair, the middle game in the group stage is usually pretty dull, which exacerbates the lack of quality. Once you reach the last game and teams are fighting to stay in the competition, the interest level rises, even if the quality doesn't.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

One of the most exciting WC in recent times because of the surprisingly good results for the Arab teams imo.

 

[Scandi Red]

This thread is giving me some serious deja vu. Since the late 90's I can't remember a single world cup without lots of complaining about the quality of the football. The last world cup in Russia was kind of an exception, although I think I heard a fair bit of complaints then as well.

The world cup is not about the quality of the football for me. It's about seeing lots of different countries and match-ups you don't usually get to see in a truly competitive setting. It also helps that all the players really care about the tournament, whether they are playing for a strong nation or are underdogs. There is a passion you just wont see in club football, bar some rare exceptions. I also like that the powerhouse nations aren't guaranteed anything. Every tournament will be missing at least one and every tournament will have one failing to get out of a group they consider a walk-over. To me this is great entertainment.

 

[antohan]

Since 2010 I've been hearing these complaints BTW. I don't know what it is but part of me thinks its just nostalgia of the TV dominant era without internet that people loved as part of 2006 and before

Can you elaborate on this? I didn't get the World Cup in B&W but remember when ~70% of the players on display you had hardly seen outside World Cups.

From 1990 you start seeing a lot more household names due to cable, CL, etc.

A few days ago discussing "best world cups" it struck me videogames like CM/FM and Fifa added familiarity with players/teams and expectations from 1998.

What's this with 2006? The internet was there before. Social media you mean? I'm actually curious about how much "opinions" are actually shaped by online betting and its outcomes which is also more prevalent this last 15 years or so.

 

[Samid]

Thread aged like rotten milk.

 

[Idxomer]

The last 3 and a half games have been brilliant.

 

[Yorkeontop]

You'll pray for WCs like this when we add an extra 16 countries in four year's time. Maybe 6 of those will add something but the other 10 will just drag everything down.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Thread aged like rotten milk.

People love to complain. Add to that the hate on the hosts.

 

[CallyRed]

Too many goals = poor defending
Not enough goals = poor attacking

 

[2mufc0]

A single city world cup was a bad fecking idea. Zero travel in between, zero mingling of fans traveling throughout the country....

.

Eh, there's far more mingling of different countries in this WC than any before. Watching some of the vlogs it's really unique in that sense.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Too many goals = poor defending
Not enough goals = poor attacking

Equal teams = too many draws
All the top teams go through = too predictable
Top teams shocked and go out = poor quality

 

[Solius]

Thread aged like rotten milk.

You’re welcome all.

 

[El Jefe]

This World Cup has been fine if you aren't looking for faults.

Can't see much of a difference so far especially as we haven't even finished the second round of group games. Bizzare criticism.

 

[Solius]

This World Cup has been fine if you aren't looking for faults.

Can't see much of a difference so far especially as we haven't even finished the second round of group games. Bizzare criticism.

Tbf I said in the OP I wasn’t. I really wanted the football to be good. It has improved the last few games. Just saying it how I saw it.

Hardly bizarre. A large chunk of the games had been objectively rubbish.

 

[Nick7]

I think a lot of teams are of a similar level. Looking into it nearly half of the goals scored in the tournament come from like 6 games. Everything else has been fairly close lowish scoring affairs.

 

[rimaldo]

i think the main issue is a lot of the flair players don’t want to try anything too flamboyant in case they are thrown in jail for being a whoopsie.

 

[Red the Bear]

Just on strikers, had a quick look at the 1998 tournament and it had;

Suker
Batistuta
Vieri
Bergkamp
Kulivert
Shearer
Owen
Ronaldo
Salas
Zamorano
Baggio
Henry
Bebeto
Klinsman
Bierhoff
Hernandez
Moreintes
Raul
Mijatovic
Benni McCarthy
Claudio Lopez
Trezeguet
Edmundo
Solskjaer
Flo
Etoo
Del Piero
Inzaghi
Chiesa
Van Hoojdonk
Jimmy Floyd
Asprilla
Crespo
Balbo

I mean, god damn.

Makes the mouth salivate!

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Tbf I said in the OP I wasn’t. I really wanted the football to be good. It has improved the last few games. Just saying it how I saw it.

Hardly bizarre. A large chunk of the games had been objectively rubbish.

Yeah, same here.

I'm only interested in watching and discussing the football on the pitch so I'm in no way looking to find faults with the tournament based on where it's being held or anything.

And I said in my post that I was still enjoying it, even though I thought the quality (technical quality) was a bit lower than I'd hope at the pinnacle tournament.

Perfect example of that being the Australia - Tunisia game. I really enjoyed it from a tension and excitement point of view. But, technical ability wise, that could easily have been one of the FA Cup 2nd round games. No player stood out as being particularly good, it was just enjoyable from an entertainment point of view.

But the last couple of days have had some very good games that combined both entertainment and technical ability. So I've doubly enjoyed those and long may they continue.

 

[RacingClub]

Hardly bizarre. A large chunk of the games had been objectively rubbish.

Agreed.

Also there seems to be a bit of a push back on criticism of this World Cup as if your motivations couldn't be pure and have to be based on your biases.

Meanwhile the same people are pumping every normal crowd reaction/ chant/ moment and half decent game as if it's the best thing ever.

It's actually a great position to be in;

Bad game / atmosphere = "All world cups are like this so criticism is unnecessary and frivolous and based on your feelings of the host nation."

Good game / atmosphere = "Hahaha where are the idiots who criticized the tournament now????"

It's win win.

(And I don't even think it's the worst ever, Im.pretty indifferent to it outside of a handful of games)

 

[El Jefe]

Tbf I said in the OP I wasn’t. I really wanted the football to be good. It has improved the last few games. Just saying it how I saw it.

Hardly bizarre. A large chunk of the games had been objectively rubbish.

I think that's fairly normal for World Cups though. You get teams like Saudi coming out strong to make a statement but for the most part teams look to be more cautious as no one wants to lose the first game.

Coming into the last round of games, team will need the points or goal difference to progress and things get more exciting.

I just think calling this one of the worst ever was too soon and remembering previous world cups with a bit romanticism.