Is Zlatan holding us back at the moment?

[CS@SG]

Obviously he's not the player he used to be anymore, he has lost his pace and his quick feet. His pace has been gone for years now, that's not really a surprise, it's his general stiffness that is relatively new and means the end of his career is near. But that doesn't mean he can't be a very useful striker this season. He will miss chances but he will also make chances out of situations that can't be considered a chance with a different striker. We can pretend he's been wasteful in an otherwise well performing squad that created a lot of chances, but I don't think that's the case.

He should be used right, as a static striker. That means that he needs dynamic players around him who make runs with conviction, not reacting to a flick but acting before it comes, or not. To make a static striker work you need more of a plan than with a different type of striker.

Is Charlie Austin a static striker?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I saw someone posted, in one of the thread, that Zlatan is the kind of player who needs games to get into rythm to score, so Jose must play him MORE......

I can't help laughing.

thats just hilarious, the nonsense people come up with to try and justify obviously stupid decisions is just crazy!

 

[sugar_kane]

He simply shouldn't be playing so many minutes. He's in fantastic shape for a 35 year old but he is still a 35 year old and his game time needs managing more effectively.

He's looked fecked recently after a great start.

 

[Varun]

He shouldn't start in setups where we set out to play on the counter and nick a goal. A rashford/martial is better suited to this role. Ibra should start the other games and even then, it should be based on form.

 

[PitchFork]

He was doing fine until Jose gave him special treatment above everyone else. In fact nothings gone right since then. Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

He simply shouldn't be playing so many minutes. He's in fantastic shape for a 35 year old but he is still a 35 year old and his game time needs managing more effectively.

He's looked fecked recently after a great start.

thats basically it isn't it he is 35, yes a very fit 35 year old, but he is still 35.

you arnt going to get 50 great 90 min performances from a 35 year old, he should be used like we used players like giggs and scholes at his age, picked for the right games that suits his talents and doesn't completely Traveller him out.

The guy can still be a great benefit to our club, both on the pitch and of it, but he should not be used like he is as an undroppable un-substitutable player who will play in the premier league no matter what.

 

[3KDré]

When people said he couldn't handle the intensity of the PL they were right. Even in the first few games he looked absolutely knackered at the end of the game. Now he looks incredibly laboured, his flicks ons are less and less prevalent and his shooting is just regressing.

At the beginning of the season Mou said that the ages of Rashford and Ibra combined and/2 is the perfect age for a striker. For some reason though, Mourinho has decided it would be a good idea to put a great young striker on the wing and play Ibra in almost every match.

 

[devil in me]

He is certainly out of form. But generally i think we would benefit from a more fluid , more pacey front three. Martial -Rashford - Miki is what i would like to see given a chance.

 

[noodlehair]

You can't get away with having a static striker who doesn't hold the ball up and bring his team mates into the game even if he IS scoring goals, and he doesn't even do that.

He goes entire games doing absolutely nothing useful at all. Even Rooney, in the worst form of his life, will still make runs or contribute to the team being able to function. At times this season not only has Zlatan not done that, but in a few games it's reached a point where the team can't function BECAUSE of him.

He's a million fecking miles from being good enough to be starting every PL game.

 

[Raees]

Would Barcelona or Real be starting a 35 year old striker up front?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Would Barcelona or Real be starting a 35 year old striker up front?

for god sake even stoke don't play thier 35 year old striker every week...... what where trying to do is just nuts!

 

[grahamo]

I don't think he's holding us back. I do think he needs a partner up front. he's isolated on his own

 

[Fergus' son]

He's shit, would be delighted if he never played for us again.

 

[The United]

I understand why he starts most games atm for this season. But not subbing him at all while we need a bit different style/change/play is a bit mental imo. We switch players around him while he is playing like shit in some games a whole game.

It is like we are building a team around a striker. Only problem is the guy is 35 and we should not rely on him that much.

When some people say that signing him probably won't do much good for us, we get told how amazing he would be bla bla.

But common sense will tell you that a striker this old who has never played in EPL won't improve so much for a top team inspiring to win titles. Not as a first choice anyway.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Hes a stinking pile of narcissistic dung.Too slow, too lazy, too bloody full of himself.If you are going to strut around like a king you better play like one.
Hes no Cantona.

 

[Leftback99]

Hard to say until we have a functioning system/players behind him that have more ideas than 'give it to Valencia and cross it in'.

I said all last season it's irrelevant who we have up front because we create nothing from open play. It's barely any different.

He has wasted too many crucial chances from the little he has had though.

 

[Fergus' son]

Hes a stinking pile of narcissistic dung.Too slow, too lazy, too bloody full of himself.If you are going to strut around like a king you better play like one.
Hes no Cantona.

This.

 

[sokol11]

Hard to say until we have a functioning system/players behind him that have more ideas than 'give it to Valencia and cross it in'.

I said all last season it's irrelevant who we have up front because we create nothing from open play. It's barely any different.

He has wasted too many crucial chances from the little he has had though.

Basically this. Pogba and Zlatan can't do everything on their own. In a functional system they would be a difference makers. In an non functional they look ordinary. Zlatan wasted a few nice chances true. Also Pogba at Juve was just a piece of a well oiled machine who was able to express himself with more time and space around him. At United all focus is on him, he will get used to it. And when he will be supported by some more quality (not Fellaini and not Valencia) he will offer even more.

 

[djdhrubs]

Most of the team's performance was so awful that it's unfair to blame much on zlatan. But it's worrying he keeps missing chances isn't it? I've heard the argument that if he continues to play and be in the right place at the right time, the goals will inevitably come later. Having seen Torres at Chelsea, I'm not sure that's necessarily true.

 

[Zlaatan]

Would Barcelona or Real be starting a 35 year old striker up front?

Yes they would, Henrik Larsson was turning 35 the year he won the CL with Barcelona.
I think Henry was 33 when he played for them.

 

[Water Melon]

Zlatan has forgotten to put on his scoring boots recently. I'd rather play either of Martial or Rash as a no 9. Both are younger and have to play regularly to get that killer instinct

 

[Jaxdan]

Zlatan has forgotten to put on his scoring boots recently. I'd rather play either of Martial or Rash as a no 9. Both are younger and have to play regularly to get that killer instinct

Or his scoring 'man bun'. Perhaps he could borrow Bale's.

 

[Raees]

Yes they would, Henrik Larsson was turning 35 the year he won the CL with Barcelona.
I think Henry was 33 when he played for them.

He wasn't starting week in week out, that was Eto'o.

Henry was 29/30 when he joined Barca and he wasn't relied upon as the main man of that attack. Completely different build of player, a natural runner with the ball so even if he slowed down.. he'd still be pretty nimble. He was faded out by time he got to 32.. which is a normal age to still persist with an older player (unless they're Wayne Rooney).

Having a 35 year old striker playing week in week out, for a team aspiring to be the best in the world is ridiculous.

 

[NextSeason]

Yes.

 

[Dominos]

Is it 1 goal in 7?

Why did he even start yesterday? I'm not joining in the player bashing here, if a player is out of form he's out of form, I can accept that. It's the manager's job to recognise it and drop him.

What is it about his recent performances that suggested he was going to turn his form around yesterday at Stamford Bridge of all places, and that if a chance fell to him he was going to take it? Just take a risk and change the team up, it may not work out, but you gain nothing from selecting a line up that is predictably poor.

 

[Zlaatan]

He wasn't starting week in week out, that was Eto'o.

Henry was 29/30 when he joined Barca and he wasn't relied upon as the main man of that attack. Completely different build of player, a natural runner with the ball so even if he slowed down.. he'd still be pretty nimble. He was faded out by time he got to 32.. which is a normal age to still persist with an older player (unless they're Wayne Rooney).

Having a 35 year old striker playing week in week out, for a team aspiring to be the best in the world is ridiculous.

The question I replied to wasn't if a 35 year old was the main man, what kind of player they were or when they joined the clubs though.. but I always enjoy reading a good straw man argument so it's all good.
It's funny that people only thought it was wrong to have an old striker before Zlatan joined and then after he scored 6 goals in his 6 first competitive games for us.

 

[Raees]

The question I replied to wasn't if a 35 year old was the main man, what kind of player they were or when they joined the clubs though.. but I always enjoy reading a good straw man argument so it's all good.
It's funny that people only thought it was wrong to have an old striker before Zlatan joined and then after he scored 6 goals in his 6 first competitive games for us.

Before Zlatan joined, I was against his signing and wasn't too pleased about him being our only forward. When he started the way he did, I was pleasantly surprised.. like wow.. how can a 35 year old be playing like he is. I was genuinely impressed but I still said it would be nice to have a striker at his peak starting for us in case Zlatan's level dropped.

His level has dropped already and we are in October, so we are in the shit unless his level picks up.

I don't blame it on him one bit, he's 35.. you can't blame him for being lazy etc, he's trying but it was a tactical mistake by Jose not to ensure we had a young striker in the 24-28 range playing up top for us.

 

[Dominant]

What's that about a GOD he was saying earlier in the season when asked to compare to Cantona? Definitely don't look God-ish to me now..

 

[Bobcat]

I think everyone agrees that hes hit a bit of a rough patch, but imo it's not all down to him. Our attack looks really disjointed, and although he has missed some good chances the last games, it's not like we have created boatloads for him either. Way to often have i seen him (and Rooney for that matter) drop deep to try and get involved. Well, they aren't going to do any damage on the half way line are they?

Is two strikers now completely out of the question? If he got a partner in either Rashford or Martial, some much needed pace up front i'm sure he would be more effective.

 

[Manny]

Yes they would, Henrik Larsson was turning 35 the year he won the CL with Barcelona.
I think Henry was 33 when he played for them.

That was a different era Barcelona (2006) when they were having to watch their spending and actually, that Henrik Larsson stilled offered a hell of a lot.

We even brought him in on loan six months after he left Barca and he fitted right in.

 

[CS@SG]

I think everyone agrees that hes hit a bit of a rough patch, but imo it's not all down to him. Our attack looks really disjointed, and although he has missed some good chances the last games, it's not like we have created boatloads for him either. Way to often have i seen him (and Rooney for that matter) drop deep to try and get involved. Well, they aren't going to do any damage on the half way line are they?

Is two strikers now completely out of the question? If he got a partner in either Rashford or Martial, some much needed pace up front i'm sure he would be more effective.

Isn't Zlatan supposed to be the "leader on pitch"? The one to push the team forward, the one to get the players going if they are not? I do not see such effect from him, not a single bit.

 

[Bobcat]

Isn't Zlatan supposed to be the "leader on pitch"? The one to push the team forward, the one to get the players going if they are not? I do not see such effect from him, not a single bit.

Well, he has experience, but has never struck me as the "leader" type.

My point is that our recent woes are not only down to him missing his chances. We need to rethink our whole attacking approach as we are currently not looking very threatening. Personally i would opt for either Rashford or Martial leading the line with Zlatan right behind them or Zlatan benched. Playing long balls to a slow lone striker is pointless unless there is someone nearby who can run in behind the defense.

We saw time and time vs Chelsea that Pedro and Hazard was very willing to run in behind our defenders, who might be a reason why they shit themselves so massively. With us, it seems like our wingers are either to wide or to far back to exploit those chances, and currently only Mata seems to be able to explot that room when playing as a no 10 (First penalty vs Fenerbache is a recent example)

 

[Wumminator]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10630962/zlatan8217s-big-misses

Don't see how it can be argued to be fair

 

[CS@SG]

Well, he has experience, but has never struck me as the "leader" type.

My point is that our recent woes are not only down to him missing his chances. We need to rethink our whole attacking approach as we are currently not looking very threatening. Personally i would opt for either Rashford or Martial leading the line with Zlatan right behind them or Zlatan benched. Playing long balls to a slow lone striker is pointless unless there is someone nearby who can run in behind the defense.

We saw time and time vs Chelsea that Pedro and Hazard was very willing to run in behind our defenders, who might be a reason why they shit themselves so massively. With us, it seems like our wingers are either to wide or to far back to exploit those chances, and currently only Mata seems to be able to explot that room when playing as a no 10 (First penalty vs Fenerbache is a recent example)

I don't know man, because before his signing, I read so many claims that with his auro, his personality, his records, he would be the Jose's defacto leader on the field, in dressing room.

 

[OohAahMartial]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10630962/zlatan8217s-big-misses

Don't see how it can be argued to be fair

Those stats are disturbing, especially as they destroy the myth that its due to lack of chance when they clearly show its just lack of clinical finishing i.e. individual sloppiness rather than a team thing. How can he go from so many goals last season to missing so many chances this?

 

[Wumminator]

Those stats are disturbing, especially as they destroy the myth that its due to lack of chance when they clearly show its just lack of clinical finishing i.e. individual sloppiness rather than a team thing. How can he go from so many goals last season to missing so many chances this?

Easier league, more time on the ball and playing for a ridiculously dominant team.

 

[Striker10]

Yes and no. It's a tougher league and he has less time but he's settling in. We can't expect miracles. He's started missing chances and that's the big thing. You can be rarely involved sometimes but when chances come, you have to take them and they're not going in at the minute. Now, would rooney have gotten in the positions and scored? I think Rooney played well (at times) in his last game - but no chances. The most key thing is to get Ibra back firing. If he took his chances, we'd be in a much healthier position. That said, against stoke (i think it was), other players were just as guilty of missed chances. So the team need to be more clinical.

 

[Wumminator]

Yes and no. It's a tougher league and he has less time but he's settling in. We can't expect miracles. He's started missing chances and that's the big thing. You can be rarely involved sometimes but when chances come, you have to take them and they're not going in at the minute. Now, would rooney have gotten in the positions and scored? I think Rooney played well (at times) in his last game - but no chances. The most key thing is to get Ibra back firing. If he took his chances, we'd be in a much healthier position. That said, against stoke (i think it was), other players were just as guilty of missed chances. So the team need to be more clinical.

But he's 35. This is why I was against the signing. By the time he's settled in it'll be time to go again.

 

[Oneunited26]

I really think we need to try rashford and martial in a front 3, and drop the very static zlaten, see what we like with better movement from much younger legs

 

[Zlaatan]

That was a different era Barcelona (2006) when they were having to watch their spending and actually, that Henrik Larsson stilled offered a hell of a lot.

We even brought him in on loan six months after he left Barca and he fitted right in.

Ok, so what? That still has nothing to do with the original question.

And AFAIK we paid less for Zlatan than what Barca paid for Larsson.