Oh my bad, I am not familiar with his style. Sorry if I seemed a bit offensive Holyland
Islamophobia: the new antisemitism
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
I have Pakistani friends who said that the "West" was just as badly regarded in Kirachi and Islamabad as it is in Baghdad and Kabul.
Maybe Indonesia is more friendly towards that half of the world, but I'd wager that more than "20%" of the muslim world has an equivalent attitude to that pointed towards islam by the USA and Europe.
No, he's genrally just a twat.
You're thinking of Fearless.
Justifying what? A nutjob standing on a street corner with a banner?
What was the point of posting a story of some twat who injured a man because he was a Muslim? Does he represent America and its alleged Islamophobia?
I still think Muslims in the US could feel a lot safer compared with Jews or Yanks in Iran or Pakistan.
I dont know why people try and compare the USA with countries like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Both these countries clearly have huge issues with regards to personal freedom, and equal rights and are far far behind what a country like the USA has already achieved.. The comparison is disingenuous and lazy.
The USA aspires to be the most advanced, principled and civilised country in the world. And in many instances in history, it has proven this. The only topic that matters right now is can the USA extend all its values and principles to its Muslim citizens, like it does to its Christian, Jewish and Hindu citizens. If it can't, then the American experiment has a huge flaw.
Im proud to be British because despite some recent problems, British people are far more sophisticated and mature about inclusive politics. For me, in these sorts of matters, Britannia rules the waves ahead of any other country in the world.
Asking if Jews would be safe in Pakistan is irrelevant to what is being discussed.
The USA aspires to be the most advanced, principled and civilised country in the world. And in many instances in history, it has proven this. The only topic that matters right now is can the USA extend all its values and principles to its Muslim citizens, like it does to its Christian, Jewish and Hindu citizens. If it can't, then the American experiment has a huge flaw.
Im proud to be British because despite some recent problems, British people are far more sophisticated and mature about inclusive politics. For me, in these sorts of matters, Britannia rules the waves ahead of any other country in the world.
Asking if Jews would be safe in Pakistan is irrelevant to what is being discussed.
As things stand the US has huge issues with personal freedom too, with the problem that personal freedom has been taken advantage of and now clashes with public safety, perhaps more than ever before.
The attacks in NY, London, Madrid and Bali have shattered the West's sense of security, and for all the educated arguments regarding the West's need to readress its stance on ME among other global issues it would have been foolish not to expect a reaction, justified or not.
I wonder how only one poster found it odd comparing this reaction to almost two millenia of antisemitism.
The attacks in NY, London, Madrid and Bali have shattered the West's sense of security, and for all the educated arguments regarding the West's need to readress its stance on ME among other global issues it would have been foolish not to expect a reaction, justified or not.
I wonder how only one poster found it odd comparing this reaction to almost two millenia of antisemitism.
I never said Pakistan or Iran were better than USA for foreigners.
USA are an occupying force in neighbouring Afghanistan and killing Pakistanis with drone attacks. US citizens were safe prior to these events. There's always been a Jewish presence in Iran.
The difference is USA and Israel are disliked for it's foreign policies not for their ethnicity or religion. A difference I would say.
what a load of bollocks, the Hindu citizens don't have any added advantage as compared to the Muslims
of course they do. For one, they dont get stopped at airports because of what they are called. Profiling is abit more sophisticated these days.
Likewise, India and Hindu mysticism is very vogue in places like NYC, LA and the Internet valley. Last, there is no problems with Hindu temples that I am aware of in the US. Even the Sikhs have now thankfully educated the yanks that they are not Afghani's!
BTW: I am a big fan of the Hindu religion, when I lived in India I observed it very closely and found it fascinating and learnt alot from it.
Jews were discriminated against in the Muslim world before the creation of Israel and obviously its foreign policy, although we've been through this and there is no need to repeat the examples.
Going back to alleged islamophobia, I don't think many have issues with the religion or associated ethnicities. People fear Islam not for what the religion is, but for what some of its followers have inflicted on the West. We've been to threads where we debated what moderate Muslims should or should not do in light of the Islamist threat to the West and I think it was made quite clear that the real danger was not to the West but to its peaceful Muslims.
No but we are stopped at the airport because we look similar to muslims, and we do get mistaken time and time again for muslims again due to our looks, and we do get called "paki" should I go on?of course they do. For one, they dont get stopped at airports because of what they are called. Profiling is abit more sophisticated these days.
Likewise, India and Hindu mysticism is very vogue in places like NYC, LA and the Internet valley. Last, there is no problems with Hindu temples that I am aware of in the US. Even the Sikhs have now thankfully educated the yanks that they are not Afghani's!
BTW: I am a big fan of the Hindu religion, when I lived in India I observed it very closely and found it fascinating and learnt alot from it.
I do agree about the temple bit though, no issues in that respect
I do find it ironically very amusing that Indians get called a Paki ... I'd think its doubly insulting! Racism aside, it must drive you up the bend.
It used to, but not anymore, I just ignore it, the way I ignore the pronunciation of my name
you've been called that in the US? I don't think any american knows that slur. It is a british saying.
yup I have, the guy must have been a brit in that case
They were examples to a man who felt that Islamophobia is just a small/recent thing and just a spate of cases rather than a problem. No it doesn't represent America but it goes to show that along with the Church that want to burn Qu'rans, there are more than just 'a few people who feel like this'.
Of course it's more than a few people, just watch all the protest videos to get an idea about the folk protesting. Let's not forget that 70% of Americans are opposed to this community centre...you think all of them do so because they think its just 'insenstitive', to me it seems a lot of these people made their minds up before hearing the facts..i.e. it's not a mosque, and its not at ground zero.
Also remember that a fifth of Americans believe Obama to be a Muslim..as if it were a wretched thing.
Also remember that a fifth of Americans believe Obama to be a Muslim..as if it were a wretched thing.
On reflection USA's constitution is fair and possibly the best around. However, I again repeat the media is feeding the frenzy by giving platform to bigots on all sides.
I won't derail the thread
Why do you think the Jews suffered or are suffering anti semitism in Europe - is it because what some of it's followers have inflicted on the West? Let's face it, even if we live a perfect life racists and bigots will find faults due to our differences and various other factors.
Admittedly Muslims have caused some horrendous atrocities (9/11, Madrid, 7/7 and Bali to name a few) However, evidence suggests the West likewise have not been angels and have inflicted a lot worse on Muslim lands. Let's be fair, Muslims don't have have a monopoly on evil.
This is a point I wish was raised when people speak on these subjects, as you said Muslims don't have have a monopoly on evil.
Someone just posted this on a rap forum I post on so clearly it is something being picked up elsewhere by other people
There are a few people hating anything you could possibly imagine in the US. However, posting images of some feckwits wehn the Ground Zero debate is going on and calling it a phenomenon which is "the new antisemitism" is ignorant.
Then you try to figure out how many Muslims believe that the Iraq war was down to this Neo-Con Jewish mob and you reach even higher figures.
Currently antisemitic incidents in Western Europe are mainly a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and carried out by Muslims. The situation is different in Eastern Europe where traditional antisemitism still prevails to a larger extent.
But this wasn't the claim, was it? People in the West fear Muslims even though the atrocities were carried out by only a few. I think that many Muslims accept airport profiling as a necessity (if I recall correctly from an older thread). What we see on the streets and perhaps in the media is regrettable but perhaps inevitable profiling in people's minds. One which is driven by fear and distrust.
To be fair Sults, I consider those feckers to be murderers, who happen to be muslims only or Tim McVeigh who happens to be catholic.
To be fair it's not just Muslims who believe that, and at least this theory makes political sense even if it may seem absurd. The Obama muslim accusations are a bit silly on the other hand....not just because he simply isnt a Muslim, but more the fact people seem to label it as an evil trait if he was.
Dr Dwayne has told me you can be quite TIC with your responses so I will put it down to that but I will request that you choose your words more carefully. I am far from ignorant firstly and having read back on all of my posts when did I say it was the new anti-Semitism?
I simply said yes it is a problem and showed examples, the picture & video I posted showed that there are people that are anti-Islam/Islamophibic in response to a person who said it was just a small minority.
I did not attribute the phrase to you. check the title of the thread to better see where I come from.
I'm also not sure the picture or video (admittedly I only watched the first 2 mins) suggest that islamophobs are anything other than a minority in the US.
It is not just US Christians who think Obama's Muslim background affected his approach to US relations with the Muslim world. Even though his stance was far from making political sense, the theory is far from absurd.
And it is quite clear to me that not only Muslims think that influential Jews pull the superpower strings as part of a Jewsih conspiracy to control the world. Muslims only embraced an already well-established theory.
It's absurd to suggest his Muslim background constitutes his foreign policy. He's backed Israel even through war-crime allegations and has pledged thousands more troop to Afghanistan...hardly a 'Muslim move' that.
You talk as if it's a ridiculous theory. It might be completely bollocks but are you telling me Israel isn't better off now that Iraq is crippled and tamed by the US? And do you honestly blame the Islamic world for believing such a thing when they watch the US blindly support Israeli atrocities with bemusement?
The video simply stated that other people are concerned with the issue too. So much so that they conducted a study on TV programme on a major TV network in the States on it..
He has a point.
Anyways, organized religion is just annoying. It has its benefits, for example the compasion and community it can help foster. Mostly though, I find it bizzarre to spend your life influenced by teachings people made centuries ago.
The US backs Israel wether Obama is in office or not. It may do so to a larger extent when their army is no longer in Iraq. And the war-crimes allegations were daft, so little wonder the Yanks didn't want to know about them.
As for "Muslim moves", the Cairo speech and bowing to the Saudi King fall right in that category, don't you think?
Israel won't be better of with an Iraq under Iranian influence providing a bridge between Iran, Syria and Lebanon, and the Yanks had been advised accordingly prior to the war.
And I only blame the "Islamic world" for making up "Israeli atrocities" while being blind to the fact that the "Islamic world" is responsible for more innocent Muslims' deaths than anyone else. And that includes the US and UK combined.
The scenes are ugly, no question about that, but you'll find morons like those in the report everywhere in the world if you only bothered looking. There are people boycotting Jews, Jews boycotting Arabs, Jews discriminating against other Jews and there you have Belfast, the Balkans and so on...
The West and the Muslim world have been in conflict for a while now. Nothing in this conflict even remotely resembles the centuries-long discrimination of Jews.
So what?
That comparison was kind of the point of the thread was it not?
Thread. Title. OP. Carrick.
Still don't see the point your making