Mourinho said he had no "undroppables", I wonder whether he will prove that with his handling of Ibra in coming weeks.
Is Zlatan holding us back at the moment?
- Thread starter djdhrubs
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
He just isn't offering anything at the moment. We haven't been creating much but he also makes no runs whatsoever and his hold up play has been terrible.
Get Rashford up top for a couple of games and see how that works, at least he's quick and makes runs. Ibra could use the rest anyway, he's played pretty much nonstop this season.
Get Rashford up top for a couple of games and see how that works, at least he's quick and makes runs. Ibra could use the rest anyway, he's played pretty much nonstop this season.
Really like him in the build up but he's costing us too much in front of goal. Never thought I'd say this but he has missed sitter after sitter now in consecutive weeks.
It's no wonder we are dropping points when Rashford, Zlatan, Martial, Rooney cant muster a goal between them. Any side would struggle with such a poor return from their forwards.
It's no wonder we are dropping points when Rashford, Zlatan, Martial, Rooney cant muster a goal between them. Any side would struggle with such a poor return from their forwards.
Fergie had 4 center forwards... there was a reason for that...
Needs to be dropped. This isnt PSG. This isnt milan.
He looks fecking shellshocked at the pace and ferocity of the game. Have you ever seen an Ibra this lacking in confidence?
Let Rashford and/or Martial have a go upfront. We need pace and to play quick on the counter.
When we signed Mourinho I was expecting that type of a team. We are completely different and alot comes down to having to accomodate Ibra.
He looks fecking shellshocked at the pace and ferocity of the game. Have you ever seen an Ibra this lacking in confidence?
Let Rashford and/or Martial have a go upfront. We need pace and to play quick on the counter.
When we signed Mourinho I was expecting that type of a team. We are completely different and alot comes down to having to accomodate Ibra.
Its not even his pace that's the issue its his finishing, had a very good game today apart from the 1 thing he really needs to be doing well, finishing.
How he missed that volley at the end I'll never know, that's his trademark bread and butter back post goal and the fudged it.
How he missed that volley at the end I'll never know, that's his trademark bread and butter back post goal and the fudged it.
Yes he is currently.
If he wants to have a second season here then he and Mourinho need to manage his games better.
If he wants to have a second season here then he and Mourinho need to manage his games better.
Rashford should be playing in front of goal alongside Zlatan. Would benefit both of them.
Never there when you need him the most.
If we still gonna play with 1 lone striker, I will drop him against Swansea and play Rashford up front. Tough decision but we signed him so we can be more clinical and don't have to rely on a teenager to score goal but the fact is right now he missed too many good chances and I think Rashford would have scored if he's given the same chances that Ibra got. I like the way how Ibra played so far but his finishing definitely holding us back at the moment. I would like to see him play deeper instead since he's good to build up our attack. Didn't he play as 2nd striker at Juventus with Trezequet as their main striker. I would like to see Rashford and Ibra up front together.
He was brought over to be clinical, something that eluded us amongst the other things last season but unfortunately he's anything but. Don't like the fact he's untouchable in Mourinho's mind and the fact that we're doing everything to accommodate a 35 year old striker that's gonna be around for a single year whilst Rashford is forced to play a winger which is contra productive in his age, it will only dull his striker and movement instincts.
Everyone's who's saying, "it's not bad we're creating many chances" i partially agree, it's not. But when you have a striker that's 35 years old, big man that never played in a league this pacey and playing with not so good wingers that can compliment his game and on top of that he's not scoring from 50 chances we make against the likes of Stoke and Burnley, than how can we expect him to score against much better opposition from those few chances we will manage to make against them.
Lot's of people speculated that maybe Rooney had some sort of "must play" clause in his contract, but i think it's more probable to be the case with Zlatan.
Everyone's who's saying, "it's not bad we're creating many chances" i partially agree, it's not. But when you have a striker that's 35 years old, big man that never played in a league this pacey and playing with not so good wingers that can compliment his game and on top of that he's not scoring from 50 chances we make against the likes of Stoke and Burnley, than how can we expect him to score against much better opposition from those few chances we will manage to make against them.
Lot's of people speculated that maybe Rooney had some sort of "must play" clause in his contract, but i think it's more probable to be the case with Zlatan.
I like the way he plays. I like the way he works with players around him. But that's also the problem right now. The way he plays and moves invites the ball, his demeanour and his history invite the ball.
So when Radford acts as the wall for another slick one-two I understand completely why he does it. But right now I'd sooner Radford or Mata took the shot. It's one of those things that strikers go through I think, not a sign that he can't hack it in the PL, but he's so much at the heart of our play and he's at the receiving end of so much unselfish play, that it's a problem.
I don't think Rashford as a lone striker is the answer. Rashford as part of a striker pairing sounds like a much better bet.
So when Radford acts as the wall for another slick one-two I understand completely why he does it. But right now I'd sooner Radford or Mata took the shot. It's one of those things that strikers go through I think, not a sign that he can't hack it in the PL, but he's so much at the heart of our play and he's at the receiving end of so much unselfish play, that it's a problem.
I don't think Rashford as a lone striker is the answer. Rashford as part of a striker pairing sounds like a much better bet.
His finishing was supposed to put us in the title race, unfortunately it's been so bad we're barely in the top 4 mix.
I might get stick for this but I thought he was fantastic yesterday at everything apart from sticking it in the net. He would every head, bought numerous goal kicks down on his chest, linked up with Pogba well and made some great runs
Having said all that, I am still furious at those terrible misses!
Having said all that, I am still furious at those terrible misses!
He is doing everything right for me...all but putting the ball in the net! His link up play and movement is very good and has been since he joined but his finishing has been atrocious. He is definitely feeling the pressure of the United spotlight and he needs some goals. Once he starts scoring this team will be very, very good.
That's a myth. It is good only vs minnows, he was non-existent vs Chelsea and Liverpool. His overall game hasn't been impressive at all, excluding Burnley who are terrible (away from home) anyway.
As I said in his thread the other day, the standards for this man has fallen so fecking much since we signed him. When we signed him we had posters claiming were gonna be in a title race. We're gonna be pushing on and he will score 20/25 goals. Now it's enough for him to miss sitters and not feck up massively in link up play. His link up play has at best been average, in some games it is completely non existent. Against City in the first half he actually set up two chances for them and did nothing for us
.The revisionism is mind boggling. People thought Mourinho and Zlatan were gonna push us on. If anyone was here last year how many times did we hear that "if we'd sacked LVG earlier we'd have finished top four". In the summer Mourinho identified four players he needed. He got them. Now he needs a few more summers.
I am far from knee jerk. But the fact is
A) we are scoring no more than last year
B) we have a worst defence than last year
C) we have spent more than ever before (considering the paltry amount we got in from sales)
D) our main striker has the worst conversion rate for attackers in the league
E) we are over a quarter of the league season gone and are currently eighth... With one win in seven.
We are creating a lot more than last year. Its a shame that we cant finish it.
If we drop Ibra, we do we there? Rooney aint much better.
Martial or Rashford are possible but then we do we put in their place on the wings?
If we drop Ibra, we do we there? Rooney aint much better.
Martial or Rashford are possible but then we do we put in their place on the wings?
Get Martial up top.
We played 442?
Just saw sports journalist Allyson Rudd on Sky's Sunday Supplement who summed up the problem well. She said Ibrahimovic is becoming old school like Mourniho, having little pace or movement, and added that how many top clubs would have actually signed him on a free this summer. Can you imagine City/Chelsea/Arsenal saying they were going to sign this plodding has-been & playing in place of Aguerro/Sanchez/Hazard/Costa etc, which would be absurd. That unfortunately is what I feared when we signed him this summer, with such hysteria from fans on how he was going to win us the league & other crap, & despite starting better than I thought, has been what I expected, slowly the team right down & dragging it down. Many fans have since realised he isn't the second coming, though some still do, but the Manager seemingly does, so it is rocky times ahead.
Hopefully the Swedish plodder, Rooney, Depay etc will be gone by the Jan break, but we may be miles behind by then if this keeps up, & the manager, who is already losing it, might be joining him.
Hopefully the Swedish plodder, Rooney, Depay etc will be gone by the Jan break, but we may be miles behind by then if this keeps up, & the manager, who is already losing it, might be joining him.
Some people have really short memories and knee jerk reactions dont they.
This thread will inevitably get bumped during the season when he's in the goals again. Hughes, Cantona, Sheringham, Cole, Ole, Yorke, Ruud, Rooney, Saha, Berbatov, RVP, Hernandez, they all went on runs of games without a goal, literally all of them. Strikers rely on confidence, it happens to them all. They all had other strikers to chip in though while we now have a passed it Rooney to pick up the slack.
This thread will inevitably get bumped during the season when he's in the goals again. Hughes, Cantona, Sheringham, Cole, Ole, Yorke, Ruud, Rooney, Saha, Berbatov, RVP, Hernandez, they all went on runs of games without a goal, literally all of them. Strikers rely on confidence, it happens to them all. They all had other strikers to chip in though while we now have a passed it Rooney to pick up the slack.
It's not a myth. He was left isolated vs Liverpool so hardly his fault
He's costing us games and he'll end up costing Jose the dressing room if he keeps picking him despite the fact he can't do his job.
You can't drop every player who doesn't perform but then make an exception for one person...especially not when that person keeps causing the team to not win games. It will lose you the dressing room very quickly.
Zlatan's ego isn't more important than the team. Sorry. Just bench him and if he doesn't like it tough. He is in the team to make goals happen and he's gone lliterally months without doing that a single time. He's the only player that is contributing absolutely nothing.
You can't drop every player who doesn't perform but then make an exception for one person...especially not when that person keeps causing the team to not win games. It will lose you the dressing room very quickly.
Zlatan's ego isn't more important than the team. Sorry. Just bench him and if he doesn't like it tough. He is in the team to make goals happen and he's gone lliterally months without doing that a single time. He's the only player that is contributing absolutely nothing.
You guys are nuts, he's going to have a good season, you'll see.
The last part's just not true though. His overall play and movement vs Burnley was a big reason why we created more chances than I can remember since Fergie's heyday. He was also excellent against Stoke and Leicester - in every way but scoring.
Of course he should've had two or three goals yesterday. Everyone knows that, he knows that, Mourinho knows that. But he's getting on the end of chances every week. Even in games where he's left isolated and the rest of the team sits deep, like against Liverpool, he's getting chances. I don't think it's as easy as swapping him for Martial and the goals will come automatically - Zlatan's a big reason for us creating so many chances.
If he gets a goal now, his confidence returns and he'll get back to scoring. Compared to, for instance, Rooney last year, there's absolute light years between them in terms of contribution when playing as the number nine.
It's funny, people think by replacing him we will suddenly score loads. However, most chances we create come from Zlatan's link-up play. Without him we will lose a lot of our fluidity, which doesn't just come out of nowhere.
He's missing sitters....And they're real sitters....And it's costing us points, absolutely certain.
More importantly, I'm with those who didn't want him here in the first place - top class strikers don't bounce around from club-to-club, country-to-country, like he has done for almost his whole career. Can't help thinking he came to us rather than a final payday in MLS because Raiola insisted on it as part of the Pogba deal.
However, the biggest problem of him being here is that we're seeing Rashford's progress stall and Martial sidelined and regressing - the only two positives from Van Gaal's time at OT.
Big call for JM next week....
More importantly, I'm with those who didn't want him here in the first place - top class strikers don't bounce around from club-to-club, country-to-country, like he has done for almost his whole career. Can't help thinking he came to us rather than a final payday in MLS because Raiola insisted on it as part of the Pogba deal.
However, the biggest problem of him being here is that we're seeing Rashford's progress stall and Martial sidelined and regressing - the only two positives from Van Gaal's time at OT.
Big call for JM next week....
You are comparing him to players who were in their prime playing for us. He is past it, & from what I see not compatible to how the Premiership is being played now, with tons of pace. Sorry I don't rate him at all, & worse it is dragging the team down. Already 8 points behind our rivals, with just over a quarter of the season gone, with a poor goal difference. How far will the gap be by Christmas.
His all round game is good, but his finishing is shocking. He still contributes, I guess, but he is costing us points with his misses.
Yeah, players like Eto'o were absolute shite. Also, Zlatan has always wanted to go to the PL and said on numerous occasions that there's "only one league trophy left".
But keep coming up with absolute bs.
There is no chance he will ever be benched as he's a "big" personality and friends with the manager. If he was to be benched he's the type of guy who would cause a lot of disturbance in the team. Our season is basically depending on him to get going.
It doesn't matter how good his movement or link up play is if he's going to feck up literally every chance he gets to put the ball in the net...and his build up and hold up play in general has been pretty bloody poor anyway. In fact it's been just shockingly bad in more than one game. How many assists does he have during his run of not scoring? Is it 0?
We're creating chances because we're playing well as a team (well, were yesterday). A lot of chances were created that Zlatan had no involvement in at all...or in which his only involvement was to fluff the finish up. I doubt we'll have struggled to create without him there.
The blunt fact is he's in the team to make the team score goals. That's it, and he isn't doing his job. He isn't doing anything to justify taking a spot from other players who might. Jose's made a point of dropping people for not doing their job or playing poorly so he can't now make an exception for someone.
This has already been going on too long. If Zlatan could finish easy chances, we'd have beaten Burnley, Liverpool, probably wouldn't have lost to Watford. Would have gone in 2-2 at half time to City. He's costing the team and giving nothing back in return. Those results could be a big problem come April/May.
If I was Rashford I'd also wonder why I was stuck out on the wing to fit in someone who can't score. If I was Rooney I'd think it was a bit of a joke that I get dropped for not playing well yet someone else doesn't. If I was Martial I'd wonder what the fecking difference is that means I can't get a place in the team to find form yet someone else can. It's going to create big problems.
This isn't some young player or player in their prime who might come good a year down the line and be worth the patience. He's 35. If he's not doing his job take him out of the fecking team aand make him earn a place the same as everyone else
You're spot on. He's actually playing very well in the build up and winning the ball. He is doing it all perfectly bar finish which I find bizarre.
Take Rooney for instance. You can see he is shot at the moment. His passes run astray and he's one step behind the game with his shooting in turn garbage. Zlatan on the other hand is pretty well integrated in our forward play but his finishing has just left him for some reason.
He needs to either play as a two up front until he gets his mojo back or giving a rest. Either way we need Rashford or Martial through the middle for a bit.
His assist won us the match vs City... Short memories.
Overall though: I think he contributes to us having so many chances. And I think he's in a woeful run of form in front of goal, which is bound to end at some point. Now we know he's a very good finisher, we've seen more than enough evidence of that the last couple of seasons. Which leads me to believe the right decision is playing him through this rut in front of goal.
I don't think Rashford's particularly unhappy. Martial's mostly played when fit, in the same position he played most of last season in. And Rooney? His performances for three years makes him being unhappy totally irrelevant - there's also the fact Rooney looked poorer vs Northampton as a striker than Zlatan's done in any match this season. Not sure you're serious if you claim Rooney should be in the side ahead of him.
I tend to agree but not sure you can keep playing him in that position for 90 mins each week and have scenarios like yesterday and beyond where he keeps costing us points.
Someone else needs to move centrally as we are going to do nothing if none of our forward conribute.
Absolutely. But I just think the upside if he get's firing is huge, because I'm quite confident Martial/Rashford wouldn't get themselves on the end of as many chances. His movement and strength in the box is great, such a clever player.
I think it's a pretty difficult decision for Mourinho really.
If he moves to two up top then it changes all our tactics which on the whole are working and improving.
If he drops Zlatan then we lose a brilliant technical player who is very influential in our front play despite the current form infront of goal.
Personally I'd like to see Rashford in the role against Swansea and Zlatan off the bench. It doesn't need to a permanent thing but just to see how he does. I think Rashford is actually very smart and clever in the central area. He also offers a 1 v 1 threat and the ability to run in behind.
Would just like to see that with Mata and Pogba feeding the ball for him.
I really rate Martial but don't think he's as smart as Rashford with his interplay yet.
I think he played really well in the second half against city and against Burnley, just unlucky Heaton evolved into super saiyan mode. he'll be back amongst the goals soon
I am with you Twig. Zlatan warrants his place in the team because he doesn't lose the ball constantly "all the time" and he misses chances which is deemed as a good thing! how about a striker who sticks chances away so we can, you know, win football matches instead of 1 win in 7.As I said in his thread the other day, the standards for this man has fallen so fecking much since we signed him. When we signed him we had posters claiming were gonna be in a title race. We're gonna be pushing on and he will score 20/25 goals. Now it's enough for him to miss sitters and not feck up massively in link up play. His link up play has at best been average, in some games it is completely non existent. Against City in the first half he actually set up two chances for them and did nothing for us
The revisionism is mind boggling. People thought Mourinho and Zlatan were gonna push us on. If anyone was here last year how many times did we hear that "if we'd sacked LVG earlier we'd have finished top four". In the summer Mourinho identified four players he needed. He got them. Now he needs a few more summers.
I am far from knee jerk. But the fact is
A) we are scoring no more than last year
B) we have a worst defence than last year
C) we have spent more than ever before (considering the paltry amount we got in from sales)
D) our main striker has the worst conversion rate for attackers in the league
E) we are over a quarter of the league season gone and are currently eighth... With one win in seven.